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[Next project] Short Fiction, by Thomas Hardy

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David

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Apr 19, 2025, 1:02:05 PMApr 19
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I think it's time for a slightly more substantial project, and I've been looking at Hardy's short stories.

The parameters aren't greatly different from Trollope's: there are, in total, 46 short stories. Of those, 37 appeared in four different collections. Of the remaining nine, 8 were published in various periodicals; one was left in manuscript and was only published in 1992 under copyright. And one of those 8 was a collaboration. I don't know that all of those eight will be available. I could be transcribing a few...

There is a site which has all of these (including those "uncollected" 9) in DOCX files, but I'm not sure of the copyright status of some (a few a clearly from a 1992 OUP edition). Much, though is at PG. These are the main collections, with scans and Wikipedia links:


All the data I've got so far for all stories is compiled in this spreadsheet.

I assume we go with "ordered by date of first publication". But I would recommend one exception: the stories in A Group of Noble Dames now form a sequence (not matching their original publication over 13 years). I suggest it makes most sense to retain the collection ordering for these stories.

At a guesstimate, I reckon this whole production will be in the region of 320K words (so in that respect, substantially shorter than the Trollope collection).

There may well be further matters to refine, but how does this look to be getting on with? (This will be my 50th(!), so thought I'd attempt something a little bit special!)

David / Fife, UK

Alex Cabal

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Apr 19, 2025, 2:53:05 PMApr 19
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OK, sounds good. If some are not on PG that's fine, short stories aren't
too hard to verify against page scans.

Sounds fine on collection ordering, that would be something to note in
the production notes metadata.

Congrats on getting to 50!

Emma will manage this with Lukas reviewing.

On 4/19/25 12:02 PM, David wrote:
> I think it's time for a slightly more substantial project, and I've been
> looking at Hardy's short stories.
>
> The parameters aren't greatly different from Trollope's: there are, in
> total, 46 short stories. Of those, 37 appeared in four different
> collections. Of the remaining nine, 8 were published in various
> periodicals; one was left in manuscript and was only published in 1992
> under copyright. And one of those 8 was a collaboration. I don't know
> that all of those eight will be available. I could be transcribing a few...
>
> There is a site <https://www.hardysociety.org/life/short-stories/> which
> has all of these (including those "uncollected" 9) in DOCX files, but
> I'm not sure of the copyright status of some (a few a clearly from a
> 1992 OUP edition). Much, though is at PG. These are the main
> collections, with scans and Wikipedia links:
>
> # Wessex Tales by Thomas Hardy | Project Gutenberg <https://
> www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3056>
>
> * *IA*: Wessex tales : Hardy, Thomas <https://archive.org/details/
> wessextales00hard_2/page/n7/mode/2up>
> * *Wp*: /Wessex Tales/ <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wessex_Tales>
>
> # A Group of Noble Dames by Thomas Hardy | Project Gutenberg <https://
> www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3049>
>
> * *IA*: A group of noble dames : Hardy, Thomas <https://archive.org/
> details/bwb_KR-403-427/page/n5/mode/2up>
> * *Wp*: /A Group of Noble Dames/ <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> A_Group_of_Noble_Dames>
>
> # Life's Little Ironies by Thomas Hardy | Project Gutenberg <https://
> www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3047>
>
> * *IA*: Lifes Little Ironies : Hardy Thomas <https://archive.org/
> details/dli.ernet.13659/page/n3/mode/2up>
> * *Wp*: /Life's Little Ironies/ <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> Life%27s_Little_Ironies>
>
> # A Changed Man, and Other Tales by Thomas Hardy | Project Gutenberg
> <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3058>
>
> * *IA*: A changed man, … other tales: Thomas Hardy <https://
> archive.org/details/changedmanwaitin0000thom_t8q2/page/n7/mode/2up?
> view=theater>
> * *Wp*: /A Changed Man and Other Tales/ <https://en.wikipedia.org/
> wiki/A_Changed_Man_and_Other_Tales>
>
> There are further complications. Hardy moved stories around from
> collection to collection in later editions, so matching stories to
> collections can be a challenge. Fortunately, there is a definitive Hardy
> bibliography <https://archive.org/details/bibliographicals0000unse_l6i7/
> page/n5/mode/2up> which explains all this, and includes dates of first
> publication for all stories.
>
> All the data I've got so far for all stories is compiled in this
> spreadsheet <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FeGDnuZ-
> d2Vlq8Fw29x5c3no5LvmNIIi3lP-e5Wq5tI/edit?usp=sharing>.
>
> I assume we go with "ordered by date of first publication". But I would
> recommend one exception: the stories in /A Group of Noble Dames/ now
> form a sequence (not matching their original publication over 13 years).
> I suggest it makes most sense to retain the *collection* ordering for
> these stories.
>
> At a guesstimate, I reckon this whole production will be in the region
> of 320K words (so in that respect, substantially shorter than the
> Trollope collection).
>
> There may well be further matters to refine, but how does this look to
> be getting on with? (This will be my 50th(!), so thought I'd attempt
> something a little bit special!)
>
> David / Fife, UK
>
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David

