[First Project] Enough Rope by Dorothy Parker

[Giacomo]

Hey!

It's not on the wanted list, but I would like to do this collection of poems by Dorothy Parker: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/68353

There's a reference scan on archive.org too: https://archive.org/details/enoughropepoems0000park

[Alex Cabal]

Hi Giacomo, for things like poetry and shorts we typically need to do
research on the author's bibliography to see if we need to create an
omnibus. We need all of their poems listed, and in which collection
they're published. If there are overlaps or any uncollected poems (like
ones published in magazines but not collections) then we need an omnibus.

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[Giacomo]

Hi Alex,

this is her first collection of poems. I don't think a poetry omnibus can be done as she has two other collections published in 1928 and 1931 (not yet out of copyright), plus other previously unpublished poems that were published in the 90s.

[Vince]

The decision isn’t determined by what is available. We have other omnibus collections where part of the collection is not yet PD; we add to them as the remaining works hit PD status. So, if the decision was an omnibus (not enough information to determine yet), then the 1928 ones could be added next year (i.e. in a couple of weeks), and the 1931 ones when they become PD.

But this why we need a spreadsheet. A list of all of her poems, what book or magazine they were published in (if they were), the dates published, etc.

[Giacomo]

Ah, I see.

In that case, "The Uncollected Dorothy Parker" (available for borrowing at https://archive.org/details/uncollecteddorot0000park/page/244/mode/2up - also known as "Not Much Fun" in a different edition), published in 1999, is a collection of previously unpublished poems. It also has a "Complete Chronology" section with original publishing dates for *all* of Parker's poems (pages 244-254). I know there is a second edition from 2009 that includes some additional unpublished poems, but I cannot find it online. Maybe this initial list is exhaustive enough? I could then compile a spreadsheet from it.

[Alex Cabal]

It might work. The idea is to see if she has uncollected poetry or not.
If so then an omnibus is required.

>> > There's a reference scan on archive.org <http://archive.org/>
>> > too: https://archive.org/details/enoughropepoems0000park

>> <https://archive.org/details/enoughropepoems0000park>
>
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[Giacomo]

This took me a bit more time than expected as life got in the way. I've collected and processed all the poems in the chronology present in "Not Much Fun".

I've created this Markdown table from the resulting data: https://gist.github.com/mexicat/d459bdd96e0309ec31a855b2e1662528

It should be enough for additional analysis.

Let me know how you prefer to proceed.

[Alex Cabal]

OK, great work. So now the question is, are there either:

1) Any poems that were published in more than one collection (but not in
an omnibus like Collected Poems)

2) Any poems that are in an omnibus that were not published in a
previous collection?

The answer will inform whether or not we do an omnibus. If there are
duplicates across collections, or uncollected poetry that was published
individually or later published in an omnibus, then we do our own
omnibus. Otherwise, we can produce each collection individually.

On 5/31/24 4:06 AM, Giacomo wrote:
> This took me a bit more time than expected as life got in the way. I've
> collected and processed all the poems in the chronology present in "Not
> Much Fun".
>
> I've created this Markdown table from the resulting
> data: https://gist.github.com/mexicat/d459bdd96e0309ec31a855b2e1662528
> It should be enough for additional analysis.
>
> Let me know how you prefer to proceed.
>
> On Monday, December 18, 2023 at 5:58:50 PM UTC+1 Alex Cabal wrote:
>
> It might work. The idea is to see if she has uncollected poetry or not.
> If so then an omnibus is required.
>
> On 12/18/23 3:49 AM, Giacomo wrote:
> > Ah, I see.
> >
> > In that case, "The Uncollected Dorothy Parker" (available for
> borrowing
> > at

> https://archive.org/details/uncollecteddorot0000park/page/244/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/uncollecteddorot0000park/page/244/mode/2up> - also known as "Not Much Fun" in a different edition), published in 1999, is a collection of previously unpublished poems. It also has a "Complete Chronology" section with original publishing dates for *all* of Parker's poems (pages 244-254). I know there is a second edition from 2009 that includes some additional unpublished poems, but I cannot find it online. Maybe this initial list is exhaustive enough? I could then compile a spreadsheet from it.

