[Next Project] Spoon River Anthology by Edgar Lee Masters
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Brad Taylor
Jul 18, 2022, 9:32:15 AM7/18/22
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This seems like an interesting next project.
Transcription (1915 first edition): https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/1280
Scans (1916 expanded edition): https://archive.org/details/spoonriveranthol021mast
I do have a few questions to start with:
1. This work is made up of nearly 250 short individual poems. Each poem should be its own chapter, correct? How should the chapters be numbered (if at all)? Is there a similar SE production that I could refer to? The ones I can find seem to be split into books and/or cantos.
2. The table of contents in the scans and transcription are in alphabetical order instead of the order of appearance in the book. Will this just be a manual rearrangement of the ToC later, or is there a way to handle this better from the start?
3. The PG version is based of the 1915 first edition. Masters added 32 character poems and an epilogue in his 1916 edition (additions are detailed here: https://web.archive.org/web/20080723131147/http://spoonriveranthology.net/spoon/river/article/editionOrder). Because the PG version does not include these, am I correct in assuming that I will need to manually transcribe them from the scans?
2. The table of contents in the scans and transcription are in alphabetical order instead of the order of appearance in the book. Will this just be a manual rearrangement of the ToC later, or is there a way to handle this better from the start?
3. The PG version is based of the 1915 first edition. Masters added 32 character poems and an epilogue in his 1916 edition (additions are detailed here: https://web.archive.org/web/20080723131147/http://spoonriveranthology.net/spoon/river/article/editionOrder). Because the PG version does not include these, am I correct in assuming that I will need to manually transcribe them from the scans?
Vince Rice
Jul 18, 2022, 10:19:39 AM7/18/22
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This seems like an interesting next project.Transcription (1915 first edition): https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/1280Scans (1916 expanded edition): https://archive.org/details/spoonriveranthol021mast
Without speaking to whether the project itself if OK (that’s up to Alex)…
I do have a few questions to start with:1. This work is made up of nearly 250 short individual poems. Each poem should be its own chapter, correct? How should the chapters be numbered (if at all)? Is there a similar SE production that I could refer to? The ones I can find seem to be split into books and/or cantos.
There are several poetry collections in the corpus. They can all go in a single file (although that might be unwieldy with 250), or one per file, with the file name and id the name of the poem, similar to how our short story collections look.
2. The table of contents in the scans and transcription are in alphabetical order instead of the order of appearance in the book. Will this just be a manual rearrangement of the ToC later, or is there a way to handle this better from the start?
Again up to Alex, but I don’t see any reason we would do that (have a different ToC order).
3. The PG version is based of the 1915 first edition. Masters added 32 character poems and an epilogue in his 1916 edition (additions are detailed here: https://web.archive.org/web/20080723131147/http://spoonriveranthology.net/spoon/river/article/editionOrder). Because the PG version does not include these, am I correct in assuming that I will need to manually transcribe them from the scans?
Yes.
Vince
Jul 18, 2022, 2:25:45 PM7/18/22
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For the poetry collections, chose “Poetry” from the Subjects filter on the main SE Ebooks page and look at a few of them, e.g. James Joyce poetry, or James Weldon Johnson’s poetry collection. Both of those have everything in one file (Joyce’s has one additional file for a longer one).
For the short story collections, which has each story in a single file, do the same, but choose “Shorts” from the Subjects filter.
Alex Cabal
Jul 18, 2022, 4:51:51 PM7/18/22
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OK, you can go ahead and get started on that. Yes, please include the
1916 editions. I'm surprised PG doesn't have them; are you sure you
can't find transcriptions somewhere else online? If you do have to
transcribe them yourself, make sure to add the transcriber role to your
metadata entry.
I think we can leave the ToC as build-toc will make it. Alphabetizing it
doesn't make much sense since everyone is fictional anyway.
Please send a link to your repo when you've gotten started. Thanks!
On 7/18/22 8:32 AM, Brad Taylor wrote:
> This seems like an interesting next project.
> Transcription (1915 first edition): https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/1280
> <https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/1280>
> Scans (1916 expanded edition):
> https://archive.org/details/spoonriveranthol021mast
> <https://archive.org/details/spoonriveranthol021mast>
> Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_River_Anthology
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_River_Anthology>
>
> I do have a few questions to start with:
>
> 1. This work is made up of nearly 250 short individual poems. Each poem
> should be its own chapter, correct? How should the chapters be numbered
> (if at all)? Is there a similar SE production that I could refer to? The
> ones I can find seem to be split into books and/or cantos.