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Apr 19, 2025, 3:11:03 PMApr 19
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Super! The repo will be: https://github.com/dajare/thomas-hardy_short-fiction (will 404 just now, but will be live soon).

Gustavo Brooks

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Apr 19, 2025, 11:59:22 PMApr 19
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Here are some scans I was able to find: 

David

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Apr 20, 2025, 4:17:22 AMApr 20
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Thanks for sending those along, Gustavo - that's a real help!

D.

David

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Apr 20, 2025, 9:05:57 AMApr 20
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And just to update (in case anyone else is watching), I've now got scans also for "Destiny and a Blue Cloak", and "The Doctor's Legend". I've updated the spreadsheet.

That leaves only four: "The Thieves Who Couldn't Help Sneezing" and  "Our Exploits at West Foley" have eluded me (the former is extremely rare; a copy is known to be in the Bodleian, but it's not online). If anyone can find "Our Exploits...", do let me know! :)

"The Unconquerable" is not PD. That leaves only "The Spectre of the Real" which is a co-authorship with Florence Henniker, and it is debated/disputed the nature of the contribution of each to that story, so I'm incline to set it aside, even if it could be found in PD form.

We're in pretty good shape, then, I think.
Message has been deleted

David

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Apr 21, 2025, 1:18:35 PMApr 21
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[Grrr! Why oh why does Google Groups randomly delete messages? Reconstructing lost auto-deletes is a frustration. :/]

A couple questions as I prepare to "split" —

(1) The transcriptions include Hardy's prefaces for those collections (Wessex Tales | Noble Dames | A Changed Man). Since our production is ordered by first-publication (and these prefaces aren't so interesting, imo), I was thinking to cut them. Is that the right way to go? If retained, where would they be located??

(2) The exception (noted in first post) is A Group of Noble Dames, and it has a structural issue. It is divided into two "parts" (before and after dinner). If the stories are in individual files, then `part-1.xhtml` and `part-2.xhtml` files would also be needed ... and what would be their data-parent? Perhaps `a-group-of-noble-dames.xhtml` as a kind of title-page? Or is this set of stories best managed in a single file?

Thanks for help with these!

D.
p.s. I'm keeping that spreadsheet up to date, but my primary working listing is here, fwiw.

Alex Cabal

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Apr 21, 2025, 1:37:07 PMApr 21
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I only interact with it via email, maybe try that to avoid losing work?

