Re: [standardebooks] [Possible Next Project] Short Fiction by H. Beam Piper

[Alex Cabal]

You can do an omnibus. Since his shorts became public domain due to
nonrenewal, you don't have to do any in depth research - just collect
all of the short stories that are currently PG, as those are the only
ones we can accept. If you can find scans they'll be at Internet Archive
under the appropriate magazine issue. Please send a link to your repo
once you get started!

On 12/18/23 12:41 PM, Kevin Palm wrote:
> Since I haven't tried to do an omnibus yet, how about this?  I know
> it'll take some research to track everything down, but I'm up for it!
>
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[Kevin Palm]

Okay, thanks.  I won't be able to get to it until after the holidays, but I'll post the repo as soon as I do.

[Kevin Palm]

Repo: https://github.com/PiperKev/h-beam-piper_short-fiction

I've attached a spreadsheet with links to the scans.  Hopefully that's better than posting all 27 links, but I can do that, if that's preferable.

[David]

We all use GitHub, so just for the banter I threw the salient details from that spreadsheet into a gist. Might make referring to some of the stories easier for some.

Hope that helps!  David / Fife, UK

[Kevin]

Very cool, David!  Thanks!!

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[Alex Cabal]

OK, looks good, you can go ahead and get started. We arrange omnibuses
by date of first publication.

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/86a9f24e-6814-4d05-9891-6c43d9667597n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/86a9f24e-6814-4d05-9891-6c43d9667597n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/86a9f24e-6814-4d05-9891-6c43d9667597n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/86a9f24e-6814-4d05-9891-6c43d9667597n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

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[Kevin Palm]

First question of the new year! :-)  When I run se find-unusual-characters, I get this result:



I have no idea how to figure out what it's flagging.  I tried searching for instances of double spacing, but there don't seem to be any, so I'm at a loss.  Any ideas?

[Jason Livermore]

The results are indented by exactly one space.  I was able to copy it by grabbing the second (invisible) character on that results line.

Pasting that in Unicode analyzer, I got:
U+200B
ZERO WIDTH SPACE

And doing a grep on that, I found results on two lines:

src/epub/text/naudsonce.xhtml:                  <p>“I question that,” Gofredo differed. “There won’t be more than a total of five hundred there; call that a fighting strength of two hundred, to defend a twenty-five-​hundred-​meter perimeter, with woodchoppers’ axes and bows and spears. If you notice, there’s no wall around the village itself. That palisade is just a fence.”</p>
src/epub/text/naudsonce.xhtml:                  <p>He sipped his cocktail and continued: “I can understand why the village is mounded up, too. I realized that while I was watching Dave’s gang bury the pump house. I’d been bothered by that, and by the absence of granaries for all the grain they raise, and by the number of people for so few and such small houses. I think the village is mostly underground, and the houses are just entrances, soundproofed, to shelter them from uncomfortable natural noises​⁠—​thunderstorms, for instance.”</p>

Hope that helps!

[Robin Whittleton]

For what it’s worth, the next version of find-unusual-characters will write out the character name as well, thanks to Alex.

-Robin

On 1 Jan 2024, at 17:40, Jason Livermore <jason.l...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Kevin Palm]

That ABSOLUTELY helped, Jason!  THANK YOU!  The Unicode analyzer sounds like a VERY useful tool going forward!

[Kevin Palm]

That will indeed be helpful!

[Weijia Cheng]

For future reference, I've always used this tool whenever I have to deal with weird Unicode characters and I can't figure out what I'm working with. You can type in a string and it will decompose everything (including combining marks!)

