[Next project] Unto This Last by John Ruskin

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Lukas Bystricky

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Aug 16, 2022, 3:50:26 PMAug 16
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This one's a little on the short side at around 30,000 words (still more than twice as long as the Communist Manifesto) but it seems like it would be worth having given how influential it was.

Alex Cabal

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Aug 16, 2022, 3:51:40 PMAug 16
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For Ruskin we're probably going to want to do some kind of omnibus. He
was a very prolific essayist and critic, so we want to compile all of
that in one. That would be a very, very big task I think.
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Lukas Bystricky

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Aug 16, 2022, 4:07:48 PMAug 16
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Oh boy, that would be a big task indeed. Too big for me while I'm also working on the Golden Bough I'm afraid.

Would it make sense to split up his work a bit? It feels like his work on say art criticism would be quite separate from political/economic essays (although of course I'm not an expert on Ruskin). 

Alex Cabal

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Aug 16, 2022, 4:29:49 PMAug 16
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Lukas Bystricky

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Aug 16, 2022, 5:09:18 PMAug 16
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Well the good news is that all his works were collected and published together in 39 volumes shortly after his death. They're all available here: https://www.lancaster.ac.uk/the-ruskin/the-complete-works-of-ruskin/ in library quality pdfs. It's even possible to just copy and paste from them if there's any transcriptions missing. 

Volume 17 is called "Unto this Last, Munera Pulveris and Time and Tide with other writings on Political Economy (1860-1873)" and based on the introduction, those, plus another entitled "The Political Economy of Art," seem to be his only essays dedicated exclusively to political economy. Would that be a possible separate production? (Note: I'm not fully committed to producing it myself right now as it might be a bit long and missing transcriptions; just feeling out the waters) 

Alex Cabal

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Aug 16, 2022, 5:11:12 PMAug 16
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I really don't know, we have to look at his whole corpus and decide how
our own omnibuses might be themed. On one hand 39 different omnibuses is
too much, but on the other hand and off the top of my head I don't think
"political economy" is a broad enough theme for a single collection.
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Lukas Bystricky

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Aug 17, 2022, 1:04:07 PMAug 17
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39 volumes is a bit misleading because quite a few of them contain either complete books, or poetry or things we don't want at all like picture heavy works, stuff that he'd edited but not written, an index, bibliography etc. 

The major essays collections/lectures are as follows:
Volume XII: 
  1. Lectures on Architecture and Painting
  2. Reviews, Letters, and Pamphlets on Art
Volume XIII:
  1. The Harbours of England 
  2. Turner's Works at the National Gallery
Volume XIV:
  1. Academy Notes (Notes on painting)
  2. Letters and Papers on Pictures and Artists
  3. Notes on Samuel Prout and William Hunt
Volume XV:
  1. The Elements of Drawing
  2. The Elements of Perspective
  3. Laws of Fésole: A Familiar Treatise on the Elementary Principles and Practice of Drawing and Painting as Determined by the Tuscan Masters
Volume XVI:
  1. A Joy Forever (Originally published as the Political Economy of Art)
  2. The Two Paths: being Lectures on Art, and Its Application to Decoration and Manufacture
Volume XVII:
  1. Unto This Last: Four Essays on the First Principles of Political Economy
  2. Munera Pulveris: Six Essays on the Elements of Political Economy
  3. Time and Tide, by Weare and Tyne: Twenty-five Letters to a Working Man of Sunderland on the Laws of Work
Volume XVIII:
  1. Sesame and Lilies (Essays on education)
  2. The Ethics of the Dust: Ten Lectures to Little Housewives on the Elements of Crystallisation 
  3. The Crown of Wild Olive: Three Lectures on Work, Traffic and War
Volume XIX:
  1. The Cestus of Aglaia (Art judgment)
  2. The Queen of the Air: A Study of the Greek Myths of Cloud and Storm 
Volume XX:
  1. Lectures on Art
  2. Aratra Pentelici: Six Lectures on the Elements of Sculpture
  3. Notes on Greek Art and Mythology
Volume XXII:
  1. Lectures on Landscape
  2. The Eagle's Nest: Ten Lectures on the Relation of Natural Science to Art
  3. Ariadne Florentina': Six Lectures on Wood and Metal Engraving
Volume XXIII:
  1. Val d'Arno: Ten Lectures on the Tuscan Art
  2. Mornings in Florence: Simple Studies of Christian Art
  3. The Aesthetic and Mathematic School of Art in Florence
Volume XXV:
  1. Love's Meinie: Lectures on Greek and English Birds
  2. Proserpina: Studies of Wayside Flowers
Volume XVI:
  1. Deucalion: Collected Studies of the Lapse of Waves, and Life of Stones
Volume XVII - XXIX:
  1. Fors Clavigera: Letters to the Workmen and Labourers of Great Britain
Volume XXXI:
  1. Bibliotheca Pastorum (A collection of translations and adaptations)
Volume XXXIII:
  1. The Bible of Amiens
  2. The Art of England
  3. The Pleasures of England
Volume XXXIV:
  1. The Storm-Cloud of the Nineteenth Century (at first glance it seems to be literally a study of clouds)

