[Next Project] The Luzumiyat by Abu al-Ala al-Ma'ari (trans. Rihani)

Weijia Cheng

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Apr 13, 2024, 3:29:50 PMApr 13

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PG: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/50457

IA: https://archive.org/details/luzumiyatabulal00rihagoog

There's not much to note about this one. This is a collection of poems by al-Ma'ari selected from two of the volumes he wrote during his lifetime. There is another translation of selections from the same volumes by al-Ma'ari which I chose this one over because it is more complete and Rihani is much better established as a Arabic translator and author.

Alex Cabal

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Apr 15, 2024, 12:16:14 AMApr 15

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If these are just selections, shouldn't we do a "Poetry" omnibus and
leave space for any that are not yet in English?

On 4/13/24 2:29 PM, Weijia Cheng wrote:
> PG: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/50457
> IA: https://archive.org/details/luzumiyatabulal00rihagoog
>
> There's not much to note about this one. This is a collection of poems
> by al-Ma'ari selected from two of the volumes he wrote during his
> lifetime. There is another translation

> <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/13086> of selections from the same

> volumes by al-Ma'ari which I chose this one over because it is more
> complete and Rihani is much better established as a Arabic translator
> and author.
>

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Weijia Cheng

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Apr 15, 2024, 9:21:07 AMApr 15

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I did consider that, but I personally don't think that's the right call in this case. I think that Rihani's choice in organizing his translation this way is an additional artistic effort on top of the translation that is worth preserving. For instance in the note for the first quatrain he explains why he selected some verses from another volume to open the collection. I also think his introductory poem and preface are interesting and wouldn't really go into an omnibus collection.

I think the most ideal way to present Al-Ma'ari's poetry (if copyrights didn't exist) would be in their original (non-overlapping, as far as I know) volumes, which have different themes and styles: Saqt az-Zand, the Luzumiyyat, and The Epistle of Forgiveness. I don't think any of these were translated with any completeness until decades afterwards (for instance I think the first Saqt az-Zand translation is from 1972). In contrast I think Rihani was literally one of the first people to produce a substantial translation of Al-Ma'ari's poetry, so I don't think we are going to get anything better for a while.

Instead of making this a generic "poetry" collection, I think we should present Rihani's efforts as-is assuming we wouldn't have to revise or replace anything until decades into the future.

Alex Cabal

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Apr 15, 2024, 10:07:57 PMApr 15

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OK, that sounds fine. I suppose if eventually the rest of the volume is
translated we can add it to our existing volume and update the
translator slug.

On 4/15/24 8:21 AM, Weijia Cheng wrote:
> I did consider that, but I personally don't think that's the right call
> in this case. I think that Rihani's choice in organizing his translation
> this way is an additional artistic effort on top of the translation that
> is worth preserving. For instance in the note for the first quatrain

> <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/50457/pg50457-images.html#xd21e2160> he explains why he selected some verses from another volume to open the collection. I also think his introductory poem and preface are interesting and wouldn't really go into an omnibus collection.

>
> I think the most ideal way to present Al-Ma'ari's poetry (if copyrights
> didn't exist) would be in their original (non-overlapping, as far as I

> know) volumes, which have different themes and styles: /Saqt az-Zand/,
> the /Luzumiyyat/, and/The Epistle of Forgiveness/. I don't think any of

> these were translated with any completeness until decades afterwards

> (for instance I think the first /Saqt az-Zand/ translation is from 1972
> <https://search.worldcat.org/title/saqt-al-zand-the-spark-from-the-flint/oclc/2544201>). In contrast I think Rihani was literally one of the first people to produce a substantial translation of Al-Ma'ari's poetry, so I don't think we are going to get anything better for a while.

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b34a1291-04cc-4098-9889-21bf828535f7n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b34a1291-04cc-4098-9889-21bf828535f7n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b34a1291-04cc-4098-9889-21bf828535f7n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b34a1291-04cc-4098-9889-21bf828535f7n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

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Weijia Cheng

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Apr 22, 2024, 8:58:28 AMApr 22

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Ok, even as I'm creating the repo I'm running into a typography issue. Here's how I think I'll solve it:

Al-Maʻarri's full(ish) Arabic name, Abu al-ʻAlaʼ al-Maʻarri, has two Arabic letters, ayn and hamza, that are both sometimes transliterated into apostrophes. A hamza is a glottal stop, which falls under 8.7.5.3.1. I have read that ayn is often represented as U+02BC, which is a modifying apostrophe as opposed to a punctuation typography, which seems very sensible to me.

