[First project] The Survivors of the Chancellor by Jules Verne

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Lukas Bystricky

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Sep 21, 2021, 10:44:14 AM9/21/21
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Hi, I'd like to try this as my first book. Doesn't look too challenging, but if there's any potential pitfalls to be aware of please let me know! 

Alex Cabal

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Sep 21, 2021, 10:56:42 AM9/21/21
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Great, that one would be a good start.

The PG translation is by Ellen Frewer. Make sure to pass the
`--translator` flag to `se create-draft`. The subtitle is "Diary of..."

It looks like the PG transcription removed all formatting and italics.
You'll have to eyeball the page scans to restore italics and formatting.
I see a few letters in there, see the manual for copy and paste style.
Note that ship names must also be in italics, and the PG transcription
changed it to quotes.

PG also changed lat/long coordinates to words instead of symbols (i.e.
`64 deg.` instead of `64°` so you'll have to change those back to match
the page scans. Again, see the manual for typography rules for coordinates.

The intro in the page scans says it was inspired by a painting, "The
Wreck of the Medusa", so that might be a good option for cover art if
you can find PD proof. See the manual for proof requirements.

Make sure to read the Standard Ebooks Manual of Style before starting,
as you won't know what to fix if you haven't read the standards. In
particular, please closely review the semantics, high level patterns,
and typography sections:

https://standardebooks.org/manual

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography

The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:

https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step

Please email often if you have any questions at all. Our standards are
well-established so there is probably already a standard for formatting
whatever problem you've encountered.

When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github repository so
that I can mark you as having started.

Have fun! :)


On 9/21/21 9:44 AM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
> Hi, I'd like to try this as my first book. Doesn't look too challenging,
> but if there's any potential pitfalls to be aware of please let me know!
>
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Lukas Bystricky

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Sep 21, 2021, 11:12:45 AM9/21/21
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Excellent, thanks for the information! 

What page scans are you using? I found some here, with the same translator: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hn5bed&view=1up&seq=13&skin=2021, but I don't see any reference to the painting there. 

Lukas Bystricky

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Sep 22, 2021, 1:52:45 AM9/22/21
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I have created a git repo here: https://github.com/lukasbystricky/jules-verne_the-survivors-of-the-chancellor_ellen-frewer

On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 4:56:42 PM UTC+2 Alex Cabal wrote:

Lukas Bystricky

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Sep 25, 2021, 1:35:02 AM9/25/21
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Hi, I've created a draft version and I've been proofreading. There's plenty of older words that should be modernized (e.g. mizzen-mast to mizzenmast), and I've been doing this as I proofread. However, I now realize that I haven't been prefacing these commits with an [Editorial] flag. Is this a serious issue? Before I continue I'd like to make sure that I won't need to restart /rebase or something. I suppose some general comments on my commit strategy would be useful too. Thanks! 

maticstric

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Sep 25, 2021, 11:02:02 AM9/25/21
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I think that it will be an issue. Are you closely following the step-by-step guide (https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step)? The bigger issue than including [Editorial] is that many of these changes that you are doing manually should be done automatically by the modernize-spelling script used in step 12 of the guide. Usually we never modernize things by hand, except in special circumstances. For a first book it's incredibly important to follow the guide exactly since it makes it easier for you and for the person reviewing your book to look through the commits you made.

Vince

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Sep 25, 2021, 1:38:53 PM9/25/21
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Everything Matic said. All spelling modernizations are required to be in Editorial commits, and they should be the only thing in those commits. IOW, don’t mix editorial and non-editorial changes in the same commit.

And yes, follow the step-by-step guide exactly on your first project. So you should run modernize-spelling at the indicated point, and then see where you are. There are usually few cases where other spelling changes are needed after that, and those should be cleared here by Alex first, especially for a first project.

Lukas Bystricky

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Sep 26, 2021, 10:50:16 AM9/26/21
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Ah that makes sense. I was following the guide, but somehow I missed the command modernize-spelling. Ok, I'll revert back to that step and continue from there. Thanks!

