[Next project] John Gay - The Beggar’s Opera
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Robin Whittleton
Jun 25, 2026, 8:55:02 AMJun 25
to Standard Ebooks
A slightly trickier one this time around, going to try my hand at a 1700s opera: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beggar%27s_Opera.
There’s a nice edition at https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/25063, which appears to be a transcription of https://archive.org/details/beggarsopera1921gayj. The edition seems to have been done for a production by Claud Lovat Fraser and he’s illustrated it and written an introduction. I think we can drop that, and also the ”Appreciation” that precedes those talking about CLF by a friend after his death.
Being an opera the music is important, and there are engraved pages throughout. The thoughtful PG editor has provided these in PDF, but also thoughtfully as MIDI files which I guess MuseScore can ingest. So I’ll use those as the basis of new engravings.
Beyond that it doesn’t look that complicated, just the usual 3-act ~21k word play with some song markup.
Suggested artwork would be this contemporary painting from Hogarth, CC0 from the Yale Centre for British Art: https://standardebooks.org/artworks/william-hogarth/the-beggars-opera. Crop to be tweaked after proofing as not that many of the characters fit on the screen at once.
Alex Cabal
Jun 25, 2026, 11:40:17 AMJun 25
to standar...@googlegroups.com
OK, send a repo link please!
On 6/25/26 7:54 AM, Robin Whittleton wrote:
> A slightly trickier one this time around, going to try my hand at a
> 1700s opera: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beggar%27s_Opera
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beggar%27s_Opera>.
> <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/25063>, which appears to be a
> transcription of https://archive.org/details/beggarsopera1921gayj
> <https://archive.org/details/beggarsopera1921gayj>. The edition seems to
> have been done for a production by Claud Lovat Fraser <https://
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claud_Lovat_Fraser> and he’s illustrated it and
> artworks/william-hogarth/the-beggars-opera>. Crop to be tweaked after
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> standardebooks/2C47110F-35F3-4D11-A825-6097D25CD952%40reala.net
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/2C47110F-35F3-4D11-
> A825-6097D25CD952%40reala.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
On 6/25/26 7:54 AM, Robin Whittleton wrote:
> A slightly trickier one this time around, going to try my hand at a
> 1700s opera: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beggar%27s_Opera
> <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/25063>, which appears to be a
> transcription of https://archive.org/details/beggarsopera1921gayj
> <https://archive.org/details/beggarsopera1921gayj>. The edition seems to
> have been done for a production by Claud Lovat Fraser <https://
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claud_Lovat_Fraser> and he’s illustrated it and
> written an introduction. I think we can drop that, and also the
> ”Appreciation” that precedes those talking about CLF by a friend after
> his death.
>
> Being an opera the music is important, and there are engraved pages
> throughout. The thoughtful PG editor has provided these in PDF, but also
> thoughtfully as MIDI files which I guess MuseScore can ingest. So I’ll
> use those as the basis of new engravings.
>
> Beyond that it doesn’t look that complicated, just the usual 3-act ~21k
> word play with some song markup.
>
> Suggested artwork would be this contemporary painting from Hogarth, CC0
> from the Yale Centre for British Art: https://standardebooks.org/
> artworks/william-hogarth/the-beggars-opera <https://standardebooks.org/
> ”Appreciation” that precedes those talking about CLF by a friend after
> his death.
>
> Being an opera the music is important, and there are engraved pages
> throughout. The thoughtful PG editor has provided these in PDF, but also
> thoughtfully as MIDI files which I guess MuseScore can ingest. So I’ll
> use those as the basis of new engravings.
>
> Beyond that it doesn’t look that complicated, just the usual 3-act ~21k
> word play with some song markup.
>
> Suggested artwork would be this contemporary painting from Hogarth, CC0
> from the Yale Centre for British Art: https://standardebooks.org/
> artworks/william-hogarth/the-beggars-opera>. Crop to be tweaked after
> proofing as not that many of the characters fit on the screen at once.
>
>
> Screenshot 2026-06-25 at 14.53.06 Medium.jpeg
>
> --
>
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/2C47110F-35F3-4D11-
> A825-6097D25CD952%40reala.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
Robin Whittleton
Jun 25, 2026, 12:50:09 PMJun 25
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Alex Cabal
Jun 25, 2026, 12:59:12 PMJun 25
to standar...@googlegroups.com
OK, Weijia will manage with David reviewing.
On 6/25/26 11:49 AM, Robin Whittleton wrote:
> https://github.com/robinwhittleton/john-gay_the-beggars-opera <https://
> github.com/robinwhittleton/john-gay_the-beggars-opera>
> standardebooks/D3FF5638-2C72-45D9-97AB-448D4F6A5025%40reala.net
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
> D3FF5638-2C72-45D9-97AB-448D4F6A5025%40reala.net?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
On 6/25/26 11:49 AM, Robin Whittleton wrote:
> https://github.com/robinwhittleton/john-gay_the-beggars-opera <https://
> github.com/robinwhittleton/john-gay_the-beggars-opera>
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
> D3FF5638-2C72-45D9-97AB-448D4F6A5025%40reala.net?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
Weijia Cheng
Jun 25, 2026, 1:29:55 PMJun 25
to Standard Ebooks
Ok, noted. I approved the cover art.
Robin Whittleton
Jul 19, 2026, 6:37:13 AM (3 days ago) Jul 19
to standar...@googlegroups.com
There are 68 scores in here. To make it more accessible to blind / low vision readers, I’d like to suggest including music files, played through an audio tag. This isn’t something we’ve done before, but I’m happy to make any toolkit changes necessary to enable this.
Things that need to be done:
- Render out the Musescore files as MP3: that should be maximum compatibility and out of patent protection at this point. I assume that a viol would be the best instrument for this but I’m not sure if Musescore has support; fallback would be a violin or viola.