[Alex Cabal]

`se unicode-names` does this, getting Unicode points for lookalike
characters is a very common task :)

On 1/1/24 11:17 AM, Weijia Cheng wrote:
> For future reference, I've always used this tool

> <https://unicode.scarfboy.com/> whenever I have to deal with weird

> Unicode characters and I can't figure out what I'm working with. You can
> type in a string and it will decompose everything (including combining
> marks!)
>
> On Monday, January 1, 2024 at 9:06:18 AM UTC-8 pipe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> That will indeed be helpful!
>
> On Monday, January 1, 2024 at 11:48:25 AM UTC-5 robin wrote:
>
> For what it’s worth, the next version of find-unusual-characters
> will write out the character name as well, thanks to Alex.
>
> -Robin
>
>> On 1 Jan 2024, at 17:40, Jason Livermore
>> <jason.l...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> The results are indented by exactly one space.  I was able to
>> copy it by grabbing the second (invisible) character on that
>> results line.
>> Pasting that in Unicode analyzer, I got:
>> U+200B
>> ZERO WIDTH SPACE

>> <https://www.fontspace.com/unicode/char/200B-zero-width-space>

>>
>> And doing a grep on that, I found results on two lines:
>>
>> src/epub/text/naudsonce.xhtml:                  <p>“I question
>> that,” Gofredo differed. “There won’t be more than a total of
>> five hundred there; call that a fighting strength of two
>> hundred, to defend a twenty-five-​hundred-​meter perimeter,
>> with woodchoppers’ axes and bows and spears. If you notice,
>> there’s no wall around the village itself. That palisade is
>> just a fence.”</p>
>> src/epub/text/naudsonce.xhtml:                  <p>He sipped
>> his cocktail and continued: “I can understand why the village
>> is mounded up, too. I realized that while I was watching
>> Dave’s gang bury the pump house. I’d been bothered by that,
>> and by the absence of granaries for all the grain they raise,
>> and by the number of people for so few and such small houses.
>> I think the village is mostly underground, and the houses are
>> just entrances, soundproofed, to shelter them from
>> uncomfortable natural noises​⁠—​thunderstorms, for instance.”</p>
>>
>> Hope that helps!
>>
>>
>> On Monday, January 1, 2024 at 10:20:19 AM UTC-6
>> pipe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> First question of the new year! :-)  When I run se
>> find-unusual-characters, I get this result:
>>

>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/86a9f24e-6814-4d05-9891-6c43d9667597n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/86a9f24e-6814-4d05-9891-6c43d9667597n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/86a9f24e-6814-4d05-9891-6c43d9667597n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/86a9f24e-6814-4d05-9891-6c43d9667597n%40googlegroups.com>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/86a9f24e-6814-4d05-9891-6c43d9667597n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/86a9f24e-6814-4d05-9891-6c43d9667597n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/86a9f24e-6814-4d05-9891-6c43d9667597n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/86a9f24e-6814-4d05-9891-6c43d9667597n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>>.

>> >
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[Kevin Palm]

There's a term in "Day of the Moron" that I'm not sure what to do with, "RC-tongs:"

From what I can tell, it's a purely fictional term (Googling the term with the dash only leads back to the short story, and without the dash brings up a brand of campfire tongs from Redneck Convent, which I'm pretty sure ain't what I'm looking for ;-) ).  Is it a hard-and-fast rule that initialisms have to have periods, or can I use <abbr epub:type="z3998:initialism">RC</abbr>-tongs?

[Kevin Palm]

And also, would the name of a spaceship be semanticated as <i epub:type="se:name.vessel.ship">?  Or possibly just <i epub:type="se:name.vessel">?

[Weijia Cheng]

The manual lists the exceptions very specifically so you should probably add periods if you think it's an initialism.

You aren't the first person to ask about spaceships :) Use the <i epub:type="se:name.vessel.ship"> semantics.

[Kevin Palm]

Thanks, Weijia!  I knew about the exceptions, but I didn't know if they were the ONLY exceptions!

And thanks for the "spaceship" info!

[Kevin Palm]

Another semantic question.  In "A Slave Is a Slave," a couple of planet/moon names are comprised of two compund words, the last of which is italicized:

In the transcript, they're italicized with a simple <i>.  I searched the group and came across the thread for "First Lensman" where Mike Bennet mentions that "There's one instance where two characters are discussing potential names for a new planet they've discovered, and the potential names are italicized in text. I've left them in plain <i> tags with no semantic mark up."  I never saw a response as to whether this is correct, but this is the same situation.  Should I leave them as is?

