[First project] The Castle of Wolfenbach by Eliza Parsons

Melody Adorable

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Jul 2, 2024, 1:55:06 PM7/2/24

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It's on the wanted e-books list for first-time producers, linking to this transcription from PG Australia, Page scans for Volume I and Volume II from 1793 are on archive.org. Separate scans from an 1854 edition are on google books. Should be plenty to work with and compare against.

Alex Cabal

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Jul 2, 2024, 4:18:46 PM7/2/24

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Great, you can work on this.

Use the later page scans as the earlier page scans are pretty archaic
(long S, etc.)

Since there are no chapters I think we should keep the volume divisions.

I see a few sections of verse and letters, see the manual for copy and
paste formatting.

You'll also need a subtitle in the metadata ("A German Story"), see the
manual for how to do that as well.

Make sure to read the Standard Ebooks Manual of Style before starting,
as you won't know what to fix if you haven't read the standards. In
particular, please closely review the semantics, high level patterns,
and typography sections:

https://standardebooks.org/manual

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography

The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:

https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step

Please email often if you have any questions at all. Our standards are
well-established so there is probably already a standard for formatting
whatever problem you've encountered.

When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github repository so
that I can mark you as having started.

Have fun! :)

On 7/2/24 12:55 PM, Melody Adorable wrote:
> It's on the wanted e-books list for first-time producers, linking to
> this transcription from PG Australia

> <https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0606211h.html>, Page scans for Volume
> I
> <https://archive.org/details/bim_eighteenth-century_castle-of-wolfenbach-a-_parsons-mrs-eliza_1793_1/> and Volume II <https://archive.org/details/bim_eighteenth-century_castle-of-wolfenbach-a-_parsons-mrs-eliza_1793_2/> from 1793 are on archive.org. Separate scans from an 1854 edition <https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Castle_of_Wolfenbach/51pPAQAAMAAJ> are on google books. Should be plenty to work with and compare against.
>
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Melody Adorable

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Jul 2, 2024, 4:56:37 PM7/2/24

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I can use the 1854 scans, though they don't preserve the volume break, the transcription does, so I will know where it should be. The source transcription is HTML 4.01 Transitional, not XHTML -- should I convert the header and metadata before the initial commit? The step-by-step assumes a normal PG ebook, and PG Australia seems to have different standards.

Alex Cabal

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Jul 2, 2024, 5:25:00 PM7/2/24

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It doesn't matter, you'll be converting to XHTML no matter what.

On 7/2/24 3:56 PM, Melody Adorable wrote:
> I can use the 1854 scans, though they don't preserve the volume break,
> the transcription does, so I will know where it should be. The source
> transcription is HTML 4.01 Transitional, not XHTML -- should I convert
> the header and metadata before the initial commit? The step-by-step
> assumes a normal PG ebook, and PG Australia seems to have different
> standards.
>
> On Tuesday, July 2, 2024 at 4:18:46 PM UTC-4 Alex Cabal wrote:
>
> Great, you can work on this.
>
> Use the later page scans as the earlier page scans are pretty archaic
> (long S, etc.)
>
> Since there are no chapters I think we should keep the volume
> divisions.
>
> I see a few sections of verse and letters, see the manual for copy and
> paste formatting.
>
> You'll also need a subtitle in the metadata ("A German Story"), see the
> manual for how to do that as well.
>
> Make sure to read the Standard Ebooks Manual of Style before starting,
> as you won't know what to fix if you haven't read the standards. In
> particular, please closely review the semantics, high level patterns,
> and typography sections:
>
> https://standardebooks.org/manual <https://standardebooks.org/manual>
>

> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics
> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics>
>
> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns>
>
> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography

> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography>
>
> The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:
>

> https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step>

>
> Please email often if you have any questions at all. Our standards are
> well-established so there is probably already a standard for formatting
> whatever problem you've encountered.
>
> When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github repository so
> that I can mark you as having started.
>
> Have fun! :)
>
>
> On 7/2/24 12:55 PM, Melody Adorable wrote:
> > It's on the wanted e-books list for first-time producers, linking to
> > this transcription from PG Australia
> > <https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0606211h.html
> <https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0606211h.html>>, Page scans for
> Volume
> > I
> >

> <https://archive.org/details/bim_eighteenth-century_castle-of-wolfenbach-a-_parsons-mrs-eliza_1793_1/ <https://archive.org/details/bim_eighteenth-century_castle-of-wolfenbach-a-_parsons-mrs-eliza_1793_1/>> and Volume II <https://archive.org/details/bim_eighteenth-century_castle-of-wolfenbach-a-_parsons-mrs-eliza_1793_2/ <https://archive.org/details/bim_eighteenth-century_castle-of-wolfenbach-a-_parsons-mrs-eliza_1793_2/>> from 1793 are on archive.org <http://archive.org>. Separate scans from an 1854 edition <https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Castle_of_Wolfenbach/51pPAQAAMAAJ <https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Castle_of_Wolfenbach/51pPAQAAMAAJ>> are on google books. Should be plenty to work with and compare against.

