Typo in "Twenty Thousand Leagues..."?

[Szymon Szott]

Hi everyone!

I'm reading and very much enjoying the excellent production quality of Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Seas by Jules Verne. Thank you Alex!

I was intrigued when I noticed the reference to the capital of Australia may have been misspelled:

I imagine that steamboat belonged to the Peninsular & Oriental line, which provides service from the island of Ceylon to Sidney, also calling at King George Sound and Melbourne.

It's also spelled Sidney in the PG source, so I went looking on Wikipedia and in dictionaries, but nowhere could I confirm the peculiar Sidney spelling of Sydney. Finally, I looked at scans of the original French version and found Sydney as well:
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8600258f/f215.item.zoom

If you agree it's a typo then the upstream source (PG) would need to be informed as well.

Best,

Szymon

[Alex Cabal]

I'll go ahead and correct that. IIRC this was a modern translation
produced for PG, so there are no page scans to refer to. Since it's
already modern we can consider it a typo.

On 7/19/20 4:54 AM, Szymon Szott wrote:
> Hi everyone!
>
> I'm reading and very much enjoying the excellent production quality of
> Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Seas by Jules Verne. Thank you Alex!
>
> I was intrigued when I noticed the reference to the capital of Australia
> may have been misspelled:
>
> I imagine that steamboat belonged to the Peninsular & Oriental line,

> which provides service from the island of Ceylon to *Sidney*, also

> calling at King George Sound and Melbourne.
>
>
> It's also spelled Sidney in the PG source, so I went looking on
> Wikipedia and in dictionaries, but nowhere could I confirm the peculiar
> Sidney spelling of Sydney. Finally, I looked at scans of the original
> French version and found Sydney as well:
> https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8600258f/f215.item.zoom
>
> If you agree it's a typo then the upstream source (PG) would need to be
> informed as well.
>
> Best,
> Szymon
>

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[Szymon Szott]

Hi!

I have some further corrections to add to "20,000 Leauges..." and I wanted to do this through GitHub but I'm not sure how to proceed. I managed to commit one change, create a pull request which Alex accepted (with a minor modification). This made my branch "1 commit ahead, 1 commit behind standardebooks:master". I couldn't find an option to update my fork, so I tried reverting my commit, but now I'm "2 commits ahead, 1 commit behind standardebooks:master." As the Texan saying goes: if you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging ;-) So I've stopped digging and I'm asking here: how do I proceed with syncing my fork?

https://github.com/SzymonSzott/jules-verne_twenty-thousand-leagues-under-the-seas_f-p-walter

Best,

Szymon

[Vince]

Do a web search for that question. I had to do that when I encountered this problem, and I had to do it the next time, too, because I couldn’t remember the answer from the first time. :)

[Szymon Szott]

I forgot to add that I'm not entirely sure what the solution is called.

I tried "syncing a fork"

https://docs.github.com/en/github/collaborating-with-issues-and-pull-requests/syncing-a-fork

which boils down to:

 git fetch upstream

 git merge upstream/master

This worked, but now I'm "3 commits ahead of standardebooks:master." Is this were I should be? I think if I now implement my suggested change, make another commit and do a pull request then I'll be requesting all 4 commits to be "pulled in" and I only want the latest one to be.

Best,

Szymon

On Saturday, July 25, 2020 at 6:36:18 PM UTC+2, Vince wrote:

Do a web search for that question. I had to do that when I encountered this problem, and I had to do it the next time, too, because I couldn’t remember the answer from the first time. :)

[Alex Cabal]

That's right. You have 3 commits locally that are not part of the Github
repo. Thus, you're 3 commits ahead of se:master.