Lukas Bystricky

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Sep 28, 2021, 1:28:01 PM9/28/21
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Ok, I finished the first proofreading. I made a few minor editorial commits for capitalizations/punctuation and such. There's plenty of hyphenated/archaic words that I think could maybe be changed, should I post a list here, or wait for the reviewers?

Regarding illustrations: the page scans I used had several illustrations, should those be included?

For the cover art, as per Alex's suggestion, I propose the Raft of the Medusa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Raft_of_the_Medusa#/media/File:JEAN_LOUIS_THÉODORE_GÉRICAULT_-_La_Balsa_de_la_Medusa_(Museo_del_Louvre,_1818-19).jpg), see page scan on page 293 here: https://books.google.se/books?id=M4kYZ6GFoKIC&pg=PA290&dq=Théodore+Géricault&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiB6vrAlqLzAhUPXMAKHQa0Ae0Q6AF6BAgLEAI#v=onepage&q=Théodore%20Géricault&f=false.

Alex Cabal

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Sep 28, 2021, 1:32:11 PM9/28/21
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You can send a list here and we'll let you know if they should be
modernized.

You can cut all the illustrations.

Re. cover art, the reproduction you found is an etching, which we cannot
accept as PD proof. Can you find a different photo reproduction?

On 9/28/21 12:28 PM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
> Ok, I finished the first proofreading. I made a few minor editorial
> commits for capitalizations/punctuation and such. There's plenty of
> hyphenated/archaic words that I think could maybe be changed, should I
> post a list here, or wait for the reviewers?
>
> Regarding illustrations: the page scans I used had several
> illustrations, should those be included?
>
> For the cover art, as per Alex's suggestion, I propose the Raft of the
> Medusa
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Raft_of_the_Medusa#/media/File:JEAN_LOUIS_THÉODORE_GÉRICAULT_-_La_Balsa_de_la_Medusa_(Museo_del_Louvre,_1818-19).jpg),
> see page scan on page 293
> here: https://books.google.se/books?id=M4kYZ6GFoKIC&pg=PA290&dq=Théodore+Géricault&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiB6vrAlqLzAhUPXMAKHQa0Ae0Q6AF6BAgLEAI#v=onepage&q=Théodore%20Géricault&f=false.
>
> On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 4:50:16 PM UTC+2 Lukas Bystricky wrote:
>
>
> Ah that makes sense. I was following the guide, but somehow I missed
> the command modernize-spelling. Ok, I'll revert back to that step
> and continue from there. Thanks!
> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 7:38:53 PM UTC+2 Vince wrote:
>
> Everything Matic said. All spelling modernizations
> are//required to be in Editorial commits, and they should be the
> /only/ thing in those commits. IOW, don’t mix editorial and
> non-editorial changes in the same commit.
>
> And yes, follow the step-by-step guide exactly on your first
> project. So you should run modernize-spelling at the indicated
> point, and then see where you are. There are usually few cases
> where other spelling changes are needed after that, and those
> should be cleared here by Alex first, especially for a first
> project.
>
>
>> On Sep 25, 2021, at 10:02 AM, maticstric <matic...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I think that it will be an issue. Are you closely following
>> the step-by-step guide
>> (https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step
>> <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step>)?
>> The bigger issue than including [Editorial] is that many of
>> these changes that you are doing manually should be done
>> automatically by the modernize-spelling script used in step 12
>> of the guide. Usually we never modernize things by hand,
>> except in special circumstances. For a first book it's
>> incredibly important to follow the guide exactly since it
>> makes it easier for you/and/for the person reviewing your book
>> to look through the commits you made.
>> On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 10:35:02 PM UTC-7
>> lukasby...@gmail.com <http://gmail.com/>wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi, I've created a draft version and I've been
>> proofreading. There's plenty of older words that should be
>> modernized (e.g. mizzen-mast to mizzenmast), and I've been
>> doing this as I proofread. However, I now realize that I
>> haven't been prefacing these commits with an [Editorial]
>> flag. Is this a serious issue? Before I continue I'd like
>> to make sure that I won't need to restart /rebase or
>> something. I suppose some general comments on my commit
>> strategy would be useful too. Thanks!
>> On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 7:52:45 AM UTC+2 Lukas
>> Bystricky wrote:
>>
>> I have created a git repo here:
>> https://github.com/lukasbystricky/jules-verne_the-survivors-of-the-chancellor_ellen-frewer
>> <https://github.com/lukasbystricky/jules-verne_the-survivors-of-the-chancellor_ellen-frewer>
>
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Lukas Bystricky

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Sep 28, 2021, 2:02:00 PM9/28/21
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OK great. I'll keep looking for a photograph.  

