The Guilded Age by Mark Twain and Charles Dudley Warner

Bob R. Kenyon

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Mar 27, 2025, 9:46:13 PM3/27/25

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I’m just starting on this book, taking over from Vince who has already started working on it and offered me his repo.

bobrk/mark-twain_charles-dudley-warner_the-gilded-age

github.com

Thanks,

Bob

Alex Cabal

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Mar 27, 2025, 10:08:39 PM3/27/25

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OK, David will manage this with Emma reviewing.

On 3/27/25 8:45 PM, Bob R. Kenyon wrote:
> I’m just starting on this book, taking over from Vince who has already
> started working on it and offered me his repo.
>

> mark-twain_charles-dudley-warner_the-gilded-age.png
> bobrk/mark-twain_charles-dudley-warner_the-gilded-age
> <https://github.com/bobrk/mark-twain_charles-dudley-warner_the-gilded-age>
> github.com
> <https://github.com/bobrk/mark-twain_charles-dudley-warner_the-gilded-age>
>
> <https://github.com/bobrk/mark-twain_charles-dudley-warner_the-gilded-age>
>
> Thanks,
> Bob
>
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Bob R. Kenyon

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Apr 3, 2025, 8:09:49 PM4/3/25

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So I’m starting work on this book and there are a couple questions I have.

1. Vince started adding back in the epigraphs that lead each chapter, and got about halfway through. I would like to continue that, since I think they add a touch of whimsy to the book. Some are in non-unicode lanugages and will have to be rendered as SVGs probably.

2. There seem to be different scans of the book, some presenting it in two volumes, others in only one. There are differing chapter titles in each version as well. should I just use my best judgement in assembling this? Or are we interested in exaclty replicating a particular version of the book?

Here are two sample scans, the first is Vince’s source, from 1915, and in two volumes.

the gilded age : mark twain : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

archive.org

The second is from 1874, presented in one volume:

The gilded age : a tale of to-day : Twain, Mark, 1835-1910 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

archive.org

Thanks,

Bob

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Bob R. Kenyon

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Apr 3, 2025, 8:46:02 PM4/3/25

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I got my answer from Vince, so I’m good. I’ll use the later publication but in one volume.

Thanks,

Bob

On Apr 3, 2025, at 17:09, Bob R. Kenyon <b...@bobrk.com> wrote:

So I’m starting work on this book and there are a couple questions I have.

1. Vince started adding back in the epigraphs that lead each chapter, and got about halfway through. I would like to continue that, since I think they add a touch of whimsy to the book. Some are in non-unicode lanugages and will have to be rendered as SVGs probably.

2. There seem to be different scans of the book, some presenting it in two volumes, others in only one. There are differing chapter titles in each version as well. should I just use my best judgement in assembling this? Or are we interested in exaclty replicating a particular version of the book?

Here are two sample scans, the first is Vince’s source, from 1915, and in two volumes.

<gildedage0001mark_m7v6.jpeg>
the gilded age : mark twain : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
archive.org

The second is from 1874, presented in one volume:

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/5CDD8CD7-5EAB-4E93-9D41-BFC9F519CBDC%40bobrk.com.

Alex Cabal

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Apr 3, 2025, 11:13:58 PM4/3/25

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On 4/3/25 7:09 PM, Bob R. Kenyon wrote:
> So I’m starting work on this book and there are a couple questions I have.
>
> 1. Vince started adding back in the epigraphs that lead each chapter,
> and got about halfway through. I would like to continue that, since I
> think they add a touch of whimsy to the book. Some are in non-unicode
> lanugages and will have to be rendered as SVGs probably.

Are you *certain* they are languages that are not in Unicode? AFAIK
Unicode encodes *all* languages including ancient and obscure ones.

Bob R Kenyon

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Apr 4, 2025, 12:02:34 AM4/4/25

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> On Apr 3, 2025, at 20:14, Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org> wrote:

I am not certain, I will look into it.

Thanks,
Bob

Vince

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Apr 4, 2025, 1:10:10 AM4/4/25

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It tries to encode all living languages, but not all languages, period. But at least some of these will have to be SVG’s whether they’re Unicode or not, because no reader font is going to support them. And for some, I suspect even if they are Unicode, it’s going to be difficult to find an existing font with support for them, even to make the SVG. But I didn’t get that far into it, so that last is supposition. (Some of these languages are really out there in terms of scripts.)

Bob, the Unicode roadmap page shows the languages they have and the proposals that have been accepted, submitted, etc.

Robin Whittleton

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Apr 4, 2025, 1:14:39 AM4/4/25

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Noto is licensed under OFL and has pretty amazing coverage these days. E.g. I found out recently that they have Linear A and B support.

On 4 Apr 2025, at 07:10, Vince <vr_se...@letterboxes.org> wrote:

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Bob R. Kenyon

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Apr 4, 2025, 1:20:59 AM4/4/25

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Thanks for that, Vince.

Bob

David

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Apr 4, 2025, 3:40:10 AM4/4/25

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There is at least cuneiform (for this)! :) There are a few I don't recognize at all, but my hunch is that they probably exist in unicode.

There's an article that probes this to some extent, and remarks specifically on these epigraphs (pp. 222f.). Not sure it's any help practically, but it does suggest their role in the book: "Academic philological obscurantism is thus incongruously flaunted as American populism, as a story about contemporary American politics is couched in archaic and incomprehensible heiroglyphics." (p. 223) FWIW!

David / Fife, UK

Weijia Cheng

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Apr 4, 2025, 9:05:50 AM4/4/25

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https://archive.org/details/gildedage0001mark_m7v6/page/n341/mode/2up

Chapter 5 seems to be Tamil script. The first character looks like பு (U+0BAA U+0BC1). I think the complete sequence is புத்தகங்கள். I am not super confident about my transcription (I know nothing about Tamil) but this appears to be a real word meaning "books."

I might go through and try to do more of these, this is actually kind of fun :)

Weijia Cheng

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Apr 4, 2025, 9:44:17 AM4/4/25

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As David noted, chapter 6 is cuneiform.

I think chapter 10 is Arabic.

Chapter 18 is Cyrillic.

Chapter 23 looks like Devanagari.

Chapter 27 is supposed to be Chinese, I think. My ability to read Chinese borders on nonexistent, so please don't take me as any sort of authority, but the first two characters look mangled to me (I don't think those are real characters. The best I could come up with was 分不白皂.

