[Next Project] Theodore Roosevelt: An Autobiography by Theodore Roosevelt

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Brad Taylor

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Sep 2, 2022, 4:38:17 PM9/2/22
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I'd like to work on this next. I can use the production of The Rough Riders as a reference.

One interesting thing I notice right away is that there are multiple appendices throughout the book, and they are not consolidated at the end; instead, they appear immediately after the chapters to which they are relevant, and there are multiple appendices with the same name ("Appendix A": example 1, example 2, example 3). I'm thinking of handling this by naming the files "appendix-7-a.xhtml" (where "7" is the chapter number and "a" is the appendix name) and making sure the spine order keeps the appendix after it's associated chapter.

Alex Cabal

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Sep 2, 2022, 7:14:02 PM9/2/22
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OK, I think that makes sense.

It looks like this transcription is missing a lot of formatting. It's
going to be a lot of careful reading to make sure we get all of the
formatting back in here.

The title should be "An Autobiography" with the author as "Theodore
Roosevelt".

Vince, can you manage this with Bruce reviewing?

On 9/2/22 3:38 PM, Brad Taylor wrote:
> I'd like to work on this next. I can use the production of /The Rough
> Riders/ as a reference.
> PG transcription <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3335>
> Page scans <https://archive.org/details/theorooseauto00roosrich>
>
> One interesting thing I notice right away is that there are multiple
> appendices throughout the book, and they are not consolidated at the
> end; instead, they appear immediately after the chapters to which they
> are relevant, and there are multiple appendices with the same name
> ("Appendix A": example 1
> <https://archive.org/details/theorooseauto00roosrich/page/256/mode/2up>,
> example 2
> <https://archive.org/details/theorooseauto00roosrich/page/312/mode/2up>,
> example 3
> <https://archive.org/details/theorooseauto00roosrich/page/560/mode/2up>). I'm
> thinking of handling this by naming the files "appendix-7-a.xhtml"
> (where "7" is the chapter number and "a" is the appendix name) and
> making sure the spine order keeps the appendix after it's associated
> chapter.
>
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Vince

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Sep 2, 2022, 7:23:08 PM9/2/22
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Will do.

B Keith

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Sep 2, 2022, 8:43:15 PM9/2/22
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Sure thing

B

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Brad Taylor

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Sep 6, 2022, 9:37:57 AM9/6/22
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bat...@hotmail.com

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Sep 19, 2022, 10:16:47 AM9/19/22
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In both the page scans and the transcription, there are multiple places where text is in square brackets. It seems like these fall into a few categories (listed below). What is the best way to handle each?
  1. Additional information that seems like it could have been a footnote (examples: page 124 "this was the first information..." and page 213 "as regards active naval..."). I think the right thing to do with these is to change them to endnotes.
  2. Redactions (examples: page 492 "So-and-so’s"). Should I just leave these as-is?
  3. Paraphrasing (examples: page 569 "are not forbidden" and "the public welfare is threatened..."). Should I just leave these as-is?

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Brad Taylor

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Sep 19, 2022, 10:17:05 AM9/19/22
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Vince Rice

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Sep 19, 2022, 10:52:52 AM9/19/22
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I don’t know what did or didn’t happen on the list, but I received eleven duplicate emails. :)

For the first examples, I agree those make sense as endnotes. 

For the second, I would be inclined to use our normal 3em dash for an obscured name.

For the last, those are odd. I guess I would leave them unless Alex has a better idea.

All should be Editorial commits.

Alex Cabal

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Sep 19, 2022, 11:54:47 AM9/19/22
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I would not change so-and-so to a three-em-dash, because it's inserted
by the author with brackets to distinguish it from the actual letter
contents. We'd wind up with a bracketed three-em-dash which I don't
think is clearly obvious what is meant.

In general, bracketed insertions are put there on purpose by the author
and we should leave them alone.