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Melody Adorable

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Jul 2, 2024, 5:28:50 PM7/2/24

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Yep, I figured that out, repo is here https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach

Melody Adorable

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Jul 2, 2024, 8:25:02 PM7/2/24

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I'm up to manually adding semantics and have a couple questions.

1. In the scans, rather than interrupting quotations, short actions and dialog tags are often presented in parenthesis, should I change them back? Example:

“Two travellers, (answered a gentle voice) overtaken by the storm...”

in the transcription these are all rendered like this:

“Two travellers,” answered a gentle voice, “overtaken by the storm...”

2. Most dialogue doesn't start new paragraphs, even when the speaker changes, and when there is no dialogue tag in-between -- I assume I should fix this by adding paragraph breaks for dialogue where a modern reader would expect to see them? if that's correct, should I mark those changes as [Editorial]?

Alex Cabal

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Jul 3, 2024, 2:06:17 PM7/3/24

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On 7/2/24 7:25 PM, Melody Adorable wrote:
> I'm up to manually adding semantics and have a couple questions.
>
> 1. In the scans, rather than interrupting quotations, short actions and
> dialog tags are often presented in parenthesis, should I change them
> back? Example:
>
> “Two travellers, (answered a gentle voice) overtaken by the storm...”
>
> in the transcription these are all rendered like this:
>
> “Two travellers,” answered a gentle voice, “overtaken by the storm...”

This book is old enough that there are probably many different editions
that each do things differently. The transcription is probably from some
different edition. You can leave it as in the transcription as that's a
more modern style.

> 2. Most dialogue doesn't start new paragraphs, even when the speaker
> changes, and when there is no dialogue tag in-between -- I assume I
> should fix this by adding paragraph breaks for dialogue where a modern
> reader would expect to see them? if that's correct, should I mark those
> changes as [Editorial]?

Yes, you could do this; we've done this before for other books of the
era; however it's a lot of work. If you want to do it, then yes, it
would be an [Editorial] commit. I think you can probably get 90% of
cases with a regex using `se interactive-replace`. But you would also
have to proofread carefully to make sure you got them all.

We wouldn't require that you do that though, as that's a lot of work
especially for a first production.

Melody Adorable

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Jul 3, 2024, 3:47:53 PM7/3/24

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The book is old, but it was also not particularly popular and only relatively recently rediscovered as an actual book at all (the title was known due to its appearance in a list of books in Jane Austen's Northanger Abbey, but for many years people thought that it was a book she made up, not a real one), so I'm also relatively confident that the PGA transcription would have had to have been based on one of the scans we know about if it was properly copyright-cleared, the first revival printings weren't until the 1960s. Nonetheless, I think the parenthesis would probably trip people up and there's no reason to make it harder to read out of fidelity to an old copy, I suspect most current editions also modernize the style that way, so I'll leave them alone.

I'm not too worried about the amount of work (famous last words) to fix the paragraphs between bits of dialogue, I have spent the last 2 or 3 weeks transcribing a different ebook for PG from a mediocre OCR (I'm in the final stages of wrapping that one up as I start this), so I'm relatively confident that trying to fix at least the basic cases won't be too bad, especially by comparison, and especially because I think you're right that a good regex would catch a lot of the cases. Thanks!

Melody Adorable

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Jul 3, 2024, 9:11:26 PM7/3/24

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I got to the poetry and adding the semantics I think I've got handled, but in both editions there's this odd little mustache brace thing at the end of the poetry. I'm not sure what to do with it.

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b0000009514&seq=46
https://archive.org/details/bim_eighteenth-century_castle-of-wolfenbach-a-_parsons-mrs-eliza_1793_1/page/70/mode/2up

Alex Cabal

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Jul 4, 2024, 1:10:38 PM7/4/24

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These kinds of braces come up from time to time. It's not possible to
recreate them in HTML/CSS in the general case given ereader CSS
limitations. Therefore we usually replace them with a black border.
However I don't think it will be possible to replicate this exact case
given our default verse formatting. If you feel like your CSS is up to
it, you can try experimenting to see if I'm wrong and if you can get a
black right border on the last of the verse, with "several" to the
right of it.

If not, I'd just move "several" to be the last line of the and put
it in parentheses.

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Melody Adorable

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Jul 4, 2024, 2:09:01 PM7/4/24

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"Several" is just a catchword, not part of the poem, it's the first word on the next page -- for the bookbinder, the brace is in both editions but several is only rendered like that in the one, so I think I only need to deal with the brace. If a black border is how you handle these, that's fine -- is there any particular border style or thickness I should use? I don't recall seeing this in the style manual.

Melody Adorable

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Jul 4, 2024, 2:42:06 PM7/4/24

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A second question -- I know using a one-off class is discouraged, but as this book has no chapter divisions and there are three separate blockquoted poem elements right near each other here, I can't think of any other way to distinguish the last stanza of the last poem than by assigning a class to it, it's not semantically distinct or separated from the others by any discernible element boundary. I've assigned a one-off class for now and styled it to resemble the brace as well as I can (attached photos of both a wider and narrower viewport width)

Hendrik Kaiber

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Jul 4, 2024, 3:01:32 PM7/4/24

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Does blockquote:last-child p:last-child work?