- Include the files in an audio directory and link them below the scores with <audio controls> elements.
- Work out any additional metadata we might need to include.
- Update lint to check that additional metadata.
- Update build to make sure this works. No idea what Kobo or Kindle support there is: we I guess might strip the files for those builds?
- Maybe update the manual / how to for scores to include information on this process.
This would obviously increase the filesze, but not much more than other productions. A couple of sample mp3’s I tested came in at 500-600KB, so it might add 35-40MB to the production, which compares reasonably to Whymper’s Scrambles in the Alps at 65MB for the ePub due to the photography. I could potentially drop the file size by investigating alternative codecs (MP4?), higher bitrate compression, or even just speeding up the scores a bit.
If this goes well then I could retrofit this into other music productions, but that’s a future step.
Thoughts?
-Robin
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/ea2c3de2-1a47-46e8-9fe9-1e2588004c3dn%40googlegroups.com.
Weijia Cheng
Jul 19, 2026, 6:50:02 AM (3 days ago) Jul 19
to Standard Ebooks
This seems too much above my paygrade so I will wait for Alex's answer!
Alex Cabal
Jul 20, 2026, 2:34:25 PM (2 days ago) Jul 20
to standar...@googlegroups.com
I can see where you're coming from but I'm not sure if I'm crazy about
the idea.
Should books include playable music? Which ereader, that's not merely a
major web browser rendering a local XHTML file, could even actually do that?
Then, the producers - MuseScore/MusicXML is convenient for producers
because it can get most of the *visual* appearance of a score done in an
easy WYSIWYG way, and the producer doesn't really have to know anything
about music. The big benefit is that we don't need a pixel-perfect
MusicXML file, because we can export an SVG that's close enough, and
make adjustments to the SVG to match print. (That's what I do, since I
don't know anything about music and I know less about MuseScore.)
But if now we expect the music to *actually play*, then we must require
that the MusicXML score be *actually accurate*, and that means now I,
the producer, have to know how to write music and how to use the
MuseScore interface to get a pixel perfect score. That's a big ask.
And then, how music is scored/transcribed has changed over the
centuries, and there are lots of individual/local quirks and variants.
How does a producer reconcile those differences with something that's
now meant to be actually played in a modern system? How can a producer
who doesn't know how to write music, be sure that some older or quirky
score was transcribed accurately in MuseScore and plays accurately?
And, if we're outputting MP3s, then the copyright status of the sounds
used to play the music is also an open question. Is that US public
domain? I don't know. Using MIDI instead might be an answer to that.
I think this is too much *for now* but if you want to do research on
these points then we can continue to discuss it.
On 7/19/26 5:36 AM, Robin Whittleton wrote:
> There are 68 scores in here. To make it more accessible to blind / low
> vision readers, I’d like to suggest including music files, played
> through an audio tag. This isn’t something we’ve done before, but I’m
> happy to make any toolkit changes necessary to enable this.
>
> Things that need to be done:
>
> * Render out the Musescore files as MP3: that should be maximum
> * Update lint to check that additional metadata.
> * Update build to make sure this works. No idea what Kobo or Kindle
>> > github.com/robinwhittleton/john-gay_the-beggars-opera <http://
>> >>> artworks/william-hogarth/the-beggars-opera <https://
>> >>> standardebooks.org/ <http://standardebooks.org/> artworks/
>> >>> standardebooks/2C47110F-35F3-4D11-
>> A825-6097D25CD952%40reala.net <http://40reala.net/>
>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>> standardebooks/2C47110F-35F3-4D11- <https://groups.google.com/d/
>> msgid/standardebooks/2C47110F-35F3-4D11->
>> >>> A825-6097D25CD952%40reala.net?
>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40reala.net/?
>> >> standardebooks/620905d5-ec83-4326-
>> b07c-721080ada922%40standardebooks.org
>> <http://40standardebooks.org/>.
>> > standardebooks/D3FF5638-2C72-45D9-97AB-448D4F6A5025%40reala.net
>> <http://40reala.net/>
>> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/ <https://
>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/>
>> > D3FF5638-2C72-45D9-97AB-448D4F6A5025%40reala.net
>> <http://40reala.net/>?
>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
>> ea2c3de2-1a47-46e8-9fe9-1e2588004c3dn%40googlegroups.com?
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/77A6B5C8-9865-4F25-
> B1A4-BA66EA40ED10%40reala.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
the idea.
Should books include playable music? Which ereader, that's not merely a
major web browser rendering a local XHTML file, could even actually do that?
Then, the producers - MuseScore/MusicXML is convenient for producers
because it can get most of the *visual* appearance of a score done in an
easy WYSIWYG way, and the producer doesn't really have to know anything
about music. The big benefit is that we don't need a pixel-perfect
MusicXML file, because we can export an SVG that's close enough, and
make adjustments to the SVG to match print. (That's what I do, since I
don't know anything about music and I know less about MuseScore.)
But if now we expect the music to *actually play*, then we must require
that the MusicXML score be *actually accurate*, and that means now I,
the producer, have to know how to write music and how to use the
MuseScore interface to get a pixel perfect score. That's a big ask.
And then, how music is scored/transcribed has changed over the
centuries, and there are lots of individual/local quirks and variants.
How does a producer reconcile those differences with something that's
now meant to be actually played in a modern system? How can a producer
who doesn't know how to write music, be sure that some older or quirky
score was transcribed accurately in MuseScore and plays accurately?
And, if we're outputting MP3s, then the copyright status of the sounds
used to play the music is also an open question. Is that US public
domain? I don't know. Using MIDI instead might be an answer to that.
I think this is too much *for now* but if you want to do research on
these points then we can continue to discuss it.
