[Next project] The Bridal Wreath by Sigrid Undset

[Ben Steinberg]

I happen to be reading this for the first time, thought to check for it in Standard Ebooks, then found it in the wanted list. If no  one else is working on it, I'd be delighted to.

[Alex Cabal]

Great, that one would be a good start.

The book is divided into "books", check the manual for how to format
that. There are two translators so make sure to use the correct options
for `se create-draft`.

Make sure to read the Standard Ebooks Manual of Style before starting,
as you won't know what to fix if you haven't read the standards. In
particular, please closely review the semantics, high level patterns,
and typography sections:

https://standardebooks.org/manual

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography

The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:

https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step

This page on common issues in older books may be useful:

https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-working-on-public-domain-ebooks

Please email often if you have any questions at all. Our standards are
well-established so there is probably already a standard for formatting
whatever problem you've encountered.

When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github repository so
that I can mark you as having started.

Have fun! :)

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[Ben Steinberg]

Thanks! I've started -- see https://github.com/bensteinberg/sigrid-undset_the-bridal-wreath_charles-archer_j-s-scott

This is my second production; I worked on https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/samuel-r-delany/the-jewels-of-aptor a couple of years ago. I think I was signed up to the mailing list with a different email address at the time.

I've made a first complete proofreading pass, and will have a few questions shortly.

I've also found a candidate for a cover image, J. Th. Lundbye's "Winter landscape with Northern Zealand character", 1841: https://nivaagaard.dk/en/the-collection/lundbye-j-th-2/

I propose to use a cropped section of the painting. I don't know if this is desirable, but the image is large enough to accommodate three, possibly overlapping, cropped sections, so that it would be possible for this and the other two books of the Kristin Lavransdatter trilogy to have a common source for their covers.

Ben

[Alex Cabal]

OK, David will manage this with Vince reviewing.

> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics <https://
> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics>
>
> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-
> patterns <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-
> structural-patterns>
>
> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography <https://
> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography>

>
> The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:
>
> https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-

> step <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-
> by-step>

>
> This page on common issues in older books may be useful:
>
> https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-

> working-on-public-domain-ebooks <https://standardebooks.org/
> contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-working-on-public-domain-ebooks>

>
> Please email often if you have any questions at all. Our standards are
> well-established so there is probably already a standard for formatting
> whatever problem you've encountered.
>
> When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github repository so
> that I can mark you as having started.
>
> Have fun! :)
>
>
> On 6/12/25 1:33 PM, Ben Steinberg wrote:
> > I happen to be reading this for the first time, thought to check
> for it
> > in Standard Ebooks, then found it in the wanted list. If no  one
> else is
> > working on it, I'd be delighted to.
> >
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> send
> > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
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> > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
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> msgid/standardebooks/00e1b5e0-6f6e-4226->
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> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

>
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[David]

Hi Ben - I've added that artwork to the DB and assigned it to this project. It would still be good to see your cover mock-up. (I don't think the cart and horses disqualifies it for a novel set in the 14th C!)

Although I can't find a _written_ policy restricting artworks to a single title/project, I know that this has been refused in the past. (And we have a good number of LARGE original artworks that have had only a fraction of it cropped for cover art.) We wouldn't, therefore, be contemplating re-using this artwork.

David / Fife, UK

[Alex Cabal]

No duplicates for artwork, with one or two very rare exceptions (Three
Musketeers)

On 7/2/25 9:13 AM, David wrote:
> Hi Ben - I've added that artwork to the DB and assigned it to this
> project. It would still be good to see your cover mock-up. (I don't
> think the cart and horses disqualifies it for a novel set in the 14th C!)
>

> Although I can't find a _written_ policy <https://standardebooks.org/
> manual/1.8.2/single-page#10.3.3> restricting artworks to a single title/

> project, I know that this has been refused in the past. (And we have a
> good number of LARGE original artworks that have had only a fraction of
> it cropped for cover art.) We wouldn't, therefore, be contemplating re-

> using this <https://standardebooks.org/artworks/johan-thomas-lundbye/
> winter-landscape-with-northern-zealand-character> artwork.