>
> 2. The table of contents in the scans and transcription are in
> alphabetical order instead of the order of appearance in the book. Will
> this just be a manual rearrangement of the ToC later, or is there a way
> to handle this better from the start?
>
> 3. The PG version is based of the 1915 first edition. Masters added 32
> character poems and an epilogue in his 1916 edition (additions are
> detailed here:
> https://web.archive.org/web/20080723131147/http://spoonriveranthology.net/spoon/river/article/editionOrder
> <https://web.archive.org/web/20080723131147/http://spoonriveranthology.net/spoon/river/article/editionOrder>).
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1916 editions. I'm surprised PG doesn't have them; are you sure you
can't find transcriptions somewhere else online? If you do have to
transcribe them yourself, make sure to add the transcriber role to your
metadata entry.
I think we can leave the ToC as build-toc will make it. Alphabetizing it
doesn't make much sense since everyone is fictional anyway.
Please send a link to your repo when you've gotten started. Thanks!
On 7/18/22 8:32 AM, Brad Taylor wrote:
> This seems like an interesting next project.
> Transcription (1915 first edition): https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/1280
> <https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/1280>
> Scans (1916 expanded edition):
> https://archive.org/details/spoonriveranthol021mast
> <https://archive.org/details/spoonriveranthol021mast>
> Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_River_Anthology
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_River_Anthology>
>
> I do have a few questions to start with:
>
> 1. This work is made up of nearly 250 short individual poems. Each poem
> should be its own chapter, correct? How should the chapters be numbered
> (if at all)? Is there a similar SE production that I could refer to? The
> ones I can find seem to be split into books and/or cantos.
>
> 2. The table of contents in the scans and transcription are in
> alphabetical order instead of the order of appearance in the book. Will
> this just be a manual rearrangement of the ToC later, or is there a way
> to handle this better from the start?
>
> 3. The PG version is based of the 1915 first edition. Masters added 32
> character poems and an epilogue in his 1916 edition (additions are
> detailed here:
> https://web.archive.org/web/20080723131147/http://spoonriveranthology.net/spoon/river/article/editionOrder
> Because the PG version does not include these, am I correct in assuming
> that I will need to manually transcribe them from the scans?
>
> --
> that I will need to manually transcribe them from the scans?
>
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Alex Cabal
Jul 18, 2022, 4:53:50 PM7/18/22
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Actually I see that the link you included already has transcriptions, so
just use those after confirming that they're totally faithful to the
1916 page scans.
just use those after confirming that they're totally faithful to the
1916 page scans.
Brad Taylor
Jul 18, 2022, 7:31:19 PM7/18/22
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Alex,
Do you mean the archive.org link? I do see there is a text version of the scans but you can tell it was done by a machine and not a human; there are tons of random characters, odd capitalization, misspellings, etc. I think I could use portions of it; the actual poems seem to be mostly accurate to the scans (except for some punctuation errors). As for the overall plan, what would you think if I start from the PG transcription (of course making sure it's still accurate to the 1916 scans) and then manually pull in the poems that were added in the 1916 edition? I can still start from the text from the 1916 scans if you think that's better, but I think the PG transcription is a lot cleaner.
Alex Cabal
Jul 19, 2022, 12:26:55 PM7/19/22
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The link you included in your email:
https://web.archive.org/web/20080723131147/http://spoonriveranthology.net/spoon/river/article/editionOrder
On 7/18/22 6:31 PM, Brad Taylor wrote:
> Alex,
> Do you mean the archive.org link? I do see there is a text version of
> the scans
> <https://archive.org/stream/spoonriveranthol021mast/spoonriveranthol021mast_djvu.txt>
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/ddc53a1a-731f-48b3-b3cf-349c2733e47bn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/ddc53a1a-731f-48b3-b3cf-349c2733e47bn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/9a295cdf-7f7b-4cb2-8814-24860511536en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
https://web.archive.org/web/20080723131147/http://spoonriveranthology.net/spoon/river/article/editionOrder
On 7/18/22 6:31 PM, Brad Taylor wrote:
> Alex,
> Do you mean the archive.org link? I do see there is a text version of
> the scans
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/ddc53a1a-731f-48b3-b3cf-349c2733e47bn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>
> >>
>
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> >>
>
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Brad Taylor
Jul 19, 2022, 7:13:24 PM7/19/22
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Thanks Alex and Vince, I'll use those transcriptions (https://web.archive.org/web/20080723131115/http://spoonriveranthology.net/spoon/river/originalOrder/) since they are of the 1916 edition. Here's the link to the repo: https://github.com/btaylor8/edgar-lee-masters_spoon-river-anthology
Brad Taylor
Aug 1, 2022, 4:23:43 PM8/1/22
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I have a couple questions about the epilogue of the book. It is formatted as a play (instead of poems like the rest).