Robin Whittleton

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Jul 4, 2024, 3:12:48 PM7/4/24

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Or :last-of-type if it’s not actually the last child.

-Robin

On 4 Jul 2024, at 21:01, Hendrik Kaiber <hendrik....@gmail.com> wrote:

Does blockquote:last-child p:last-child work?

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Melody Adorable

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Jul 4, 2024, 7:53:40 PM7/4/24

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I don't think there's any more poetry, though I know there to be a letter or two, which are also in blockquotes. I believe `:last-of-type` only cares about the element, not the attribute, so `last-of-type` won't work once I've finished adding semantics.

Robin Whittleton

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Jul 5, 2024, 1:04:17 AM7/5/24

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You can always use :nth-of-type() to target a specific numbered element.

On 5 Jul 2024, at 01:53, Melody Adorable <melthea...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't think there's any more poetry, though I know there to be a letter or two, which are also in blockquotes. I believe `:last-of-type` only cares about the element, not the attribute, so `last-of-type` won't work once I've finished adding semantics.

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Melody Adorable

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Jul 5, 2024, 12:12:11 PM7/5/24

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I've changed it to use :nth-of-type, and am not trying to start an argument or anything, but I'm curious as to why we avoid using classes for things like this. I understood (or thought I understood) that only CSS 2 was safe for compatibility for use in ebooks, so unless I'm wrong this is going to compile down to a one-off class anyway, in the end. Wouldn't using a one-off semantic class sometimes be better than targeting something like "the third blockquote's last p tag in volume one"? I understand preferring to avoid them when there's a reasonable semantic solution, as using too many would certainly clutter up the CSS, especially if they're named as style hooks, but it feels counterproductive to semantic targeting at a certain point to do it this way. There's nothing inherent to a third blockquote's last paragraph tag that would suggest it should get a border, whereas a class like "grouped-verse" would be suggestive of the purpose. Additionally, doing it this way, if somebody discovers I missed something that should have been blockquoted in an earlier passage, the `nth-of-type` style will break and need to be fixed, if the error is noticed, where a class would not. I am willing to and have accepted that this is the way things are, the commit is made and I'm moving forward, I'm just trying to understand why, as it's counterintuitive to me.

Vince Rice

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Jul 5, 2024, 12:25:28 PM7/5/24

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A class of one member isn’t a class, it’s an individual. :) And, in general, we prefer CSS over markup. Similarly, if an entire header is small capped, we would do that in CSS rather than using .

On Jul 5, 2024, at 11:12 AM, Melody Adorable <melthea...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've changed it to use :nth-of-type, and am not trying to start an argument or anything, but I'm curious as to why we avoid using classes for things like this. I understood (or thought I understood) that only CSS 2 was safe for compatibility for use in ebooks, so unless I'm wrong this is going to compile down to a one-off class anyway, in the end. Wouldn't using a one-off semantic class sometimes be better than targeting something like "the third blockquote's last p tag in volume one"? I understand preferring to avoid them when there's a reasonable semantic solution, as using too many would certainly clutter up the CSS, especially if they're named as style hooks, but it feels counterproductive to semantic targeting at a certain point to do it this way. There's nothing inherent to a third blockquote's last paragraph tag that would suggest it should get a border, whereas a class like "grouped-verse" would be suggestive of the purpose. Additionally, doing it this way, if somebody discovers I missed something that should have been blockquoted in an earlier passage, the `nth-of-type` style will break and need to be fixed, if the error is noticed, where a class would not. I am willing to and have accepted that this is the way things are, the commit is made and I'm moving forward, I'm just trying to understand why, as it's counterintuitive to me.

Melody Adorable

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Jul 5, 2024, 12:44:06 PM7/5/24

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I see the philosophical point about a class of one member, but the class of "poetic stanzas grouped by a brace" is not a class of one member, even if it's only expressed once in a particular work, and it feels like being able to express the type semantics of the relationship the lines of this stanza have to each other might be better than hiding that relationship in purely incidental CSS. It feels like, at least in this case, information is being lost because there is no semantic inflection in the vocabulary for the relationship these lines have to each other. Small caps are purely presentational in a way that explicitly linking lines in this way is not, to my mind.

Vince

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Jul 5, 2024, 1:02:00 PM7/5/24

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At the end of the day, it’s the house style that Alex prefers, so that’s what we do.

Melody Adorable

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Jul 5, 2024, 1:09:40 PM7/5/24

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That's ultimately why I've gone ahead and used it, but I wonder whether for cases like this (where there is semantic information being lost, not just stylistic presentation) we might be able to find some other solution -- whether that solution be adding additional hierarchical markup to the tree, creating an additional vocabulary term for this sort of grouping, or something else. If markup is for semantics and the semantics are being lost due to lack of markup, that feels like a problem that is probably distinct from the style hook/one-off class situation in the general case.