Unfortunately, trying to create a draft with the author string "Abu al-ʻAlaʼ al-Maʻarri" crashes when it tries to generate cover.svg, I think because it doesn't like the special characters very much. Create-draft works fine when I replace the glottal stop and modifier apostrophe with normal straight apostrophes, though. However the generated cover.svg uses all right-single quotation marks, which looks odd to me since it doesn't match the "proper" curling direction of the glottal stops. I tested what would happen if I used the special apostrophes in cover.svg and that didn't seem to work either (I don't think League Spartan even has those characters). So what I'm proposing is this comrpomise:

While creating the draft, and in the metadata, the author string will be given as "Abu al-'Ala' al-Ma'arri" (all straight single quotes).
In the text, the author will be referred to as "Abu al-ʻAlaʼ" and "Abu al-ʻAlaʼ al-Maʻarri" with the glottal stop and modifying apostrophe (this also will involve modernizing Rihani's transliteration, which is "Abu’l-Ala’l-Ma’arri," a soundalike).
To generate the cover SVG, the author will be referred to as "Abu al-‘Ala’ al-Ma‘arri" (using left single quotation mark for the glottal stops and right single quotation mark for the modifying apostrophe)

I think that is the most consistent and typographically correct way to represent his name. I'm going to do this unless anyone here has any objections or can suggest a better way (I would be most curious to hear the opinions of any Arabic speakers if there are any in this mailing list).

Alex Cabal

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Apr 22, 2024, 12:36:41 PMApr 22

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That's fine, but in the metadata you should do the same thing as in the
text, as the metadata always has the typographically correct flavors of
punctuation and modifiers.

On 4/22/24 7:58 AM, Weijia Cheng wrote:
> Ok, even as I'm creating the repo I'm running into a typography issue.
> Here's how I think I'll solve it:
>
> Al-Maʻarri's full(ish) Arabic name, Abu al-ʻAlaʼ al-Maʻarri, has two
> Arabic letters, ayn and hamza, that are both sometimes transliterated
> into apostrophes. A hamza is a glottal stop, which falls under 8.7.5.3.1

> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.7.4/8-typography#8.7.5.3.1>. I have

> read that ayn is often represented as U+02BC

> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modifier_letter_apostrophe>, which is a

> modifying apostrophe as opposed to a punctuation typography, which seems
> very sensible to me.
>
> Unfortunately, trying to create a draft with the author string "Abu
> al-ʻAlaʼ al-Maʻarri" crashes when it tries to generate cover.svg, I
> think because it doesn't like the special characters very much.
> Create-draft works fine when I replace the glottal stop and modifier
> apostrophe with normal straight apostrophes, though. However the
> generated cover.svg uses all right-single quotation marks, which looks
> odd to me since it doesn't match the "proper" curling direction of the
> glottal stops. I tested what would happen if I used the special
> apostrophes in cover.svg and that didn't seem to work either (I don't
> think League Spartan even has those characters). So what I'm proposing
> is this comrpomise:
>

> * While creating the draft, and in the metadata, the author string

> will be given as "Abu al-'Ala' al-Ma'arri" (all straight single quotes).

> * In the text, the author will be referred to as "Abu al-ʻAlaʼ" and

> "Abu al-ʻAlaʼ al-Maʻarri" with the glottal stop and modifying
> apostrophe (this also will involve modernizing Rihani's
> transliteration, which is "Abu’l-Ala’l-Ma’arri," a soundalike).

> * To generate the cover SVG, the author will be referred to as "Abu

> al-‘Ala’ al-Ma‘arri" (using left single quotation mark for the
> glottal stops and right single quotation mark for the modifying
> apostrophe)
>
> I think that is the most consistent and typographically correct way to
> represent his name. I'm going to do this unless anyone here has any
> objections or can suggest a better way (I would be most curious to hear
> the opinions of any Arabic speakers if there are any in this mailing list).
>
> On Monday, April 15, 2024 at 7:07:57 PM UTC-7 Alex Cabal wrote:
>
> OK, that sounds fine. I suppose if eventually the rest of the volume is
> translated we can add it to our existing volume and update the
> translator slug.
>
> On 4/15/24 8:21 AM, Weijia Cheng wrote:
> > I did consider that, but I personally don't think that's the
> right call
> > in this case. I think that Rihani's choice in organizing his
> translation
> > this way is an additional artistic effort on top of the
> translation that
> > is worth preserving. For instance in the note for the first quatrain
> >

> <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/50457/pg50457-images.html#xd21e2160 <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/50457/pg50457-images.html#xd21e2160>> he explains why he selected some verses from another volume to open the collection. I also think his introductory poem and preface are interesting and wouldn't really go into an omnibus collection.