1. In the scans, some of the lines of dialog are indented to start halfway across the page (not center aligned). Sometimes one character's dialog will be left aligned and the next character's will be indented, but it's not consistent (see pages 293-296 of the scans). Do I need to match the indentation in the scans? I can't rely on PG's transcription because it was of an earlier edition that did not include the Epilogue.
2. Some stage directions are in the middle of a character's dialog but are shown as their own lines in the scans (see page 296). Should these treated as inline stage directions?
Alex Cabal
Aug 1, 2022, 6:44:25 PM8/1/22
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It's not really possible to align text in that way in HTML/CSS given our
semantic restrictions, so you don't have to do that.
It looks like much of that is formatted as verse. See any of our
Shakespeare plays for verse in play formatting, and I'm sure many of
those include stage directions inbetween as well.
On 8/1/22 3:23 PM, Brad Taylor wrote:
> I have a couple questions about the epilogue of the book. It is
> formatted as a play (instead of poems like the rest).
> 1. In the scans, some of the lines of dialog are indented to start
> halfway across the page (not center aligned). Sometimes one character's
> dialog will be left aligned and the next character's will be indented,
> but it's not consistent (see pages 293-296 of the scans
> <https://archive.org/details/spoonriveranthol021mast/page/293/mode/1up>). Do
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/9a295cdf-7f7b-4cb2-8814-24860511536en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/9a295cdf-7f7b-4cb2-8814-24860511536en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
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semantic restrictions, so you don't have to do that.
It looks like much of that is formatted as verse. See any of our
Shakespeare plays for verse in play formatting, and I'm sure many of
those include stage directions inbetween as well.
On 8/1/22 3:23 PM, Brad Taylor wrote:
> I have a couple questions about the epilogue of the book. It is
> formatted as a play (instead of poems like the rest).
> 1. In the scans, some of the lines of dialog are indented to start
> halfway across the page (not center aligned). Sometimes one character's
> dialog will be left aligned and the next character's will be indented,
> but it's not consistent (see pages 293-296 of the scans
> I need to match the indentation in the scans? I can't rely on PG's
> transcription because it was of an earlier edition that did not include
> the Epilogue.
> 2. Some stage directions are in the middle of a character's dialog but
> are shown as their own lines in the scans (see page 296
> <https://archive.org/details/spoonriveranthol021mast/page/296/mode/1up>). Should
> transcription because it was of an earlier edition that did not include
> the Epilogue.
> 2. Some stage directions are in the middle of a character's dialog but
> are shown as their own lines in the scans (see page 296
> these treated as inline stage directions?