[Weijia Cheng]

You can probably give them the z3998:place semantic so that they aren't complete bare of semantics. Reading through the Z39:98 standard is really helpful to understand what sort of semantics are out there.

[Kevin Palm]

FYI, this book is now available for whoever wants to start it. Alex and I have agreed that it's time for me to move on.  Thanks to everyone here who has helped me and given me advice on previous books!  Good luck to all the new producers,it really is a rewarding thing to do!

Cheers,

Kevin

[David at Standard Ebooks]

If no one else wants it, I would be interested in picking this project up, even if for no other reason than that my very first production for Standard Ebooks was a novel by H. Beam Piper!

The gist put together by David Reimer ought to make it a lot easier, I would have thought?

David / Melbourne, Australia 

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[Kevin Palm]

Absolutely!  The gist is in first published order as well.  There's also the spreadsheet I posted to the list. 

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[Alex Cabal]

Go for it David!

On 1/5/24 9:37 PM, David at Standard Ebooks wrote:
> If no one else wants it, I would be interested in picking this project
> up, even if for no other reason than that my very first production for
> Standard Ebooks was a novel by H. Beam Piper!
>
> The gist put together by David Reimer ought to make it a lot easier, I
> would have thought?
>
> David / Melbourne, Australia
> On 6 Jan 2024 at 1:41 PM +1100, Kevin Palm <pipe...@gmail.com>, wrote:
>> FYI, this book is now available for whoever wants to start it. Alex
>> and I have agreed that it's time for me to move on.  Thanks to
>> everyone here who has helped me and given me advice on previous
>> books!  Good luck to all the new producers,it really is a rewarding
>> thing to do!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Kevin
>>
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[David at Standard Ebooks]

OK, thanks, will do.

David / Melbourne, Australia 

On 6 Jan 2024 at 3:29 PM +1100, Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org>, wrote:

Go for it David!

[David Grigg]

My repository is here: https://github.com/drgrigg/h-beam-piper_short-fiction

OK, my first question on this project. A number of the Piper stories here were co-authored with John J. McGuire:

Based on the Wikipedia articl on McGuire, these joint stories are:

• Hunter Patrol
  
• The Return
  
• Null-ABC
  
• Lone Star Planet
  

How do I deal with that? I could put a note in each story mentioning McGuire as co-author, I guess. Obviously I would add McGuire in content.opf as a contributor, but I'm not sure how best to credit him in the above stories.

Have we ever had this situation before? Is Lyrical Ballads any sort of guide?

[Jason Livermore]

I ran into this with Frederik Pohl's short fiction.  Besides listing Kornbluth as a contributor in content.opf, I added an author line under the h2 header on select stories with

<p epub:type="contributors">By Frederik Pohl and <abbr epub:type="z3998:given-name">C. M.</abbr> Kornbluth</p>

If that helps, you can just search Kornbluth in that repo.

[David at Standard Ebooks]

Thanks a lot, I'll follow your example.

David / Melbourne, Australia 

[Alex Cabal]

Hold off on the cover art for this one, we may have someone contributing
a painting. Let me know when you reach that point.