On 7/25/20 12:20 PM, Szymon Szott wrote:
> I forgot to add that I'm not entirely sure what the solution is called.
>
> I tried "syncing a fork"
> https://docs.github.com/en/github/collaborating-with-issues-and-pull-requests/syncing-a-fork
> which boils down to:
>  git fetch upstream
>  git merge upstream/master
>
> This worked, but now I'm "3 commits ahead of standardebooks:master." Is
> this were I should be? I think if I now implement my suggested change,
> make another commit and do a pull request then I'll be requesting all 4
> commits to be "pulled in" and I only want the latest one to be.
>
> Best,
> Szymon
>
> On Saturday, July 25, 2020 at 6:36:18 PM UTC+2, Vince wrote:
>
> Do a web search for that question. I had to do that when I
> encountered this problem, and I had to do it the next time, too,
> because I couldn’t remember the answer from the first time. :)
>
>
> > On Jul 25, 2020, at 10:16 AM, Szymon Szott <szymo...@gmail.com

> <javascript:>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> > I have some further corrections to add to "20,000 Leauges..." and
> I wanted to do this through GitHub but I'm not sure how to proceed.
> I managed to commit one change, create a pull request which Alex
> accepted (with a minor modification). This made my branch "1 commit
> ahead, 1 commit behind standardebooks:master". I couldn't find an
> option to update my fork, so I tried reverting my commit, but now
> I'm "2 commits ahead, 1 commit behind standardebooks:master." As the
> Texan saying goes: if you find yourself in a hole, the first thing
> to do is stop digging ;-) So I've stopped digging and I'm asking
> here: how do I proceed with syncing my fork?
> >
> https://github.com/SzymonSzott/jules-verne_twenty-thousand-leagues-under-the-seas_f-p-walter

> <https://github.com/SzymonSzott/jules-verne_twenty-thousand-leagues-under-the-seas_f-p-walter>

>
>
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[François Grandjean]

This won’t help you with your current predicament, but might help you avoid that problem in the future (assuming I understood it correctly): as a rule of thumb, don’t commit directly to your master branch.

It doesn’t matter much when you work alone, but it’s a good habit to develop for when you work with other people—I found this out the hard way. Branches in Git are cheap, so whenever you need to work on something, create a new branch, do your work on it, and then merge the changes to your master branch, after which you can delete the working branch if you feel like it.

Likewise, when you fork a repo, create and switch to a new branch in your fork, do your changes, then initiate the pull request from it. That way if your changes are accepted and merged in the main repo, you can simply switch back to the master branch on your fork and pull the changes from the main repo. Everything should be synchronised correctly.

[Szymon Szott]

Merci François! That is the answer I was looking for.  For anyone interested, the technical commands to execute this are listed here:

https://poanchen.github.io/blog/2017/11/12/How-to-create-a-GitHub-pull-request-with-a-specific-commits

Best,

Szymon

[Alex Cabal]

Interesting. This was a very early ebook we did, produced in 2014. The
Wayback Machine has a entry from 2016, which looks like the one we used:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160317074550/http://www.gutenberg.org/files/2488/2488-h/2488-h.htm

Note how the old version does not contain a copyright notice, only the
standard PG boilerplate. It does state that it's a modern translation by
F. P. Walter, but given the PG boilerplate and lack of copyright notice
it was assumed to have been granted to the public domain.

I'm fairly certain F. P. Walter passed away before 2014 so maybe this
was an automated PG update. Let me ask them to see.

On 9/14/21 11:21 AM, JDBC wrote:
> Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Seas published in Standard Ebooks are
> not in Public Domain.
>
> This text was translated by *Frederick Paul Walter* from French to
> English after 1925, so english translation of original book is NOT in
> public domain.
> https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Author:Frederick_Paul_Walter
>
> Translations are not in public domain, only original Jules Verne text in
> French.
>
> I do not why this book it is in Gutenberg project, because it is
> COPYRIGHTED by Frederick Paul Walter:
> https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2488
>
> Best, JDBC

>
> El domingo, 19 de julio de 2020 a las 11:55:36 UTC+2, Szymon Szott escribió:
>
> Hi everyone!
>
> I'm reading and very much enjoying the excellent production quality
> of Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Seas by Jules Verne. Thank you
> Alex!
>
> I was intrigued when I noticed the reference to the capital of
> Australia may have been misspelled:
>
> I imagine that steamboat belonged to the Peninsular & Oriental
> line, which provides service from the island of Ceylon to

> *Sidney*, also calling at King George Sound and Melbourne.