On 7/19/26 5:36 AM, Robin Whittleton wrote:
> There are 68 scores in here. To make it more accessible to blind / low
> vision readers, I’d like to suggest including music files, played
> through an audio tag. This isn’t something we’ve done before, but I’m
> happy to make any toolkit changes necessary to enable this.
>
> Things that need to be done:
>
> compatibility and out of patent protection at this point. I assume
> that a viol would be the best instrument for this but I’m not sure
> if Musescore has support; fallback would be a violin or viola.
> * Include the files in an audio directory and link them below the
> that a viol would be the best instrument for this but I’m not sure
> if Musescore has support; fallback would be a violin or viola.
> scores with <audio controls> elements.
> * Work out any additional metadata we might need to include.
> * Update lint to check that additional metadata.
> * Update build to make sure this works. No idea what Kobo or Kindle
> support there is: we I guess might strip the files for those builds?
> * Maybe update the manual / how to for scores to include information
> on this process.
>
>
> This would obviously increase the filesze, but not much more than other
> productions. A couple of sample mp3’s I tested came in at 500-600KB, so
> it might add 35-40MB to the production, which compares reasonably to
> Whymper’s /Scrambles in the Alps/ at 65MB for the ePub due to the
>
>
> This would obviously increase the filesze, but not much more than other
> productions. A couple of sample mp3’s I tested came in at 500-600KB, so
> it might add 35-40MB to the production, which compares reasonably to
> photography. I could potentially drop the file size by investigating
> alternative codecs (MP4?), higher bitrate compression, or even just
> speeding up the scores a bit.
>
> If this goes well then I could retrofit this into other music
> productions, but that’s a future step.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> -Robin
>
>> On 25 Jun 2026, at 19:29, 'Weijia Cheng' via Standard Ebooks
>> <standar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> Ok, noted. I approved the cover art.
>>
>> On Thursday, June 25, 2026 at 12:59:12 PM UTC-4 Alex Cabal wrote:
>>
>> OK, Weijia will manage with David reviewing.
>>
>> On 6/25/26 11:49 AM, Robin Whittleton wrote:
>> > https://github.com/robinwhittleton/john-gay_the-beggars-opera
>> <https://github.com/robinwhittleton/john-gay_the-beggars-opera>
>> <https://
> alternative codecs (MP4?), higher bitrate compression, or even just
> speeding up the scores a bit.
>
> If this goes well then I could retrofit this into other music
> productions, but that’s a future step.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> -Robin
>
>> On 25 Jun 2026, at 19:29, 'Weijia Cheng' via Standard Ebooks
>> <standar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> Ok, noted. I approved the cover art.
>>
>> On Thursday, June 25, 2026 at 12:59:12 PM UTC-4 Alex Cabal wrote:
>>
>> OK, Weijia will manage with David reviewing.
>>
>> On 6/25/26 11:49 AM, Robin Whittleton wrote:
>> > https://github.com/robinwhittleton/john-gay_the-beggars-opera
>> <https://github.com/robinwhittleton/john-gay_the-beggars-opera>
>> > github.com/robinwhittleton/john-gay_the-beggars-opera <http://
>> github.com/robinwhittleton/john-gay_the-beggars-opera>>
>> >
>> >
>> >> On 25 Jun 2026, at 17:40, 'Alex Cabal' via Standard Ebooks
>> >> <standar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> OK, send a repo link please!
>> >>
>> >> On 6/25/26 7:54 AM, Robin Whittleton wrote:
>> >>> A slightly trickier one this time around, going to try my hand
>> at a
>> >>> 1700s opera: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
>> The_Beggar%27s_Opera <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
>> The_Beggar%27s_Opera>
>> >>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beggar%27s_Opera <https://
>> >
>> >
>> >> On 25 Jun 2026, at 17:40, 'Alex Cabal' via Standard Ebooks
>> >> <standar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> OK, send a repo link please!
>> >>
>> >> On 6/25/26 7:54 AM, Robin Whittleton wrote:
>> >>> A slightly trickier one this time around, going to try my hand
>> at a
>> >>> 1700s opera: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
>> The_Beggar%27s_Opera <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
>> The_Beggar%27s_Opera>
>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beggar%27s_Opera>>.
>> >>> There’s a nice edition at https://www.gutenberg.org/
>> ebooks/25063 <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/25063>
>> >>> <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/25063 <https://
>> >>> There’s a nice edition at https://www.gutenberg.org/
>> ebooks/25063 <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/25063>
>> www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/25063>>, which appears to be a
>> >>> transcription of https://archive.org/details/
>> beggarsopera1921gayj <https://archive.org/details/
>> beggarsopera1921gayj>
>> >>> <https://archive.org/details/beggarsopera1921gayj <https://
>> >>> transcription of https://archive.org/details/
>> beggarsopera1921gayj <https://archive.org/details/
>> beggarsopera1921gayj>
>> archive.org/details/beggarsopera1921gayj>>. The edition seems
>> >>> to have been done for a production by Claud Lovat Fraser
>> <https://
>> >>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claud_Lovat_Fraser <http://
>> >>> to have been done for a production by Claud Lovat Fraser
>> <https://
>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claud_Lovat_Fraser>> and he’s illustrated it
>> and
>> >>> written an introduction. I think we can drop that, and also the
>> >>> ”Appreciation” that precedes those talking about CLF by a friend
>> >>> after his death.
>> >>> Being an opera the music is important, and there are engraved
>> pages
>> >>> throughout. The thoughtful PG editor has provided these in
>> PDF, but
>> >>> also thoughtfully as MIDI files which I guess MuseScore can
>> ingest.
>> >>> So I’ll use those as the basis of new engravings.
>> >>> Beyond that it doesn’t look that complicated, just the usual
>> 3-act
>> >>> ~21k word play with some song markup.