On 9/19/22 9:52 AM, Vince Rice wrote:
> I don’t know what did or didn’t happen on the list, but I received
> eleven duplicate emails. :)
>
> For the first examples, I agree those make sense as endnotes.
>
> For the second, I would be inclined to use our normal 3em dash for an
> obscured name.
>
> For the last, those are odd. I guess I would leave them unless Alex has
> a better idea.
>
> All should be Editorial commits.
>
>> On Sep 19, 2022, at 9:17 AM, Brad Taylor <btay...@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>> In both the page scans and the transcription, there are multiple
>> places where text is in square brackets. It seems like these fall into
>> a few categories (listed below). What is the best way to handle each?
>>
>> 1. Additional information that seems like it could have been a
>> footnote (examples: page 124
>> <https://archive.org/details/theorooseauto00roosrich/page/124/mode/1up>
>> "this was the first information..." and page 213
>> <https://archive.org/details/theorooseauto00roosrich/page/213/mode/1up>
>> "as regards active naval..."). I think the right thing to do with
>> these is to change them to endnotes.
>> 2. Redactions (examples: page 492
>> <https://archive.org/details/theorooseauto00roosrich/page/492/mode/1up>
>> "So-and-so’s"). Should I just leave these as-is?
>> 3. Paraphrasing (examples: page 569
>> <https://archive.org/details/theorooseauto00roosrich/page/569/mode/1up>
>> "are not forbidden" and "the public welfare is threatened...").
>> Should I just leave these as-is?
>>
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Brad Taylor

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Sep 19, 2022, 3:28:46 PM9/19/22
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Apologies for the multiple messages; I'm not sure what was happening on my end but the messages instantly showed as deleted.
As for the bracketed text, I will leave all of those as they are in the original text. I'm ready to start proofreading now.

Brad Taylor

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Sep 21, 2022, 2:16:40 PM9/21/22
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Cover art proposal: Theodore Roosevelt by John Singer Sargent. The PD proof comes from the page scans themselves, page 352.
207698fg.jpg

Vince

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Sep 21, 2022, 2:37:15 PM9/21/22
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Looks good. The version on Wikimedia might be a better choice, it’s a little lighter and less saturated so you can see more detail in his outfit.


On Sep 21, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Brad Taylor <btay...@outlook.com> wrote:

Cover art proposal: Theodore Roosevelt by John Singer Sargent. The PD proof comes from the page scans themselves, page 352.
<207698fg.jpg>

Brad Taylor

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Sep 21, 2022, 2:54:43 PM9/21/22
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Thanks! I'll use the Wikimedia version.

Alex Cabal

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Sep 21, 2022, 3:37:07 PM9/21/22
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Can't beat John Singer Sargent!

On 9/21/22 1:37 PM, Vince wrote:
> Looks good. The version on Wikimedia
> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Theodore_Roosevelt_by_John_Singer_Sargent,_1903.jpg> might
> be a better choice, it’s a little lighter and less saturated so you can
> see more detail in his outfit.
>
>
>> On Sep 21, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Brad Taylor <btay...@outlook.com
>> <mailto:btay...@outlook.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Cover art proposal:Theodore Roosevelt by John Singer Sargent
>> <https://artvee.com/dl/theodore-roosevelt/>. The PD proof comes from
>> the page scans themselves,page 352
>> <https://archive.org/details/theorooseauto00roosrich/page/352/mode/2up>.
>> <207698fg.jpg>
>
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Brad Taylor

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Sep 28, 2022, 1:11:17 PM9/28/22
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Should any of the following hyphenated words be modernized? (se modernize-spelling doesn't detect them)
horseback-riding -> horseback riding
rifle-range -> rifle range
mountain-lion -> mountain lion
wrestling-mat -> wrestling mat
billiard-table -> billiard table
shoulder-blade -> shoulder blade
blood-vessels -> blood vessels
boxing-gloves -> boxing gloves
chair-leg -> chair leg

Alex Cabal

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Sep 28, 2022, 1:12:33 PM9/28/22
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You can if you like but it's not required. `se modernize-spelling` only
removes dashes, it doesn't replace them with spaces.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/240D4F93-013D-4C9A-A11F-26C14C859A54%40letterboxes.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
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>
>
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Brad Taylor

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Nov 10, 2022, 11:22:11 PM11/10/22
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This is ready for review at https://github.com/btaylor8/theodore-roosevelt_an-autobiography. Alex, you were definitely correct about the transcription missing a lot of formatting!

B Keith

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Nov 11, 2022, 11:05:51 AM11/11/22
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Great. I will try to get to it today but it might be tomorrow…

Bruce

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B Keith

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Nov 12, 2022, 6:40:56 PM11/12/22
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Ok I posted a few small issues. What a  big project: congrats.

But I have some question for the group at large. There are several appendices inline with the chapters. My  reaction would be to make them a lower level:

h2: VII: The War of America the Unready
h3: Appendicies to Chapter VII
h4: Appendix A
h4: Appendix B

But the scans make them seem like the Chapter and the Main Appendices title are both <h2>s.  

