[Next Project] Wild Animals I Have Known by Ernest Thompson Seton

[Jon Erdman]

Having wrapped up my first book, I'd like to try my hand at another one that's a bit more difficult. I was interested in trying out "Wild Animals I have Known" by Ernest Thompson Seton. It's in the wanted list under Moderate Difficulty.

For my cover art, I'd like to use "Fox Hunt" by Winslow Homer from 1893 as it's a great painting and it depicts two of the animals featured as chapters in the book. The only high-resolution copy that I was able to find is cropped down to a square in the center of the painting, but it includes the entire area that I would like to use for my cover, so that's workable for me. I just am not sure if it's suitable for the artwork gallery. I have page scans from a pre-1930 book too, so everything is in order. I've attached my mockup and the high-res cropped copy that I found.

Book scan page: 

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Pennsylvania_Academy_of_the_Fine_Art/cZ-fAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=winslow%20homer%20fox%20hunt&pg=PA124-IA17&printsec=frontcover

Copyright page:

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Pennsylvania_Academy_of_the_Fine_Art/cZ-fAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=winslow%20homer%20fox%20hunt&pg=PR2&printsec=frontcover

If this is all OK, I have access to submit to the gallery myself if you'd rather I do that. Otherwise I think everything that would be needed to put it in the gallery is here too.

[Jon Erdman]

Forgot to mention:

Project Gutenberg link: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3031

Page scans: https://archive.org/details/wild-animals-i-have-known-1898/page/n5/mode/2up

[David]

There is a fairly hi res version of that painting on Wikimedia, and an even higher version from its source. I don't know what all the licensing issues are around these images, though. Perhaps all that matters is that the painting is definitely PD?

FWIW! David / Fife, UK

[Jon Erdman]

I saw the Flickr one, the uploader had attached a copyright to it and disabled downloading. Of course, there are ways around the disabled downloading, but I thought it might be best to avoid that one with the copyright statement being attached to it. 

That said, it's definitely public domain, so perhaps that rights statement can be safely ignored because the uploader does not, in fact, own a copyright on a public domain painting. If Alex is comfortable with the version from Flickr in spite of those potential issues then I'm fine with it and will happily grab that version. For the purposes of producing this book, the cropped copy I found will work fine, but for the purpose of completeness in the artwork gallery, the Flickr one is definitely a little better.

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[Alex Cabal]

OK! This looks like themed shorts so I would structure them like a
typical short fiction omnibus - <article epub:type="se:short-story">
elements instead of <section>.

As the wanted list notes, PG has removed formatting so you'll have to go
through the page scans and restore that. Note however that we don't want
the illustrations.

You can submit your artwork to the database regardless of whether or not
the manager approves it, because if they don't then someone else could
use it for a different book.

Please send a link to your repo once you start.

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[Jon Erdman]

There are a few illustrations that seem to be part of the actual story. Specifically, the music transcriptions in the Crow chapter and the diagram of the trail that the rabbit took through the woods - these are referenced directly in the text. There is a similar music transcription in the Partridge chapter, however based on a cursory glance of the text, I don't think it's strictly required to understand the story in the same way that the Crow ones are. I assume I should keep those (with perhaps the exception of the Partridge song transcription)?

The poem before the "Bingo" chapter should be treated as a full-page Epigraph, right?

[Alex Cabal]

Send a link to your repo so I can assign you a manager, and they can
help you with these questions

> > https://www.google.com/books/edition/ <https://www.google.com/
> books/edition/>

> > The_Pennsylvania_Academy_of_the_Fine_Art/cZ-fAAAAMAAJ?
> > hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=winslow%20homer%20fox%20hunt&pg=PA124-
> > IA17&printsec=frontcover
> >
> > Copyright page:

> > https://www.google.com/books/edition/ <https://www.google.com/
> books/edition/>

> > The_Pennsylvania_Academy_of_the_Fine_Art/cZ-fAAAAMAAJ?
> >
> hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=winslow%20homer%20fox%20hunt&pg=PR2&printsec=frontcover
> >
> > If this is all OK, I have access to submit to the gallery myself if
> > you'd rather I do that. Otherwise I think everything that would be
> > needed to put it in the gallery is here too.
> >
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[Weijia Cheng]

I think the default stance of our site is that if we can prove a painting is in the public domain through finding a photographic reproduction in a public domain book, any contemporary photographic reproduction is fair game, because you cannot claim copyright on a "slavish" (I hate this term by the way) photographic copy of a public domain painting. But I am neither an IP lawyer nor the editor in chief so Alex has the final word.