> <http://archive.org/ <http://archive.org/>>

> >> > too: https://archive.org/details/enoughropepoems0000park
> <https://archive.org/details/enoughropepoems0000park>
> >> <https://archive.org/details/enoughropepoems0000park
> <https://archive.org/details/enoughropepoems0000park>>
> >
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[Giacomo]

So, to summarize all information I have:

• There are 4 collections of poems: Enough Rope (1926), Sunset Gun (1928), Death and Taxes (1931), Not So Deep as a Well (1936).
• There is one additional collection of previously unpublished poems, Not Much Fun (1996; 2009 re-edition with additional poems). This collection includes the chronology of all poems that I've linked above, and which should be accurate to this day.
• There is an omnibus, Complete Poems (2010) which *should* include everything from the 5 books above. I cannot say which poems are actually there because I cannot find a digital copy or an index online. I've ordered the physical version from Amazon; once it arrives, I will be able to verify that this assumption is true.
• There are 188 poems which are present in more than one collection.

Given even only the last point, I guess that an omnibus is the way to go, right?

[Giacomo]

My copy of Complete Poems arrived; it does indeed include everything from all previous collections. The sections into which it divides the content is:

• Enough Rope (1926)
• Sunset Gun (1928)
• Death and Taxes (1931)
• Not So Deep a Well (1936)
• The Portable Dorothy Parker (1944)
• Uncollected poems (corresponds to "Not Much Fun" 2009 edition) in chronological order

Poems that *should* be present in more than one section, because they appeared in multiple books, are only present in the first section they appear in (chronologically). This means that the "Not So Deep a Well" section only contains five poems, and the "Portable Dorothy Parker" section only includes two.

[Weijia Cheng]

Alex will give the final decision, but usually in a situation like this we would compile everything into an omnibus collection.

[Alex Cabal]

Yes, this is definitely an omnibus situation. So if you'd like to work
on that, for now we would only include anything published before 1929,
which sounds like collections including "Sunset Gun" and any uncollected
poems before that date. Then, as the PD year advances we can go back and
add more poems later.

Do you want to work on that?

On 6/1/24 6:59 AM, Giacomo wrote:
> So, to summarize all information I have:
>

> * There are 4 collections of poems: Enough Rope (1926), Sunset Gun

> (1928), Death and Taxes (1931), Not So Deep as a Well (1936).

> * There is one additional collection of previously unpublished poems,

> Not Much Fun (1996; 2009 re-edition with additional poems). This
> collection includes the chronology of all poems that I've linked
> above, and which should be accurate to this day.

> * There is an omnibus, Complete Poems (2010) which *should* include

> everything from the 5 books above. I cannot say which poems are
> actually there because I cannot find a digital copy or an index
> online. I've ordered the physical version from Amazon; once it
> arrives, I will be able to verify that this assumption is true.

> * There are 188 poems which are present in more than one collection.

> https://archive.org/details/uncollecteddorot0000park/page/244/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/uncollecteddorot0000park/page/244/mode/2up> <https://archive.org/details/uncollecteddorot0000park/page/244/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/uncollecteddorot0000park/page/244/mode/2up>> - also known as "Not Much Fun" in a different edition), published in 1999, is a collection of previously unpublished poems. It also has a "Complete Chronology" section with original publishing dates for *all* of Parker's poems (pages 244-254). I know there is a second edition from 2009 that includes some additional unpublished poems, but I cannot find it online. Maybe this initial list is exhaustive enough? I could then compile a spreadsheet from it.

> <http://archive.org <http://archive.org>>
> > <http://archive.org/ <http://archive.org/> <http://archive.org/

> <http://archive.org/>>>
> > >> > too: https://archive.org/details/enoughropepoems0000park
> <https://archive.org/details/enoughropepoems0000park>
> > <https://archive.org/details/enoughropepoems0000park
> <https://archive.org/details/enoughropepoems0000park>>
> > >> <https://archive.org/details/enoughropepoems0000park
> <https://archive.org/details/enoughropepoems0000park>
> > <https://archive.org/details/enoughropepoems0000park
> <https://archive.org/details/enoughropepoems0000park>>>
> > >
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[Giacomo]

Yes, I can work on that, although it will obviously take more time :)

This means that the omnibus would currently (2024) include the following:

• Enough Rope - transcription available at https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/68353
• Sunset Gun - transcription available at https://www.aliceandbooks.com/book/sunset-gun/dorothy-parker/937
• Uncollected poems up to 1929 - there's 116 of them, but no transcription available since there's no ebook version of either "Complete Poems" or "Not Much Fun". These poems would have to be OCR'd from either the scan of "Not Much Fun" (not sure about how legal this is) or the original magazines (~100 issues). At a cursory glance, archive.org has all relevant magazine scans.