Here's the list (it's long):
Battery-quay -> Battery-quay 
harbour-mouth -> harbour mouth
five-and-twenty, four-and-twenty etc -> twenty-five/twenty-four
gun-deck -> gun deck
charter-party -> charter party
screw-jacks -> screw jacks
fellow-passengers -> fellow passengers
fag-end -> fag end
butt-end -> butt end
cabin-lamp -> cabin lamp
gallant-sail -> gallant sail
panel-sides -> panel sides
yacht-club -> yacht club
studding-sails -> studding sails
suction-tubes -> suction tubes
re-enter -> reenter
safety-valve -> safety valve
aft-quarter -> aft quarter
hen-coops -> hen coops
memorandum-book -> memorandum book
clearly-defined -> clearly defined
ground-plan -> ground plan
sounding-line -> sounding line
half-a-crown -> half a crown
iron-belts -> iron belts
ever-memorable -> ever memorable
spring-tide -> spring tide
dead lock -> deadlock
sea-range -> sea range
coal-tar -> coal tar
leaking-place -> leaking place
scupper-holes -> scupper holes
sinister-looking -> sinister looking
main-top -> maintop
sail-tent -> sail tent
livid-looking -> livid looking
mast-top -> mast top
air-bubbles -> air bubbles
half-past -> half past
trade-wind -> trade wind
drinking-vessel -> drinking vessel
fishing-line -> fishing line
medicine-chest -> medicine chest
coarse-minded -> coarse minded
cloud-batteries -> cloud batteries
half-pound -> half pound
rubbish-heap -> rubbish heap
face to face -> face-to-face
half-closed -> half closed
aft-part -> aft part
winding-sheet -> winding sheet
stock-fish -> stockfish
water-cask -> water cask
half-hour -> half hour
storm-cloud -> storm cloud
cloud-rift -> cloud rift
cables' length -> cable lengths

In addition, I there's some archaic words/phrases, but I don't know the SE policy on replacing these:
Scotchman -> Scotsman
Scotch -> Scottish
ere -> before
incommode -> inconvenience
lading -> loading
larboard -> port
horary -> hourly
the Bermudas -> Bermuda
the Santorini -> Santorini
the Brazils -> Brazil
heavily-laden -> heavy-laden
disport -> frolic (French: se débattre, so maybe wrestle?)
saccharine -> sugary
laminar (means layered, but the French word is laminaire which translates to laminaria, a type of kelp/seaweed)
sygyzian -> syzygian (I think this is just a spelling mistake)
repast -> meal

Alex Cabal

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Sep 28, 2021, 2:07:50 PM9/28/21
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The general rule is that we don't replace dashes with spaces, we only
remove dashes entirely if appropriate. The second rule is that we only
do sound-alike spelling modernizations, we do not replace words with a
different equivalent. So, for just about all of these, I would not make
any changes with perhaps the exception of `sygyzian` which as you noted
is probably just a misspelling of a very visually-confusing word.

So if you already made these changes in your repo, you should undo them.
Since you're the only one working on the repo, if you made all of these
in an [Editorial] commit (as you should have) then you can simply rebase
the repo and drop those commits, instead of creating a new commit to
undo an old one.
> >> lukasby...@gmail.com <http://gmail.com/ <http://gmail.com/>>wrote:
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/6d56d087-f5b8-469e-8f30-d3c2030ab034n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/6d56d087-f5b8-469e-8f30-d3c2030ab034n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>
>
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Lukas Bystricky

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Sep 28, 2021, 2:19:58 PM9/28/21
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Ok, that sounds good. What about "re-enter -> reenter", "main-top -> maintop", "stock-fish -> stockfish", and "dead lock -> deadlock", all of which are in MW? 