On Friday, August 22, 2025 at 11:35:08 AM UTC-4 Alex Cabal wrote:

[Jon Erdman]

Git repo:

https://github.com/homestar92/ernest-thompson-seton_wild-animals-i-have-known

For now, I submitted the big version from Flickr to the artworks gallery along with my book scan links. If that's determined to be unsuitable then I will use one of the other available versions that are a bit lower resolution.

[Alex Cabal]

OK, Lukas will manage this with Vince reviewing.

On 8/22/25 11:23 AM, Jon Erdman wrote:
> Git repo:
> https://github.com/homestar92/ernest-thompson-seton_wild-animals-i-have-
> known

> > https://www.google.com/books/edition/ <https://
> www.google.com/books/edition/>

> > The_Pennsylvania_Academy_of_the_Fine_Art/cZ-fAAAAMAAJ?
> > hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=winslow%20homer%20fox%20hunt&pg=PA124-
> > IA17&printsec=frontcover
> >
> > Copyright page:

> > https://www.google.com/books/edition/ <https://
> www.google.com/books/edition/>

> > The_Pennsylvania_Academy_of_the_Fine_Art/cZ-fAAAAMAAJ?
> >
> hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=winslow%20homer%20fox%20hunt&pg=PR2&printsec=frontcover
> >
> > If this is all OK, I have access to submit to the gallery
> myself if
> > you'd rather I do that. Otherwise I think everything that
> would be
> > needed to put it in the gallery is here too.
> >
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[Alex Cabal]

If an illustration is directly mentioned then yes, you should include
it. We keep those kinds of illustrations but remove purely decorative
ones, which is going to be 99% of the ones in this book.

Music scores should be recreated in MuseScore with the source file in
./images/ and exported to SVG, see
https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/how-to-create-figures-for-music-scores

Other black and white line drawings like the ones here should also be
traced to SVG.

On 8/22/25 11:10 AM, Jon Erdman wrote:

> > https://www.google.com/books/edition/ <https://www.google.com/
> books/edition/>

> > The_Pennsylvania_Academy_of_the_Fine_Art/cZ-fAAAAMAAJ?
> > hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=winslow%20homer%20fox%20hunt&pg=PA124-
> > IA17&printsec=frontcover
> >
> > Copyright page:

> > https://www.google.com/books/edition/ <https://www.google.com/
> books/edition/>

> > The_Pennsylvania_Academy_of_the_Fine_Art/cZ-fAAAAMAAJ?
> >
> hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=winslow%20homer%20fox%20hunt&pg=PR2&printsec=frontcover
> >
> > If this is all OK, I have access to submit to the gallery myself if
> > you'd rather I do that. Otherwise I think everything that would be
> > needed to put it in the gallery is here too.
> >
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[Jon Erdman]

OK, so, first things first to get this off the ground. The Gutenberg version, as mentioned on the Wanted Ebooks page, has little to no formatting. It's also missing some actual content that are in the scan.

The preface is titled "Note to the Reader" in the scan. Presumably that title needs to be restored in the text in a header. In the scans, it occurs after the table of contents immediately before the first story. However, it seems based on the descriptions in the SEMoS to fit the definition of a preface, and presumably should be treated as frontmatter, right?.

The scanned book also has a dedication which isn't present in the Gutenberg version. Presumably I should add that in too since Dedications are specifically listed in the SEMoS as a type of frontmatter. There are a number of different editions from 1929 and earlier on Archive.org, and the dedication is not always to the same person. If this needs to be added back in then I imagine the correct answer is to stick to the specific text from the scan that I intend to link in the content.opf

[Lukas Bystricky]

Cover looks good, I've assigned it to the project. 