>
>
> It's also spelled Sidney in the PG source, so I went looking on
> Wikipedia and in dictionaries, but nowhere could I confirm the
> peculiar Sidney spelling of Sydney. Finally, I looked at scans of
> the original French version and found Sydney as well:
> https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8600258f/f215.item.zoom
> <https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8600258f/f215.item.zoom>
>
> If you agree it's a typo then the upstream source (PG) would need to
> be informed as well.
>
> Best,
> Szymon
>

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[Anthony J. Bentley]

According to Wikisource:

“2001 F. P. Walter translation donated to Project Gutenberg.”
https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/20,000_Leagues_Under_the_Seas_(Walter)

On September 14, 2021 11:21:07 AM CDT, JDBC <jdbc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Seas published in Standard Ebooks are not in Public Domain.

This text was translated by Frederick Paul Walter from French to English after 1925, so english translation of original book is NOT in public domain.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Author:Frederick_Paul_Walter

Translations are not in public domain, only original Jules Verne text in French.

I do not why this book it is in Gutenberg project, because it is COPYRIGHTED by Frederick Paul Walter:

https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2488

Best, JDBC

El domingo, 19 de julio de 2020 a las 11:55:36 UTC+2, Szymon Szott escribió:

[Alex Cabal]

OK, PG has gotten back to me on the matter. The header was incorrect in
the old version, which we used to produce our own edition, and the
translation has always been copyrighted. However, PG says it's licensed
for "unlimited free distribution".

So, since we can distribute it free, what I propose is to leave our
current edition online for now (as opposed to taking it down
immediately), and in the meantime, locate an actual public domain
English translation that we can produce. Then we can replace the current
edition with the new one.

We can of course reuse the cover and metadata, so that should speed up
production considerably.

Is anyone interested in picking up that task?

On 9/14/21 10:57 PM, 'Anthony J. Bentley' via Standard Ebooks wrote:
> According to Wikisource:
>
> “2001 F. P. Walter translation donated to Project Gutenberg.”
> https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/20,000_Leagues_Under_the_Seas_(Walter)
> <https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/20,000_Leagues_Under_the_Seas_(Walter)>
>
> On September 14, 2021 11:21:07 AM CDT, JDBC <jdbc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Seas published in Standard Ebooks
> are not in Public Domain.
>

> This text was translated by *Frederick Paul Walter* from French to

> English after 1925, so english translation of original book is NOT
> in public domain.
> https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Author:Frederick_Paul_Walter
>
> Translations are not in public domain, only original Jules Verne
> text in French.
>
> I do not why this book it is in Gutenberg project, because it is
> COPYRIGHTED by Frederick Paul Walter:
> https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2488
>
> Best, JDBC
>
> El domingo, 19 de julio de 2020 a las 11:55:36 UTC+2, Szymon Szott
> escribió:
>
> Hi everyone!
>
> I'm reading and very much enjoying the excellent production
> quality of Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Seas by Jules
> Verne. Thank you Alex!
>
> I was intrigued when I noticed the reference to the capital of
> Australia may have been misspelled:
>
> I imagine that steamboat belonged to the Peninsular &
> Oriental line, which provides service from the island of

> Ceylon to *Sidney*, also calling at King George Sound and

> Melbourne.
>
>
> It's also spelled Sidney in the PG source, so I went looking on
> Wikipedia and in dictionaries, but nowhere could I confirm the
> peculiar Sidney spelling of Sydney. Finally, I looked at scans
> of the original French version and found Sydney as well:
> https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8600258f/f215.item.zoom
> <https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8600258f/f215.item.zoom>
>
> If you agree it's a typo then the upstream source (PG) would
> need to be informed as well.
>
> Best,
> Szymon
>

> --
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[Vince]

The first entry at PG for it is from 1994; there’s a note at the beginning that says it was done “when proofing methods and tools were not well-developed,” and points to an improved illustrated edition at 2488. From your earlier email, that one (2488) appears to be what we used for our current edition.

The text in the earlier one is definitely different than the one we have; if the earlier one is acceptable, I’ll do it.