>
> David / Fife, UK
>
> On Wednesday, 2 July 2025 at 00:02:33 UTC+1 Ben Steinberg wrote:
>
> Thanks! I've started -- see https://github.com/bensteinberg/sigrid-

> undset_the-bridal-wreath_charles-archer_j-s-scott <https://
> github.com/bensteinberg/sigrid-undset_the-bridal-wreath_charles-
> archer_j-s-scott>

>
> This is my second production; I worked on https://
> standardebooks.org/ebooks/samuel-r-delany/the-jewels-of-aptor

> <https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/samuel-r-delany/the-jewels-of-
> aptor> a couple of years ago. I think I was signed up to the mailing

> list with a different email address at the time.
>
> I've made a first complete proofreading pass, and will have a few
> questions shortly.
>
> I've also found a candidate for a cover image, J. Th. Lundbye's
> "Winter landscape with Northern Zealand character", 1841: https://

> nivaagaard.dk/en/the-collection/lundbye-j-th-2/ <https://
> nivaagaard.dk/en/the-collection/lundbye-j-th-2/>

>
> I propose to use a cropped section of the painting. I don't know if
> this is desirable, but the image is large enough to accommodate
> three, possibly overlapping, cropped sections, so that it would be
> possible for this and the other two books of the Kristin
> Lavransdatter trilogy to have a common source for their covers.
>
> Ben
>

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> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Ben Steinberg]

Great, thank you both. I'll prepare a cover mock-up and organize a few questions.

[Ben Steinberg]

Here's the current version of the cover - let me know what you think. When I looked at the painting closely, I thought the cart might be a sleigh, which is not anachronistic and appears in the book, but I'm happy to use some other part of the painting.

[David]

That looks just fine, Ben. I might be inclined to adjust it so that the "sleigh" isn't sitting so closely on top of the SE title box (either backing out the crop, or with a vertical adjustment: I think you're not too limited by the boundaries of the original). Final call is yours, of course!

[Ben Steinberg]

Thanks! And sorry for the lag here. I've adjusted the cover image and committed it -- see https://github.com/bensteinberg/sigrid-undset_the-bridal-wreath_charles-archer_j-s-scott/blob/main/src/epub/images/cover.svg -- but let me know if you think it needs further adjustment.

My pending questions about this book are about the use of em dashes and ellipses. The original text uses mostly em dashes but sometimes ellipses as suspension points in expository prose, as well as in dialogue. The practice of the PG transcribers was to convert most but not all such ellipses to em dashes. I've been following the PG transcribers' lead here, but I could imagine converting the remaining ellipses to em dashes. Do you have a recommendation? I'm looking for a definitive example, but there are several different flavors of pause, both within and between sentences. Some of the inter-sentence examples might be better as ellipse-with-period -- and speaking of which, se typogrify took sequences of four periods and made them period, word joiner, hair space, word joiner, ellipse --  which looks odd on my ebook reader. Should those (sentence-ending) ellipses be "wj hairsp wj ellipse hairsp period" instead?

[Alex Cabal]

I would leave it as it is in the transcription. It's possible that PG
simply used a different edition that punctuated differently.

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[Ben Steinberg]

Thanks again. I think this is ready for a look: https://github.com/bensteinberg/sigrid-undset_the-bridal-wreath_charles-archer_j-s-scott

[Vince]

OK, I’ll get to this in the next day or three.

[Vince]

As demonstrated in what you noticed about elision vs em-dashes, the scans you used were of a different edition than used by PG. The edition they used would appear to be this one. This is most noticeable in the “Part X” vs “Book X,” and, as you saw, the differences in punctuation.

But they’re also different in other ways, e.g. where the thematic breaks are placed, in some of their capitalization, e.g. “New Year’s Eve” vs “New Year’s eve,” and so on.

The problem is that now we have a mixture of the two editions: we have both sets of thematic breaks, and other things that are part one of the editions, part of the other.

I don’t know how Alex feels about that, so I’m asking him here. My choice would be to either use the edition that PG used and confirm to those scans, or conform to the chosen scans, meaning use “Part X” instead of “Book X,” use only the thematic scans from that edition, etc. If Alex is fine with a mixture of the two, then great; I would still think we should only have one set of thematic breaks, but that’s up to him.