Chapter 28 is Greek:

Ὁ κακρίνος ὧδ’ εϕα
Χαλᾲ τὸν ὄϕιν λαβών·
Εὐθὺν χρὴ τον ἐταῖρον, ἔμμεν,
Καὶ μὴ σκολιὰ ϕρονεῖν.

Chapter 29 might be Javanese?

I think chapter 33 is Syriac?

The final line is Hebrew.

Hope this helps. Might be a good starting point for figuring these out!

Hendrik Kaiber

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Apr 4, 2025, 9:46:40 AM4/4/25

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Just to let you guys know that the author explicitly tells the language of these sentences and their translation in an appendix, in case you haven't noticed (he claims that chapter VI is Assyrian, for instance.)

-Hendrik

Weijia Cheng

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Apr 4, 2025, 9:52:11 AM4/4/25

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Well, that definitely helps! Checking against the appendix, I think my transcriptions of the Tamil and Chinese are correct.

David

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Apr 4, 2025, 10:08:33 AM4/4/25

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Thanks, Hendrik - I noticed, but only after Weijia's impressive bit of philogical detection! (And while "Assyrian" is the *language*, "cuneiform" is the *script*. :)

(Nicely done, Weijia!)

Here's the Hebrew string : טוב אחרית דבר מראשיתו although it would be nice to have this in a decent "book" font.

I could maybe help with the Syriac if need be, but the Peshitta of Ruth is difficult to access.

D.

David

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Apr 4, 2025, 10:22:59 AM4/4/25

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Found it. Here's the Syriac:

ܘܢܗܘܐ ܡܒܝܐܢܐ ܠܢܦܫܟܝ̣. ܘܡܬܪܣܝܢܐ ܠܡܕܝܢܬܟܝ.
ܕܐܪܥܘܬ : ܕ : ܝܗ

(The quote, followed by the reference.) There's a nice "online" Peshitta here, as I discovered. :)

D.

Bob R Kenyon

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Apr 4, 2025, 10:35:31 AM4/4/25

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Wow, thanks guys!

The edition we’re working from has a separate author for the appendix material, I’m assuming I should add this name to the contributors?

Bob

On Apr 4, 2025, at 07:23, David <djre...@gmail.com> wrote:

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David

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Apr 4, 2025, 11:04:08 AM4/4/25

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If you mean the "appendix" with the languages/translations for the epigraphs, etc., at the moment it's not part of the ebook edition, so not attribution (only in `content.opf`, I would think) is needed.

Were you planning to add it in? If so, then (again), just include in `content.opf`, perhaps with a `wst` relator (or is there something else we use?).

D.

Bob R. Kenyon

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Apr 4, 2025, 11:34:19 AM4/4/25

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Yes, just content.opf.

Thanks,

Bob

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Bob R. Kenyon

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Apr 4, 2025, 11:48:24 AM4/4/25

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The book leads off with a Chinese quote, translated in the Appendix. Should I use a unicode for this, or is this an SVG situation?

Thanks,

Bob

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David

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Apr 4, 2025, 12:17:20 PM4/4/25

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If it was me, I'd be SVGing it! I don't know if Weijia can help with this one. Probably Unicode would be the ideal, but whether that's attainable is the question.

D.

Weijia Cheng

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Apr 4, 2025, 12:52:17 PM4/4/25

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I think it's

同協

心力

坭山

變成

金玉

Weijia Cheng

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Apr 4, 2025, 12:56:36 PM4/4/25

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Something to note here is that it is supposed to be read top to bottom, then right to left. I don't know if that's something we have to encode into the book somehow.

Bob R Kenyon

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Apr 4, 2025, 1:16:12 PM4/4/25

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My research (Google translate lol) indicated that the translation in the appendix was pretty correct.

Thanks,

Bob

On Apr 4, 2025, at 09:56, 'Weijia Cheng' via Standard Ebooks <standar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Something to note here is that it is supposed to be read top to bottom, then right to left. I don't know if that's something we have to encode into the book somehow.

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Anthony J. Bentley

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Apr 4, 2025, 2:04:14 PM4/4/25

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CSS writing-mode exists for this purpose.

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/writing-mode

Anthony J. Bentley

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Apr 4, 2025, 2:24:53 PM4/4/25

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To be more specific, the phrase would be written in HTML as 協力山成玉同心坭變金, and writing-mode: vertical-rl would be applied to it.

Alex Cabal

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Apr 4, 2025, 5:16:13 PM4/4/25

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This is how we should do it. I don't know what ereader support would be like... Can someone test on a Kindle and Kobo?

If support is poor, this is conceivably something that we could convert to SVG during build, much like we convert mathML to SVG.

Anthony J. Bentley

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Apr 4, 2025, 6:14:03 PM4/4/25

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SVG fallback could be done, but seems like overkill. A platform that doesn’t support writing-mode would simply display the text left-to-right which is just as comprehensible to a Chinese reader. Although it could be argued to lose the foreign aesthetic that printing the proverb in Chinese was intended to provide.

Hendrik Kaiber

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Apr 4, 2025, 8:34:38 PM4/4/25

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I sent a simple file with some of the characters to my Kindle Paperwhite to test them. I didn't install any new fonts, so all were rendered using the fonts present in an standard kindle.

As I expected, cuneiform didn't render at all. Tamil and Syriac rendered well. Chinese (using writing-mode: vertical-rl ;) rendered the characters but not the vertical style, instead rendering as normal horizontal left-to-right. Syriac (and likely other Semitic scripts) do seem to need dir: ltr; to properly render, however.

--Hendrik

Bob R. Kenyon

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Aug 25, 2025, 9:37:12 PM8/25/25

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Alex had emailed me a while ago about this book, which I hadn’t worked on for a while and he wanted to consider it abandoned and put it back on the wanted list.

I would like to work on it again, if that’s ok. I don’t see any mentions of it being picked up on the list, nor do I see it on the wanted list, so if it’s ok, I’ld like to dig back in.

Thanks,

Bob

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Alex Cabal

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Aug 25, 2025, 9:47:39 PM8/25/25

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OK, if you want to continue working on it, I'll return the project to
'in progress' status. Please make sure to push some commits to your repo
from time to time to keep the project active.