>
> On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 7:13:24 PM UTC-4 Brad Taylor wrote:
>
> Thanks Alex and Vince, I'll use those transcriptions
> (https://web.archive.org/web/20080723131115/http://spoonriveranthology.net/spoon/river/originalOrder/
> <https://web.archive.org/web/20080723131115/http://spoonriveranthology.net/spoon/river/originalOrder/>)
>
> On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 7:13:24 PM UTC-4 Brad Taylor wrote:
>
> Thanks Alex and Vince, I'll use those transcriptions
> (https://web.archive.org/web/20080723131115/http://spoonriveranthology.net/spoon/river/originalOrder/
> since they are of the 1916 edition. Here's the link to the repo:
> https://github.com/btaylor8/edgar-lee-masters_spoon-river-anthology
> <https://github.com/btaylor8/edgar-lee-masters_spoon-river-anthology>
>
> On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 9:26:55 AM UTC-7 Alex Cabal wrote:
>
> The link you included in your email:
> https://web.archive.org/web/20080723131147/http://spoonriveranthology.net/spoon/river/article/editionOrder
> <https://web.archive.org/web/20080723131147/http://spoonriveranthology.net/spoon/river/article/editionOrder>
>
>
> On 7/18/22 6:31 PM, Brad Taylor wrote:
> > Alex,
> > Do you mean the archive.org <http://archive.org> link? I do
> https://github.com/btaylor8/edgar-lee-masters_spoon-river-anthology
> <https://github.com/btaylor8/edgar-lee-masters_spoon-river-anthology>
>
> On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 9:26:55 AM UTC-7 Alex Cabal wrote:
>
> The link you included in your email:
> https://web.archive.org/web/20080723131147/http://spoonriveranthology.net/spoon/river/article/editionOrder
> <https://web.archive.org/web/20080723131147/http://spoonriveranthology.net/spoon/river/article/editionOrder>
>
>
> On 7/18/22 6:31 PM, Brad Taylor wrote:
> > Alex,
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/9a295cdf-7f7b-4cb2-8814-24860511536en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>
>
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Brad Taylor
Aug 3, 2022, 1:34:39 PM8/3/22
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I'm currently proofreading. In the meantime, I've found cover art that seems very fitting: Friedhofseingang by Caspar David Friedrich.
PD proof (page 143): https://www.google.com/books/edition/Caspar_David_Friedrich_und_die_Landschaf/WrlXAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0
Alex Cabal
Aug 3, 2022, 2:29:51 PM8/3/22
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OK great. Let's use this scan instead because yours looks very dim:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Caspar_David_Friedrich_053.jpg
> <http://archive.org <http://archive.org>> link? I do
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/ce8f5b4b-1bdc-4aae-9764-6bf00169fd83n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
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https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Caspar_David_Friedrich_053.jpg
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>
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Brad Taylor
Aug 11, 2022, 4:17:05 PM8/11/22
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I have some questions about modernizing spelling and diacritics (I did not run `se modernize-spelling` because this is poetry; there are tons of hyphenated words but it seems clear that these should not be changed). Should I make any of the following changes?
1. some one -> someone
2. Champs Elysees -> Champs Élysées
3. cafes -> cafés
4. passe -> passé
5. Mahomet -> Muhammad
6. staid -> stayed (the context is the past tense of "stay")
Alex Cabal
Aug 11, 2022, 4:35:29 PM8/11/22
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Yes, but for some one only if it makes sense in the context. I.e. it's
not "some one of a number"
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not "some one of a number"
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Brad Taylor
Aug 16, 2022, 2:50:13 PM8/16/22
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This is ready for review: https://github.com/btaylor8/edgar-lee-masters_spoon-river-anthology. Some notes:
- The transcription I used is only available as an archive.org "Wayback Machine" link which caused lint error m-037 in the imprint and colophon, so I added them to se-lint-ignore.xml
- The entire first poem is italicized in the page scans (https://archive.org/details/spoonriveranthol021mast), but I don' think added any meaning so I left as regular text
- Sections "The Spooniad" and "Epilogue" both had half title pages in the scans but I did not include them; please let me know if these should be added
- Some lines of "The Spooniad" were right-aligned in the scans so I formatted them as such using <p class="right">
Alex Cabal
Aug 20, 2022, 2:48:22 PM8/20/22
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OK, I've had a chance to review this, sorry for the delay.
Overall, very good. I made some changes for you to note for next time:
- "The Hill" is an epigraph, which is why it was italicized. (You'll
note it's not in the ToC in print). I pulled it out as its own file and
restored the italics, though it's unusual in that it belongs after the
half title in this special case.
- What you marked as the 2nd dedication is actually an acknowledgements
page.
I also made some other minor tweaks if you want to look at the commit
history.
Now that I see the cover art, I think that it might not be a great fit
because of the figure's tricorn hat really dating the art. This book is
set in 20th century small town America where people haven't worn tricorn
hats for 200 years. We can keep it for now, but if anyone has other
suggestions for a more generic "graveyard" or "grave" type painting,
maybe we can use that as replacement cover art.
Thanks for putting it together and let us know what you'd like to work
on next!