Regarding the poem before Bingo, I think it would be better if you moved that as (an [Editorial]) into the section header and treat it as in 7.4.5.

The "Note to Reader" looks like a preface to me, so yeah treat it as front matter. For the dedication, you should add it back based on the most recent PD edition (which is also what your scans should be). 

[Jon Erdman]

I ran into a snag trying to build the toc. When I run se build-toc, I get an error message that it "Couldn't find title in: lobo-the-king-of-currumpaw.xhtml".

I've looked that file over and I can't see anything wrong with it. The title tag is there, it appears to be in the right place. but the tools won't build my TOC.  Not sure why it isn't working for me.

[Jon Erdman]

Nevermind, I figured it out. Forgot to add the epub:type="title" to my h2 tags. Once I did that, the problem was resolved

[Jon Erdman]

I found another thing I'm not sure how to handle.

I know that SEMoS 8.2.11.3 says that titles of poems referenced in the text should be quoted. What about if a poem is referenced but not by title. For example, this text from the gutenberg transcription of this book (the bingo chapter, if you want to go looking for it in the repo/transcription):

...to the old rhyme of the ‘Franckelyn’s dogge’ pinned on the logs near by...

The poem is actually given in the epigraph of the chapter, and its name is "Bingo", with the "Franckelyn's dogge" being the subject matter of the poem, not its title. Do I treat this as if it were the title of the poem and titlecase it and quote it? Or do I leave the capitalization as-is and wrap it in scare quotes?

[Jon Erdman]

Sorry for the rapid-fire here, another question.

As we discussed before, the standard is to use the newest public domain scans that are available - The scans from 1926 that I found have textual changes in the preface compared to the 1898 edition that the Gutenberg transcript was based on. Do I go ahead and reproduce these changes in mine? Will I need to reflect that in the metadata at all? I don't suspect that the text in the book proper has changed, but I've just been scanning the start of each paragraph to make sure everything aligns since I know that this gutenberg transcription is known to have formatting issues.

There are other 1926 editions on Internet Archive that match the 1898 editions, but the ones with added content are logically the most likely to be the newest.

[Lukas Bystricky]

Regarding Franckelyn's dogge, I think you can titlecase it and treat it as a poem title. Do this in an editorial commit.

For the scans if it's all just small changes then you can make them to get the transcription to match the scans. In that case you don't need to add any extra information to the metadata. If it requires a lot of changes then that's a different conversation, and we'd probably need Alex's input before you get too far along. 

[Jon Erdman]

There are entire paragraphs added to the preface, so definitely not small changes.

The latest scans that are old enough to be public domain are from 1926, and there are three different scans that bear a 1926 copyright date: one that is a perfect match to the 1898 first edition (and to the Gutenberg transcription) and one that has somewhat different text in the preface (it adds one paragraph and removes another), and a third one that has a different dedication and matches the later preface text. The actual stories appear to be the same across both variants.

For reference, these are the three 1926 scans:

First 1926 variant, a perfect match for 1898 first edition and Gutenberg: https://archive.org/details/wildanimalsihave0000erne_w2t4/page/n5/mode/2up

Second 1926 variant, which adds one paragraph to the preface and removes one other: https://archive.org/details/bwb_W9-CQB-098/page/12/mode/2up

Third 1926 variant, which has the different dedication: https://archive.org/details/bwb_T4-APT-726/page/4/mode/2up

I suspect that the order I've listed them is the order they were released, but I can't prove it - they all have 1926 copyright dates. The preface in the second and third versions listed specifically allude to events that happened in 1904 so they clearly are the later text. Hopefully that provides enough context for you and/or Alex to make a decision

Additionally, there is a tailpiece in this book - a one page piece of line-art. I don't believe it's referenced in the text (I haven't finished reading to know for sure though) but it is listed in the ToC in the print edition. I presume that I should not include it unless I see it referenced directly in the text, right?