There are of course various letters, pamphlets and the like which we may or may not wish to include but I think this gives the general picture. The main observation I have is that really, the vast majority of his writings were related to art criticism. His works on political economy are: Volume XVII, potentially one essay in Volume XVI, and the three volumes of Fors Clavigera (according to the editors though Fors Clavigera is really a loose collection of letters about a wide variety of topics). I don't see any other obvious division, and it would be a bit strange/unwieldy to include everything in a single omnibus. 

Another observation is that these are almost all quite long. I didn't get a page count for all of them, but the ones I looked at were all at least 50 pages, and most were in the 150-200 range. (For reference, Unto This Last is around 100 pages/30,000 words). In other words, I think a lot of the above could qualify for standalone productions if word count is the only criteria. 

Alex Cabal

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Aug 18, 2022, 6:44:22 PMAug 18
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Fors Clavigera is social criticism/moral philosophy and is in fact
already on our wanted list. At the time it was added, there was no good
transcription.

We don't want any of the art criticism stuff or the science/craft stuff.
That probably cuts out most of his corpus.

Can you put together a more organized proposal of what our collections
might look like given that we do and don't want of them?

On 8/17/22 12:04 PM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
> 39 volumes is a bit misleading because quite a few of them contain
> either complete books, or poetry or things we don't want at all like
> picture heavy works, stuff that he'd edited but not written, an index,
> bibliography etc.
>
> The major essays collections/lectures are as follows:
> Volume XII:
>
> 1. Lectures on Architecture and Painting
> 2. Reviews, Letters, and Pamphlets on Art
>
> Volume XIII:
>
> 1. The Harbours of England
> 2. Turner's Works at the National Gallery
>
> Volume XIV:
>
> 1. Academy Notes (Notes on painting)
> 2. Letters and Papers on Pictures and Artists
> 3. Notes on Samuel Prout and William Hunt
>
> Volume XV:
>
> 1. The Elements of Drawing
> 2. The Elements of Perspective
> 3. Laws of Fésole: A Familiar Treatise on the Elementary Principles and
> Practice of Drawing and Painting as Determined by the Tuscan Masters
>
> Volume XVI:
>
> 1. A Joy Forever (Originally published as the Political Economy of Art)
> 2. The Two Paths: being Lectures on Art, and Its Application to
> Decoration and Manufacture
>
> Volume XVII:
>
> 1. Unto This Last: Four Essays on the First Principles of Political Economy
> 2. Munera Pulveris: Six Essays on the Elements of Political Economy
> 3. Time and Tide, by Weare and Tyne: Twenty-five Letters to a Working
> Man of Sunderland on the Laws of Work
>
> Volume XVIII:
>
> 1. Sesame and Lilies (Essays on education)
> 2. The Ethics of the Dust: Ten Lectures to Little Housewives on the
> Elements of Crystallisation
> 3. The Crown of Wild Olive: Three Lectures on Work, Traffic and War
>
> Volume XIX:
>
> 1. The Cestus of Aglaia (Art judgment)
> 2. The Queen of the Air: A Study of the Greek Myths of Cloud and Storm
>
> Volume XX:
>
> 1. Lectures on Art
> 2. Aratra Pentelici: Six Lectures on the Elements of Sculpture
> 3. Notes on Greek Art and Mythology
>
> Volume XXII:
>
> 1. Lectures on Landscape
> 2. The Eagle's Nest: Ten Lectures on the Relation of Natural Science to Art
> 3. Ariadne Florentina': Six Lectures on Wood and Metal Engraving
>
> Volume XXIII:
>
> 1. Val d'Arno: Ten Lectures on the Tuscan Art
> 2. Mornings in Florence: Simple Studies of Christian Art
> 3. The Aesthetic and Mathematic School of Art in Florence