>> >>> Suggested artwork would be this contemporary painting from
>> Hogarth,
>> >>> CC0 from the Yale Centre for British Art: https://
>> standardebooks.org/ <https://standardebooks.org/>
>> and
>> >>> written an introduction. I think we can drop that, and also the
>> >>> ”Appreciation” that precedes those talking about CLF by a friend
>> >>> after his death.
>> >>> Being an opera the music is important, and there are engraved
>> pages
>> >>> throughout. The thoughtful PG editor has provided these in
>> PDF, but
>> >>> also thoughtfully as MIDI files which I guess MuseScore can
>> ingest.
>> >>> So I’ll use those as the basis of new engravings.
>> >>> Beyond that it doesn’t look that complicated, just the usual
>> 3-act
>> >>> ~21k word play with some song markup.
>> >>> Suggested artwork would be this contemporary painting from
>> Hogarth,
>> >>> CC0 from the Yale Centre for British Art: https://
>> >>> artworks/william-hogarth/the-beggars-opera <https://
>> >>> standardebooks.org/ <http://standardebooks.org/> artworks/
>> william-hogarth/the-beggars-opera>. Crop
>> >>> to be tweaked after proofing as not that many of the
>> characters fit
>> >>> on the screen at once.
>> >>> Screenshot 2026-06-25 at 14.53.06 Medium.jpeg
>> >>> --
>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>> Google
>> >>> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>> >>> send an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
>> >>> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
>> >>> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/
>> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
>> >>> to be tweaked after proofing as not that many of the
>> characters fit
>> >>> on the screen at once.
>> >>> Screenshot 2026-06-25 at 14.53.06 Medium.jpeg
>> >>> --
>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>> >>> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>> >>> send an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
>> >>> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
>> >>> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/
>> >>> standardebooks/2C47110F-35F3-4D11-
>> A825-6097D25CD952%40reala.net <http://40reala.net/>
>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>> standardebooks/2C47110F-35F3-4D11- <https://groups.google.com/d/
>> msgid/standardebooks/2C47110F-35F3-4D11->
>> >>> A825-6097D25CD952%40reala.net?
>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40reala.net/?
>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>> >>
>> >> --
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>> b07c-721080ada922%40standardebooks.org
>> <http://40standardebooks.org/>.
>> >
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>> standardebooks/
>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
>> ea2c3de2-1a47-46e8-9fe9-1e2588004c3dn%40googlegroups.com?
>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>
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> standardebooks/77A6B5C8-9865-4F25-B1A4-BA66EA40ED10%40reala.net
> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/77A6B5C8-9865-4F25-
> B1A4-BA66EA40ED10%40reala.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
Robin Whittleton
Jul 21, 2026, 3:05:54 AM (yesterday) Jul 21
to standar...@googlegroups.com
Good questions!
- On ereaders: audio is part of the ePub spec. MP3, MP4 and Opus are in the core media types, and both packaged and external audio resources played through an <audio> element are documented. Obviously reading on a phone or a computer will have sound, and some ereaders like Boox Palma have built in speakers. Most others (including Kindle, Kobo, and Nook) have bluetooth, and if you’re blind and using them as a screen reading device you should have access to the audio though that’d need to be tested. It’s also a legal requirement in the EU that all new e-readers (as of June last year) support text-to-speech (see EAA annex 1, section 1, chapter 2 o iI) which assumes some audio output ability.
- On Musescore: that’s a fair point. I’ve always tried to get my scores to be exact in Musescore apart from the page margins, the only SVG change I do is to merge everything, convert it to a single path, then resize the page to fit. It is a big ask, but we don’t have to require it from every producer. This could be a later retrofit option for a volunteer if the original producer isn’t able to do it on day one.
- On older scores: yes, definitely a problem, but I refer back to the previous answer. To posit a similar situation, I can next to no Greek, so if a transcription isn’t 100% obvious I’ll ask on the list for help.
- On sound copyright: that’s a really good question, and I had to go digging. It looks like, at the moment, the default MuseScore soundfont is MIT licensed: https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/blob/cfcea3dbd7b238299f2b492d01016140885f6979/share/sound/MS%20Basic_License.md. Obviously that’s not good enough for us. There was some discussion a few years ago about about building a CC0 licensed soundfont for MuseScore but that doesn’t seem to have gone anywhere yet that I can find at least.
Summary then: I don’t think anything here is a blocker, apart from the lack of CC0 soundfonts, which most definitely is a blocker. Let’s park this and revisit if a decent CC0 soundfont for MuseScore ever becomes a thing.
-Robin
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/ea9fd4a9-7b55-411c-8304-cbd43089e281%40standardebooks.org.
Alex Cabal
Jul 21, 2026, 11:12:59 AM (22 hours ago) Jul 21
to standar...@googlegroups.com
OK, thanks for the research.
On ereaders I would push back that even though it's in the spec, and
some ereaders can do text-to-speech, that doesn't mean those ereaders
support the <audio> element or its playback controls. I don't want to
ask producers to put in a huge effort for something that has no real
application today, because that's demoralizing. (By contrast, SVGs and
MathML are a big effort but they *do* have real support in many
ereaders, and even some major ones like iBooks and Kobo, even if not the
majority.)
I would also push back on your Greek analogy because it's not a huge ask
to just look carefully at a character table and copy whatever unicode
looks right - that's all that's required 90% of the time and you don't
need to speak Greek to do that.
I don't think we can compare that to deciphering the *meaning* of a
quirky score and figuring out how to translate that to an *accurate,
playable* result, using highly specialized software that almost nobody
here is intimately familiar with. That requires knowledge of music
reading, historical scoring, *and* specialized software. The comparison
here is *speaking* Greek.