Also I have generally put any drama formatted bits in <section epub:type="z3998:drama> even if they are not drama per se. Is this the Standard way? It is what I have suggested in the review.

And lastly, could someone smarter than me look at the css. It looks OK to me but it also seems a bit over done in spots. But darned if I can think of how to simplify it.


Bruce

Vince

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Nov 12, 2022, 6:55:21 PM11/12/22
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I’m about to be AFK for the evening, but re drama, yes, that is the SE way, or at least how I’ve been told to do it multiple times in the past. I just had this come up, e.g., in a Maupassant story; part of it “looked like” drama, part of it didn’t; the part that did I formatted as drama, with the standard SE drama CSS, etc.

A lot of the existing local CSS would then be unnecessary, but it would be replaced by the standard SE drama CSS, so still plenty of CSS. :)

Alex Cabal

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Nov 12, 2022, 6:59:12 PM11/12/22
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The important point is that <section> implies some kind of document
division. You can have the z3998:drama semantic on any element - it
should only be <section> if <section> is in fact appropriate.

Re. appendices, typically appendices appear at the very end of a book
and are top level divisions. If these are attached to a middle chapter
then you can put them at a level below, i.e. h3, but an inbetween header
is unnecessary unless there's some additional text content at that level.

On 11/12/22 5:40 PM, B Keith wrote:
> Ok I posted a few small issues. What a  big project: congrats.
>
> But I have some question for the group at large. There are several
> appendices inline with the chapters. My  reaction would be to make them
> a lower level:
>
> h2: VII: The War of America the Unready
> h3: Appendicies to Chapter VII
> h4: Appendix A
> h4: Appendix B
>
> But the scans make them seem like the Chapter and the Main Appendices
> title are both <h2>s.
>
> Also I have generally put any drama formatted bits in <section
> epub:type="z3998:drama> even if they are not drama per se. Is this the
> Standard way? It is what I have suggested in the review.
>
> And lastly, could someone smarter than me look at the css. It looks OK
> to me but it also seems a bit over done in spots. But darned if I can
> think of how to simplify it.
>
>
> Bruce
>
>> On Nov 11, 2022, at 9:05 AM, B Keith <bois...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:bois...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Great. I will try to get to it today but it might be tomorrow…
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>>> On Nov 10, 2022, at 9:22 PM, Brad Taylor <btay...@outlook.com
>>> <mailto:btay...@outlook.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is ready for review
>>> athttps://github.com/btaylor8/theodore-roosevelt_an-autobiography
>>> <https://github.com/btaylor8/theodore-roosevelt_an-autobiography>.
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/5ae8753d-9b4c-488e-80df-e0ea7e539cd9n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/5ae8753d-9b4c-488e-80df-e0ea7e539cd9n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>>>
>>>
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>>
>
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Brad Taylor

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Nov 14, 2022, 11:15:29 AM11/14/22
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  1. Changing the headings of the appendices down a level causes lint errors: s-085 "<h#> element found in a <section> or a <article> at an unexpected level. Hint: Headings not in the title page start at <h2>. If this work has parts, should this header be <h3> or higher?" I'm not sure of the best way to handle this; should I just add exceptions to the se-lint-ignore file? Or should I further restructure the headings to avoid the lint errors in the first place?
  2. As for the drama question, I have included the original text of the parts of the book in question below; they are very brief and fit in with the surrounding narrative, so to me these are not different sections, and I'm leaning toward not adding the `<section epub:type="z3998:drama >` tags.
ch3-drama.png
ch9-drama.png

Vince

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Nov 14, 2022, 12:39:32 PM11/14/22
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Re drama, correct, that was Alex’s point—you don’t have to use a section to use the drama tags and CSS. You can just create a table for the dialog and give it the drama tag (this happens in epigraphs on a frequent basis). I’m not saying you should, just that you can; whether you should is between you and Bruce. :)

On Nov 14, 2022, at 10:15 AM, Brad Taylor <btay...@outlook.com> wrote:
  1. Changing the headings of the appendices down a level causes lint errors: s-085 "<h#> element found in a <section> or a <article> at an unexpected level. Hint: Headings not in the title page start at <h2>. If this work has parts, should this header be <h3> or higher?" I'm not sure of the best way to handle this; should I just add exceptions to the se-lint-ignore file? Or should I further restructure the headings to avoid the lint errors in the first place?
  2. As for the drama question, I have included the original text of the parts of the book in question below; they are very brief and fit in with the surrounding narrative, so to me these are not different sections, and I'm leaning toward not adding the `<section epub:type="z3998:drama >` tags.
<ch3-drama.png>