Melody Adorable

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Jul 5, 2024, 2:25:07 PM7/5/24

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New, unrelated question -- there's an error in both the scans and the transcription, in the phrase "The poor women, with great nimbleness prepared her supper" -- there is only one woman present who could be doing this in context, if I were to change this to woman it would obviously be editorial, but is fixing this sort of error allowed? Just after this, the transcription has also changed "her guest eat but sparingly" from the scans to "her guest ate but sparingly", should I leave this correction in or change it back? I could change it back as a transcription error in a non-editorial commit, then re-fix it in an editorial one, but I'm not sure how nitpicky I should be here with fidelity to the original scans or errors in the scan editions.

Alex Cabal

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Jul 5, 2024, 4:51:14 PM7/5/24

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Classes are not semantics; they are semantically meaningless ways to
target CSS. No other ereading system is going to understand the
"semantics" of a class because there is no such thing.

We do have some stock classes we use for certain styling cases (like
indented lines in poetry), but any meaning they might have is solely
understood within the SE project, and they are not meant to convey
semantic information to any other consumer.

There's nothing wrong with classes if you have a *class* of elements to
style in an ebook. If there is only one element, a targeted selector is
just as meaningful (i.e., it also has no meaning), but it's less HTML.

>> preferring to avoid them when there's a reasonable /semantic/

>> solution, as using too many would certainly clutter up the CSS,
>> especially if they're named as style hooks, but it feels
>> counterproductive to semantic targeting at a certain point to do
>> it this way. There's nothing inherent to a third blockquote's last
>> paragraph tag that would suggest it should get a border, whereas a
>> class like "grouped-verse" would be suggestive of the purpose.
>> Additionally, doing it this way, if somebody discovers I missed
>> something that should have been blockquoted in an earlier passage,
>> the `nth-of-type` style will break and need to be fixed, if the
>> error is noticed, where a class would not. I am willing to and
>> have accepted that this is the way things are, the commit is made
>> and I'm moving forward, I'm just trying to understand why, as it's
>> counterintuitive to me.
>

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Alex Cabal

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Jul 5, 2024, 4:52:56 PM7/5/24

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Yes you can fix that, as an editorial commit. You don't have to do any
gymnastics for errors PG has already fixed, just keep the fixes.

>>> reasonable /semantic/ solution, as using too many would

>>> certainly clutter up the CSS, especially if they're named
>>> as style hooks, but it feels counterproductive to
>>> semantic targeting at a certain point to do it this way.
>>> There's nothing inherent to a third blockquote's last
>>> paragraph tag that would suggest it should get a border,
>>> whereas a class like "grouped-verse" would be suggestive
>>> of the purpose. Additionally, doing it this way, if
>>> somebody discovers I missed something that should have
>>> been blockquoted in an earlier passage, the `nth-of-type`
>>> style will break and need to be fixed, if the error is
>>> noticed, where a class would not. I am willing to and
>>> have accepted that this is the way things are, the commit
>>> is made and I'm moving forward, I'm just trying to
>>> understand why, as it's counterintuitive to me.
>

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Alex Cabal

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Jul 5, 2024, 4:53:35 PM7/5/24

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border-right: 1px solid;

Omit the color as it will be set by the reading system

> <https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b0000009514&seq=46>
> >
> https://archive.org/details/bim_eighteenth-century_castle-of-wolfenbach-a-_parsons-mrs-eliza_1793_1/page/70/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/bim_eighteenth-century_castle-of-wolfenbach-a-_parsons-mrs-eliza_1793_1/page/70/mode/2up>

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Melody Adorable

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Jul 16, 2024, 2:40:44 PM7/16/24

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I've made the other changes you recommended and have been making a small amount of slow, quiet progress over the past week and change. I made it to the first letter and added the letter semantics and formatting. The letter is being read out loud by a character and the transcription had a lot of nested quoting, and the presentation in the scans was inconsistent, having mistakenly dropped the quote marks for some parts that were definitely still character speech, and then presenting the letter title ("Countess Wolfenbach to the Marchioness") and salutation more like an inline document than speech, while still continuing the quote pattern once it reached the body. I ultimately ended up removing the outer quotations (in an editorial commit, but it's cleaner, more consistent, and reads better this way), the only piece I wasn't particularly sure about was the "title" of the letter, I ended up including it within the letter's header and wrapping it in `` tags, as it's not a true heading that would deserve a ToC entry, but is presented in small caps, but I wasn't entirely sure if it should be outside the letter semantics entirely (is the title before the letter or part of the letter), or outside the letter's header block (which would not exist otherwise, as there's no dateline, just the title and salutation), or if I handled it correctly by making the letter's "title" part of its header.

Alex Cabal

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Jul 17, 2024, 10:57:13 AM7/17/24

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Hard to say without seeing the page scans and the applicable code.
Generally for formatting questions please send a direct link to the page
scan you're referring to, and if possible a link to Github of the code
you're referring to.