Copyright issues aside, I don't think any of this is *impossible*, just
extremely impractical, especially without (AFAIK) anybody on the list
with this special expertise who we can ask when questions arise.
On 7/21/26 2:05 AM, Robin Whittleton wrote:
> Good questions!
>
> * *On ereaders*: audio is part of the ePub spec. MP3, MP4 and Opus are
> in the core media types <https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-33/#sec-core-
> media-types>, and both packaged and external audio resources played
> through an <audio> element are documented <https://www.w3.org/TR/
> epub-33/#sec-resource-locations>. Obviously reading on a phone or a
> dir/2019/882/oj?locale=en#anx_I>) which assumes some audio output
> ability.
> * *On Musescore*: that’s a fair point. I’ve always tried to get my
> cfcea3dbd7b238299f2b492d01016140885f6979/share/sound/
> MS%20Basic_License.md>. Obviously that’s not good enough for us.
> There was some discussion a few years ago <https://musescore.org/en/
> node/305408#comment-1004012> about about building a CC0 licensed
>>>> github.com/robinwhittleton/john-gay_the-beggars-opera><http://
>>>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/>
>>>> The_Beggar%27s_Opera <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ <https://
>>>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/>
>>>> The_Beggar%27s_Opera>
>>>> >>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beggar%27s_Opera <https://
>>>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beggar%27s_Opera><https://
>>>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beggar%27s_Opera <http://en.wikipedia.org/
>>>> wiki/The_Beggar%27s_Opera>>>.
>>>> >>> There’s a nice edition athttps://www.gutenberg.org/ <https://
>>>> www.gutenberg.org/>
>>>> ebooks/25063 <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/25063 <https://
>>>> archive.org/details/>
>>>> beggarsopera1921gayj <https://archive.org/details/ <https://
>>>> archive.org/details/>
>>>> beggarsopera1921gayj>
>>>> >>> <https://archive.org/details/beggarsopera1921gayj <https://
>>>> archive.org/details/beggarsopera1921gayj><https://
>>>> archive.org/details/beggarsopera1921gayj <http://archive.org/
>>>> googlegroups.com/>
>>>> >>> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com <http://
>>>> googlegroups.com/>>.
>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>
>>>> >>> standardebooks/2C47110F-35F3-4D11-
>>>> A825-6097D25CD952%40reala.net <http://40reala.net/
>>>> ><http://40reala.net/ <http://40reala.net/>>
>>>> standardebooks/2C47110F-35F3-4D11- <https://groups.google.com/d/
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/>
>>>> msgid/standardebooks/2C47110F-35F3-4D11->
>>>> >>> A825-6097D25CD952%40reala.net <http://40reala.net/>?
>>>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40reala.net/?
>>>> googlegroups.com/>.
>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>
>>>> >> standardebooks/620905d5-ec83-4326-
>>>> b07c-721080ada922%40standardebooks.org <http://40standardebooks.org/>
>>>> <http://40standardebooks.org/ <http://40standardebooks.org/>>.
>>>> googlegroups.com/>
>>>> > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com <http://
>>>> googlegroups.com/>>.
>>>> > standardebooks/D3FF5638-2C72-45D9-97AB-448D4F6A5025%40reala.net
>>>> <http://40reala.net/>
>>>> <http://40reala.net/ <http://40reala.net/>>
>>>> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/ <https://
>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/><https://
>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/ <http://groups.google.com/
>>>> d/msgid/standardebooks/>>
>>>> > D3FF5638-2C72-45D9-97AB-448D4F6A5025%40reala.net
>>>> <http://40reala.net/>
>>>> <http://40reala.net/ <http://40reala.net/>>?
>>>> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com><mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>>.
>>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>>>> standardebooks/ <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
>>>> >ea2c3de2-1a47-46e8-9fe9-1e2588004c3dn%40googlegroups.com
>>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>? utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>>> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com><mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>>.
>>> <http://40reala.net/><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>>> standardebooks/77A6B5C8-9865-4F25- B1A4-BA66EA40ED10%40reala.net?
>>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/
>>> msgid/standardebooks/77A6B5C8-9865-4F25-%20B1A4-
>>> BA66EA40ED10%40reala.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>> cbd43089e281%40standardebooks.org <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>> standardebooks/ea9fd4a9-7b55-411c-8304-cbd43089e281%40standardebooks.org>.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/0BC3AC55-
> D91E-470E-970A-EEBFC1814F64%40reala.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
On ereaders I would push back that even though it's in the spec, and
some ereaders can do text-to-speech, that doesn't mean those ereaders
support the <audio> element or its playback controls. I don't want to
ask producers to put in a huge effort for something that has no real
application today, because that's demoralizing. (By contrast, SVGs and
MathML are a big effort but they *do* have real support in many
ereaders, and even some major ones like iBooks and Kobo, even if not the
majority.)
I would also push back on your Greek analogy because it's not a huge ask
to just look carefully at a character table and copy whatever unicode
looks right - that's all that's required 90% of the time and you don't
need to speak Greek to do that.
I don't think we can compare that to deciphering the *meaning* of a
quirky score and figuring out how to translate that to an *accurate,
playable* result, using highly specialized software that almost nobody
here is intimately familiar with. That requires knowledge of music
reading, historical scoring, *and* specialized software. The comparison
here is *speaking* Greek.
Copyright issues aside, I don't think any of this is *impossible*, just
extremely impractical, especially without (AFAIK) anybody on the list
with this special expertise who we can ask when questions arise.
On 7/21/26 2:05 AM, Robin Whittleton wrote:
> Good questions!