>
> Volume XXV:
>
> 1. Love's Meinie: Lectures on Greek and English Birds
> 2. Proserpina: Studies of Wayside Flowers
>
> Volume XVI:
>
> 1. Deucalion: Collected Studies of the Lapse of Waves, and Life of Stones
>
> Volume XVII - XXIX:
>
> 1. Fors Clavigera: Letters to the Workmen and Labourers of Great Britain
>
> Volume XXXI:
>
> 1. Bibliotheca Pastorum (A collection of translations and adaptations)
>
> Volume XXXIII:
>
> 1. The Bible of Amiens
> 2. The Art of England
> 3. The Pleasures of England
>
> Volume XXXIV:
>
> 1. The Storm-Cloud of the Nineteenth Century (at first glance it seems
> to be literally a study of clouds)
>
>
> There are of course various letters, pamphlets and the like which we may
> or may not wish to include but I think this gives the general picture.
> The main observation I have is that really, the vast majority of his
> writings were related to art criticism. His works on political economy
> are: Volume XVII, potentially one essay in Volume XVI, and the three
> volumes of /Fors Clavigera/ (according to the editors though /Fors
> Clavigera/ is really a loose collection of letters about a wide variety
> of topics). I don't see any other obvious division, and it would be a
> bit strange/unwieldy to include everything in a single omnibus.
>
> Another observation is that these are almost all quite long. I didn't
> get a page count for all of them, but the ones I looked at were all at
> least 50 pages, and most were in the 150-200 range. (For reference,
> /Unto This Last/ is around 100 pages/30,000 words). In other words, I
> think a lot of the above /could/ qualify for standalone productions if
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>
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Lukas Bystricky

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Aug 22, 2022, 12:09:22 PMAug 22
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Ok, so I think in terms of lectures/essays the following would fit.

1. A Joy Forever (aka The Political Economy of Art) 
2. Unto This Last 

3. The Crown of Wild Olive
4. Munera Pulveris
 Both transcribed here: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/26716

5. Sesame and Lilies 

6. Time and Tide (although this is really a collection of 25 letters, so maybe that doesn't fit)

Fors Clavigera has been partially transcribed, but it should probably be a separate production anyways given its length. 

Alex Cabal

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Aug 22, 2022, 10:20:44 PMAug 22
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Lukas Bystricky

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Aug 23, 2022, 1:02:21 AMAug 23
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I guess so, though it would be relatively long since each of those essays are on the order of 40,000 words. Do we want to include Time and Tide? 

For the title maybe "Social Criticisms"? 

Alex Cabal

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Aug 23, 2022, 10:45:54 AMAug 23
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Well, I don't really know. You have to do the research to see what the
subjects are for these collections, what would be suitable for an
omnibus based on topic, and what their length is. 40k words is our
cutoff for individual productions but if some are shorter we may want to
wrap them all together anyway.
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Lukas Bystricky

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Aug 23, 2022, 2:24:41 PMAug 23
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The subjects are mentioned above, but they all fall generally under social criticism. For "Time and Tide" I was more wondering whether or not we want to include letters in this collection or just essays/lectures. 