> https://archive.org/details/bim_eighteenth-century_castle-of-wolfenbach-a-_parsons-mrs-eliza_1793_1/page/70/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/bim_eighteenth-century_castle-of-wolfenbach-a-_parsons-mrs-eliza_1793_1/page/70/mode/2up> <https://archive.org/details/bim_eighteenth-century_castle-of-wolfenbach-a-_parsons-mrs-eliza_1793_1/page/70/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/bim_eighteenth-century_castle-of-wolfenbach-a-_parsons-mrs-eliza_1793_1/page/70/mode/2up>>

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/724c26f9-47dc-4779-bda5-f7a9b4f271d0n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/724c26f9-47dc-4779-bda5-f7a9b4f271d0n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/724c26f9-47dc-4779-bda5-f7a9b4f271d0n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/724c26f9-47dc-4779-bda5-f7a9b4f271d0n%40googlegroups.com>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/724c26f9-47dc-4779-bda5-f7a9b4f271d0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/724c26f9-47dc-4779-bda5-f7a9b4f271d0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/724c26f9-47dc-4779-bda5-f7a9b4f271d0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/724c26f9-47dc-4779-bda5-f7a9b4f271d0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>>.

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Melody Adorable

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Jul 17, 2024, 12:50:50 PM7/17/24

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The letter pages start here, the older version on archive.org is presented similarly, with the same quotation error, so I won't bother linking to that (I am, however, using both because the older version is useful for confirming formatting and punctuation when it's omitted or wrong in the transcription, the quality of the newer edition's scan is a little worse and commas can be mistaken for periods more easily).

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b0000009514&seq=71

the formatting for this on github starts here

https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/develop/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376

this is the same part of the same file from the commit before I removed the quote nesting

https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/fdcbaa641103e2c4926599b442cbe91285491bbf/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376

and here is a small screenshot of the rendered html for that section, as I have it currently formatted

Just above the linked line is where the mistakenly omitted quote marks are (the scans have an unquoted paragraph "To this letter we received..." which is actually still the character speaking, not the narrator, that had been fixed in the initial transcription). The transcription uses british-style quotations (already processed in my repo), and i can't link to the interior part of the page, but if you search this page (https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0606211h.html) for 'Countess of Wolfenbach, to the Marchioness' you can see how the quoting for the letter was handled during transcription, it puts new opening quotes on the first line of the letter, the title, and the salutation line. The scans didn't do this but was already demonstrably incorrect on that page due to the other quotation error, so it's hard to look there for guidance on intention. I decided to remove the quote nesting because you are still told the character is reading out loud, but presenting it as a letter rather than quoting the contents of the letter as character speech definitely makes it easier to read.

There may be some small issues that should be/should have been caught by typogrify or lint, I'm waiting to run any additional automated checks until I've finished manually proofing and adding semantics to the first volume, as there's been a number of missing or mismatched quotes, dashes, and other punctuation from the transcription and I'd rather run the tools in one pass instead of after every time I fix a transcription error, so please pardon any mistakes of that nature you might notice.

Vince

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Jul 18, 2024, 12:15:30 AM7/18/24

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Alex is the final word, but if the letter is being read out loud it should be quoted—it is dialog, regardless of being in blockquote format—so what the transcription did is essentially correct. Broken into multiple paragraphs as you have it means that each paragraph needs a beginning double quote, and then a single quote to begin the inner quote, if there is one for that paragraph. Since the signature is treated as a separate paragraph, it also should have an opening, and closing, quote.

Adding the missing quote (editorial) to the paragraph above is also correct.

The letter header looks fine (I didn’t look at the file, just your picture), but it should have a 1em bottom margin. The names in the header should have the appropriate tags (sender and recipient).

On Jul 17, 2024, at 11:50 AM, Melody Adorable <melthea...@gmail.com> wrote:

The letter pages start here, the older version on archive.org is presented similarly, with the same quotation error, so I won't bother linking to that (I am, however, using both because the older version is useful for confirming formatting and punctuation when it's omitted or wrong in the transcription, the quality of the newer edition's scan is a little worse and commas can be mistaken for periods more easily).

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b0000009514&seq=71

the formatting for this on github starts here

https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/develop/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376

this is the same part of the same file from the commit before I removed the quote nesting

https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/fdcbaa641103e2c4926599b442cbe91285491bbf/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376

and here is a small screenshot of the rendered html for that section, as I have it currently formatted

Melody Adorable

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Jul 18, 2024, 1:14:11 PM7/18/24

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The transcription had already added the missing quotes, so I wasn't able to localize that change to an editorial commit, I can undo my other editorial commit removing the outer quoting on the letter, but I don't think "Victoria Wolfenbach" would get an end quote there, the same character continues speaking at the start of the next paragraph, IIRC when a character continues speaking on multiple paragraphs, those paragraphs get opening but not closing quotes. The names in the letter title are tagged, and I can add the bottom margin to the title, I had somehow missed the part of the style guide where it gave advice for non-ToC headers.

Alex Cabal

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Jul 18, 2024, 9:08:12 PM7/18/24

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I agree with Vince, though styles do differ and we have examples of both
in the corpus.

The only minor note I would make is that you don't need in that
header; instead, target `#volume-1 blockquote[epub|type~="z3998:letter"]
header p:first-child` for small-caps and remove .