Alex Cabal

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Sep 28, 2021, 2:21:12 PM9/28/21
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Lukas Bystricky

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Sep 28, 2021, 2:34:49 PM9/28/21
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Alright, that's done.

Is page 51 here acceptable for the painting?
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015015665881&view=1up&seq=51&skin=2021&q1=Géricault

Alex Cabal

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Sep 28, 2021, 2:36:29 PM9/28/21
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Lukas Bystricky

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Sep 28, 2021, 5:57:33 PM9/28/21
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OK, I've pushed a version now which is ready for review. 

Alex Cabal

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Sep 28, 2021, 5:58:38 PM9/28/21
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Robin Whittleton

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Sep 29, 2021, 12:46:49 AM9/29/21
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Sure, though it might take a few days.

> On 28 Sep 2021, at 23:58, Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org> wrote:
>
> Robin do you have time to review this?
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Lukas Bystricky

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Sep 29, 2021, 4:19:17 AM9/29/21
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Well the book was published in 1875, so I guess it can wait a few more.days ;-)

Robin Whittleton

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Sep 29, 2021, 12:59:12 PM9/29/21
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OK! In general, an excellent first production, consider me impressed. There’s a few things to fix of course, there always are.

cover
  • can you save out cover.jpg at maybe 80% and rebuild? That drops the cover size from 1.3MB to ~550KB with no appreciable quality difference.

content.opf
  • Short description: remove the italics. This is meant to be plain text
  • Long desc:
    • wrap the whole thing in a <p>
    • capitalise Englishman
    • wrap J. R. with an <abbr>
    • Depsite -> Despite
    • meterology -> meteorology

chapter-3

chapter-6
  • I’d switch <i>sargasso</i> back to the original quotes; we don’t need to italicise it as it’s in MW

chapter-34
  • artiste is italicised because it’s originally French, but it’s in MW so the italicisation can go

chapter-55
  • mêlée -> melee, and you can remove the <em> (it probably was italicised french in the first place). Editorial commit.

Then run typogrify again.


Regarding editorial commits, they’ve gone a bit further than we’d usually go in terms of adjustment. I know that Verne’s translations aren’t always in the best of shape, and we’ve done this sort of thing before, but it needs review.

“Minor changes” seems mostly fine, although rewording “crystalline bitter” to “bitter crystalline” is for me too far.
“Punctuation” is arguable. Personally for me, I’d suggest that these changes are mostly unnecessary.
“Capitalizations” I think I’d undo completely. Things like “Fire! fire!” are totally OK and don’t need to be changed to “Fire! Fire!”. Most, if not all, of the rest are also normal formatting originally, and don’t need to be changed.

Alex, can you quickly review these three commits?

-Robin

Alex Cabal

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Sep 29, 2021, 5:05:38 PM9/29/21
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On 9/29/21 11:59 AM, Robin Whittleton wrote:

> Regarding editorial commits, they’ve gone a bit further than we’d
> usually go in terms of adjustment. I know that Verne’s translations
> aren’t always in the best of shape, and we’ve done this sort of thing
> before, but it needs review.

Agreed. "Minor changes" can be kept but revert "crystalline bitter";
"punctuation" should be dropped entirely, we do not change punctuation
as a general rule; "capitalization" can also be dropped entirely (but be
careful as that commit includes non-editorial fixes like replacing an
HTML entity and code style tweaks).

It's common in older work for words following an exclamation or a quote
to not be capitalized. We just leave that as-is because it's very, very
common.

Lukas Bystricky

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Sep 30, 2021, 2:04:15 AM9/30/21
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Thanks for the review! I'll thy and make those changes today. I have a few questions/comments:
1. For "saragosso" I thought it should be in italics because of 8.2.10.1 "When introducing new terms, non-English or technical terms are italicized, but terms composed of common English are set in quotation marks." Is that not right?
2. For the punctuation, in cases like "I broke the dismal silence, saying “All over now, Curtis.”" should a comma really not be introduced before the quote? It looks strange to me without it. 
3. Similarly, "I made no remonstrance, however, to this view of our case, but merely asked <abbr>M.</abbr> Letourneur if he had confidence in Robert Curtis?" looks very strange to me ending in a question mark.
4. The sentence, "Whenever the breeze drops the heat is overpowering.." makes more sense with a comma.
5. I've also noticed when looking at the page scans that I'm missing a period at the end of the diary dateline at the beginning of each chapter. Should I add that?
6. The subtitle for the novel doesn't appear anywhere. Should I be worried about that?