On 1/11/24 9:04 PM, David Grigg wrote:
> My repository is here: https://github.com/drgrigg/h-beam-piper_short-fiction
>
> OK, my first question on this project. A number of the Piper stories

> here were *co-authored* with John J. McGuire:

> Based on the Wikipedia articl on McGuire, these joint stories are:
>

> * Hunter Patrol
> * The Return
> * Null-ABC
> * Lone Star Planet

>
> How do I deal with that? I could put a note in each story mentioning
> McGuire as co-author, I guess. Obviously I would add McGuire in
> content.opf as a contributor, but I'm not sure how best to credit him in
> the above stories.
>
> Have we ever had this situation before? Is Lyrical Ballads any sort of
> guide?
> On Saturday 6 January 2024 at 15:30:49 UTC+11 David at Standard Ebooks
> wrote:
>
> OK, thanks, will do.
>
> David / Melbourne, Australia
> On 6 Jan 2024 at 3:29 PM +1100, Alex Cabal
> <al...@standardebooks.org>, wrote:
>
> Go for it David!
>
>

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[David at Standard Ebooks]

OK. Interesting…

David / Melbourne, Australia 

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[David at Standard Ebooks]

I'm making an executive decision to remove "Rebel Raider" from the collection as having read through it,  it's clearly a non-fiction article about the Civil War.

David / Melbourne, Australia 

[Alex Cabal]

OK, it would be good to note why in the production notes in case this
comes up again.

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[David at Standard Ebooks]

Sure. But as nonfiction, it’s obviously not suitable for inclusion in a “Short Fiction“ collection. 

David / Melbourne, Australia 

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[Alex Cabal]

It's not obviously nonfiction, lots of places have it listed as fiction
and even PG has it listed as "historical fiction". So someone will
eventually come asking, and we need to note in the production notes that
it's not actually fiction.

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[David at Standard Ebooks]

OK, no problem.

David / Melbourne, Australia 

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[David at Standard Ebooks]

OK, I've had another look at "Rebel Raider" and I've reconsidered. While it's largely an account of real events, it's "fictionalised" to at least some degree. So I'll leave it in.

David / Melbourne, Australia 

[David Grigg]

I've been out of action on this for the last few weeks due to a death in the family, but this is to let you know that I'm back at work on it.

[David at Standard Ebooks]

Question: I have an instance in one of the Piper stories of the italicised name of a 'newscast' which I take it from context to be a radio show, or in modern parlance, a podcast. It's called Planetwide News, and is italicised in the page scans. 

If it were a newspaper we would leave the italics and add semantication; but it's not a newspaper, just a modern (or here, future) version of a newspaper.

Options:

1) Remove the italics entirely, do nothing else
2) Put it in quotes
3) Add a new item to our vocabulary such as se:name.publication.broadcast

Of these, I think I prefer (2). Anyone else have a thought?

David / Melbourne, Australia 

[Weijia Cheng]

FWIW, rule 8.185 of Chicago says "Titles of movies and of television and radio programs and series are italicized." I would go for 3, especially since radio shows will become more common as the PD era advances.

[Alex Cabal]

Italics, you can use se.name.publication

On 3/12/24 7:05 PM, David at Standard Ebooks wrote:
> Question: I have an instance in one of the Piper stories of the
> italicised name of a 'newscast' which I take it from context to be a

> radio show, or in modern parlance, a podcast. It's called /Planetwide
> News/, and is italicised in the page scans.

>
> If it were a newspaper we would leave the italics and add semantication;

> but it's not a newspaper, just a modern (or here, future) /version/ of a

> newspaper.
>
> Options:
>
> 1) Remove the italics entirely, do nothing else
> 2) Put it in quotes
> 3) Add a new item to our vocabulary such as se:name.publication.broadcast
>
> Of these, I think I prefer (2). Anyone else have a thought?
>
> David / Melbourne, Australia
>

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[David at Standard Ebooks]

OK, ta.

David / Melbourne, Australia 

[Vince]

> On Mar 12, 2024, at 7:05 PM, David at Standard Ebooks <standar...@thegriggs.org> wrote:
>
> … which I take it from context to be a radio show, or in modern parlance, a podcast.

Hah! I don’t think so, but I’m laughing too hard to be able to articulate why…

[David Grigg]

I'm thinking of this as the cover, because the overlapping figures and cityscapes bring to mind the multiple parallel timelines Piper uses in his "paratime" series, featured prominently in his stories. It's "The Revolt" by Luigi Rossolo.