>
> * *On ereaders*: audio is part of the ePub spec. MP3, MP4 and Opus are
> in the core media types <https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-33/#sec-core-
> media-types>, and both packaged and external audio resources played
> through an <audio> element are documented <https://www.w3.org/TR/
> epub-33/#sec-resource-locations>. Obviously reading on a phone or a
> computer will have sound, and some ereaders like Boox Palma have
> built in speakers. Most others (including Kindle, Kobo, and Nook)
> have bluetooth, and if you’re blind and using them as a screen
> reading device you should have access to the audio though that’d
> need to be tested. It’s also a legal requirement in the EU that all
> new e-readers (as of June last year) support text-to-speech (see EAA
> annex 1, section 1, chapter 2 o iI <https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/
> built in speakers. Most others (including Kindle, Kobo, and Nook)
> have bluetooth, and if you’re blind and using them as a screen
> reading device you should have access to the audio though that’d
> need to be tested. It’s also a legal requirement in the EU that all
> new e-readers (as of June last year) support text-to-speech (see EAA
> dir/2019/882/oj?locale=en#anx_I>) which assumes some audio output
> ability.
> * *On Musescore*: that’s a fair point. I’ve always tried to get my
> scores to be exact in Musescore apart from the page margins, the
> only SVG change I do is to merge everything, convert it to a single
> path, then resize the page to fit. It is a big ask, but we don’t
> have to require it from every producer. This could be a later
> retrofit option for a volunteer if the original producer isn’t able
> to do it on day one.
> * *On older scores*: yes, definitely a problem, but I refer back to
> only SVG change I do is to merge everything, convert it to a single
> path, then resize the page to fit. It is a big ask, but we don’t
> have to require it from every producer. This could be a later
> retrofit option for a volunteer if the original producer isn’t able
> to do it on day one.
> the previous answer. To posit a similar situation, I can next to no
> Greek, so if a transcription isn’t 100% obvious I’ll ask on the list
> for help.
> * *On sound copyright*: that’s a /really/ good question, and I had to
> Greek, so if a transcription isn’t 100% obvious I’ll ask on the list
> for help.
> go digging. It looks like, at the moment, the default MuseScore
> soundfont is MIT licensed: https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/
> blob/cfcea3dbd7b238299f2b492d01016140885f6979/share/sound/
> MS%20Basic_License.md <https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/blob/
> soundfont is MIT licensed: https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/
> blob/cfcea3dbd7b238299f2b492d01016140885f6979/share/sound/
> cfcea3dbd7b238299f2b492d01016140885f6979/share/sound/
> MS%20Basic_License.md>. Obviously that’s not good enough for us.
> There was some discussion a few years ago <https://musescore.org/en/
> node/305408#comment-1004012> about about building a CC0 licensed
> soundfont for MuseScore but that doesn’t seem to have gone anywhere
> yet that I can find at least.
>
>
> Summary then: I don’t think anything here is a blocker, apart from the
> lack of CC0 soundfonts, which /most definitely is a blocker/. Let’s park
> yet that I can find at least.
>
>
> Summary then: I don’t think anything here is a blocker, apart from the
>>>> github.com/robinwhittleton/john-gay_the-beggars-opera <http://
>>>> github.com/robinwhittleton/john-gay_the-beggars-opera>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> On 25 Jun 2026, at 17:40, 'Alex Cabal' via Standard Ebooks
>>>> github.com/robinwhittleton/john-gay_the-beggars-opera>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> On 25 Jun 2026, at 17:40, 'Alex Cabal' via Standard Ebooks
>>>> >> <standar...@googlegroups.com <http://googlegroups.com/>> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> OK, send a repo link please!
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 6/25/26 7:54 AM, Robin Whittleton wrote:
>>>> >>> A slightly trickier one this time around, going to try my hand
>>>> at a
>>>> >>> 1700s opera:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ <https://
>>>> >>
>>>> >> OK, send a repo link please!
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 6/25/26 7:54 AM, Robin Whittleton wrote:
>>>> >>> A slightly trickier one this time around, going to try my hand
>>>> at a
>>>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/>
>>>> The_Beggar%27s_Opera <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ <https://
>>>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/>
>>>> The_Beggar%27s_Opera>
>>>> >>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beggar%27s_Opera <https://
>>>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beggar%27s_Opera><https://
>>>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beggar%27s_Opera <http://en.wikipedia.org/
>>>> wiki/The_Beggar%27s_Opera>>>.
>>>> >>> There’s a nice edition athttps://www.gutenberg.org/ <https://
>>>> www.gutenberg.org/>
>>>> ebooks/25063 <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/25063 <https://
>>>> www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/25063>>
>>>> >>> <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/25063 <https://
>>>> www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/25063><https://
>>>> www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/25063 <http://www.gutenberg.org/
>>>> >>> <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/25063 <https://
>>>> www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/25063><https://
>>>> ebooks/25063>>>, which appears to be a
>>>> >>> transcription ofhttps://archive.org/details/ <https://
>>>> archive.org/details/>
>>>> beggarsopera1921gayj <https://archive.org/details/ <https://
>>>> archive.org/details/>
>>>> beggarsopera1921gayj>
>>>> >>> <https://archive.org/details/beggarsopera1921gayj <https://
>>>> archive.org/details/beggarsopera1921gayj><https://
>>>> archive.org/details/beggarsopera1921gayj <http://archive.org/
>>>> details/beggarsopera1921gayj>>>. The edition seems
>>>> >>> to have been done for a production by Claud Lovat Fraser
>>>> <https://
>>>> >>>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claud_Lovat_Fraser <http://
>>>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claud_Lovat_Fraser><http://
>>>> >>> to have been done for a production by Claud Lovat Fraser
>>>> <https://
>>>> >>>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claud_Lovat_Fraser <http://
>>>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claud_Lovat_Fraser <http://en.wikipedia.org/
>>>> wiki/Claud_Lovat_Fraser>>> and he’s illustrated it
>>>> and
>>>> >>> written an introduction. I think we can drop that, and also the
>>>> >>> ”Appreciation” that precedes those talking about CLF by a friend
>>>> >>> after his death.
