[Next Project] Olney Hymns by John Newton

[Cecil New]

I propose to take on John Newton’s “Olney Hymns” which is composed of 348 poems meant to be sung (thus “hymns”) plus three poems not intended to be sung.

This work is in Volume 3 of “The Works of Rev. John Newton”, beginning on page 306 of volume 3.

Gutenberg: None
Source:  https://archive.org/details/worksofrevjohnne03newt/page/306/mode/2up
EPUB: from OCR’d pages and PDF are available at:
https://archive.org/details/worksofrevjohnne03newt/mode/2up
GitHub: https://github.com/mandolyte/john-newton_olney-hymns (not created yet)
Cover:

1. Something with a ship in a storm, soon to be wrecked would be ideal since that figures prominently in John Newton’s life.
2. Or perhaps a portrait? Here are a couple of possibilities:

• https://www.ccel.org/ccel/newton/olneyhymns.Book1.ACT.h1_120.html
• https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:JohnNewton_edited.jpg

1. Or of the Olney church: https://cowperandnewtonmuseum.org.uk/amazing-grace-250-virtual-exhibition/

Because of the sheer number of poems, each of which will take a few minutes of work, will take some time; but it doesn’t seem to be difficult, especially with the excellent coverage found at:
https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/how-to-structure-and-style-large-poetic-productions. Plus, I suspect I’ll be able to automate some of the repetitive work with some scripts once I have done a few.

I do have some questions about how to structure the book if I get the go-ahead (see below). Here is a snippet from the scan’s ToC:

Questions for manager:

1. Should I keep the numbered stanzas?

2. Book I is arranged by bible book order, sort of like chapters. Here is an example: https://archive.org/details/worksofrevjohnne03newt/page/438/mode/2up?q=CXX. Another example, using the well known poem “Amazing Grace” at https://archive.org/details/worksofrevjohnne03newt/page/352/mode/2up shows the following:

   1. It’s in Book I

   2. It’s in the bible book of 1 Chronicles

   3. The title is preceded by the Roman numeral XLI

   4. The title is “Faith’s Review and Expectation”

   5. The title is followed by a scripture reference “Ch. xvii. 16, 17.”

   6. The stanzas are numbered

   7. In some (not this one) there will be a footnote, which are generally other scripture references.

3. How should all the title elements be marked up?

4. There is an index of first lines. Should this be retained?

5. Since these are hymns, meant to be sung, many transcriptions include the meter. For example: https://www.ccel.org/ccel/newton/olneyhymns.Book1.ACT.h1_120.html. While determining the meter is pretty easy, I would love to include the meter in the text to make it easier on the reader to find a tune to go with the words.

[Alex Cabal]

Wikipedia says this was cowritten with William Cowper. Should this ebook
have two authors?

If not, did Newton publish any other poetry? If so we need to compile an
omnibus spreadsheet first to see how we might organize things.

On 12/21/25 9:16 PM, Cecil New wrote:
> I propose to take on John Newton’s “Olney Hymns” which is composed of
> 348 poems meant to be sung (thus “hymns”) plus three poems not intended
> to be sung.
>
> This work is in Volume 3 of “The Works of Rev. John Newton”, beginning
> on page 306 of volume 3.
>

> *Gutenberg*: None
> *Source*:  https://archive.org/details/worksofrevjohnne03newt/page/306/
> mode/2up
> *EPUB*: from OCR’d pages and PDF are available at:
> https://archive.org/details/worksofrevjohnne03newt/mode/2up
> *GitHub*: https://github.com/mandolyte/john-newton_olney-hymns (not
> created yet)
> *Cover*:
>
> 1. Something with a ship in a storm, soon to be wrecked would be ideal

> since that figures prominently in John Newton’s life.

> 2. Or perhaps a portrait? Here are a couple of possibilities:
>
> * https://www.ccel.org/ccel/newton/olneyhymns.Book1.ACT.h1_120.html
> * https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:JohnNewton_edited.jpg
>
> 1. Or of the Olney church: https://cowperandnewtonmuseum.org.uk/

> amazing-grace-250-virtual-exhibition/
>
>
> Because of the sheer number of poems, each of which will take a few
> minutes of work, will take some time; but it doesn’t seem to be
> difficult, especially with the excellent coverage found at:
> https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/how-to-structure-and-
> style-large-poetic-productions. Plus, I suspect I’ll be able to automate
> some of the repetitive work with some scripts once I have done a few.
>
> I do have some questions about how to structure the book if I get the
> go-ahead (see below). Here is a snippet from the scan’s ToC:

> Screenshot 2025-12-21 10.14.18 PM.png
>
> Questions for manager:
>

> 1.

>
> Should I keep the numbered stanzas?
>

> 2.