On 4/21/25 12:18 PM, David wrote:
> [Grrr! Why oh why does Google Groups randomly delete messages?
> Reconstructing lost auto-deletes is a frustration. :/]
>
> A couple questions as I prepare to "split" —
>
> (1) The transcriptions include Hardy's prefaces for those collections
> (Wessex Tales <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/3056/pg3056-
> images.html#chap01> | Noble Dames <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/
> epub/3049/pg3049-images.html> | A Changed Man <https://
> www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/3058/pg3058-images.html>). Since our
> production is ordered by first-publication (and these prefaces aren't so
> interesting, imo), I was thinking to cut them. Is that the right way to
> go? If retained, where would they be located??
>
> (2) The exception (noted in first post) is /A Group of Noble Dames/, and
> it has a structural issue. It is divided into two "parts" <https://
> archive.org/details/bwb_KR-403-427/page/n10/mode/1up> (before and after
> dinner). If the stories are in individual files, then `part-1.xhtml` and
> `part-2.xhtml` files would also be needed ... and what would be /their/
> data-parent? Perhaps `a-group-of-noble-dames.xhtml` as a kind of title-
> page? Or is this set of stories best managed in a single file?
>
> Thanks for help with these!
>
> D.
> p.s. I'm keeping that spreadsheet up to date, but my primary working
> listing is here <https://www.sudalyph.org/seci/th-sf.php>, fwiw.
>
> --
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> e692-4e35-8f93-88076dda8ce3n%40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

Alex Cabal

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Apr 23, 2025, 5:15:19 PMApr 23
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Emma, thoughts?

On 4/21/25 12:18 PM, David wrote:
> [Grrr! Why oh why does Google Groups randomly delete messages?
> Reconstructing lost auto-deletes is a frustration. :/]
>
> A couple questions as I prepare to "split" —
>
> (1) The transcriptions include Hardy's prefaces for those collections
> (Wessex Tales <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/3056/pg3056-
> images.html#chap01> | Noble Dames <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/
> epub/3049/pg3049-images.html> | A Changed Man <https://
> www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/3058/pg3058-images.html>). Since our
> production is ordered by first-publication (and these prefaces aren't so
> interesting, imo), I was thinking to cut them. Is that the right way to
> go? If retained, where would they be located??
>
> (2) The exception (noted in first post) is /A Group of Noble Dames/, and
> it has a structural issue. It is divided into two "parts" <https://
> archive.org/details/bwb_KR-403-427/page/n10/mode/1up> (before and after
> dinner). If the stories are in individual files, then `part-1.xhtml` and
> `part-2.xhtml` files would also be needed ... and what would be /their/
> data-parent? Perhaps `a-group-of-noble-dames.xhtml` as a kind of title-
> page? Or is this set of stories best managed in a single file?
>
> Thanks for help with these!
>
> D.
> p.s. I'm keeping that spreadsheet up to date, but my primary working
> listing is here <https://www.sudalyph.org/seci/th-sf.php>, fwiw.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
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> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

Emma Sweeney

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Apr 23, 2025, 7:33:21 PMApr 23
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1.I agree, these prefaces don't seem interesting. You can cut them.

2. I don't think you need the parts at all. You could just have the short stories appear in order, like in the transcription.


Emma

David Reimer

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Apr 24, 2025, 8:32:13 AMApr 24
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Thanks, Emma - seems a wee shame to lose those "parts" from the "Noble
Dames". However, neither Purdy[1], nor Martin Ray[2] makes any mention
of this arrangement, and a survey of the stories doesn't reveal any
added value, so perhaps not so great a loss.

Glad you agree about the prefaces. :)

And a small update: since my initial listing, I've discovered that
"Blue Jimmy—The Horse Stealer" appeared under F.E. Dugdale's name, and
Hardy contributed revisions (it seems), so another one to exclude. I'm
only lacking a PD copy of "Our Exploits at West Poley" (a novella that
appeared subsequently under its own cover in 1952) as
would-include-but-can't-find.

While I'm at it: there are "transcriptions" of Hardy's stories on,
e.g., this page:
https://www.darlynthomas.com/hardyshortstories.htm
But other sites, too, have put texts of these stories online. For the
four uncollected stories that we will include ("How I Built Myself a
House", "Destiny and a Blue Cloak", "The Doctor's Legend", and "Old
Mrs. Chundle"), were I to use any of these randoms as a basis for the
SE text, how do they get credited? It is clear in all four cases that
the stories *are* PD, and my understanding (from the PG info[3]) is
that they're fair game.

Thanks! D.