>> <http://archive.org/>is presented similarly, with the same

>> quotation error, so I won't bother linking to that (I am, however,
>> using both because the older version is useful for confirming
>> formatting and punctuation when it's omitted or wrong in the
>> transcription, the quality of the newer edition's scan is a little
>> worse and commas can be mistaken for periods more easily).
>>
>> https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b0000009514&seq=71
>> <https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b0000009514&seq=71>
>>
>> the formatting for this on github starts here
>>

>> https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/develop/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376 <https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/develop/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376>

>>
>> this is the same part of the same file from the commit before I
>> removed the quote nesting
>>

>> https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/fdcbaa641103e2c4926599b442cbe91285491bbf/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376 <https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/fdcbaa641103e2c4926599b442cbe91285491bbf/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376>

>>
>> and here is a small screenshot of the rendered html for that
>> section, as I have it currently formatted
>>
>> <Screenshot 2024-07-17 at 12.37.46.png>
>>
>> Just above the linked line is where the mistakenly omitted quote
>> marks are (the scans have an unquoted paragraph "To this letter we
>> received..." which is actually still the character speaking, not
>> the narrator, that had been fixed in the initial transcription).
>> The transcription uses british-style quotations (already processed
>> in my repo), and i can't link to the interior part of the page,
>> but if you search this page
>> (https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0606211h.html

>> <https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0606211h.html>) for 'Countess

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Melody Adorable

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Jul 19, 2024, 12:22:02 AM7/19/24

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I find it difficult enough to read with the outer quotes that I've got a strong personal preference for removing them, but I can always remove them in a personal copy once I'm done, I don't want to cause any issues, I'll make a personal branch and drop the commit. I had added the `` tag before the guidance on non-ToC headings had been pointed out, so the markup wasn't there to help target the CSS, I was just treating it like an ordinary case of small caps, I'll fix the markup for that too. Thanks.

Melody Adorable

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Aug 11, 2024, 10:57:41 AM8/11/24

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I've finished my first pass on production and resolved all the non-cover and non-metadata-related lint errors, Next up is a close proofreading pass, but because there were so many transcription errors I caught during production, I'm not expecting to find a ton of new stuff going through the whole text again. I don't mind all the extra work this took, I anticipated it, but I'd probably recommend requiring PG transcriptions for first time productions in the future, PG Australia does not seem to match the same general quality standards, and not being able to use the PG metadata imports, etc. might intimidate other beginners.

I'll start looking for covers in parallel with this proofing pass, but I may be dormant for another couple weeks before I have time for either again, but I thought I'd check in with my progress and confirm I'm still moving this forward.

Melody Adorable

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Aug 11, 2024, 7:36:55 PM8/11/24

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I had some more time today and I think for the cover I'd like to use "The Spirit of War" by Jasper Francis Cropsey, it's CC0 on the National Gallery of Art site

https://www.nga.gov/collection/art-object-page.56598.html

I've done a quick mockup of the potential cover as well

Alex Cabal

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Aug 12, 2024, 12:45:20 PM8/12/24

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OK, that works, thanks!

On 8/11/24 6:36 PM, Melody Adorable wrote:
> I had some more time today and I think for the cover I'd like to use
> "The Spirit of War" by Jasper Francis Cropsey, it's CC0 on the National
> Gallery of Art site
>
> https://www.nga.gov/collection/art-object-page.56598.html
>
> I've done a quick mockup of the potential cover as well
>

> cover-mockup.png
>
> On Sunday, August 11, 2024 at 10:57:41 AM UTC-4 Melody Adorable wrote:
>
> I've finished my first pass on production and resolved all the
> non-cover and non-metadata-related lint errors, Next up is a close
> proofreading pass, but because there were so many transcription

> errors I caught during production, I'm not expecting to find a /ton/

> onarchive.org <http://onarchive.org>
> >> <http://archive.org/ <http://archive.org/>>is presented

> similarly, with the same
> >> quotation error, so I won't bother linking to that (I
> am, however,
> >> using both because the older version is useful for
> confirming
> >> formatting and punctuation when it's omitted or wrong in
> the
> >> transcription, the quality of the newer edition's scan
> is a little
> >> worse and commas can be mistaken for periods more easily).
> >>
> >>
> https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b0000009514&seq=71 <https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b0000009514&seq=71>
> >>
> <https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b0000009514&seq=71 <https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b0000009514&seq=71>>
> >>
> >> the formatting for this on github starts here
> >>
> >>

> https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/develop/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376 <https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/develop/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376> <https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/develop/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376 <https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/develop/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376>>

> >>
> >> this is the same part of the same file from the commit
> before I
> >> removed the quote nesting
> >>
> >>

> https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/fdcbaa641103e2c4926599b442cbe91285491bbf/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376 <https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/fdcbaa641103e2c4926599b442cbe91285491bbf/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376> <https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/fdcbaa641103e2c4926599b442cbe91285491bbf/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376 <https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/fdcbaa641103e2c4926599b442cbe91285491bbf/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376>>

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/85e66e3f-dd81-45c9-990f-ddb0957fd8c1n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/85e66e3f-dd81-45c9-990f-ddb0957fd8c1n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/85e66e3f-dd81-45c9-990f-ddb0957fd8c1n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/85e66e3f-dd81-45c9-990f-ddb0957fd8c1n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

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Alex Cabal

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Aug 12, 2024, 12:47:09 PM8/12/24

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OK, that works, thanks!