The lengths are very roughly as follows (approximate page count in the Library Edition x 300 words per page):
1. A Joy For Ever - 50,000
2. Unto This Last - 30,000
3. The Crown of Wild Olive - 45,000
4. Munera Pulveris - 50,000
5. Sesame and Lilies - 50,000
6. Time and Tide - 50,000

So none are especially long, but neither are they especially short. If the cutoff is strictly 40,000 it's likely that only "Unto This Last" falls under that. 

Alex Cabal

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Aug 28, 2022, 6:10:41 PMAug 28
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OK. Our cutoff for individual productions is >= 40k words, so actually
just about all of these would work as single productions. I think I
missed the email where you divided them by subject.

If the subjects are varied enough, we could do those 6 as individual
productions the. Unto This Last would be an exception that we could do
individually just to fit it in.

So do these 6 plus Fors Clarivegera constitute our entire interest in
his corpus?
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Lukas Bystricky

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Aug 29, 2022, 1:54:01 PMAug 29
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If we're completely ruling out his art criticism, then I believe these are the only essays of his we want. He does have some short stories and poetry that might be of interest.

I did a more accurate word count, and it turns out that The Crown of Wild Olive is also less than 40,000 words, but the others (minus Unto This Last) are indeed over. 

Alex Cabal

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Aug 29, 2022, 8:34:08 PMAug 29
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OK, let's go for it then. We should add all of these to the wanted list
so we remember to complete them, as well as Fors Clavigera. Can you
categorize them by difficulty and do a PR? Thanks!
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Lukas Bystricky

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Aug 30, 2022, 12:25:47 AMAug 30
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Sure! Give me a couple days. I'll start producing Unto This Last as well. 

Lukas Bystricky

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Sep 14, 2022, 2:18:39 PMSep 14
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It's often difficult with these wide ranging rather abstract books to find a suitable cover, but I think this fits well enough, as a sort of vision of utopia.
Screen Shot 2022-09-14 at 8.14.07 PM.png

The painting is Heroic Landscape with Rainbow by Joseph Anton Koch. (PD proof in link.) 

Alex Cabal

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Sep 14, 2022, 4:15:51 PMSep 14
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Looks good, thanks!

On 9/14/22 1:18 PM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
> It's often difficult with these wide ranging rather abstract books to
> find a suitable cover, but I think this fits well enough, as a sort of
> vision of utopia.
> Screen Shot 2022-09-14 at 8.14.07 PM.png
>
> The painting is /Heroic Landscape with Rainbow
> <https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/439844?what=Paintings&amp;ao=on&amp;showOnly=openAccess&amp;ft=Claude+Lorrain&amp;offset=0&amp;rpp=40&amp;pos=9>
> /by Joseph Anton Koch. (PD proof in link.)
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Lukas Bystricky

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Sep 14, 2022, 5:05:06 PMSep 14
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Ok, I think this is ready for
review: https://github.com/lukasbystricky/john-ruskin_unto-this-last

One note, there were a couple endnotes that used some simple math
equations, as follows:
[image: Screen Shot 2022-09-14 at 10.58.54 PM.png]

I figured MathML would be a massive overkill so I marked the variables *x*
and *y* as graphemes, and their product as separate graphemes with a
no-break space between them. Does that sound reasonable? Note that running
typogrify removes the no-break space.

David Grigg

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Sep 14, 2022, 5:25:59 PMSep 14
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We used a detail of the proposed cover for The Wizard of Oz. Might not matter?
On 15 Sep 2022, 4:18 AM +1000, Lukas Bystricky <lukasby...@gmail.com>, wrote:
It's often difficult with these wide ranging rather abstract books to find a suitable cover, but I think this fits well enough, as a sort of vision of utopia.
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Weijia Cheng

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Sep 14, 2022, 5:58:00 PMSep 14
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Fwiw, eyeballing based off the rainbow, it looks like the two crops use a different portion of the painting.