[1]: https://archive.org/details/bibliographicals0000unse_l6i7
[2]: https://archive.org/details/thomashardytextu0000raym
[3]: https://gutenberg.org/help/no_sweat_copyright.html

Alex Cabal

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Apr 24, 2025, 2:30:29 PMApr 24
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You can easily include the parts. Think of you you would structure these
stories if they were in a single file. The structure would be:

<section id="a-group-of-noble-dames">
<section id="a-group-of-noble-dames-part-1">
<article id="the-first-countess-of-wessex">
...

<section id="a-group-of-noble-dames-part-2"
...

Then break them up into files with the appropriate data-parent attributes:

a-group-of-noble-dames.xhtml:

<section id="a-group-of-noble-dames">
<h2>...

a-group-of-noble-dames-part-1.xhtml:

<section data-parent="a-group-of-noble-dames"
id="a-group-of-noble-dames-part-1">
<h3>...

the-first-countess-of-wessex.xhtml:

<article data-parent="a-group-of-noble-dames-part-1"
id="the-first-countess-of-wessex">
<h4>...

If build-toc (or recompose-epub) creates the right output then you've
done it right.

Also, I think it would be worth it to keep the prefaces, as they were
written by the author himself. Usually it's prefaces by someone other
than the author which are not especially interesting (i.e. info that can
be found in Wikipedia). In this case, I would put them as a <section>
before the main <section> of the story, without a half title inbetween,
since we just had a title page before it.

David Reimer

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Apr 24, 2025, 2:39:42 PMApr 24
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Okay - I feel reasonably confident about the files for the "Noble
Dames", less certain about the Prefaces. Since the *collections* of
stories they preface no longer exist in our edition (with the
exception of "Dames") and are now scattered, it's difficult to know
what to put them *before*. Just group all three together at the
beginning of the collection? Otherwise, their placement becomes
somewhat arbitrary....
> > Glad you agree about the prefaces. :) . . .

Alex Cabal

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Apr 24, 2025, 2:40:48 PMApr 24
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Ah I see, they were prefaces for entire collections. In that case yes
let's cut them.

David Reimer

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Apr 24, 2025, 2:56:42 PMApr 24
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That's right, only for the collections. And even in Hardy's lifetime,
he couldn't stop tinkering with them—so there could be three different
versions (stories coming and going). I'm good with omitting the
prefaces!!

D.

On Thu, 24 Apr 2025 at 19:40, Alex Cabal wrote:
>
> Ah I see, they were prefaces for entire collections. In that case yes
> let's cut them.
>
> On 4/24/25 1:39 PM, David Reimer wrote:
> > Okay - I feel reasonably confident about the files for the "Noble
> > Dames", less certain about the Prefaces. Since the *collections* of
> > stories they preface no longer exist in our edition (with the
> > exception of "Dames") and are now scattered, it's difficult to know
> > what to put them *before*. Just group all three together at the
> > beginning of the collection? Otherwise, their placement becomes
> > somewhat arbitrary....
> >
> > On Thu, 24 Apr 2025 at 19:30, Alex Cabal wrote:
> >> . . .

David

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Apr 24, 2025, 2:59:38 PMApr 24
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And another question (and then I think I'm pretty much able to get on with it, and this will go quiet for a while):

PG retains years of composition at the end of the stories where the collections do:

___th1.png
For which PG has:

___th2.png
I assume there should be deleted, just like "The End" - yes?

D.

Alex Cabal

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Apr 24, 2025, 3:59:18 PMApr 24
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Yes

On 4/24/25 1:59 PM, David wrote:
> And another question (and then I think I'm pretty much able to get on
> with it, and this will go quiet for a while):
>
> PG retains years of composition at the end of the stories where the
> collections do:
>
> ___th1.png
> For which PG has:
>
> --
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David

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May 13, 2025, 11:42:07 AM (9 days ago) May 13
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This is just a note to: (a) keep the project alive (it is!); and (b) to say that I'm travelling internationally until 22 May (just over a week), and will have very little opportunity for checking emails or Google Groups. I will do my best, but there will be delays, I'm confident.
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