>> writing-mode <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/
>> docs/Web/CSS/writing-mode>

>> Screenshot 2025-04-03 at 22.35.10.png
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Bob R Kenyon

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Aug 25, 2025, 10:13:59 PM8/25/25

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Thanks, I will…

Bob
> On Aug 25, 2025, at 18:47, Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org> wrote:
>
> OK, if you want to continue working on it, I'll return the project to 'in progress' status. Please make sure to push some commits to your repo from time to time to keep the project active.

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>

Bob Kenyon

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May 2, 2026, 11:24:36 PMMay 2

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Hi, I've found some time/inspiration to return to working on this, sorry for the long delay. It's a lot more complex than I'd imagined, but I'm working through it.

Thanks,

Bob

Bob R. Kenyon

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May 10, 2026, 11:28:15 PMMay 10

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Hi,

So I’ve been engaging Claude to help me out with some of these tougher epigraphs, and I’ll probably be asking on here for help for what Claude can’t figure out.

First one is in chapter two. There is an epigraph in Ethiopic. In the scan it looks like this;

First it appears to be OCRing out like this:

መፍትወ፡ሕዝበ፡ክርስቲያን፡እለ፡እልቦሙ፡ውሉደ፡
ይሔፅኖሙ፡ለእጅሉ፡ሚቃዊት፡ወሬዱት፡ወይናገሉ፡
ወይረስይዎሙ፡ከሙ፡ወሉዶሙ፡ወፊፅፊፅ፡፡

Claude is having some problem with the last line:

The last word on line 3 before ፡፡ is the one PV blog identified as omitted from the GA print. Looking at the image it appears to be ወፊፅፊፅ or similar — but this is exactly the word that needs a Ge'ez scholar to confirm from the source, both because it's the crux of the textual problem and because the final fidels are the hardest to read at this resolution.

I don’t know if anyone here can read this (or is a Ge’ez scholar) and verify, if not I’ll do some other verification.

(I also fixed the embarrassing mistake in the email subject, hope that doesn’t mess up any threads.)

Thanks,

Bob

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Alex Cabal

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May 11, 2026, 2:31:34 PMMay 11

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I doubt anyone here will be able to read that. Just do your best. At a
glance the OCR is not entirely accurate, for example the 2nd to last
character (among others) doesn't seem to be right.

On 5/10/26 10:28 PM, Bob R. Kenyon wrote:
> Hi,
>
> So I’ve been engaging Claude to help me out with some of these tougher
> epigraphs, and I’ll probably be asking on here for help for what Claude
> can’t figure out.
>
> First one is in chapter two. There is an epigraph in Ethiopic. In the
> scan it looks like this;
>

> Screenshot 2026-05-10 at 20.15.55.png
>
> First it appears to be OCRing out like this:
>
> መፍትወ፡ሕዝበ፡ክርስቲያን፡እለ፡እልቦሙ፡ውሉደ፡
> ይሔፅኖሙ፡ለእጅሉ፡ሚቃዊት፡ወሬዱት፡ወይናገሉ፡
> ወይረስይዎሙ፡ከሙ፡ወሉዶሙ፡ወፊፅፊፅ፡፡
>
>
> Claude is having some problem with the last line:
>
>
> The last word on line 3 before ፡፡ is the one PV blog identified as
> omitted from the GA print. Looking at the image it appears to be

> *ወፊፅፊፅ* or similar — but this is exactly the word that needs a Ge'ez

>> >>> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/ <https://
>> developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/>
>> >>> writing-mode <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/ <https://
>> developer.mozilla.org/en-US/>

>> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
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>> <http://40googlegroups.com/> <https:// groups.google.com/d/msgid/
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>> standardebooks/67d18166->
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>> e64c7d66af55%40standardebooks.org <https://groups.google.com/d/
>> msgid/standardebooks/21a582f0-626d-49c5-ad8b-
>> e64c7d66af55%40standardebooks.org>.
>> >
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Bob R. Kenyon

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May 11, 2026, 2:38:15 PMMay 11

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Claude and I have gone around on this a bit. I’ll post up when I have my most reasonable result.

Thanks,

Bob

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David

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May 12, 2026, 6:21:58 AMMay 12

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I'm a bit late to the party on this, Bob, but I think I've got it for you:

መፍትው፡ ሕዝበ፡ ክርስቲያን፡ እለ፡ እልቦሙ፡ ውሉደ፡

ይሕፅንዋሙ፡ ለእጓለ፡ ማውታ፡ ወሬዙት፡ ወደናግል፡

ወይረስይዋሙ፡ ከመ፡ ውሉደሙ፡ ወፈድፈደ።

That matches the Gilded Age image, but informed by the 1834 Platt edition. I don't know whether Alex would prefer Unicode (as above), or SVG of the original? Or even copy/paste that Unicode into Inkscape for SVG? (See option attached.) Hope that helps.

gilded-ethiopic.svg

Bob R Kenyon

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May 12, 2026, 9:24:01 AMMay 12

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Thanks, appreciate it! I think we are doing Unicode if available, svg as a last resort.

Thanks,

Bob

On May 12, 2026, at 03:22, David <djre...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm a bit late to the party on this, Bob, but I think I've got it for you:

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/42d1b0d2-4c54-49ad-9d14-00b7dcfa48b0n%40googlegroups.com.

<gilded-ethiopic.svg>

Vince Rice

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May 12, 2026, 9:31:47 AMMay 12

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You should definitely *start* with Unicode whenever possible, but ereader support for the less common non-Latin script languages, including this one, is going to be a problem. Most fonts don’t have full coverage of every available script. I think you’re going to have to convert the Unicode to SVG in those.

That’s subject to Alex’s decision, of course.

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Alex Cabal

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May 12, 2026, 11:09:40 AMMay 12

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Thanks David!

I think most fonts almost certainly won't have these code points, we
should do it as SVG.