>>>> >>> Being an opera the music is important, and there are engraved
>>>> pages
>>>> >>> throughout. The thoughtful PG editor has provided these in
>>>> PDF, but
>>>> >>> also thoughtfully as MIDI files which I guess MuseScore can
>>>> ingest.
>>>> >>> So I’ll use those as the basis of new engravings.
>>>> >>> Beyond that it doesn’t look that complicated, just the usual
>>>> 3-act
>>>> >>> ~21k word play with some song markup.
>>>> >>> Suggested artwork would be this contemporary painting from
>>>> Hogarth,
>>>> >>> CC0 from the Yale Centre for British Art: https://
>>>> standardebooks.org/ <http://standardebooks.org/><https://
>>>> wiki/Claud_Lovat_Fraser>>> and he’s illustrated it
>>>> and
>>>> >>> written an introduction. I think we can drop that, and also the
>>>> >>> ”Appreciation” that precedes those talking about CLF by a friend
>>>> >>> after his death.
>>>> >>> Being an opera the music is important, and there are engraved
>>>> pages
>>>> >>> throughout. The thoughtful PG editor has provided these in
>>>> PDF, but
>>>> >>> also thoughtfully as MIDI files which I guess MuseScore can
>>>> ingest.
>>>> >>> So I’ll use those as the basis of new engravings.
>>>> >>> Beyond that it doesn’t look that complicated, just the usual
>>>> 3-act
>>>> >>> ~21k word play with some song markup.
>>>> >>> Suggested artwork would be this contemporary painting from
>>>> Hogarth,
>>>> >>> CC0 from the Yale Centre for British Art: https://
>>>> standardebooks.org/ <https://standardebooks.org/>>
>>>> >>> artworks/william-hogarth/the-beggars-opera <https://
>>>> >>>standardebooks.org/ <http://standardebooks.org/><http://
>>>> >>> artworks/william-hogarth/the-beggars-opera <https://
>>>> standardebooks.org/ <http://standardebooks.org/>> artworks/
>>>> william-hogarth/the-beggars-opera>. Crop
>>>> >>> to be tweaked after proofing as not that many of the
>>>> characters fit
>>>> >>> on the screen at once.
>>>> >>> Screenshot 2026-06-25 at 14.53.06 Medium.jpeg
>>>> >>> --
>>>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>> Google
>>>> >>> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
>>>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>> >>> send an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com <http://
>>>> william-hogarth/the-beggars-opera>. Crop
>>>> >>> to be tweaked after proofing as not that many of the
>>>> characters fit
>>>> >>> on the screen at once.
>>>> >>> Screenshot 2026-06-25 at 14.53.06 Medium.jpeg
>>>> >>> --
>>>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>> >>> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
>>>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>> googlegroups.com/>
>>>> >>> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com <http://
>>>> googlegroups.com/>>.
>>>> >>> To view this discussion visithttps://groups.google.com/d/
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/>
>>>> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/>
>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>
>>>> >>> standardebooks/2C47110F-35F3-4D11-
>>>> A825-6097D25CD952%40reala.net <http://40reala.net/
>>>> ><http://40reala.net/ <http://40reala.net/>>
>>>> standardebooks/2C47110F-35F3-4D11- <https://groups.google.com/d/
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/>
>>>> msgid/standardebooks/2C47110F-35F3-4D11->
>>>> >>> A825-6097D25CD952%40reala.net <http://40reala.net/>?
>>>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40reala.net/?
>>>> <http://40reala.net/?>
>>>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>>>> it, send
>>>> >> an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com <http://
>>>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> >> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
>>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>>>> it, send
>>>> googlegroups.com/>.
>>>> >> To view this discussion visithttps://groups.google.com/d/
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/>
>>>> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/>
>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>
>>>> >> standardebooks/620905d5-ec83-4326-
>>>> b07c-721080ada922%40standardebooks.org <http://40standardebooks.org/>
>>>> <http://40standardebooks.org/ <http://40standardebooks.org/>>.
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> > Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>>>> it, send
>>>> > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com <http://
>>>> > --
>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>>>> it, send
>>>> googlegroups.com/>
>>>> > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com <http://
>>>> googlegroups.com/>>.
>>>> > To view this discussion visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/
>>>> msgid/>>
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/
>>>> > standardebooks/D3FF5638-2C72-45D9-97AB-448D4F6A5025%40reala.net
>>>> <http://40reala.net/>
>>>> <http://40reala.net/ <http://40reala.net/>>
>>>> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/ <https://
>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/><https://
>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/ <http://groups.google.com/
>>>> d/msgid/standardebooks/>>
>>>> > D3FF5638-2C72-45D9-97AB-448D4F6A5025%40reala.net
>>>> <http://40reala.net/>
>>>> <http://40reala.net/ <http://40reala.net/>>?
>>>> > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>> send an email tostandardeboo...@googlegroups.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com><mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>>.
>>>> To view this discussion visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>standardebooks/
>>>> ea2c3de2-1a47-46e8-9fe9-1e2588004c3dn%40googlegroups.com
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>standardebooks/
>>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>>>> standardebooks/ <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
>>>> >ea2c3de2-1a47-46e8-9fe9-1e2588004c3dn%40googlegroups.com
>>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>? utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>> send an email tostandardeboo...@googlegroups.com
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>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>>> >standardebooks/77A6B5C8-9865-4F25-B1A4-BA66EA40ED10%40reala.net
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>>> <http://40reala.net/><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>>> standardebooks/77A6B5C8-9865-4F25- B1A4-BA66EA40ED10%40reala.net?