Weijia Cheng

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Sep 30, 2021, 10:56:00 AM9/30/21
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"2. For the punctuation, in cases like "I broke the dismal silence, saying “All over now, Curtis.”" should a comma really not be introduced before the quote? It looks strange to me without it."

For whatever it's worth, rule 6.50 of the CMOS (16th edition) says: "Commas with quotations: Material quoted in the form of a dialogue or from text is traditionally introduced with a comma (but see 6.63, 13.17). If a quotation is introduced by that, whether, or a similar conjunction, no comma is needed."

Alex Cabal

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Sep 30, 2021, 2:02:19 PM9/30/21
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On 9/30/21 1:04 AM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
>
> Thanks for the review! I'll thy and make those changes today. I have a
> few questions/comments:
> 1. For "saragosso" I thought it should be in italics because of 8.2.10.1
> "When introducing new terms, non-English or technical terms are
> italicized, but terms composed of common English are set in quotation
> marks." Is that not right?

Maybe Robin confused `saragosso` (text) with `sargasso` (MW)? Is it an
alternate spelling?

> 2. For the punctuation, in cases like "I broke the dismal silence,
> saying “All over now, Curtis.”" should a comma really not be introduced
> before the quote? It looks strange to me without it.

OK, you can leave that in as an editorial commit.

> 3. Similarly, "I made no remonstrance, however, to this view of our
> case, but merely asked <abbr>M.</abbr> Letourneur if he had confidence
> in Robert Curtis?" looks very strange to me ending in a question mark.

No, leave that as-is in the text.

> 4. The sentence, "Whenever the breeze drops the heat is overpowering.."
> makes more sense with a comma.

Perhaps it does but we don't change punctuation as a general rule.

> 5. I've also noticed when looking at the page scans that I'm missing a
> period at the end of the diary dateline at the beginning of each
> chapter. Should I add that?

I think it's fine to leave those out, the em dash is enough.

> 6. The subtitle for the novel doesn't appear anywhere. Should I be
> worried about that?

The subtitle should appear in the half title page, if there is one. If
there isn't, then it won't appear in the work text. However in all cases
it should be in the metadata, see the manual for a copy-and-paste example.

Robin Whittleton

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Sep 30, 2021, 2:32:38 PM9/30/21
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I did confuse sarogosso with sargasso, sorry.

> On 30 Sep 2021, at 20:02, Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org> wrote:
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Lukas Bystricky

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Oct 1, 2021, 12:54:32 PM10/1/21
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Ok, I think I made all the requested changes. 

Alex Cabal

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Oct 2, 2021, 3:54:24 PM10/2/21
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I still see those commits that we needed dropped in the history. These
should be dropped or edited using git rebase:

d1806ad: [Editorial] Minor changes
8505a76: [Editorial] Punctuation
74e4808: [Editorial] Capitalizations

with the exceptions that we discussed in this thread. Once you do that
do git push -f to force push to Github.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/8ed0615f-155a-a548-8ca3-fce0ad40d64e%40standardebooks.org>.
>
>
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Lukas Bystricky

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Oct 3, 2021, 1:23:13 PM10/3/21
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Ok, I did a more manual cleanup of the git repo, but those commits are gone. 

Alex Cabal

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Oct 3, 2021, 10:21:02 PM10/3/21
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OK excellent. This is a very good first production, great work and
thanks! I've gone ahead and released it.

If you'd like to work on something else, check out our wanted list for
moderate difficulty productions, or pitch something else that might
interest you to the mailing list.

Thanks!
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Lukas Bystricky

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Oct 4, 2021, 1:18:31 AM10/4/21
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Thanks Alex! It was a lot of fun. :-)
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