On 5/12/26 8:31 AM, Vince Rice wrote:
> You should definitely *start* with Unicode whenever possible, but
> ereader support for the less common non-Latin script languages,
> including this one, is going to be a problem. Most fonts don’t have full
> coverage of every available script. I think you’re going to have to
> convert the Unicode to SVG in those.
>
> That’s subject to Alex’s decision, of course.
>
>> On May 12, 2026, at 8:24 AM, Bob R Kenyon <b...@bobrk.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, appreciate it! I think we are doing Unicode if available, svg
>> as a last resort.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Bob
>>
>>> On May 12, 2026, at 03:22, David <djre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm a bit late to the party on this, Bob, but I think I've got it
>>> for you:
>>>
>>> መፍትው፡ ሕዝበ፡ ክርስቲያን፡ እለ፡ እልቦሙ፡ ውሉደ፡
>>>
>>> ይሕፅንዋሙ፡ ለእጓለ፡ ማውታ፡ ወሬዙት፡ ወደናግል፡
>>>
>>> ወይረስይዋሙ፡ ከመ፡ ውሉደሙ፡ ወፈድፈደ።
>>>
>>>
>>> That matches the Gilded Age image, but informed by the 1834 Platt

>>> edition <https://archive.org/details/ethiopicdidascal00platrich/page/
>>> n146/mode/1up>. I don't know whether Alex would prefer Unicode (as

>>> above), or SVG of the original? Or even copy/paste that Unicode into
>>> Inkscape for SVG? (See option attached.) Hope that helps.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, 11 May 2026 at 04:28:15 UTC+1 b...@bobrk.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> So I’ve been engaging Claude to help me out with some of these
>>> tougher epigraphs, and I’ll probably be asking on here for help
>>> for what Claude can’t figure out.
>>>
>>> First one is in chapter two. There is an epigraph in Ethiopic. In
>>> the scan it looks like this;
>>>

>>> Screenshot 2026-05-10 at 20.15.55.png
>>>
>>> First it appears to be OCRing out like this:
>>>
>>> መፍትወ፡ሕዝበ፡ክርስቲያን፡እለ፡እልቦሙ፡ውሉደ፡
>>> ይሔፅኖሙ፡ለእጅሉ፡ሚቃዊት፡ወሬዱት፡ወይናገሉ፡
>>> ወይረስይዎሙ፡ከሙ፡ወሉዶሙ፡ወፊፅፊፅ፡፡
>>>
>>>
>>> Claude is having some problem with the last line:
>>>
>>>
>>> The last word on line 3 before ፡፡ is the one PV blog
>>> identified as omitted from the GA print. Looking at the image

>>> it appears to be *ወፊፅፊፅ* or similar — but this is exactly the

>>>> >>> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/

>>>> d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
>>>> standardebooks/67d18166-
>>>> daf8-4c91-998f-0b24e12d5a17n%40googlegroups.com

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>>>> msgid/standardebooks/67d18166- <http://groups.google.com/d/
>>>> msgid/standardebooks/67d18166->
>>>> daf8-4c91-998f-0b24e12d5a17n%40googlegroups.com
>>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>?

>>>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
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>>> <gilded-ethiopic.svg>
>>
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Bob R. Kenyon

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May 12, 2026, 12:13:27 PMMay 12

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I’m fine with learning how to do that, but is there a link to what level of unicode support different eReaders have? I don’t want to be the decider of which ones work and which ones don’t.

I can ask Claude too.

Bob

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<gilded-ethiopic.svg>

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Alex Cabal

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May 12, 2026, 12:32:56 PMMay 12

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It depends on the font they are using. Most use a font that only has
ascii plus some extended characters. Anything more exotic than cyrillic
or greek is unlikely to be supported

>>>>> page/ n146/mode/1up <https://archive.org/details/
>>>>> ethiopicdidascal00platrich/page/%20n146/mode/1up>>. I don't know

>>>>> whether Alex would prefer Unicode (as above), or SVG of the
>>>>> original? Or even copy/paste that Unicode into Inkscape for SVG?
>>>>> (See option attached.) Hope that helps.
>>>>>
>>>>>

>>>>> On Monday, 11 May 2026 at 04:28:15 UTC+1 b...@bobrk.com <http://
>>>>> bobrk.com/>wrote:

>>>>>
>>>>>    Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>    So I’ve been engaging Claude to help me out with some of these
>>>>>    tougher epigraphs, and I’ll probably be asking on here for help
>>>>>    for what Claude can’t figure out.
>>>>>
>>>>>    First one is in chapter two. There is an epigraph in Ethiopic. In
>>>>>    the scan it looks like this;
>>>>>
>>>>>    Screenshot 2026-05-10 at 20.15.55.png
>>>>>
>>>>>    First it appears to be OCRing out like this:
>>>>>
>>>>>        መፍትወ፡ሕዝበ፡ክርስቲያን፡እለ፡እልቦሙ፡ውሉደ፡
>>>>>        ይሔፅኖሙ፡ለእጅሉ፡ሚቃዊት፡ወሬዱት፡ወይናገሉ፡
>>>>>        ወይረስይዎሙ፡ከሙ፡ወሉዶሙ፡ወፊፅፊፅ፡፡
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    Claude is having some problem with the last line:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>        The last word on line 3 before ፡፡ is the one PV blog
>>>>>        identified as omitted from the GA print. Looking at the image
>>>>>        it appears to be *ወፊፅፊፅ* or similar — but this is exactly the
>>>>>        word that needs a Ge'ez scholar to confirm from the source,
>>>>>        both because it's the crux of the textual problem and because
>>>>>        the final fidels are the hardest to read at this resolution.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    I don’t know if anyone here can read this (or is a Ge’ez scholar)
>>>>>    and verify, if not I’ll do some other verification.
>>>>>
>>>>>    (I also fixed the embarrassing mistake in the email subject, hope
>>>>>    that doesn’t mess up any threads.)
>>>>>
>>>>>    Thanks,
>>>>>    Bob
>>>>>

>>>>>> On May 2, 2026, at 20:24, Bob Kenyon <b...@bobrk.com <http://

>>>>>> bobrk.com/>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Hi, I've found some time/inspiration to return to working on
>>>>>>    this, sorry for the long delay. It's a lot more complex than I'd
>>>>>>    imagined, but I'm working through it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Thanks,
>>>>>>    Bob
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    On Monday, August 25, 2025 at 7:13:59 PM UTC-7 Bob Kenyon wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Thanks, I will…
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Bob
>>>>>>        > On Aug 25, 2025, at 18:47, Alex Cabal