Brad Taylor

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Nov 14, 2022, 4:27:20 PM11/14/22
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I found a way to restructure the appendices so they are at the `<h3>` level and `se lint` is happy, but it involves splitting the appendices into different files and changing the semantics to `z3998:subchapter` instead of `appendix`, so I made a new branch "appendix-restructuring." Can someone take a look and see what you think? It may be a little too much but it produces a nice structure to the ToC.
2022-11-14 16_26_31-Table of Contents — Mozilla Firefox.png

B Keith

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Nov 14, 2022, 6:45:57 PM11/14/22
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Looks good to me. One might go with epub:type=“appendix" and ignore lint but I think we will leave that for Alex to decide.

Please add the  drama tags to the tables, update the css as per the SEMOS and we should be almost there.

B
On Nov 14, 2022, at 2:27 PM, Brad Taylor <btay...@outlook.com> wrote:

I found a way to restructure the appendices so they are at the `<h3>` level and `se lint` is happy, but it involves splitting the appendices into different files and changing the semantics to `z3998:subchapter` instead of `appendix`, so I made a new branch "appendix-restructuring." Can someone take a look and see what you think? It may be a little too much but it produces a nice structure to the ToC.
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Alex Cabal

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Nov 14, 2022, 10:40:59 PM11/14/22
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If they're appendices then they need that semantic. It's fine to add
ignore exceptions in cases like these.

On 11/14/22 5:45 PM, B Keith wrote:
> Looks good to me. One might go with epub:type=“appendix" and ignore lint
> but I think we will leave that for Alex to decide.
>
> Please add the  drama tags to the tables, update the css as per the
> SEMOS and we should be almost there.
>
> B
>> On Nov 14, 2022, at 2:27 PM, Brad Taylor <btay...@outlook.com
>> <mailto:btay...@outlook.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I found a way to restructure the appendices so they are at the `<h3>`
>> level and `se lint` is happy, but it involves splitting the appendices
>> into different files and changing the semantics to `z3998:subchapter`
>> instead of `appendix`, so I made a new branch
>> "appendix-restructuring." Can someone take a look and see what you
>> think? It may be a little too much but it produces a nice structure to
>> the ToC.
>> <2022-11-14 16_26_31-Table of Contents — Mozilla Firefox.png>
>>
>> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 12:39:32 PM UTC-5 Vince wrote:
>>
>> Re drama, correct, that was Alex’s point—you don’t have to use a
>> section to use the drama tags and CSS. You can just create a table
>> for the dialog and give it the drama tag (this happens in
>> epigraphs on a frequent basis). I’m not saying you /should/, just
>> that you /can/; whether youshould is between you and Bruce. :)
>>
>>> On Nov 14, 2022, at 10:15 AM, Brad Taylor <btay...@outlook.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 1. Changing the headings of the appendices down a level causes
>>> lint errors: s-085 "<h#> element found in a <section> or a
>>> <article> at an unexpected level. Hint: Headings not in the
>>> title page start at <h2>. If this work has parts, should this
>>> header be <h3> or higher?" I'm not sure of the best way to
>>> handle this; should I just add exceptions to the
>>> se-lint-ignore file? Or should I further restructure the
>>> headings to avoid the lint errors in the first place?
>>> 2. As for the drama question, I have included the original text
>> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/adf974ad-0962-4d5a-9c73-098eb4d0848cn%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/adf974ad-0962-4d5a-9c73-098eb4d0848cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>> <2022-11-14 16_26_31-Table of Contents — Mozilla Firefox.png>
>
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Brad Taylor

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Nov 14, 2022, 11:17:28 PM11/14/22
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Thanks for all the input! This has definitely been a more challenging production than my previous ones.
Changing the semantics back to epub:type="appendix" did not create any lint errors and maintains the same ToC structure (I must have done something wrong earlier when I thought it needed changed to z3998:subchapter).
I added the <section epub:type="z3998:drama"> tags & the associated CSS from the SEMoS.
All of the GitHub issues have been addressed, and this is ready for review again (this time with some notes on exceptions with se modernize-spelling :-) ) : https://github.com/btaylor8/theodore-roosevelt_an-autobiography
  • se modernize-spelling wants to change "The Life-Saving Society" to "The Lifesaving Society," but I rejected this because it is the proper name of an organization
  • se modernize-spelling wants to change "any body" to "anybody" in Chapter 13, line 67, but "any body" is the correct usage in this case

B Keith

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Nov 15, 2022, 9:55:09 AM11/15/22
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As far as I can tell this should be ready for you Alex.