In the meantime, I'm just going to work on the more straightforward stories in the book and circle back to the more complicated parts.

[Alex Cabal]

It sounds like you should make our book match the preface for the 1926
edition. The dedication is a toss-up so just leave it. Don't include
decorative illustrations and it sounds like the tailpiece is decorative.

> it as in 7.4.5 <https://standardebooks.org/
> manual/1.8.4/single-page#7.4.5>.

> scores <https://standardebooks.org/
> contribute/how-tos/how-to-create-
> figures-for-music-scores>

> edition/> <https://www.google.com/

> <https://www.google.com/>
> > books/edition/>
> > >
> The_Pennsylvania_Academy_of_the_Fine_Art/cZ-fAAAAMAAJ?
> > >
> hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=winslow%20homer%20fox%20hunt&pg=PA124-
> > > IA17&printsec=frontcover
> > >
> > > Copyright page:
> > > https://www.google.com/books/
> edition/ <https://www.google.com/books/

> edition/> <https://www.google.com/

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[Jon Erdman]

Regarding the illustrations:

There are ten musical transcriptions in the Silverspot chapter.

Numbers 2, 6, and 10 are not mentioned in the text by name, but they are placed mid-sentence in such a way that they are clearly meant to be read. Additionally, numbers 4 and 5 are explicitly mentioned by name. In theory, this means that numbers 1, 3, 7, 8, and 9 could be excluded.

Not sure exactly the right way to proceed. The letter of the policy would be to include only 2, 4, 5, 6, and 10 since those are the only strictly necessary ones. But I think it would be very confusing to a reader to see numbered compositions but with several numbers missing. If that's still the correct answer I'll do it that way, but it seems to me, in order to not be confusing to a reader, I need to either include all 10 or I need to renumber the ones we do keep as 1-5 and make an editorial commit to change the number in the text that we use to refer to them. Thoughts?

[Lukas Bystricky]

I would keep all of them. If they're meant to be read they're not exactly decorative. 

[Jon Erdman]

I haven't proofread yet, but I added the musical scores to silverspot-the-story-of-a-crow.xhtml. In the scans, some went in a very obvious location and I preserved those locations. Some were just dropped at the end of a line, whether it made sense or not and since ebooks won't always end a line in the same place for everyone, I tried to put them where I felt the flowed the most nicely. Before I get too much further into this, I'd really appreciate if you could take a look and tell me if I did that right.

One thing the linter is complaining about for this file is the <figcaption> tags on all ten images. I'm getting the error c-011 "Element with text-align: center; but text-indent is 1em." I copied over the css for figures and figcaptions into local.css. Any advice on how to resolve that linting error. Ignore all other errors, I've been taking this one story at a time and so far I've only finished Lobo and tentatively finished Silverspot (pending proofreading and resolving the linter error)?

Since the music transcriptions went mid-paragraph, I didn't close out the paragraph tag, I just dropped the <figure> tag right where I thought they best fit. I think this is the reason for the linter error as it goes away if I close the paragraph on the line before and open a new one on the line after. But this isn't exactly accurate to the story - it'll cause the next line to indent but in most of these cases it's not the start of a new paragraph.

[Jon Erdman]

So I think I figured it out - I closed out the paragraph tags on the lines preceding the music transcriptions. Then I added the figures. Then I started a new paragraph with class="continued" which disables the indentation and semantically indicates that I'm continuing a prior paragraph.

Technically the SEMoS only calls out the use of this class on paragraph tags following block quotes, but these music transcriptions are much like quotes, in a sense, as they are bird calls that the narrator "translates" to English. So while I think it's a slightly different situation than using a blockquote, it seems like the right call to me for this admittedly odd and probably unprecedented scenario. Take a look and let me know what you think (just the silverspot chapter - I'm not done with the others). I'd definitely welcome input and feedback.

[Alex Cabal]

The continued class is only for paragraphs which are interrupted by a
different block (like a blockquote) and continue as paragraphs
afterwards, without indentation. Page scans typically indicate this.
Your lint error is because you have tried to center text, but the text
you are centering is also indented, which causes it to be off-center.
You should open the file in a web browser and use the inspector to see
what styles are being applied and why. Then remove any indentation from
text you are trying to center.

