[First project] Fish preferred

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Michael Young

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May 20, 2026, 7:13:48 PMMay 20
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I’m considering starting a version of Fish Preferred by P.G. Wodehouse, which was added on Gutenberg last year: 

Is this the kind of thing you're looking for? I’ve produced a couple of books using the Standard Ebooks toolset already (for personal use) but would like to make my first real project.

Alex Cabal

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May 21, 2026, 3:09:18 PMMay 21
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Great, that one would be a good start.

Should be pretty straightforward. Cut everything up to and including the
ToC.

Make sure to read the Standard Ebooks Manual of Style before starting,
as you won't know what to fix if you haven't read the standards. In
particular, please closely review the semantics, high level patterns,
and typography sections:

https://standardebooks.org/manual

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography

The step by step guide will take you from start to finish. Please follow
it exactly:

https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step

This page on common issues in older books may be useful:

https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-working-on-public-domain-ebooks

Please email often if you have any questions at all. Our standards are
well-established so there is probably already a standard for formatting
whatever problem you've encountered.

When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github repository so
that I can assign you a manager and reviewer.

Have fun! :)


On 5/20/26 6:13 PM, Michael Young wrote:
> I’m considering starting a version of Fish Preferred by P.G. Wodehouse,
> which was added on Gutenberg last year:
> https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/75435 <https://www.gutenberg.org/
> ebooks/75435>
>
> Is this the kind of thing you're looking for? I’ve produced a couple of
> books using the Standard Ebooks toolset already (for personal use) but
> would like to make my first real project.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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Michael Young

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May 27, 2026, 12:30:21 PMMay 27
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I'm making good progress and should have something on Github soon!

One tricky thing I've come across is how to typeset French phrases used in English sentences. In the source they're generally italicised, but in phrases like "He searched for the mot juste" I removed the italics in line with the guidance you linked above.

Here's one I've found though where the narrator is actually *talking about* a phrase:

> It would be difficult to find a better illustration of all that is implied in the fine old phrase <i>Noblesse oblige</i>.

The phrase "noblesse oblige" is in Merriam-Webster, so strictly I'd remove all the markup around it, but it feels like it needs something. Quote marks?

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Alex Cabal

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May 27, 2026, 12:31:14 PMMay 27
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Please send a link to your Github repo, so we can start a project and
assign you a manager and reviewer who will answer your questions. Thanks!

On 5/27/26 11:30 AM, Michael Young wrote:
> I'm making good progress and should have something on Github soon!
>
> One tricky thing I've come across is how to typeset French phrases used
> in English sentences. In the source they're generally italicised, but in
> phrases like "He searched for the mot juste" I removed the italics in
> line with the guidance you linked above.
>
> Here's one I've found though where the narrator is actually *talking
> about* a phrase:
>
> > It would be difficult to find a better illustration of all that is
> implied in the fine old phrase <i>Noblesse oblige</i>.
>
> The phrase "noblesse oblige" is in Merriam-Webster, so strictly I'd
> remove all the markup around it, but it feels like it needs something.
> Quote marks?
>
> On Thu, 21 May 2026 at 20:09, 'Alex Cabal' via Standard Ebooks
> <standar...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standar...@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>
> Great, that one would be a good start.
>
> Should be pretty straightforward. Cut everything up to and including
> the
> ToC.
>
> Make sure to read the Standard Ebooks Manual of Style before starting,
> as you won't know what to fix if you haven't read the standards. In
> particular, please closely review the semantics, high level patterns,
> and typography sections:
>
> https://standardebooks.org/manual <https://standardebooks.org/manual>
>
> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics <https://
> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics>
>
> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-
> patterns <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-
> structural-patterns>
>
> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography <https://
> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography>
>
> The step by step guide will take you from start to finish. Please
> follow
> it exactly:
>
> https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-
> step <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-
> by-step>
>
> This page on common issues in older books may be useful:
>
> https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-
> working-on-public-domain-ebooks <https://standardebooks.org/
> contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-working-on-public-domain-ebooks>
>
> Please email often if you have any questions at all. Our standards are
> well-established so there is probably already a standard for formatting
> whatever problem you've encountered.
>
> When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github repository so
> that I can assign you a manager and reviewer.
>
> Have fun! :)
>
>
> On 5/20/26 6:13 PM, Michael Young wrote:
> > I’m considering starting a version of Fish Preferred by P.G.
> Wodehouse,
> > which was added on Gutenberg last year:
> > https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/75435 <https://
> www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/75435> <https://www.gutenberg.org/
> <https://www.gutenberg.org/>
> > ebooks/75435>
> >
> > Is this the kind of thing you're looking for? I’ve produced a
> couple of
> > books using the Standard Ebooks toolset already (for personal
> use) but
> > would like to make my first real project.
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
> > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebooks%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebooks%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>>.
> > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> > standardebooks/
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>
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Michael Young

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May 28, 2026, 6:20:46 AMMay 28
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Michael Young

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May 28, 2026, 6:23:11 AMMay 28
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As you'll see from the commit history, I've followed the step-by-step guide, and I'm now at the proofreading stage (just started on this last night). As such I've finished all the text (as far as I know) but haven't done metadata or cover art.

Alex Cabal

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May 28, 2026, 12:01:24 PMMay 28
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OK, Robin will manage with Emma reviewing. Robin can you address the
questions upthread?

On 5/28/26 5:20 AM, Michael Young wrote:
> Certainly! Here we are: https://github.com/mtorpey/p-g-wodehouse_fish-
> preferred <https://github.com/mtorpey/p-g-wodehouse_fish-preferred>
>
> On Wed, 27 May 2026 at 17:31, 'Alex Cabal' via Standard Ebooks
> <standar...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standar...@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>
> Please send a link to your Github repo
>
> --
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> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

Robin Whittleton

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May 28, 2026, 12:09:01 PMMay 28
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Sure.