>>>>>>        <al...@standardebooks.org <http://standardebooks.org/>> wrote:
>>>>>>        >
>>>>>>        > OK, if you want to continue working on it, I'll return
>>>>>>        the project to 'in progress' status. Please make sure to
>>>>>>        push some commits to your repo from time to time to keep the
>>>>>>        project active.
>>>>>>        >
>>>>>>        >> On 8/25/25 8:37 PM, Bob R. Kenyon wrote:
>>>>>>        >> Alex had emailed me a while ago about this book, which I
>>>>>>        hadn’t worked on for a while and he wanted to consider it
>>>>>>        abandoned and put it back on the wanted list.
>>>>>>        >> I would like to work on it again, if that’s ok. I don’t
>>>>>>        see any mentions of it being picked up on the list, nor do I
>>>>>>        see it on the wanted list, so if it’s ok, I’ld like to dig
>>>>>>        back in.
>>>>>>        >> Thanks,
>>>>>>        >> Bob
>>>>>>        >>>> On Apr 4, 2025, at 17:34, Hendrik Kaiber

>>>>>>        <hendrik....@gmail.com <http://gmail.com/>> wrote:
>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>        >>> I sent a simple file with some of the characters to my
>>>>>>        Kindle Paperwhite to test them. I didn't install any new
>>>>>>        fonts, so all were rendered using the fonts present in an
>>>>>>        standard kindle.
>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>        >>> As I expected, cuneiform didn't render at all. Tamil and
>>>>>>        Syriac rendered well. Chinese (using writing-mode: vertical-
>>>>>>        rl ;) rendered the characters but not the vertical style,
>>>>>>        instead rendering as normal horizontal left-to-right. Syriac
>>>>>>        (and likely other Semitic scripts) do seem to need dir: ltr;
>>>>>>        to properly render, however.
>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>        >>> --Hendrik
>>>>>>        >>>> Em sexta-feira, 4 de abril de 2025 às 19:14:03 UTC-3,
>>>>>>        ant...@roadrunner.page escreveu:
>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>        >>> SVG fallback could be done, but seems like overkill. A
>>>>>>        platform
>>>>>>        >>> that doesn’t support writing-mode would simply display
>>>>>>        the text
>>>>>>        >>> left-to-right which is just as comprehensible to a
>>>>>>        Chinese reader.
>>>>>>        >>> Although it could be argued to lose the foreign
>>>>>>        aesthetic that
>>>>>>        >>> printing the proverb in Chinese was intended to provide.
>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>        >>> On April 4, 2025 3:16:03 PM MDT, Alex Cabal

>>>>>> >>> <al...@standardebooks.org <http://standardebooks.org/>>

>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>        >>> This is how we should do it. I don't know what ereader
>>>>>>        support
>>>>>>        >>> would be like... Can someone test on a Kindle and Kobo?
>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>        >>> If support is poor, this is conceivably something that we
>>>>>>        >>> could convert to SVG during build, much like we convert
>>>>>>        mathML
>>>>>>        >>> to SVG.
>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>        >>> On April 4, 2025 1:24:49 PM CDT, "'Anthony J. Bentley' via

>>>>>> >>> Standard Ebooks" <standar...@googlegroups.com <http://

>>>>>> googlegroups.com/>> wrote:
>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>        >>> To be more specific, the phrase would be written in HTML
>>>>>>        >>> as 協力山成玉同心坭變金, and writing-mode: vertical-rl
>>>>>>        >>> would be applied to it.
>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>        >>> On April 4, 2025 12:04:05 PM MDT, "'Anthony J. Bentley'
>>>>>>        >>> via Standard Ebooks" <standar...@googlegroups.com

>>>>>> <http://googlegroups.com/>> wrote:
>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>        >>> CSS writing-mode exists for this purpose.
>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>        >>>https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/
>>>>>> <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/>
>>>>>>        <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/
>>>>>> <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/>>
>>>>>>        >>> writing-mode <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/
>>>>>> <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/>

>>>>>> <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/ <https://
>>>>>> developer.mozilla.org/en-US/>>

>>>>>>        >>> docs/Web/CSS/writing-mode>
>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>        >>> On April 4, 2025 10:56:36 AM MDT, 'Weijia Cheng' via

>>>>>> >>> Standard Ebooks <standar...@googlegroups.com <http://

>>>>>> <http://googlegroups.com/>
>>>>>> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com <http://
>>>>>> googlegroups.com/>>.

>>>>>> >>> To view this discussion visithttps://groups.google.com/
>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/>

>>>>>>        d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://
>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>
>>>>>>        standardebooks/67d18166-
>>>>>>        daf8-4c91-998f-0b24e12d5a17n%40googlegroups.com
>>>>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>
>>>>>>        <http://40googlegroups.com/ <http://40googlegroups.com/>>
>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/ <http://groups.google.com/d/>
>>>>>>        msgid/standardebooks/67d18166- <http://groups.google.com/d/

>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/d/>
>>>>>> msgid/standardebooks/67d18166->
>>>>>> daf8-4c91-998f-0b24e12d5a17n%40googlegroups.com
>>>>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>

>>>>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/ <http://40googlegroups.com/>>?

>>>>>>        utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
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>>>>>> >> To view this discussion visithttps://groups.google.com/
>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/>

>>>>>>        d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://
>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>
>>>>>>        standardebooks/FDAEB9D5-B8C7-4CE5-95B5-
>>>>>>        A9ABBDEF09EE%40bobrk.com <http://40bobrk.com/
>>>>>> ><http://40bobrk.com/ <http://40bobrk.com/>> <https://
>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/FDAEB9D5- <http://
>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/FDAEB9D5-><https://
>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/FDAEB9D5- <http://
>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/FDAEB9D5->>
>>>>>>        B8C7-4CE5-95B5-A9ABBDEF09EE%40bobrk.com <http://40bobrk.com/>?
>>>>>>        utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40bobrk.com/?

>>>>>> <http://40bobrk.com/?>
>>>>>>        utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>>>>>>        >
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>>>>>> > To view this discussion visithttps://groups.google.com/d/

>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/>
>>>>>>        msgid/standardebooks/21a582f0-626d-49c5-ad8b-
>>>>>>        e64c7d66af55%40standardebooks.org
>>>>>> <http://40standardebooks.org/><https://
>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/21a582f0-626d-49c5-
>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/21a582f0-626d-49c5->
>>>>>>        ad8b-e64c7d66af55%40standardebooks.org
>>>>>> <http://40standardebooks.org/>>.