> wildanimalsihave0000erne_w2t4/ <https://archive.org/
> details/wildanimalsihave0000erne_w2t4/>

> > page/n5/mode/2up
> > Second 1926 variant, which adds one paragraph to the
> preface and removes
> > one other: https://archive.org/details/bwb_W9-

> CQB-098/page/12/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/
> bwb_W9-CQB-098/page/12/mode/2up>

> > Third 1926 variant, which has the different
> dedication: https://
> > archive.org/details/bwb_T4-APT-726/page/4/mode/2up

> <http://archive.org/details/bwb_T4-APT-726/page/4/mode/2up>

> > it as in 7.4.5 <https://standardebooks.org/ <https://
> standardebooks.org/>

> > https://standardebooks.org/contribute/ <https://
> standardebooks.org/contribute/>
> > how-tos/how-to-create-figures-for-music-
> > scores <https://standardebooks.org/ <https://
> standardebooks.org/>

> > > > https://www.google.com/books/ <https://
> www.google.com/books/>
> > edition/ <https://www.google.com/books/ <https://
> www.google.com/books/>
> > edition/> <https://www.google.com/ <https://
> www.google.com/>

> > <https://www.google.com/ <https://www.google.com/>>
> > > books/edition/>
> > > >
> > The_Pennsylvania_Academy_of_the_Fine_Art/cZ-fAAAAMAAJ?
> > > >
> > hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=winslow%20homer%20fox%20hunt&pg=PA124-
> > > > IA17&printsec=frontcover
> > > >
> > > > Copyright page:

> > > > https://www.google.com/books/ <https://
> www.google.com/books/>
> > edition/ <https://www.google.com/books/ <https://
> www.google.com/books/>
> > edition/> <https://www.google.com/ <https://
> www.google.com/>

> > <https://www.google.com/ <https://www.google.com/>>
> > > books/edition/>
> > > >
> > The_Pennsylvania_Academy_of_the_Fine_Art/cZ-fAAAAMAAJ?
> > > >
> > >
> >
> hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=winslow%20homer%20fox%20hunt&pg=PR2&printsec=frontcover
> > > >
> > > > If this is all OK, I have access to
> > submit to the gallery myself if
> > > > you'd rather I do that. Otherwise I
> > think everything that would be
> > > > needed to put it in the gallery is
> > here too.
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> > > > standardebooks/b4da9ef6-
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> <http://40googlegroups.com> <http://40googlegroups.com
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> > > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
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> d/msgid/>
> > standardebooks/b4da9ef6->>
> > > >
> > a7ce-4278-84e8-719e6809d12en%40googlegroups.com

> <http://40googlegroups.com> <http://40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>>
> > > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
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> f04b-4434-85f0-2804cbcc7e88n%40googlegroups.com?
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[Jon Erdman]

Would the continued class not be appropriate when the paragraph is interrupted by a figure? A Figure is a block, no? These music transcriptions are kind of unique in that they are intended to be read in-line as part of the sentence because it's depicting what was "said" by the bird (in the form of a bird call). As an example, one such passage reads in the scans as:

"He checked his flight and called out, 'Be on your guard,' or {music transcription} and rose much higher in the air."

[Alex Cabal]

I haven't looked at your repo, but I am addressing the lint error you
received. You tried to center text, but the text was also indented,
which caused the lint error. If you tried adding a 'continued' class is
to correct that, then that is unlikely to be semantically correct. You
should style it directly with CSS to remove the indent instead of using
classes with semantic meaning to achieve a specific appearance.