On 8/16/22 1:50 PM, Brad Taylor wrote:
> This is ready for review:
> https://github.com/btaylor8/edgar-lee-masters_spoon-river-anthology
> <https://github.com/btaylor8/edgar-lee-masters_spoon-river-anthology>.
> Some notes:
>
> * The transcription I used is only available as an archive.org
> (https://archive.org/details/spoonriveranthol021mast
> <https://archive.org/details/spoonriveranthol021mast>), but I don'
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Overall, very good. I made some changes for you to note for next time:
- "The Hill" is an epigraph, which is why it was italicized. (You'll
note it's not in the ToC in print). I pulled it out as its own file and
restored the italics, though it's unusual in that it belongs after the
half title in this special case.
- What you marked as the 2nd dedication is actually an acknowledgements
page.
I also made some other minor tweaks if you want to look at the commit
history.
Now that I see the cover art, I think that it might not be a great fit
because of the figure's tricorn hat really dating the art. This book is
set in 20th century small town America where people haven't worn tricorn
hats for 200 years. We can keep it for now, but if anyone has other
suggestions for a more generic "graveyard" or "grave" type painting,
maybe we can use that as replacement cover art.
Thanks for putting it together and let us know what you'd like to work
on next!
On 8/16/22 1:50 PM, Brad Taylor wrote:
> This is ready for review:
> https://github.com/btaylor8/edgar-lee-masters_spoon-river-anthology
> Some notes:
>
> * The transcription I used is only available as an archive.org
> "Wayback Machine" link which caused lint error m-037 in the imprint
> and colophon, so I added them to se-lint-ignore.xml
> * The entire first poem is italicized in the page scans
> and colophon, so I added them to se-lint-ignore.xml
> (https://archive.org/details/spoonriveranthol021mast
> <https://archive.org/details/spoonriveranthol021mast>), but I don'
> think added any meaning so I left as regular text
> * Sections "The Spooniad" and "Epilogue" both had half title pages in
> the scans but I did not include them; please let me know if these
> should be added
> * Some lines of "The Spooniad" were right-aligned in the scans so I
> should be added
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>
>
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Brad Taylor
Aug 22, 2022, 10:16:19 AM8/22/22
to Standard Ebooks
Thanks for the feedback! I've looked through your commits and it all
makes sense. As for an alternate cover, how about this crop of Ghost
Dance by Ralph Albert Blakelock? It's not exactly a graveyard, but I think the
ghosts and the mood of the painting fit the book well.
PD proof here: https://archive.org/details/ralphalbertblake00dainrich/page/n32/mode/1up.
Alex Cabal
Aug 22, 2022, 6:05:07 PM8/22/22
to standar...@googlegroups.com
OK, I think that works a little better. Can you create a PR with the
updates? Remember to update the metadata, colophon, and run se
build-images as well.
On 8/22/22 9:16 AM, Brad Taylor wrote:
> Thanks for the feedback! I've looked through your commits and it all
> makes sense. As for an alternate cover, how about this crop of Ghost
> Dance by Ralph Albert Blakelock? It's not exactly a graveyard, but I
> think the ghosts and the mood of the painting fit the book well. PD
> proof here:
> https://archive.org/details/ralphalbertblake00dainrich/page/n32/mode/1up.
> <https://archive.org/details/ralphalbertblake00dainrich/page/n32/mode/1up>
> <http://archive.org>
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/6895990b-972f-43ed-b4e9-83e5d8d43f63n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/2d320fc3-6df5-46a3-ab09-6eff23cfabd0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
updates? Remember to update the metadata, colophon, and run se
build-images as well.
On 8/22/22 9:16 AM, Brad Taylor wrote:
> Thanks for the feedback! I've looked through your commits and it all
> makes sense. As for an alternate cover, how about this crop of Ghost
> Dance by Ralph Albert Blakelock? It's not exactly a graveyard, but I
> think the ghosts and the mood of the painting fit the book well. PD
> proof here:
> https://archive.org/details/ralphalbertblake00dainrich/page/n32/mode/1up.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/6895990b-972f-43ed-b4e9-83e5d8d43f63n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>
>
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Brad Taylor
Aug 22, 2022, 11:11:20 PM8/22/22
to Standard Ebooks
I updated everything and submitted the PR.
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