[Vince]

There’s also a different one in The World’s Greatest Books. It seems at first glance much more readable, but perhaps not as accurate.

I’ll do a little investigation to see what the interwebs have to say, and maybe ping François and see what he thinks.

[Alex Cabal]

Yes, that appears to be this 1906 edition:
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Twenty_Thousand_Leagues_Under_the_Sea/eS1FAQAAMAAJ

Though it appears to be based on the 1873 Mercier translation which
Wikipedia says is a very bad translation. (cork jackets was the giveaway
in the PG transcription)

I think you're right, more research is required so we can find a better
translation if possible.

On 9/15/21 2:04 PM, Vince wrote:
> The first entry <https://www.gutenberg.org/files/164/164-h/164-h.htm> at

> PG for it is from 1994; there’s a note at the beginning that says it was
> done “when proofing methods and tools were not well-developed,” and
> points to an improved illustrated edition at 2488. From your earlier
> email, that one (2488) appears to be what we used for our current edition.
>
> The text in the earlier one is definitely different than the one we
> have; if the earlier one is acceptable, I’ll do it.
>
>
>> On Sep 15, 2021, at 1:55 PM, Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org

>> <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>> wrote:
>>
>> OK, PG has gotten back to me on the matter. The header was incorrect
>> in the old version, which we used to produce our own edition, and the
>> translation has always been copyrighted. However, PG says it's
>> licensed for "unlimited free distribution".
>>
>> So, since we can distribute it free, what I propose is to leave our
>> current edition online for now (as opposed to taking it down
>> immediately), and in the meantime, locate an actual public domain
>> English translation that we can produce. Then we can replace the
>> current edition with the new one.
>>
>> We can of course reuse the cover and metadata, so that should speed up
>> production considerably.
>>
>> Is anyone interested in picking up that task?
>

> --
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[François Grandjean]

I can also look at it later, once I’m finally home.

[Vince]

Never mind, the World’s Greatest Books isn’t the entire book. And the other one is apparently the Mercier edition that no one likes. This might not have a good solution.

[Robin Whittleton]

Hi JDBC,

Can I just say thanks for bringing this to our attention. Correct PD attribution is never easy, and alerting when things aren’t quite right is super useful.

-Robin

On 14 Sep 2021, at 18:21, JDBC <jdbc...@gmail.com> wrote:



Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Seas published in Standard Ebooks are not in Public Domain.

This text was translated by Frederick Paul Walter from French to English after 1925, so english translation of original book is NOT in public domain.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Author:Frederick_Paul_Walter

Translations are not in public domain, only original Jules Verne text in French.

I do not why this book it is in Gutenberg project, because it is COPYRIGHTED by Frederick Paul Walter:

https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2488

Best, JDBC

El domingo, 19 de julio de 2020 a las 11:55:36 UTC+2, Szymon Szott escribió:

Hi everyone!

I'm reading and very much enjoying the excellent production quality of Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Seas by Jules Verne. Thank you Alex!

I was intrigued when I noticed the reference to the capital of Australia may have been misspelled:

I imagine that steamboat belonged to the Peninsular & Oriental line, which provides service from the island of Ceylon to Sidney, also calling at King George Sound and Melbourne.

It's also spelled Sidney in the PG source, so I went looking on Wikipedia and in dictionaries, but nowhere could I confirm the peculiar Sidney spelling of Sydney. Finally, I looked at scans of the original French version and found Sydney as well:
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8600258f/f215.item.zoom

If you agree it's a typo then the upstream source (PG) would need to be informed as well.

Best,

Szymon

--

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[Vince]

(Our earlier emails crossed in the sending.)

I’ve searched Hathi, Google, and Archive just for scans, forget transcriptions. First, there are almost none available, and the ones that are, are all Mercier.

From other searching about the translations, it appears that new ones weren’t done until around the time of the one that Walter donated to PG (he subsequently did more updates to that one). I haven’t seen any mention of anything but Mercier until the 1980’s.

I’ll dig around some more, but it doesn’t look very promising.