> > > Gutenberg: https://archive.org/details/ <https://archive.org/
> details/>
> > wildanimalsihave0000erne_w2t4/ <https://archive.org/ <https://
> archive.org/>

> > details/wildanimalsihave0000erne_w2t4/>
> > > page/n5/mode/2up
> > > Second 1926 variant, which adds one paragraph to the
> > preface and removes

> > > one other: https://archive.org/details/bwb_W9- <https://
> archive.org/details/bwb_W9->
> > CQB-098/page/12/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/ <https://
> archive.org/details/>

> > bwb_W9-CQB-098/page/12/mode/2up>
> > > Third 1926 variant, which has the different
> > dedication: https://
> > > archive.org/details/bwb_T4-APT-726/page/4/mode/2up <http://
> archive.org/details/bwb_T4-APT-726/page/4/mode/2up>

> > <http://archive.org/details/bwb_T4-APT-726/page/4/mode/2up

> standardebooks.org/> <https://
> > standardebooks.org/ <http://standardebooks.org/>>

> standardebooks.org/contribute/> <https://
> > standardebooks.org/contribute/ <http://standardebooks.org/

> contribute/>>
> > > how-tos/how-to-create-figures-for-music-
> > > scores <https://standardebooks.org/ <https://

> standardebooks.org/> <https://
> > standardebooks.org/ <http://standardebooks.org/>>

> books/> <https://
> > www.google.com/books/ <http://www.google.com/books/>>

> > > edition/ <https://www.google.com/books/ <https://

> www.google.com/books/> <https://
> > www.google.com/books/ <http://www.google.com/books/>>
> > > edition/> <https://www.google.com/ <https://www.google.com/>
> <https://
> > www.google.com/ <http://www.google.com/>>
> > > <https://www.google.com/ <https://www.google.com/> <https://
> www.google.com/ <https://www.google.com/>>>

> > > > books/edition/>
> > > > >
> > > The_Pennsylvania_Academy_of_the_Fine_Art/cZ-fAAAAMAAJ?
> > > > >
> > > hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=winslow%20homer%20fox%20hunt&pg=PA124-
> > > > > IA17&printsec=frontcover
> > > > >
> > > > > Copyright page:
> > > > > https://www.google.com/books/ <https://www.google.com/

> books/> <https://
> > www.google.com/books/ <http://www.google.com/books/>>

> > > edition/ <https://www.google.com/books/ <https://

> www.google.com/books/> <https://
> > www.google.com/books/ <http://www.google.com/books/>>
> > > edition/> <https://www.google.com/ <https://www.google.com/>
> <https://
> > www.google.com/ <http://www.google.com/>>
> > > <https://www.google.com/ <https://www.google.com/> <https://
> www.google.com/ <https://www.google.com/>>>

> > > > books/edition/>
> > > > >
> > > The_Pennsylvania_Academy_of_the_Fine_Art/cZ-fAAAAMAAJ?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=winslow%20homer%20fox%20hunt&pg=PR2&printsec=frontcover
> > > > >
> > > > > If this is all OK, I have access to
> > > submit to the gallery myself if
> > > > > you'd rather I do that. Otherwise I
> > > think everything that would be
> > > > > needed to put it in the gallery is
> > > here too.
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> d/msgid/> <https://

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> > > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://
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> > groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>

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> d/msgid/> <https://

> > groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>>>

> > > > > standardebooks/b4da9ef6-
> > > >
> > > a7ce-4278-84e8-719e6809d12en%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>
> <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>>
> > > > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>
> > > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>>>
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> <http://groups.google.com/ <http://groups.google.com/>

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> > > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://

> groups.google.com/d/msgid/> <https://

> > groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>
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> <http://groups.google.com/ <http://groups.google.com/>

> > d/msgid/>
> > > standardebooks/b4da9ef6->>
> > > > >
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> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>
> <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>>

> > > > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>
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> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>>>?
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> <http://40googlegroups.com>

> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>
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> > groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/ <http://
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> > > >
> > >
> > d8ca09c2-26f2-4833-8189-9249edb01251n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>

> <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
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[Jon Erdman]

What I had done wrong is I had a <figure> inside of a paragraph. So it was essentially like this before I fixe dit:

<p>The first part of a paragraph.