>
> Book I is arranged by bible book order, sort of like chapters. Here
> is an example: https://archive.org/details/worksofrevjohnne03newt/

> page/438/mode/2up?q=CXX <https://archive.org/details/
> worksofrevjohnne03newt/page/438/mode/2up?q=CXX>. Another example,

> using the well known poem “Amazing Grace” at https://archive.org/

> details/worksofrevjohnne03newt/page/352/mode/2up <https://
> archive.org/details/worksofrevjohnne03newt/page/352/mode/2up>shows
> the following:
>
> 1.

>
> It’s in Book I
>

> 2.

>
> It’s in the bible book of 1 Chronicles
>

> 3.

>
> The title is preceded by the Roman numeral XLI
>

> 4.

>
> The title is “Faith’s Review and Expectation”
>

> 5.

>
> The title is followed by a scripture reference “Ch. xvii. 16, 17.”
>

> 6.
>
> The stanzas are numbered
>
> 7.

>
> In some (not this one) there will be a footnote, which are
> generally other scripture references.
>

> 3.

>
> How should all the title elements be marked up?
>

> 4.

>
> There is an index of first lines. Should this be retained?
>

> 5.

>
> Since these are hymns, meant to be sung, many transcriptions include
> the meter. For example: https://www.ccel.org/ccel/newton/

> olneyhymns.Book1.ACT.h1_120.html <https://www.ccel.org/ccel/newton/
> olneyhymns.Book1.ACT.h1_120.html>. While determining the meter is

> pretty easy, I would love to include the meter in the text to make
> it easier on the reader to find a tune to go with the words.
>

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[Cecil New]

William Cowper did contribute. Per the preface, these are indicated with the letter "C" after the roman numeral.

Snippet:

 

Example: https://archive.org/details/worksofrevjohnne03newt/page/308/mode/2up 

So two authors are appropriate, altho I could leave out the ones that Cowper contributed. Any thoughts on one way or the other?

Before I put together the spreadsheet, I'll do some more research to see if there are any more poems not in this volume of his works. 

Unless the template for poetry is different, I will just the one you announced earlier this year.

[Alex Cabal]

OK, so two authors is probably the way to go.

Follow the instructions here for creating a new spreadsheet
https://standardebooks.org/contribute/spreadsheets

Once you're done, send me a link and make sure to make the sheet
publicly visible. Thanks!

On 12/22/25 2:42 PM, Cecil New wrote:
> William Cowper did contribute. Per the preface, these are indicated with
> the letter "C" after the roman numeral.
>
> Snippet:

> Screenshot from 2025-12-22 15-34-12.png
>
> Example: https://archive.org/details/worksofrevjohnne03newt/page/308/
> mode/2up
>
> So two authors are appropriate, altho I could leave out the ones that
> Cowper contributed. Any thoughts on one way or the other?
>
> Before I put together the spreadsheet, I'll do some more research to see
> if there are any more poems not in this volume of his works.
>
> Unless the template for poetry is different, I will just the one you
> announced earlier this year.
>
>
>
>

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[Cecil New]

Alex, just getting started on the spreadsheet and I wanted to share it with you early to confirm a few things. This spreadsheet will take some time to produce given the nearly 350 entries required.

Here is link to my spreadsheet with a few entries:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18gPLa_7Hkucu1mSeIxHcQeln8hm1z4VXIrK4UAyHjv0/edit?usp=sharing 

Firstly, I want to double check that this is suitable for SE.

Secondly, I have found what I’d consider an authoritative website on John Newton’s works, including his poetry. Link: https://www.johnnewton.org/Groups/222577/The_John_Newton/new_menus/Hymns/OH_Book_1/OH_Book_1.aspx

For transcriptions the “John Newton Project” provides some, but not all of them. The ones they provide actually have Newton’s hand-written pages. For others they link to 

1. Google Books: https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=bks&q=olney+hymns&num=10 

2. CCEL: https://ccel.org/ccel/newton/olneyhymns/olneyhymns.Book1.html 

Thirdly, you will notice I have added a few custom columns:

• Column O indicates whether the poem was written by William Cowper or not

• Columns P, Q, and R capture the organization of the Hymns in the scan at the Internet Archive.

• Column S has the first line of the hymn, which is often used to index them. For example here.

• Column T has the meter, which while not in the original scan, is easily computed (just the number of syllables per line) and is a convenience for the reader who wishes to find a tune to go with the words. For example, here is a website dedicated to public domain tunes: link.

Thanks for any advice, feedback.

Cecil

[Alex Cabal]

It looks like you deleted some columns, Word Count, SE Category, First
Published In, Alternate Titles etc. All columns should be there by default.

SE Category auto-fills based on word count. If it's obviously short
poetry then you can leave the word count empty. Let's also titlecase the
work titles as it's easier to read.

You also added non-default columns before the end divider, those should
all go to the right of the divider so we're clear what's a default
column and what's not.

Things like meter, first lie, reference section, etc. are not useful for
the purposes of this spreadsheet, which is categorizing a corpus and
deciding if duplicates exist. We want to avoid clutter because others
will be referencing this in the future, and the more unusual columns
there are, the less clear it is what's going on to a stranger reading
this 5 years from now.