Bruce

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Alex Cabal

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Nov 15, 2022, 1:40:08 PM11/15/22
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I think we still need a little work:

- Foreword: Remove dateline semantic from the footer, the foreword is
not a letter

- chapter 3: As I mentioned earlier, you should not use a <section> to
offset drama. <section> means a document division that should appear in
the ToC. What you are actually looking for is <blockquote>, with drama
semantics.

- Same in chapter 9.

- Appendix 7b: we should not use <hr/> to separate blockquotes. There
are no lines in print, and a series of blockquotes does necessarily mean
they are thematically different.

- Appendix 7b: When using the elision class in the letters, you should
center the dots. You also can't use <span>s like that; <span> must be
contained by a block level element like <p>. Just use <p> instead. The
style you copied is for poetry only so it must be adapted for prose.

- Appendix 7b: line 60 has an empty <span> wrapping the initials. It
doesn't look like it's doing anything. You should remove any such empty
wrapping elements.

The table in chapter 1 needs a little more work:

- The entire thing is not a table; the only tabular data is the sum of
costs. Rather, the entire thing should be a blockquote which contains a
table.

- It's missing italics in the header and small caps in the signatures.
It should also have some padding.

- <hr/> is not appropriate in this table. <hr/> does not mean "I want to
put a line here", <hr/> means "thematic break". If you want a line that
is not a thematic break, you can use CSS, for example, td{ border-top:
1px solid } (using the appropriate selector of course)

- Numbers must be right-aligned because we're adding sums. You must also
have tabular-nums CSS:
https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.7.0/single-page#8.19.1

- Use tfoot for the total/subtotal area. It should be aligned as it is
in print.

- The table ends after the footer containing the sums. The rest of the
text can just be <p>s and signatures.

- There is a possible typo in the print: "Minnister"?

On 11/15/22 8:55 AM, B Keith wrote:
> As far as I can tell this should be ready for you Alex.
>
> Bruce
>
>> On Nov 14, 2022, at 9:17 PM, Brad Taylor <btay...@outlook.com
>> <mailto:btay...@outlook.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for all the input! This has definitely been a more challenging
>> production than my previous ones.
>> Changing the semantics back to epub:type="appendix" did not create any
>> lint errors and maintains the same ToC structure (I must have done
>> something wrong earlier when I thought it needed changed to
>> z3998:subchapter).
>> I added the <section epub:type="z3998:drama"> tags & the associated
>> CSS from the SEMoS.
>> All of the GitHub issues have been addressed, and this is ready for
>> review again (this time with some notes on exceptions with se
>> modernize-spelling :-) ) :
>> https://github.com/btaylor8/theodore-roosevelt_an-autobiography
>> <https://github.com/btaylor8/theodore-roosevelt_an-autobiography>
>>
>> * se modernize-spelling wants to change "The Life-Saving Society" to
>> "The Lifesaving Society," but I rejected this because it is the
>> proper name of an organization
>> * se modernize-spelling wants to change "any body" to "anybody" in
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/adf974ad-0962-4d5a-9c73-098eb4d0848cn%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/adf974ad-0962-4d5a-9c73-098eb4d0848cn%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/adf974ad-0962-4d5a-9c73-098eb4d0848cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/adf974ad-0962-4d5a-9c73-098eb4d0848cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>> >> <2022-11-14 16_26_31-Table of Contents — Mozilla Firefox.png>
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> > Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>> it, send
>> > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
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>> >
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/5F38B015-3C8B-42A2-AF9C-AD7B5A851F79%40gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/5F38B015-3C8B-42A2-AF9C-AD7B5A851F79%40gmail.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/5F38B015-3C8B-42A2-AF9C-AD7B5A851F79%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/5F38B015-3C8B-42A2-AF9C-AD7B5A851F79%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>>
>>
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Alex Cabal

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Nov 15, 2022, 1:41:00 PM11/15/22
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Also, I see the print edition has photographs which we can include, as
this is a nonfiction autobiography. Can you include the illustrations?
See the manual for formatting, and you'll have to add an LoI

On 11/15/22 8:55 AM, B Keith wrote:
> As far as I can tell this should be ready for you Alex.
>
> Bruce
>
&g