On 8/11/24 6:36 PM, Melody Adorable wrote:
> I had some more time today and I think for the cover I'd like to use
> "The Spirit of War" by Jasper Francis Cropsey, it's CC0 on the National
> Gallery of Art site
>
> https://www.nga.gov/collection/art-object-page.56598.html
>
> I've done a quick mockup of the potential cover as well
>

> cover-mockup.png
>
> On Sunday, August 11, 2024 at 10:57:41 AM UTC-4 Melody Adorable wrote:
>
> I've finished my first pass on production and resolved all the
> non-cover and non-metadata-related lint errors, Next up is a close
> proofreading pass, but because there were so many transcription

> errors I caught during production, I'm not expecting to find a /ton/

> onarchive.org <http://onarchive.org>
> >> <http://archive.org/ <http://archive.org/>>is presented

> similarly, with the same
> >> quotation error, so I won't bother linking to that (I
> am, however,
> >> using both because the older version is useful for
> confirming
> >> formatting and punctuation when it's omitted or wrong in
> the
> >> transcription, the quality of the newer edition's scan
> is a little
> >> worse and commas can be mistaken for periods more easily).
> >>
> >>
> https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b0000009514&seq=71 <https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b0000009514&seq=71>
> >>
> <https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b0000009514&seq=71 <https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b0000009514&seq=71>>
> >>
> >> the formatting for this on github starts here
> >>
> >>

> https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/develop/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376 <https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/develop/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376> <https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/develop/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376 <https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/develop/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376>>

> >>
> >> this is the same part of the same file from the commit
> before I
> >> removed the quote nesting
> >>
> >>

> https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/fdcbaa641103e2c4926599b442cbe91285491bbf/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376 <https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/fdcbaa641103e2c4926599b442cbe91285491bbf/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376> <https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/fdcbaa641103e2c4926599b442cbe91285491bbf/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376 <https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/fdcbaa641103e2c4926599b442cbe91285491bbf/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376>>

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/85e66e3f-dd81-45c9-990f-ddb0957fd8c1n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/85e66e3f-dd81-45c9-990f-ddb0957fd8c1n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/85e66e3f-dd81-45c9-990f-ddb0957fd8c1n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/85e66e3f-dd81-45c9-990f-ddb0957fd8c1n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>

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Melody Adorable

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Aug 13, 2024, 11:38:24 PM8/13/24

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I'm working on the content.opf but I cannot find any subjects at the Library of Congress Catalog https://lccn.loc.gov/68098583 and PG Australia doesn't provide a bibrec. Should I just omit these and only include the SE subjects?

Alex Cabal

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Aug 14, 2024, 12:59:05 PM8/14/24

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This suggests it's "Fiction" and "Fiction--Gothic Fiction"
https://id.loc.gov/resources/works/4069542.html

> > onarchive.org <http://onarchive.org> <http://onarchive.org

> <http://onarchive.org>>
> > >> <http://archive.org/ <http://archive.org/>
> <http://archive.org/ <http://archive.org/>>>is presented
> > similarly, with the same
> > >> quotation error, so I won't bother linking to that (I
> > am, however,
> > >> using both because the older version is useful for
> > confirming
> > >> formatting and punctuation when it's omitted or wrong in
> > the
> > >> transcription, the quality of the newer edition's scan
> > is a little
> > >> worse and commas can be mistaken for periods more easily).
> > >>
> > >>
> > https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b0000009514&seq=71
> <https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b0000009514&seq=71>
> <https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b0000009514&seq=71
> <https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b0000009514&seq=71>>
> > >>
> > <https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b0000009514&seq=71
> <https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b0000009514&seq=71>
> <https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b0000009514&seq=71
> <https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b0000009514&seq=71>>>
> > >>
> > >> the formatting for this on github starts here
> > >>
> > >>
> >

> https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/develop/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376 <https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/develop/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376> <https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/develop/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376 <https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/develop/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376>> <https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/develop/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376 <https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/develop/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376> <https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/develop/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376 <https://github.com/meltheadorable/eliza-parsons_castle-of-wolfenbach/blob/develop/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L376>>>

> > >>
> > >> this is the same part of the same file from the commit
> > before I
> > >> removed the quote nesting
> > >>
> > >>
> >

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/85e66e3f-dd81-45c9-990f-ddb0957fd8c1n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/85e66e3f-dd81-45c9-990f-ddb0957fd8c1n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/85e66e3f-dd81-45c9-990f-ddb0957fd8c1n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/85e66e3f-dd81-45c9-990f-ddb0957fd8c1n%40googlegroups.com>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/85e66e3f-dd81-45c9-990f-ddb0957fd8c1n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/85e66e3f-dd81-45c9-990f-ddb0957fd8c1n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/85e66e3f-dd81-45c9-990f-ddb0957fd8c1n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/85e66e3f-dd81-45c9-990f-ddb0957fd8c1n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>>.