PD proof:  https://archive.org/details/newtendencyinart00poor/page/n84/mode/1up 

What do you think?

[Alex Cabal]

I think that works!

On 3/15/24 6:45 PM, David Grigg wrote:
> I'm thinking of this as the cover, because the overlapping figures and
> cityscapes bring to mind the multiple parallel timelines Piper uses in
> his "paratime" series, featured prominently in his stories. It's "The
> Revolt" by Luigi Rossolo.
>

> Screenshot 2024-03-16 10-43-59.jpg
> PD proof:
>  https://archive.org/details/newtendencyinart00poor/page/n84/mode/1up
>
> What do you think?
>

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[David at Standard Ebooks]

OK, this is now ready for review then.

https://github.com/drgrigg/h-beam-piper_short-fiction

Took a while: it's nearly 400,000 words in length!

David / Melbourne, Australia 

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[David at Standard Ebooks]

I should mention that there are quite a few entries in se-lint-ignore.xml, one of which may be my mistake, a baffling lint error which I couldn't figure out.

David / Melbourne, Australia 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/9c21e867-2e5d-4d62-bf26-57897eca346b%40Spark.

[Vince]

Not volunteering for the review (off to bed after this), but the latest lint (2.6.3) reports:

The id “operation-rsvp” doesn’t match the filename of “operation-r-s-v-p”.

There are two instances of comma outside quote (“Hover”,) in The Return.

For the c-006, I believe it is the combination of z3998:initialism and se:era that is confusing things; eliminate the initialism and the error goes away. And it should be eliminated: we don’t use initials on era’s. It should be AE, not A.E. (See SEMoS 8.9.5. The examples there are the commonly used eras, but the same applies for all eras.)

[David at Standard Ebooks]

> comma outside quote 

Hmmm, I wonder why lint didn’t flag those for me? It ran clean.

Thanks for the clue about the era.

Will fix both of these issues tomorrow.

David / Melbourne, Australia

On 16 Mar 2024 at 4:49 PM +1100, standar...@googlegroups.com, wrote:

comma outside quote 

[Vince Rice]

2.6.3, just released earlier this week, included some improvements to that, so if you haven’t upgraded yet, it wouldn’t report it.

On Mar 16, 2024, at 5:37 AM, David at Standard Ebooks <standar...@thegriggs.org> wrote:

> comma outside quote 

Hmmm, I wonder why lint didn’t flag those for me? It ran clean.

Thanks for the clue about the era.

Will fix both of these issues tomorrow.

[Alex Cabal]

I'll review this once David has cleared up the lint errors

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[David at Standard Ebooks]

OK, those errors are fixed.

The reason lint didn't pick up those commas outside of quotes was very simple: I had made a quick "last-minute" change from italics to quotes and forgot to run lint again! Let this be a lesson to you young 'uns.

David / Melbourne, Australia 

[Vince]

Hah, if I had a nickel …

[Alex Cabal]

In "Time Crime" and "Police Operation" there's "out-time" and "outtime".
Are these the same thing?

Also in "Time Crime", there are some lowercase instances of "outtime"
(but they are mostly uppercase). Are those also correct?

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[Alex Cabal]

Looks good David, I've gone ahead and released it. If we need to tweak
things based on my earlier question we an do a PR.

In general:

- Be careful with `every one` vs `everyone`. I had to revert almost all
changes here as they were used in the sense of "one of a set" and not "a
group of people".

- Our default CSS applies `text-indent: 0;` on every first child `<p>`
so it's rarely necessary to declare it in local.css. Many things like
`<header>` only ever have one `<p>` anyway.

Thanks!

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[David at Standard Ebooks]

OK, I've created a pull request for the only instance I can find of outtime with a hypen.

The lower-case vs capitalised Outtime instances all seem correct to me. The ones capitalised are all part of the name of organisations. Elsewhere it's an adjective for items or people from outtime.

David / Melbourne, Australia 

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[Alex Cabal]

Great, thanks!

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