>>>>>>        >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> To view this discussion visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
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>>>>>>    standardebooks/21f12fbd-025b-4cdc-
>>>>>>    b712-818579ad2d39n%40googlegroups.com
>>>>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/><https://
>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/21f12fbd-025b-4cdc-
>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/21f12fbd-025b-4cdc->
>>>>>>    b712-818579ad2d39n%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com/>?
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>>>>>
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>>>>> To view this discussion visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
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>>>>> >standardebooks/42d1b0d2-4c54-49ad-9d14-00b7dcfa48b0n%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com/><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/42d1b0d2-4c54-49ad-9d14-00b7dcfa48b0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/42d1b0d2-4c54-49ad-9d14-00b7dcfa48b0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

>>>>> <gilded-ethiopic.svg>
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>> send an email tostandardeboo...@googlegroups.com
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>>>> To view this discussion visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

>>>> >standardebooks/1173822B-47B4-4B62-B48C-329EE0618C05%40bobrk.com
>>>> <http://40bobrk.com/><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>>>> standardebooks/1173822B-47B4-4B62- B48C-329EE0618C05%40bobrk.com?
>>>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/
>>>> msgid/standardebooks/1173822B-47B4-4B62-
>>>> %20B48C-329EE0618C05%40bobrk.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

>>> --
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>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>standardebooks/D4E8A469-
>>> ABA7-4A97-8ED8-566EFE919802%40letterboxes.org
>>> <http://40letterboxes.org/><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>>> standardebooks/D4E8A469-
>>> ABA7-4A97-8ED8-566EFE919802%40letterboxes.org?
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>>> msgid/standardebooks/D4E8A469-
>>> %20ABA7-4A97-8ED8-566EFE919802%40letterboxes.org?
>>> %20utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

>>
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>> standardebooks/a04b984f-7fee-46c0-
>> b4f8-1524a5c49b0a%40standardebooks.org <https://groups.google.com/d/
>> msgid/standardebooks/a04b984f-7fee-46c0-
>> b4f8-1524a5c49b0a%40standardebooks.org>.

>
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> standardebooks/CC657433-ED79-4F85-992E-4BA114811832%40bobrk.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/CC657433-
> ED79-4F85-992E-4BA114811832%40bobrk.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

Bob R. Kenyon

unread,

May 12, 2026, 12:40:01 PMMay 12

to standar...@googlegroups.com

Got it. Claude mentioned epubtest.org, which I will investigate. Also an interesting observation:

4. For your specific problem scripts, the honest current picture based on what the SE group discussion already touched on is:

Ethiopic, Tamil, Greek, Cyrillic, Hebrew, CJK, Hiragana — render correctly on all major modern readers (Apple Books, Kobo, Kindle app on iOS/Android). E-ink Kindle hardware is the weakest link for anything beyond Latin, Greek and Cyrillic.
Arabic/Sindhi — RTL support varies; Apple Books and Kobo handle it well, older Kindle firmware less so
Tifinagh — poor support across all readers; this is the most likely to need SVG
Cuneiform, Egyptian Hieroglyphs — no reader renders these from Unicode reliably; SVG is the right call regardless

Does this seem accurate?

Lots of ways to go on this, thanks for the inputs…

Bob

To view this discussion visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ >standardebooks/1173822B-47B4-4B62-B48C-329EE0618C05%40bobrk.com <http://40bobrk.com/><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/1173822B-47B4-4B62- B48C-329EE0618C05%40bobrk.com? utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/ msgid/standardebooks/1173822B-47B4-4B62- %20B48C-329EE0618C05%40bobrk.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

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Alex Cabal

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May 12, 2026, 12:51:26 PMMay 12

to standar...@googlegroups.com

Don't offload your thinking to Claude. If you're going to have Claude do
all this for you, then why are you here?

As I mentioned, this is a font issue, not an accessibility issue.
epubtest.org has nothing to do with this.

On 5/12/26 11:39 AM, Bob R. Kenyon wrote:
> Got it. Claude mentioned epubtest.org <http://epubtest.org>, which I

> will investigate. Also an interesting observation:
>

> *4. For your specific problem scripts*, the honest current picture based

> on what the SE group discussion already touched on is:
>

> * *Ethiopic, Tamil, Greek, Cyrillic, Hebrew, CJK, Hiragana* — render

> correctly on all major modern readers (Apple Books, Kobo, Kindle app
> on iOS/Android). E-ink Kindle hardware is the weakest link for
> anything beyond Latin, Greek and Cyrillic.

> * *Arabic/Sindhi* — RTL support varies; Apple Books and Kobo handle it

> well, older Kindle firmware less so

> * *Tifinagh* — poor support across all readers; this is the most
> likely to need SVG
> * *Cuneiform, Egyptian Hieroglyphs* — no reader renders these from

>>>>>>> ethiopicdidascal00platrich/page/%20n146/mode/1up <https://
>>>>>>> archive.org/details/%20ethiopicdidascal00platrich/page/%20n146/

>>>>>>> mode/1up>>>. I don't know whether Alex would prefer Unicode (as
>>>>>>> above), or SVG of the original? Or even copy/paste that Unicode
>>>>>>> into Inkscape for SVG? (See option attached.) Hope that helps.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Monday, 11 May 2026 at 04:28:15 UTC+1 b...@bobrk.com <http://

>>>>>>> bobrk.com/><http://bobrk.com/ <http://bobrk.com/>>wrote:

>>>>>>>> bobrk.com/><http://bobrk.com/ <http://bobrk.com/>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    Hi, I've found some time/inspiration to return to working on
>>>>>>>>    this, sorry for the long delay. It's a lot more complex than I'd
>>>>>>>>    imagined, but I'm working through it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    Thanks,
>>>>>>>>    Bob
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    On Monday, August 25, 2025 at 7:13:59 PM UTC-7 Bob Kenyon wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>        Thanks, I will…
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>        Bob
>>>>>>>>        > On Aug 25, 2025, at 18:47, Alex Cabal
>>>>>>>>        <al...@standardebooks.org <http://standardebooks.org/