      <figure>

          <figcaption>A caption</figcaption>

     </figure>

the second part of the paragraph</p>

I discovered that this was not syntactically correct at all because you can't put a block inside of a paragraph. And I think the centering that happens in the figcaption css was causing the linting error. But the main issue was that I was misusing the <figure> block by putting it inside of a <p> block.

I changed it so that I close out the paragraph block before the figure block and open a new one after the figure block. That fixed the linting error. I then added the continued class because gramatically speaking, that second paragraph block is a continuation of the paragraph that was started before the figure block (if that all makes sense).

Basically, I think my use of the continued class is actually correct here. I'll change it if it isn't, of course. But I think it was applied correctly.

[Lukas Bystricky]

I think that looks correct. Normally I would say to move the figures to an actual paragraph break, but it seems like that's a stylistic choice to put them in the middle of the paragraph. 

[Jon Erdman]

Yeah, the way it's laid out, if they were moved to a paragraph break there are some sentences that would just end abruptly, and for the ones that don't have that problem there are several bird calls mentioned in some of the paragraphs, so moving them to the end would make it super hard to follow which is which without consulting the alt text. The others I moved to where they seemed to make the most sense in the flow of the story - many were aligned with line breaks in the print edition (sometimes mid-word) and that doesn't exactly work for an ebook.

I've started working on the Raggylug chapter, and I have two other questions that have come up and then I *think* the formatting and typesetting is all straightforward from there on. First question, the Gutenberg transcript had the Bingo poem at the end of Raggylug. I moved it to an epigraph in the Bingo chapter header as recommended earlier in this thread (this also much more closely matches the layout of the book). That's all committed and pushed so you could take a look if you want - it's right at the top of the bingo chapter. I'm just not sure how to format it. I did poetry formatting as defined in the SEMoS, but I didn't see an example for how to format the title of the poem when that appears alongside it in an epigraph. I have it tentatively just as another stanza, but I'm sure that's not correct. I don't think I can use an <h#> heading because then it'll want to be part of the ToC, which I also don't think is correct. Any thoughts on how to format that, or does it look good as-is?

Second question comes from looking at the scans:

https://archive.org/details/bwb_T4-APT-726/page/78/mode/2up

In the Raggylug chapter, it has a scene where the character recalls a story told by his mother, and that story is presented in italics. I think that is supposed to be a block quote, but I'm not sure what the right epub:type is. I was considering epub:type="se:short-story" as it seems the best fit? The block quote is also italicized in the page scans - presumably I should retain that italicization?

[Lukas Bystricky]

Do you need the poem title? The chapter title is also Bingo.

You can put the story in an unsemanticated blockquote. If you want to keep the italics target it with CSS. 

By the way, the Bingo poem looks like it can make use of the Standard Blackletter font. This is done in for example the dedications in Unspoken Sermons. You'll need to copy the font file, and then adjust the CSS accordingly; you can have a look at the source code for Unspoken Sermons to see exactly what you'll need. 

[Jon Erdman]

I don't necessarily need the title, no. I just assumed it would be necessary since it was there in the original text, but I have no qualms with removing it if you're OK with it. The full chapter title is actually "Bingo, the Story of My Dog", so the two titles aren't the same, if that changes anything.

I will let that one go unsemanticated. There are three blockquotes in the book that I noticed in a cursory flip-through of the scans which each have somewhat unique styling, however I think I should be able to target each of them individually with a CSS selector if needed while stills staying within the standards in the SEMoS (no using IDs as CSS hooks, no classes, etc)

[Jon Erdman]

I thought I was done with weird formatting, but I ran into another one. Not sure what to do about this. For context, it ends the paragraph abruptly as pictured, then goes into a list.

Do I just do the last word of the sentence, then a colon, then a word joiner character, then the em dash, basically as pictured? Do I ditch the em dash in an editorial commit since a colon alone seems like a perfectly reasonable way to transition into a list?

[Lukas Bystricky]

Sure, you can remove the dash as an editorial commit. You can format the list with <ul>. 