>>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/
>>> msgid/standardebooks/77A6B5C8-9865-4F25-%20B1A4-
>>> BA66EA40ED10%40reala.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
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>> standardebooks/ea9fd4a9-7b55-411c-8304-cbd43089e281%40standardebooks.org>.
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Alex Cabal
Jul 21, 2026, 11:26:00 AM (22 hours ago) Jul 21
to standar...@googlegroups.com
I would be much more amenable to this if we had, say, two permanent
contributors on the list who had this specialized knowledge, and who we
could assign this work to when it came up.
I.e. producer X would be working on an ebook that includes a score, and
instead of doing it themselves they send it to producer Y who reads
music and knows MuseScore, and who sends back the correct MusicXML file
to include in the ebook.
Two would be the minimum because people come and go from the list, and
if this is to be systematized then we need backups. IMHO it would be
worse to systematize this and then have it fall apart later due to
knowledgeable volunteers drifting away, than to not do it at all.
>>>>> > To view this discussion visithttps://groups.google.com/d/
>>>>> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/
>>>>> d/ msgid/>>
>>>>> > standardebooks/
contributors on the list who had this specialized knowledge, and who we
could assign this work to when it came up.
I.e. producer X would be working on an ebook that includes a score, and
instead of doing it themselves they send it to producer Y who reads
music and knows MuseScore, and who sends back the correct MusicXML file
to include in the ebook.
Two would be the minimum because people come and go from the list, and
if this is to be systematized then we need backups. IMHO it would be
worse to systematize this and then have it fall apart later due to
knowledgeable volunteers drifting away, than to not do it at all.
>>>>> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/
>>>>> d/ msgid/>>
>>>>> > standardebooks/
>>>>> D3FF5638-2C72-45D9-97AB-448D4F6A5025%40reala.net <http://40reala.net/>
>>>>> <http://40reala.net/ <http://40reala.net/>>
>>>>> <http://40reala.net/ <http://40reala.net/>>
Robin Whittleton
Jul 21, 2026, 1:13:09 PM (20 hours ago) Jul 21
to standar...@googlegroups.com
Understood!
In any case, I’m at a point now where I’m ready to proof this.
-Robin
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Robin Whittleton
Jul 21, 2026, 1:51:36 PM (20 hours ago) Jul 21
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Oh, forgot to ask, the final thing I was going to check: what do we think about extraneous capitalisation? Here’s the very first utterance in the opera:
If this was a modern production I guess “If Poverty be a Title to Poetry”, “Weekly Festivals”, “Yearly Salary for my Catches”, “Dinner” and “Poets” would be lowercase. But it’s going to be a chunk of work, and I’m not sure it’s necessary.
If Poverty be a Title to Poetry, I am sure nobody can dispute mine. I own myself of the Company of Beggars; and I make one at their Weekly Festivals at St. Giles’s. I have a small Yearly Salary for my Catches, and am welcome to a Dinner there whenever I please, which is more than most Poets can say.
-Robin
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/2D87212C-AEE9-4D42-8A3B-7C9C88BAA936%40reala.net.
Alex Cabal
Jul 21, 2026, 1:59:00 PM (20 hours ago) Jul 21
to standar...@googlegroups.com
Yes I would lowercase those. That was typical of the era but it's not
modern style.
>>>>>>>> standardebooks/ <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>>>>>>>> standardebooks/
>>>>>>>> >ea2c3de2-1a47-46e8-9fe9-1e2588004c3dn%40googlegroups.com
>>> e994b580-78c7-41b1-8169-15a6562ef1da%40standardebooks.org <https://
>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
>>> e994b580-78c7-41b1-8169-15a6562ef1da%40standardebooks.org>.
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/2D87212C-
>> AEE9-4D42-8A3B-7C9C88BAA936%40reala.net?
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/C05A5463-6CA4-44D0-
> B3BA-BA57CF0A5DD3%40reala.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
modern style.
>>>>>>>> standardebooks/
>>>>>>>> >ea2c3de2-1a47-46e8-9fe9-1e2588004c3dn%40googlegroups.com
>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
>>> e994b580-78c7-41b1-8169-15a6562ef1da%40standardebooks.org>.
>>
>>
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Alex Cabal
Jul 21, 2026, 2:00:56 PM (20 hours ago) Jul 21
to standar...@googlegroups.com
Might be easy to get a list of possible words with grep "[a-z] [A-Z]"
<files> | sort | uniq -u
Then remove proper names and lowercase the remaining items with sed.
Then do a git diff at the character level (see the step by step guide
for a formula) to confirm
On 7/21/26 12:51 PM, Robin Whittleton wrote:
>>>>>>>> standardebooks/ <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>>>>>>>> standardebooks/
>>>>>>>> >ea2c3de2-1a47-46e8-9fe9-1e2588004c3dn%40googlegroups.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/2D87212C-
>> AEE9-4D42-8A3B-7C9C88BAA936%40reala.net?
<files> | sort | uniq -u
Then remove proper names and lowercase the remaining items with sed.
Then do a git diff at the character level (see the step by step guide
for a formula) to confirm
On 7/21/26 12:51 PM, Robin Whittleton wrote:
>>>>>>>> standardebooks/
>>>>>>>> >ea2c3de2-1a47-46e8-9fe9-1e2588004c3dn%40googlegroups.com
>>> To view this discussion visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>>> standardebooks/
>>> e994b580-78c7-41b1-8169-15a6562ef1da%40standardebooks.org <https://
>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
>>> e994b580-78c7-41b1-8169-15a6562ef1da%40standardebooks.org>.
>>> standardebooks/
>>> e994b580-78c7-41b1-8169-15a6562ef1da%40standardebooks.org <https://
>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
>>
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