>>>>>>>> ><http://standardebooks.org/ <http://standardebooks.org/>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>        >
>>>>>>>>        > OK, if you want to continue working on it, I'll return
>>>>>>>>        the project to 'in progress' status. Please make sure to
>>>>>>>>        push some commits to your repo from time to time to keep the
>>>>>>>>        project active.
>>>>>>>>        >
>>>>>>>>        >> On 8/25/25 8:37 PM, Bob R. Kenyon wrote:
>>>>>>>>        >> Alex had emailed me a while ago about this book, which I
>>>>>>>>        hadn’t worked on for a while and he wanted to consider it
>>>>>>>>        abandoned and put it back on the wanted list.
>>>>>>>>        >> I would like to work on it again, if that’s ok. I don’t
>>>>>>>>        see any mentions of it being picked up on the list, nor do I
>>>>>>>>        see it on the wanted list, so if it’s ok, I’ld like to dig
>>>>>>>>        back in.
>>>>>>>>        >> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>        >> Bob
>>>>>>>>        >>>> On Apr 4, 2025, at 17:34, Hendrik Kaiber

>>>>>>>> <hendrik....@gmail.com <http://gmail.com/><http://

>>>>>>>> ><http://standardebooks.org/ <http://standardebooks.org/>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>>>        >>> This is how we should do it. I don't know what ereader
>>>>>>>>        support
>>>>>>>>        >>> would be like... Can someone test on a Kindle and Kobo?
>>>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>>>        >>> If support is poor, this is conceivably something that we
>>>>>>>>        >>> could convert to SVG during build, much like we convert
>>>>>>>>        mathML
>>>>>>>>        >>> to SVG.
>>>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>>>        >>> On April 4, 2025 1:24:49 PM CDT, "'Anthony J.
>>>>>>>> Bentley' via
>>>>>>>>        >>> Standard Ebooks" <standar...@googlegroups.com

>>>>>>>> <http://googlegroups.com/><http://googlegroups.com/ <http://

>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com/>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>>>        >>> To be more specific, the phrase would be written in HTML
>>>>>>>>        >>> as 協力山成玉同心坭變金, and writing-mode: vertical-rl
>>>>>>>>        >>> would be applied to it.
>>>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>>>        >>> On April 4, 2025 12:04:05 PM MDT, "'Anthony J. Bentley'
>>>>>>>>        >>> via Standard Ebooks" <standar...@googlegroups.com

>>>>>>>> <http://googlegroups.com/><http://googlegroups.com/ <http://

>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com/>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>>>        >>> CSS writing-mode exists for this purpose.
>>>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>>>        >>>https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/
>>>>>>>> <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/><https://
>>>>>>>> developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/ <https://
>>>>>>>> developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/>>
>>>>>>>>        <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/
>>>>>>>> <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/><https://
>>>>>>>> developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/ <https://
>>>>>>>> developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/>>>
>>>>>>>>        >>> writing-mode <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/
>>>>>>>> <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/><https://

>>>>>>>> developer.mozilla.org/en-US/ <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/>>
>>>>>>>> <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/ <https://
>>>>>>>> developer.mozilla.org/en-US/><https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
>>>>>>>> US/ <http://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/>>>

>>>>>>>>        >>> docs/Web/CSS/writing-mode>
>>>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>>>        >>>
>>>>>>>>        >>> On April 4, 2025 10:56:36 AM MDT, 'Weijia Cheng' via
>>>>>>>>        >>> Standard Ebooks <standar...@googlegroups.com <http://

>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com/><http://googlegroups.com/ <http://

>>>>>>>> ><http://googlegroups.com/ <http://googlegroups.com/>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com <http://
>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com/><http://googlegroups.com/ <http://

>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com/>>>.
>>>>>>>> >>> To view this discussionvisithttps://

>>>>>>>> groups.google.com/ <visithttps://groups.google.com/><https://
>>>>>>>> groups.google.com/ <https://groups.google.com/>>

>>>>>>>> d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://

>>>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/d/>>
>>>>>>>> msgid/standardebooks/67d18166->
>>>>>>>> daf8-4c91-998f-0b24e12d5a17n%40googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/><http://40googlegroups.com/
>>>>>>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>>

>>>>>>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/ <http://40googlegroups.com/
>>>>>>>> ><http://40googlegroups.com/ <http://40googlegroups.com/>>>?

>>>>>>>>        utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>>>>>>>>        >> --
>>>>>>>>        >> You received this message because you are subscribed to
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>>>>>>>>        >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>>>>>>>>        from it, send an email to
>>>>>>>> standardebook...@googlegroups.com <http://googlegroups.com/

>>>>>>>> ><http://googlegroups.com/ <http://googlegroups.com/>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com <http://
>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com/><http://googlegroups.com/ <http://

>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com/>>>.
>>>>>>>> >> To view this discussionvisithttps://groups.google.com/

>>>>>>>> <visithttps://groups.google.com/><https://groups.google.com/

>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/>>
>>>>>>>> d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://

>>>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

>>>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>>
>>>>>>>> standardebooks/FDAEB9D5-B8C7-4CE5-95B5-
>>>>>>>> A9ABBDEF09EE%40bobrk.com <http://40bobrk.com/

>>>>>>>> ><http://40bobrk.com/ <http://40bobrk.com/>><http://40bobrk.com/
>>>>>>>> <http://40bobrk.com/><http://40bobrk.com/ <http://40bobrk.com/
>>>>>>>> >>> <https://
>>>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/FDAEB9D5- <http://

>>>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/FDAEB9D5-><http://

>>>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/FDAEB9D5- <http://
>>>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/FDAEB9D5->><https://
>>>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/FDAEB9D5- <http://

>>>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/FDAEB9D5-><http://

>>>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/FDAEB9D5- <http://
>>>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/FDAEB9D5->>>
>>>>>>>> B8C7-4CE5-95B5-A9ABBDEF09EE%40bobrk.com

>>>>>>>> <http://40bobrk.com/><http://40bobrk.com/ <http://40bobrk.com/>>?
>>>>>>>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40bobrk.com/?
>>>>>>>> <http://40bobrk.com/?><http://40bobrk.com/? <http://40bobrk.com/?>>

>>>>>>>>        utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>>>>>>>>        >
>>>>>>>>        > --
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>>>>>>>>        > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>>>>>>>>        from it, send an email to
>>>>>>>> standardebook...@googlegroups.com <http://googlegroups.com/

>>>>>>>> ><http://googlegroups.com/ <http://googlegroups.com/>>.