Lukas Bystricky

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Sep 15, 2022, 12:53:37 AMSep 15
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Yeah I think so too, it's not obvious that they're from the same painting. I guess I don't really mind changing covers though if there's a preference for that. I found several that I was more or less indifferent between. 

Alex Cabal

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Sep 15, 2022, 11:32:47 AMSep 15
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What were the other ones?

On 9/14/22 11:53 PM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
> Yeah I think so too, it's not obvious that they're from the same
> painting. I guess I don't really mind changing covers though if there's
> a preference for that. I found several that I was more or less
> indifferent between.
>
> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 11:58:00 PM UTC+2
> weijia...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Fwiw, eyeballing based off the rainbow, it looks like the two crops
> use a different portion of the painting.
>
> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 2:25:59 PM UTC-7
> david...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> We used a detail of the proposed cover for The Wizard of Oz.
> Might not matter?
> On 15 Sep 2022, 4:18 AM +1000, Lukas Bystricky
> <lukasby...@gmail.com>, wrote:
>> It's often difficult with these wide ranging rather abstract
>> books to find a suitable cover, but I think this fits well
>> enough, as a sort of vision of utopia.
>> <Screen Shot 2022-09-14 at 8.14.07 PM.png>
>>
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Lukas Bystricky

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Sep 15, 2022, 11:52:13 AMSep 15
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I haven't cropped it, but this one
<https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/437042?what=Oil+paint&amp;ft=shepherd&amp;offset=0&amp;rpp=40&amp;pos=29>could
work too. The shepherd motif representing hard work and simplicity.

Alex Cabal

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Sep 15, 2022, 11:54:47 AMSep 15
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I like that one - let's use that instead. Thanks!
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Lukas Bystricky

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Sep 15, 2022, 12:15:12 PMSep 15
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Sounds good. I updated and pushed it.

Alex Cabal

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Sep 17, 2022, 7:50:40 PMSep 17
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OK, looks very good, thanks! I've gone ahead and released it.

For variables that don't need full MathML, you can use <var>. Word
joiners are not required because the Unicode line break algorithm
doesn't allow breaks between letters anyway.

On 9/14/22 4:05 PM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
> Ok, I think this is ready for
> review: https://github.com/lukasbystricky/john-ruskin_unto-this-last
>
> One note, there were a couple endnotes that used some simple math
> equations, as follows:
> Screen Shot 2022-09-14 at 10.58.54 PM.png
>
> I figured MathML would be a massive overkill so I marked the variables
> /x/ and /y/ as graphemes, and their product as separate graphemes with a
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Lukas Bystricky

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Sep 18, 2022, 6:03:59 AMSep 18
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Ah I see. As far as I can tell, that's not in MoS. Should it maybe be added
under the math subsection? If so, I can submit a PR.

Also, I noticed you removed a quotation I'd included in the long
description. What's the reason for that? My reason for including it was to
give a potential reader a sense of Ruskin's writing style, which can be
quite difficult. (To be clear, this is a question, for future productions,
not a criticism.)

Alex Cabal

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Sep 18, 2022, 12:31:43 PMSep 18
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Sure, you can open a PR, I think that's a good idea.

The long description is to summarize the work and themes in your own
words. Including very long quotes is taking the shortcut - if you want
to include detail about an idea in the book, it should be phrased in
your own words and not the book's.
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Lukas Bystricky

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Sep 18, 2022, 1:01:03 PMSep 18
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Ok, I'll submit a PR.

To be fair, I think I did summarize the ideas (which is all the stuff you
left in), it was only a two sentence quote that I thought complemented what
I wrote and gave an example of Ruskin's style. It's certainly not critical,
but I also don't think it was out of place. As always your call though.
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