[Vince]

Sorry, forgot another question for Alex. In both of the editions, the chapters do not have page breaks (this is the second one in a row I’ve had like that). Ben has the chapters in their own files, which will of course have page breaks. Do you care about preserving that look/format, or is it OK to have the page breaks?

[Alex Cabal]

We should already assume that PG editions are possibly blended, they
often do that anyway. We also obviously make our own changes. So in
general I don't have strong feelings about blended editions.

For minor things like capitalization or punctuation I don't think it's a
big deal.

Things like thematic breaks might make reading easier and are also
easier to normalize, so you could go ahead and select whichever edition
you think has better thematic breaks and normalize our edition to that.
Then you would use those scans in the metadata/colophon.

On 8/18/25 2:54 PM, Vince wrote:
> As demonstrated in what you noticed about elision vs em-dashes, the

> scans you used <https://archive.org/details/bridalwreath0001sigr> were

> of a different edition than used by PG. The edition they used would

> appear to be this one <https://archive.org/details/
> bridalwreath0000carc>. This is most noticeable in the “Part X” vs “Book

> X,” and, as you saw, the differences in punctuation.
>
> But they’re also different in other ways, e.g. where the thematic breaks
> are placed, in some of their capitalization, e.g. “New Year’s Eve” vs
> “New Year’s eve,” and so on.
>

> The problem is that now we have a mixture of the two editions: we have /
> both/ sets of thematic breaks, and other things that are part one of the

> editions, part of the other.
>
> I don’t know how Alex feels about that, so I’m asking him here. My
> choice would be to either use the edition that PG used and confirm to
> those scans, or conform to the chosen scans, meaning use “Part X”
> instead of “Book X,” use only the thematic scans from that edition, etc.
> If Alex is fine with a mixture of the two, then great; I would still
> think we should only have one set of thematic breaks, but that’s up to him.
>
>
>> On Aug 18, 2025, at 1:50 PM, Vince <vr_se...@letterboxes.org> wrote:
>>
>> OK, I’ll get to this in the next day or three.
>>
>>> On Aug 18, 2025, at 12:46 PM, Ben Steinberg
>>> <benstei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks again. I think this is ready for a look: https://github.com/
>>> bensteinberg/sigrid-undset_the-bridal-wreath_charles-archer_j-s-scott
>

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[Alex Cabal]

Page breaks are fine.

On 8/18/25 3:03 PM, Vince wrote:
> Sorry, forgot another question for Alex. In both of the editions, the
> chapters do not have page breaks (this is the second one in a row I’ve
> had like that). Ben has the chapters in their own files, which will of
> course have page breaks. Do you care about preserving that look/format,
> or is it OK to have the page breaks?
>
>> On Aug 18, 2025, at 2:54 PM, Vince <vr_se...@letterboxes.org> wrote:
>>
>> As demonstrated in what you noticed about elision vs em-dashes, the

>> scans you used <https://archive.org/details/bridalwreath0001sigr> were

>> of a different edition than used by PG. The edition they used would

>> appear to be this one <https://archive.org/details/

>> bridalwreath0000carc>. This is most noticeable in the “Part X” vs

>> “Book X,” and, as you saw, the differences in punctuation.
>>
>> But they’re also different in other ways, e.g. where the thematic
>> breaks are placed, in some of their capitalization, e.g. “New Year’s
>> Eve” vs “New Year’s eve,” and so on.
>>
>> The problem is that now we have a mixture of the two editions: we

>> have /both/ sets of thematic breaks, and other things that are part

>> one of the editions, part of the other.
>>
>> I don’t know how Alex feels about that, so I’m asking him here. My
>> choice would be to either use the edition that PG used and confirm to
>> those scans, or conform to the chosen scans, meaning use “Part X”
>> instead of “Book X,” use only the thematic scans from that edition,
>> etc. If Alex is fine with a mixture of the two, then great; I would
>> still think we should only have one set of thematic breaks, but that’s
>> up to him.
>

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[Vince]

Really nice work on a first production, Ben. I noted a few minor things in the review issue.

[Ben Steinberg]

Thanks! I'll work on the items in the review issue, and I will take a look at the other scan to compare thematic breaks.