Another question would be if we want to follow the structure from "Complete Poems" and divide the omnibus in (currently) three sections, with repeated poems omitted from later sections, or just have everything sorted by original publishing date.

[Weijia Cheng]

If you want an example of how to deal with uncollected poetry published in the public domain period, you can look at the Langston Hughes poetry collection, which is mostly uncollected in this time period. You should find the original magazine scans of the uncollected poems wherever possible, and record them in a spreadsheet like this, and transcribe the uncollected poems from the magazines.

Alex, if you want, I can manage this production since I've had a lot of experience working on omnibus poetry collections at this point.

[Giacomo]

Yes, this is actually what I started doing already for the scans of the uncollected poems: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FqWnHAeQ49utNQo_9vnp9-bdqDT5YPupeZqsof3vlnY/edit?usp=sharing

For transcriptions, I've done some successful tests with ChatGPT 4 to feed it the (partial) scan of the magazine page and have it return well-formatted HTML, that I can then check manually.

Should collected poems be separated from uncollected ones or not, in any case?

[Weijia Cheng]

They should all go into the same collection, arranged by the publication order. It sounds fine to use ChatGPT 4 as a transcription shortcut, but make sure that the output matches the printed text before committing anything.

Also, if you are interested, I have a simple script that can be used to speed up poetry collections. Basically what I do is transcribe the poem like this

<p>

#Verse 1

##Verse 2 with i1,

###Verse 3 with i2,

#etc.

</p>

And run this script and it generates the appropriate HTML tags. But if ChatGPT 4 works better for your workflow, that's fine too!

[Alex Cabal]

Sure, you can manage this.

You would just order them by publication year without any top level
divisions.

It doesn't matter where you transcribe the pre-1929 poems from, as long
as you're sure that the text matches the actual first publication text
and doesn't contain changes/additions/deletions that appear after 1929.
Some authors do a lot of that kind of stuff (like Wodehouse), others
don't. So you just have to check each poem to make sure it matches.

On 6/7/24 7:30 AM, Weijia Cheng wrote:
> If you want an example of how to deal with uncollected poetry published
> in the public domain period, you can look at the Langston Hughes poetry
> collection

> <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hqz9yCVfPkw3IrOhkQASaPGy2oaTgNWKH1vmZd50384/edit?usp=sharing>, which is mostly uncollected in this time period. You should find the original magazine scans of the uncollected poems wherever possible, and record them in a spreadsheet like this, and transcribe the uncollected poems from the magazines.

>
> Alex, if you want, I can manage this production since I've had a lot of
> experience working on omnibus poetry collections at this point.
>
> On Friday, June 7, 2024 at 5:25:01 AM UTC-7 Giacomo wrote:
>
> Yes, I can work on that, although it will obviously take more time :)
>
> This means that the omnibus would currently (2024) include the
> following:
>

> * Enough Rope - transcription available at
> https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/68353
> <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/68353>
> * Sunset Gun - transcription available at
> https://www.aliceandbooks.com/book/sunset-gun/dorothy-parker/937
> <https://www.aliceandbooks.com/book/sunset-gun/dorothy-parker/937>
> * Uncollected poems up to 1929 - there's 116 of them, but no

> transcription available since there's no ebook version of either
> "Complete Poems" or "Not Much Fun". These poems would have to be
> OCR'd from either the scan of "Not Much Fun" (not sure about how
> legal this is) or the original magazines (~100 issues). At a

> cursory glance, archive.org <http://archive.org> has all

> https://archive.org/details/uncollecteddorot0000park/page/244/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/uncollecteddorot0000park/page/244/mode/2up> <https://archive.org/details/uncollecteddorot0000park/page/244/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/uncollecteddorot0000park/page/244/mode/2up>> <https://archive.org/details/uncollecteddorot0000park/page/244/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/uncollecteddorot0000park/page/244/mode/2up> <https://archive.org/details/uncollecteddorot0000park/page/244/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/uncollecteddorot0000park/page/244/mode/2up>>> - also known as "Not Much Fun" in a different edition), published in 1999, is a collection of previously unpublished poems. It also has a "Complete Chronology" section with original publishing dates for *all* of Parker's poems (pages 244-254). I know there is a second edition from 2009 that includes some additional unpublished poems, but I cannot find it online. Maybe this initial list is exhaustive enough? I could then compile a spreadsheet from it.

> <http://archive.org/ <http://archive.org/>> <http://archive.org/

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