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Melody Adorable

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Aug 14, 2024, 3:07:54 PM8/14/24

to Standard Ebooks

Those are "Genre Forms" but those appear to be different from "Subjects" -- by comparison, the page for Pride & Prejudice https://lccn.loc.gov/00007087 has an "LC Subjects" section, and the subjects are different from and named differently from the genre forms. It looks like Castle of Wolfenbach just does not have that metadata.

Alex Cabal

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Aug 14, 2024, 3:15:05 PM8/14/24

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OK, well just find one that seems appropriate. "Gothic fiction" should work.

On 8/14/24 2:07 PM, Melody Adorable wrote:
> Those are "Genre Forms" but those appear to be different from "Subjects"
> -- by comparison, the page for Pride & Prejudice
> https://lccn.loc.gov/00007087 has an "LC Subjects" section, and the
> subjects are different from and named differently from the genre forms.

> It looks like /Castle of Wolfenbach/ just does not have that metadata.

> <http://onarchive.org>> <http://onarchive.org <http://onarchive.org>

> > > >>
> > > >> this is the same part of the same file from the commit
> > > before I
> > > >> removed the quote nesting
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >

> > >
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> > > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
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> > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > >
> >

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/9f939dea-1f6c-4c96-bcbd-ac86e067f681n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/9f939dea-1f6c-4c96-bcbd-ac86e067f681n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/9f939dea-1f6c-4c96-bcbd-ac86e067f681n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/9f939dea-1f6c-4c96-bcbd-ac86e067f681n%40googlegroups.com>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/9f939dea-1f6c-4c96-bcbd-ac86e067f681n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/9f939dea-1f6c-4c96-bcbd-ac86e067f681n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/9f939dea-1f6c-4c96-bcbd-ac86e067f681n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/9f939dea-1f6c-4c96-bcbd-ac86e067f681n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>>.

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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/a199e779-ebfe-442c-954d-6d5ee3755dc3n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/a199e779-ebfe-442c-954d-6d5ee3755dc3n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/a199e779-ebfe-442c-954d-6d5ee3755dc3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/a199e779-ebfe-442c-954d-6d5ee3755dc3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

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Melody Adorable

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Aug 14, 2024, 3:28:27 PM8/14/24

to Standard Ebooks

Okay, added it as "Gothic fiction (Literary genre)" as per http://id.loc.gov/authorities/subjects/sh2008020084 with that ID.

Christopher Hapka

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Aug 15, 2024, 12:03:57 PM8/15/24

to Standard Ebooks

If it helps, WorldCat has a list of subject classifications for this book. The English language ones appear to be LOC classifications.

Melody Adorable

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Aug 20, 2024, 10:31:23 AM8/20/24

to Standard Ebooks

The subjects on worldcat don't seem to be a 1-to-1 match to the LCSH ones, for instance worldcat has "Parents fiction" which isn't one of the LC subject headings according to this search https://id.loc.gov/search/?q=cs:http://id.loc.gov/authorities/subjects&q=parents%20fiction , LCSH are more specific, and there isn't even quite an exact match i'd choose from those options based on the content of the book, so my inclination for now is to leave it at "gothic fiction" and anything from the worldcat list that has a very exact match in the LCSH database, if there is anything, which I can check for later.

Melody Adorable

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Sep 3, 2024, 2:37:54 PM9/3/24

to Standard Ebooks

I added some additional subject metadata, I think this might be ready for review now.

Alex Cabal

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Sep 4, 2024, 2:31:13 PM9/4/24

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OK, I've looked it over, this looks like very good work. I opened a
Github issue with some minor items that you should be able to clean up
quickly. The largest one is changing the title but that's not so bad if
you create a new draft with the new title and copy the files out of it.

Let me know when you get that wrapped up and we can release this. Thanks!

On 9/3/24 1:37 PM, Melody Adorable wrote:
> I added some additional subject metadata, I think this might be ready
> for review now.
>
> On Tuesday, August 20, 2024 at 10:31:23 AM UTC-4 Melody Adorable wrote:
>
> The subjects on worldcat don't seem to be a 1-to-1 match to the LCSH
> ones, for instance worldcat has "Parents fiction" which isn't one of
> the LC subject headings according to this search

> https://id.loc.gov/search/?q=cs:http://id.loc.gov/authorities/subjects&q=parents%20fiction <https://id.loc.gov/search/?q=cs:http://id.loc.gov/authorities/subjects&q=parents%20fiction> , LCSH are more specific, and there isn't even quite an exact match i'd choose from those options based on the content of the book, so my inclination for now is to leave it at "gothic fiction" and anything from the worldcat list that has a very exact match in the LCSH database, if there is anything, which I can check for later.

>
> On Thursday, August 15, 2024 at 12:03:57 PM UTC-4 ch...@hapka.com wrote:
>
> If it helps, WorldCat

> <https://search.worldcat.org/title/castle-of-wolfenbach/oclc/461178> has a list of subject classifications for this book. The English language ones appear to be LOC classifications.

> > > > >>
> > > > >> this is the same part of the same file from
> the commit
> > > > before I
> > > > >> removed the quote nesting
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >

> > > >
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> > > > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> > > > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> > > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > > >
> > >
> >

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