[Vince]

I found one by Henry Frith, created around the same time. Apparently not as bad as Mercier, but not great, either. (Here’s a web site talking about it.) 

I haven’t found a transcription; if one is required, I’ll have to bow out. I already have a long transcription on the docket, and I don’t want to do that until I finish Gibbon. If I find a transcription and this one is acceptable to everyone, I’ll be glad to create it.

[Vince]

After quite a bit more searching around, I have not found references to any other PD translations. Of course, Frith isn’t mentioned by most places, either (none on Wiki, e.g.). Nor have I found any digital text of his translation; even a couple of Amazon Kindle versions that claim to be his are Lewis’.

He uses “wild territory” for the badlands of Nebraska, rather than the “disagreeable territory” of Lewis.

The mention of cork-jacket in chapter 15 doesn’t exist in Frith; he excised the sentence, I guess?

The other “cork-jacket” references I looked in Frith at all use “divers’ dresses” or “diving dresses”. I’m not sure if that’s better or worse.

So, at this point I don’t see any good options. It would appear to be either a bad translation, or nothing. Unless we can determine a way to keep the one we have.

[François Grandjean]

Haven’t found anything either. I’ve never had that problem before because I’ve always read Verne in his original French, but after joining SE I discovered that he had been badly served by poor English translations. I guess that unless someone decides to create a new translation and dedicate it to PD, we’re going to be stuck.

[Alex Cabal]

OK, so unfortunately it looks like we'll just have to take it down. I
would prefer no translation than a known bad one. But this may be a good
opportunity to use HTTP 451...

I'll work on this later this week, as I've been quite busy lately

On 9/17/21 7:53 AM, François Grandjean wrote:
> Haven’t found anything either. I’ve never had that problem before
> because I’ve always read Verne in his original French, but after joining
> SE I discovered that he had been badly served by poor English
> translations. I guess that unless someone decides to create a new
> translation and dedicate it to PD, we’re going to be stuck.
>
> On Thursday, 16 September 2021 at 20:27:05 UTC-5 Vince wrote:
>
> After quite a bit more searching around, I have not found references
> to any other PD translations. Of course, Frith isn’t mentioned by
> most places, either (none on Wiki, e.g.). Nor have I found any
> digital text of his translation; even a couple of Amazon Kindle
> versions that claim to be his are Lewis’.
>
> He uses “wild territory” for the badlands of Nebraska, rather than
> the “disagreeable territory” of Lewis.
> The mention of cork-jacket in chapter 15 doesn’t exist in Frith; he
> excised the sentence, I guess?
> The other “cork-jacket” references I looked in Frith at all use
> “divers’ dresses” or “diving dresses”. I’m not sure if that’s better
> or worse.
>
> So, at this point I don’t see any good options. It would appear to
> be either a bad translation, or nothing. Unless we can determine a
> way to keep the one we have.
>
>
>> On Sep 15, 2021, at 3:00 PM, Vince <vr_se...@letterboxes.org> wrote:
>>

>> I found one <https://ufdc.ufl.edu/AA00009645> by Henry Frith,

>> created around the same time. Apparently not as bad as Mercier,
>> but not great, either. (Here’s a web site

>> <http://www.verniana.org/volumes/07/HTML/Everyman.html> talking

>> about it.)
>>
>> I haven’t found a transcription; if one is required, I’ll have to
>> bow out. I already have a long transcription on the docket, and I
>> don’t want to do that until I finish Gibbon. If I find a
>> transcription and this one is acceptable to everyone, I’ll be glad
>> to create it.
>>
>>
>>> On Sep 15, 2021, at 2:35 PM, Vince <vr_se...@letterboxes.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> (Our earlier emails crossed in the sending.)
>>>

>>> I’ve searched Hathi, Google, and Archive just for/scans/, forget

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[Asher Smith]

Does it make sense to contact the translator and ask if they're interested in dedicating it to the public domain? I don't see a downside to asking them.

[Alex Cabal]

I asked PG about that already but they said the guy is keen on
maintaining his copyright.

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/fbc8e034-2283-4ebd-8d85-5794936fdeben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
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>
>
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