I agree that if we remove the italics we need some quotes. Do that in a separate commit, and preface the commit message with [Editorial] so that it’s clear to future interested parties that we’ve made a material change to the text. See https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.8/single-page#1.4.2

-Robin

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Michael Young

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Aug 14, 2026, 9:29:44 AM (4 days ago) Aug 14
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The proofread is finished!

There were surprisingly few errors that came up. There are just two that I need some advice on.

1. Subchapter headings are sometimes the last thing on a page, with the start of the subchapter on the page following it. This never happens with chapter headings, and I wonder if it's something that needs to be considered. Did I do something wrong, or is this just down to the core.css style?

2. Ellipses are bothering me in some places. I've read the entry in the manual of style, but I don't know quite how to handle full stops when a character trails off in a sentence. For example, in chapter-1.xhtml we have:

<p>“In the rose garden.⁠ ⁠…”</p>

and

<p>“It is not a question of.⁠ ⁠… If you will

These have a full stop followed by an ellipsis (with the appropriate hair spaces and joiners). None of the linters have a problem, but it looks funny, and in any case renders four dots in total instead of three. Should the full stop be removed?

After these are dealt with, I'll carry on with the guidance for proposing cover art, and adding metadata and all.

Robin Whittleton

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Aug 14, 2026, 3:49:19 PM (3 days ago) Aug 14
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1. I’ve checked, but we don’t fix this in other productions. I wouldn’t worry about it.

2. That’s fine. A typical production will use three dots for a straight ellipsis, and four dots for an ellipsis at the end of a sentence, but you don’t have to worry about that, just go with what the transcription does.

Looking forwards to seeing your art proposal!

-Robin

Alex Cabal

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Aug 14, 2026, 4:08:33 PM (3 days ago) Aug 14
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To be more specific re. headers, core.css does already specify
`break-after: avoid` for all headings by default. It's up to the ereader
to respect that CSS.

On 8/14/26 2:48 PM, Robin Whittleton wrote:
> 1. I’ve checked, but we don’t fix this in other productions. I wouldn’t
> worry about it.
>
> 2. That’s fine. A typical production will use three dots for a straight
> ellipsis, and four dots for an ellipsis at the end of a sentence, but
> you don’t have to worry about that, just go with what the transcription
> does.
>
> Looking forwards to seeing your art proposal!
>
> -Robin
>
>> On 14 Aug 2026, at 15:29, Michael Young <mcto...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The proofread is finished!
>>
>> There were surprisingly few errors that came up. There are just two
>> that I need some advice on.
>>
>> 1. Subchapter headings are sometimes the last thing on a page, with
>> the start of the subchapter on the page following it. This never
>> happens with chapter headings, and I wonder if it's something that
>> needs to be considered. Did I do something wrong, or is this just down
>> to the core.css style?
>>
>> 2. Ellipses are bothering me in some places. I've read the entry in
>> the manual of style, but I don't know quite how to handle full stops
>> when a character trails off in a sentence. For example, in
>> chapter-1.xhtml <https://github.com/mtorpey/p-g-wodehouse_fish-
>> preferred/blob/main/src/epub/text/chapter-1.xhtml> we have:
>>
>> <p>“In the rose garden.⁠ ⁠…”</p>
>>
>> and
>>
>> <p>“It is not a question of.⁠ ⁠… If you will
>>
>> These have a full stop followed by an ellipsis (with the appropriate
>> hair spaces and joiners). None of the linters have a problem, but it
>> looks funny, and in any case renders four dots in total instead of
>> three. Should the full stop be removed?
>>
>> After these are dealt with, I'll carry on with the guidance <https://
>> standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step#cover>
>> for proposing cover art, and adding metadata and all.
>> On Thursday, 28 May 2026 at 17:09:01 UTC+1 robin wrote:
>>
>> Sure.
>>
>> I agree that if we remove the italics we need some quotes. Do that
>> in a separate commit, and preface the commit message with
>> [Editorial] so that it’s clear to future interested parties that
>> we’ve made a material change to the text. See https://
>> standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.8/single-page#1.4.2 <https://
>> standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.8/single-page#1.4.2>
>>
>> -Robin
>>
>>> On 28 May 2026, at 18:01, 'Alex Cabal' via Standard Ebooks
>>> <standar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> OK, Robin will manage with Emma reviewing. Robin can you address
>>> the questions upthread?
>>>
>>> On 5/28/26 5:20 AM, Michael Young wrote:
>>>> Certainly! Here we are: https://github.com/mtorpey/p-g-
>>>> wodehouse_fish- <https://github.com/mtorpey/p-g-wodehouse_fish->
>>>> preferred <https://github.com/mtorpey/p-g-wodehouse_fish-
>>>> preferred <https://github.com/mtorpey/p-g-wodehouse_fish-preferred>>
>>>> On Wed, 27 May 2026 at 17:31, 'Alex Cabal' via Standard Ebooks
>>>> <standar...@googlegroups.com
>>>> <mailto:standar...@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>    Please send a link to your Github repo --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>> Google Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>>>> it, send an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
>>>> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
>>>> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/> standardebooks/CABF0cTB-
>>>> zmUQY9QY%2B6a_dw83sQJGSgfUos4naqua71rQHNUTPg%40mail.gmail.com
>>>> <http://40mail.gmail.com/> <https:// groups.google.com/d/msgid/
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>>>> standardebooks/CABF0cTB->
>>>> zmUQY9QY%2B6a_dw83sQJGSgfUos4naqua71rQHNUTPg%40mail.gmail.com
>>>> <http://40mail.gmail.com/>? utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>>>
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>>
>>
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