>>>>>>>> > To view this discussionvisithttps://groups.google.com/

>>>>>>>> d/ <visithttps://groups.google.com/d/><https://
>>>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/ <https://groups.google.com/d/>>
>>>>>>>> msgid/standardebooks/21a582f0-626d-49c5-ad8b-
>>>>>>>> e64c7d66af55%40standardebooks.org
>>>>>>>> <http://40standardebooks.org/><http://40standardebooks.org/

>>>>>>>> <http://40standardebooks.org/>><https://
>>>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/21a582f0-626d-49c5-
>>>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

>>>>>>>> standardebooks/21a582f0-626d-49c5-><http://groups.google.com/d/
>>>>>>>> msgid/standardebooks/21a582f0-626d-49c5- <http://
>>>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/21a582f0-626d-49c5->>
>>>>>>>> ad8b-e64c7d66af55%40standardebooks.org
>>>>>>>> <http://40standardebooks.org/><http://40standardebooks.org/

>>>>>>>> <http://40standardebooks.org/>>>.
>>>>>>>>        >
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    --     You received this message because you are subscribed
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>>>>>>>> unsubscribe><http://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/
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David

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May 12, 2026, 1:32:36 PMMay 12

to Standard Ebooks

@Bob - you could use that SVG I attached to my earlier reply as a starting point. In Inkscape, you would select all the text, then apply the `Path > Object to Path` option from the menu. It will then need a bit of massaging for SE norms. If you haven't produced one before, then the "multi-colour maps SVG how-to" remains useful, even if not all the detail is relevant for this image, and I've bookmarked this previous discussion which includes helpful pointers (there are others like that in Google Groups, too: searching on "SVGOMG" would likely find them). Beyond that, comparing to an SVG in a previous production is always a help, I find.

Bob R. Kenyon

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May 12, 2026, 5:00:03 PMMay 12

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Thanks for the input!

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Bob R. Kenyon

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Jun 12, 2026, 9:17:50 PM (4 days ago) Jun 12

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Ok, I’m trying to get these SVG files to work. I have all the correct semantication:

but there’s an issue when looking at them in dark mode in Apple Books.

Some of the SVGs invert fine but others stay dark and are unreadable. As far as I can tell the SVGs are in the correct format—no extra metadata:

Any ideas here? Am I doing it right?

Thanks,

Bob

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/FFAC807D-C6B8-42D4-8CBD-43C6F33ECFC4%40bobrk.com.

David

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Jun 13, 2026, 5:28:36 AM (4 days ago) Jun 13

to Standard Ebooks

It looks like you've got everything correct in the SVGs. Note that "SVGs are converted to PNG for the compatible epub" (see previous discussion), so if that's what you're using in Apple Books, it's not an SVG.

Others around here know far more about this than I do, though, so if further help is needed hopefully it will be forthcoming.

Bob R Kenyon

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Jun 13, 2026, 10:00:45 AM (3 days ago) Jun 13

to standar...@googlegroups.com, Ebooks Standard

Yeah, since some of them invert and others don’t, I’ll try redoing the SVGs, which ironically are starting as PNG screenshots.

Thanks,

Bob

On Jun 13, 2026, at 02:28, David <djre...@gmail.com> wrote:

It looks like you've got everything correct in the SVGs. Note that "SVGs are converted to PNG for the compatible epub" (see previous discussion), so if that's what you're using in Apple Books, it's not an SVG.

Others around here know far more about this than I do, though, so if further help is needed hopefully it will be forthcoming.

On Saturday, 13 June 2026 at 02:17:50 UTC+1 Bob wrote:

Ok, I’m trying to get these SVG files to work. I have all the correct semantication:

<Screenshot 2026-06-12 at 18.11.07.png>

but there’s an issue when looking at them in dark mode in Apple Books.

<Screenshot 2026-06-12 at 18.08.26.png>
<Screenshot 2026-06-12 at 18.08.15.png>
<Screenshot 2026-06-12 at 18.08.02.png>
<Screenshot 2026-06-12 at 18.07.53.png>

Some of the SVGs invert fine but others stay dark and are unreadable. As far as I can tell the SVGs are in the correct format—no extra metadata:

<Screenshot 2026-06-12 at 18.10.09.png>

Any ideas here? Am I doing it right?

Thanks,
Bob

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<Screenshot 2026-06-12 at 18.11.07.png>
<Screenshot 2026-06-12 at 18.08.26.png>
<Screenshot 2026-06-12 at 18.08.15.png>
<Screenshot 2026-06-12 at 18.08.02.png>
<Screenshot 2026-06-12 at 18.07.53.png>
<Screenshot 2026-06-12 at 18.10.09.png>

Alex Cabal

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Jun 13, 2026, 12:02:02 PM (3 days ago) Jun 13

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SVGs are inverted automatically only if they have the
`epub:type="se:image.color-depth.black-on-transparent"` semantic. Add
that semantic to the `<img>` and they will invert automatically.

On 6/13/26 9:00 AM, Bob R Kenyon wrote:
> Yeah, since some of them invert and others don’t, I’ll try redoing the
> SVGs, which ironically are starting as PNG screenshots.
>
> Thanks,
> Bob
>
>> On Jun 13, 2026, at 02:28, David <djre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> It looks like you've got everything correct in the SVGs. Note that
>> "SVGs are converted to PNG for the compatible epub" (see previous

>> discussion <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/ZeL1AvgGKqM/
>> m/N0LRxQpPAwAJ>), so if that's what you're using in Apple Books, it's

>> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.

>> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>> standardebooks/872fe6ce-3abd-4d95-b312-

>> f60ee6cc05e3n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>> standardebooks/872fe6ce-3abd-4d95-b312-
>> f60ee6cc05e3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

>> <Screenshot 2026-06-12 at 18.11.07.png>
>> <Screenshot 2026-06-12 at 18.08.26.png>
>> <Screenshot 2026-06-12 at 18.08.15.png>
>> <Screenshot 2026-06-12 at 18.08.02.png>
>> <Screenshot 2026-06-12 at 18.07.53.png>
>> <Screenshot 2026-06-12 at 18.10.09.png>
>

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Bob R. Kenyon

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Jun 14, 2026, 12:39:44 PM (2 days ago) Jun 14

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Yes, that’s why it’s confusing. All the illustrations have the tag and some invert and others do not. To me that points at the SVGs.

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