[Jon Erdman]

Another unusual dash preceded by a colon. Not sure how to best handle this either. I tentatively have it basically as-written in the scans, "...told:{word joiner}—eight"

Is this fine? I could also envision getting rid of the dash as I think just the colon gets the point across nicely. I haven't proofread yet, but I have gone through the full process up to that point, including resolving all linter errors, so I'm quite comfortable saying this is the last formatting question, then it's just proofreading and completing the long description in the metadata, which I can't exactly do until I've read the whole book.

[Jon Erdman]

Sorry, forgot to attach the screenshot to the last one:

[Lukas Bystricky]

I think most producers probably wouldn't do anything there, assuming typogrify does something reasonable, but there's no harm in removing the dash as an editorial if you want. (I should have clarified this in the answer to the previous question too.)

[Vince]

Yes, this sort of thing edges into re-editing the book, which we avoid.

For example, there are almost 12K colon em-dash combinations in the corpus. It’s extremely common, and therefore doesn’t make much sense to change on a single production.

[Jon Erdman]

At this point, I have finished proofreading and I believe that this is ready for review.

[Vince]

OK, I’ll get to it in the next day or three.

[Vince]

Good work, Jon. I’ve opened a review issue with several things on it.

One of them is in reference to the merge you have in the repository. I believe Alex has said in the past he doesn’t want merges, only rebases, but I’m mentioning it here so he can correct me if I'm mis-remembering.

On Aug 30, 2025, at 5:15 PM, Vince <vr_se...@letterboxes.org> wrote:

Good work, Jon. I’ve opened a review issue with several things on it.

One of them is in reference to the merge you have in the repository. I believe Alex has said in the past he doesn’t want merges, only rebases, but I’m mentioning it here so he can correct me if I'm mis-remembering.

[Alex Cabal]

That's right, no merge commits please

On 8/30/25 5:26 PM, Vince wrote:
> Good work, Jon. I’ve opened a review issue with several things on it.
>
> One of them is in reference to the merge you have in the repository. I
> believe Alex has said in the past he doesn’t want merges, only rebases,
> but I’m mentioning it here so he can correct me if I'm mis-remembering.
>
>
>> On Aug 30, 2025, at 5:15 PM, Vince <vr_se...@letterboxes.org> wrote:
>>
>> Good work, Jon. I’ve opened a review issue with several things on it.
>>
>> One of them is in reference to the merge you have in the repository. I
>> believe Alex has said in the past he doesn’t want merges, only
>> rebases, but I’m mentioning it here so he can correct me if I'm mis-
>> remembering.
>>
>>
>>> On Aug 28, 2025, at 3:54 PM, Vince <vr_se...@letterboxes.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> OK, I’ll get to it in the next day or three.
>>>
>>>> On Aug 28, 2025, at 7:50 AM, Jon Erdman <homes...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> At this point, I have finished proofreading and I believe that this
>>>> is ready for review.
>>
>

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[Jon Erdman]

I was out of town this weekend so this is my first time looking at the review.

I'll try to tackle the merge commit first. In theory, it shouldn't be much different than a rebase to separate editorial and non-editorial commits I think.

[Jon Erdman]

Question with the review: You cited "The Story of My Dog" in the "Bingo" chapter as a subtitle rather than part of the title. Presumably, the same applies to all of the similarly structured chapter names (E.G., "Lobo, the King of Currumpaw", "Silverspot, the Story of a Crow", etc)?

[Jon Erdman]

In the review, you mention the H's in Raggylug. Maybe my ctrl-F skills are failing me, but I'm not finding any outside of the part where it references the different points on the illustration. Are you referring to "Double-Bar H" in the Pacing Mustang chapter?

Raggylug does mention that a rabbit made a V with his ears. Is this perhaps what you were referring to herer?

[Vince]

I replied on the review issue.

[Vince]

I believe this is ready for you, Alex.

The song is italicized in the scans and here; I left it because it’s an animal, and thus loosely falls under SEMoS 8.2.6.

The dedication has different formatting in the scans, but it’s working around a picture that isn’t present here.

Jon added some CSS to cap the size of the music SVG’s. They still vary a bit, but the only way to get them consistent is with setting the width of each picture individually, which I assume is too fussy.