> >
> > I think the most ideal way to present Al-Ma'ari's poetry (if
> copyrights
> > didn't exist) would be in their original (non-overlapping, as far
> as I
> > know) volumes, which have different themes and styles: /Saqt
> az-Zand/,
> > the /Luzumiyyat/, and/The Epistle of Forgiveness/. I don't think
> any of
> > these were translated with any completeness until decades afterwards
> > (for instance I think the first /Saqt az-Zand/ translation is
> from 1972
> >

> <https://search.worldcat.org/title/saqt-al-zand-the-spark-from-the-flint/oclc/2544201 <https://search.worldcat.org/title/saqt-al-zand-the-spark-from-the-flint/oclc/2544201>>). In contrast I think Rihani was literally one of the first people to produce a substantial translation of Al-Ma'ari's poetry, so I don't think we are going to get anything better for a while.

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b34a1291-04cc-4098-9889-21bf828535f7n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b34a1291-04cc-4098-9889-21bf828535f7n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b34a1291-04cc-4098-9889-21bf828535f7n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b34a1291-04cc-4098-9889-21bf828535f7n%40googlegroups.com>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b34a1291-04cc-4098-9889-21bf828535f7n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b34a1291-04cc-4098-9889-21bf828535f7n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b34a1291-04cc-4098-9889-21bf828535f7n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b34a1291-04cc-4098-9889-21bf828535f7n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>>.

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Weijia Cheng

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Jun 5, 2024, 5:50:01 PMJun 5

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For the cover art, I would like to use Algerian Water Carrier. It is hard to find any painting that exactly maps onto anything in this book but if we imagine the person in the distance to be al-Ma'arri, I think this painting does a decent job at representing the themes of pessimism, nihilism, darkness, and blindness that appear in several of the poems. Plus there is a poem that speaks of "Groping along the labyrinthine street," which this painting evokes well. Here is a proposed crop:

Alex Cabal

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Jun 6, 2024, 11:33:30 AMJun 6

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OK, looks good!

On 6/5/24 4:50 PM, Weijia Cheng wrote:
> For the cover art, I would like to use Algerian Water Carrier

> <https://www.si.edu/object/algerian-water-carrier:saam_1911.5.1>. It is

> hard to find any painting that exactly maps onto anything in this book
> but if we imagine the person in the distance to be al-Ma'arri, I think
> this painting does a decent job at representing the themes of pessimism,
> nihilism, darkness, and blindness that appear in several of the poems.
> Plus there is a poem that speaks of "Groping along the labyrinthine
> street," which this painting evokes well. Here is a proposed crop:
>

> <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/50457/pg50457-images.html#xd21e2160 <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/50457/pg50457-images.html#xd21e2160> <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/50457/pg50457-images.html#xd21e2160 <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/50457/pg50457-images.html#xd21e2160>>> he explains why he selected some verses from another volume to open the collection. I also think his introductory poem and preface are interesting and wouldn't really go into an omnibus collection.

> > >
> > > I think the most ideal way to present Al-Ma'ari's poetry (if
> > copyrights
> > > didn't exist) would be in their original (non-overlapping, as far
> > as I
> > > know) volumes, which have different themes and styles: /Saqt
> > az-Zand/,
> > > the /Luzumiyyat/, and/The Epistle of Forgiveness/. I don't think
> > any of
> > > these were translated with any completeness until decades
> afterwards
> > > (for instance I think the first /Saqt az-Zand/ translation is
> > from 1972
> > >
> >

> <https://search.worldcat.org/title/saqt-al-zand-the-spark-from-the-flint/oclc/2544201 <https://search.worldcat.org/title/saqt-al-zand-the-spark-from-the-flint/oclc/2544201> <https://search.worldcat.org/title/saqt-al-zand-the-spark-from-the-flint/oclc/2544201 <https://search.worldcat.org/title/saqt-al-zand-the-spark-from-the-flint/oclc/2544201>>>). In contrast I think Rihani was literally one of the first people to produce a substantial translation of Al-Ma'ari's poetry, so I don't think we are going to get anything better for a while.

> > >
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Weijia Cheng

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Jun 7, 2024, 8:19:31 AMJun 7

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Ok, this is now ready to review here! https://github.com/weijia-cheng/abu-al-ala-al-maarri_the-luzumiyat_ameen-rihani

Alex Cabal

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Jun 10, 2024, 2:47:10 PMJun 10

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Great work Weijia, I've released it. Thanks!

> > > >
> > > > I think the most ideal way to present Al-Ma'ari's poetry (if
> > > copyrights
> > > > didn't exist) would be in their original (non-overlapping, as
> far
> > > as I
> > > > know) volumes, which have different themes and styles: /Saqt
> > > az-Zand/,
> > > > the /Luzumiyyat/, and/The Epistle of Forgiveness/. I don't think
> > > any of
> > > > these were translated with any completeness until decades
> > afterwards
> > > > (for instance I think the first /Saqt az-Zand/ translation is
> > > from 1972
> > > >
> > >
> >

> > > >
> > > > --
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> Google
> > > > Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
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> it,
> > > send
> > > > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> > > > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> > > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > > >
> > >
> >

> > >
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> > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > >
> >

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