You might find those columns useful for you as you produce the book, and
that's fine. In that case, I suggest you finish the default spreadsheet
first, then make a private copy for yourself and go back to add those
special columns while you work on the ebook.

On 12/29/25 1:10 PM, Cecil New wrote:
> Alex, just getting started on the spreadsheet and I wanted to share it
> with you early to confirm a few things. This spreadsheet will take some
> time to produce given the nearly 350 entries required.
>
>
> Here is link to my spreadsheet with a few entries:
>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/
> d/18gPLa_7Hkucu1mSeIxHcQeln8hm1z4VXIrK4UAyHjv0/edit?usp=sharing

> <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/
> d/18gPLa_7Hkucu1mSeIxHcQeln8hm1z4VXIrK4UAyHjv0/edit?usp=sharing>

>
>
> Firstly, I want to double check that this is suitable for SE.
>
>
> Secondly, I have found what I’d consider an authoritative website on
> John Newton’s works, including his poetry. Link: https://
> www.johnnewton.org/Groups/222577/The_John_Newton/new_menus/Hymns/

> OH_Book_1/OH_Book_1.aspx <https://www.johnnewton.org/Groups/222577/
> The_John_Newton/new_menus/Hymns/OH_Book_1/OH_Book_1.aspx>

>
>
> For transcriptions the “John Newton Project” provides some, but not all
> of them. The ones they provide actually have Newton’s hand-written
> pages. For others they link to
>

> 1.
>
> Google Books: https://www.google.com/search?
> tbo=p&tbm=bks&q=olney+hymns&num=10 <https://www.google.com/search?
> tbo=p&tbm=bks&q=olney+hymns&num=10>
>
> 2.
>
> CCEL: https://ccel.org/ccel/newton/olneyhymns/olneyhymns.Book1.html

> <https://ccel.org/ccel/newton/olneyhymns/olneyhymns.Book1.html>
>
>
> Thirdly, you will notice I have added a few custom columns:
>

> *

>
> Column O indicates whether the poem was written by William Cowper or not
>

> *

>
> Columns P, Q, and R capture the organization of the Hymns in the
> scan at the Internet Archive.
>

> *

>
> Column S has the first line of the hymn, which is often used to

> index them. For example here <https://archive.org/details/
> worksofrevjohnne03newt/page/n10/mode/1up>.
>
> *

>
> Column T has the meter, which while not in the original scan, is
> easily computed (just the number of syllables per line) and is a
> convenience for the reader who wishes to find a tune to go with the
> words. For example, here is a website dedicated to public domain

> tunes: link <https://www.pdhymns.com/index.htm>.

>
>
> Thanks for any advice, feedback.
> Cecil
> On Monday, December 22, 2025 at 3:44:27 PM UTC-5 Alex Cabal wrote:
>
> OK, so two authors is probably the way to go.
>
> Follow the instructions here for creating a new spreadsheet

> https://standardebooks.org/contribute/spreadsheets <https://
> standardebooks.org/contribute/spreadsheets>

>
> Once you're done, send me a link and make sure to make the sheet
> publicly visible. Thanks!
>
> On 12/22/25 2:42 PM, Cecil New wrote:
> > William Cowper did contribute. Per the preface, these are
> indicated with
> > the letter "C" after the roman numeral.
> >
> > Snippet:
> > Screenshot from 2025-12-22 15-34-12.png
> >
> > Example: https://archive.org/details/worksofrevjohnne03newt/

> page/308/ <https://archive.org/details/worksofrevjohnne03newt/
> page/308/>

> > mode/2up
> >
> > So two authors are appropriate, altho I could leave out the ones
> that
> > Cowper contributed. Any thoughts on one way or the other?
> >
> > Before I put together the spreadsheet, I'll do some more research
> to see
> > if there are any more poems not in this volume of his works.
> >
> > Unless the template for poetry is different, I will just the one you
> > announced earlier this year.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
> > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

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[Cecil New]

I forgot to mention in my note that I had hidden some of the columns so I could see the columns of interest. I didn't delete them. Will proceed.

Thanks!

Cecil

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[Cecil New]

Just a quick note on spreadsheet progress... It is slow going, but per the poetry “how-to”, I had expectations set. 

I have completed Book I (of 3) of the Olney Hymns (proper). After finding a number of transcription errors (or just where they took liberties SE would not), I bought a cheap ebook on Amazon to see if it was better, but it turns out that whoever compiled the book used the same transcription I am using and had the same issues. Keep in mind these errors/liberties are just for the title and header info. About 30% of the time I have to copy/paste from the scan, which, fortunately, works pretty well.

I am also sending emails to CCEL who hosts the transcription of every mistake I find. I have timed myself several times and I can hardly do better than two minutes per row in the spreadsheet (I am simultaneously keeping some of my own columns that will help later).

Pressing on!