[First Project] The Sea-Hawk, by Rafael Sabatini

[Kevin Palm]

I tried to post this in the thread I started about making another attempt at "The Sea-Hawk", but it keeps getting deleted for some reason. :-(

My GitHub repository:
https://github.com/PiperKev/rafael-sabatini_the-sea-hawk

[Alex Cabal]

Vince, can you manage this with David reviewing?

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[Vince Rice]

Will do.

[David at Standard Ebooks]

Can review, please just be sure to tag me in by name when you're ready.

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[Kevin Palm]

Will do!

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[Kevin Palm]

First question of the day!  ;-)

Back when I first attempted this book, Alex posted

"Not much to note here. Remove the word "Chapter" from the chapter
headers. Since this book is in parts you will have to wrap each
chapter's <section> in its parent part <section>, see the
Recomposability section of the manual."

I found an existing book that has the same type of structure ("Penguin Island"), so I have a general idea how to code the part/chapter division, but is it advisable to do the coding BEFORE splitting the body.xhtml file, or should I just go ahead and split it and fix the resulting files as I get to them?

Cheers,
Kevin

[Vince]

For your first (few) book(s), you want to follow the Step by Step guide exactly.

[Alex Cabal]

That advice I wrote is very old and is now out of date. Make sure to
check the manual for the new usage of the `data-parent` attribute instead.

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[Kevin Palm]

Roger that!

So, I've split, cleaned, and run Typogriphy, and committed after all three.  I'm now in the part of the Step by Step guide that tells me to run se titlecase, and I'm confused.  The titles of each chapter are in all uppercase, as well as the titles of the two parts.  Do I run se titlecase on each file individually?  And on the two Parts files as well as each chapter?

[Vince]

The Step by Step specifies that the input to se titlecase is a string, not a file. In addition, all of the se commands have help, e.g.

se titlecase --help

and the help also shows that the input is a string.

usage: titlecase [-h] [-n] [STRING ...]

Convert a string to titlecase.

positional arguments:

  STRING            a string

The Tip following the mention of using it discusses how some editors can be configured to call external macros. If your editor doesn’t allow that, then you will have to run it on each of the titles individually (copy the title, run se titlecase on the command line with that title, copy the result back into the file). Some editors have the native ability to titlecase a string; it’s sometimes easier to use the editor’s titlecase instead, and later when you run lint it will tell you if there are any differences that need to be corrected, i.e. instances where the editor produced a different result than se titlecase would.

[Kevin Palm]

Thanks, Vince!  Sorry to ask so many questions,  it's all new to me!

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[Vince]

No worries, we’ve all been there! :)

[Kevin Palm]

Not sure if this should be its own thread or not, but here goes:  I ran modernize spelling on my repository and forgot to check the changes.  I then ran find-mismatched-diacritics, found one, and changed it.  I then made an Editorial commit and pushed it to GitHub.  I looked at my GitHub repository to check the commit, and discovered all of the changes that modernize spelling made in addition to the mismatched diacritics.  I was happy with the modernize spelling changes, but the comment I made in my commit only listed the mismatched diacritics, which wasn't accurate.  I amended the commit comment to reflect everything but, in the process of doing so, I accidentally merged my GitHub repository with my local one which resulted in a new commit with no files changed.  Is the extra commit a problem, or should I remove it?  I did make addition changes to three files to change "spear-like" to spearlike, but I can easily redo those if I have to rebase my repository to remove the merge commit.  I hope I'm using somewhat correct terminology to explain this... :-)

[Kevin Palm]

Looking back at my repository, it looks like when I amended the comment it made a whole new commit, so I have TWO extraneous commits.  Oy...

[Vince]

There are a few issues here, some more problematic than others. There are many on the list more versed in the finer points of git than I am, plus I’m not sure if we have official policy on merges vs rebases… (I think we generally prefer rebases, but I don’t know if it’s a hard and fast rule.)

But, apart from that, you’ve mixed basic modernize spelling (i.e. running se modernize-spelling) with other corrections. As I mentioned earlier, you want to follow the Step by Step guide exactly for this first book (at least); there should be a separate commit after modernize spelling, and any other changes should be made in its own commit (as in the next commit).

Also, we don’t generally mess with compound words other than what modernize-spelling changes. And we definitely don’t change to words that aren’t in Merriam-Webster. For example, “spearlike” isn’t in M-W, so that change should not be made.

So, if it were me, I would be tempted (after making at least one backup of your local repository) to just dropping the commits after e26d94f (Changes to preface…) and then rerunning modernize-spelling and committing, which would put you where you need to be. After confirming that all looks good, you can push it to GitHub, but you’ll have to do a force push since you’ve modified the history. You can then continue on from there.

[Kevin Palm]

Whew!  Thanks, Vince!  That fixed it!  One thing, though:  modernize-spelling changed "spear-like" to "spearlike" throughout, and neither "spearlike NOR "spear-like" are in Merriam-Webster, so I'm not sure what to do about it, if anything.

[Vince]

Are you sure? I don’t see how—it’s not in the word list now and as near as I can tell it never has been.

It was also a separate commit in your repository, not in the one for modernize-spelling.

[Vince]

It does not. I just made a copy of your (old) repository, dropped the commits, re-ran modernize-spelling, and it left spear-like untouched. (I am on se 2.5.0.)

However, there was already a “spearlike” in chapter-2-6, so that’s one that find-mismatched-dashes will find and should be changed to match the others. (Since there is already a mismatch, which means you have to change one of them anyway, it is IMO OK to change all of them to “spear like,” since neither spear-like nor spearlike is in M-W. But this is one of the rare instances where I will mess with a compound word.)

[Kevin Palm]

Done!  Onward to my next challenge!  :-)

[Kevin Palm]

My first foray into the wonderful world of lint:  The preface contains a reference to a book, which is "History of Lord Henry Goade: his own Times".  Lint is pinging it for a typecase violation, but "his own Times" is the way it is in the original and in the scan.  Do I ignore it, or should I change it with typecase?

[Vince]

Update it as an editorial change.

[Kevin Palm]

I updated it and ran lint again, and I got this error:  "Title not correctly titlecased. Hint: Non-English titles should have an xml:lang attribute as they have different titlecasing rules."

[Vince]

Then it doesn’t agree with what se titlecase would produce.

[Kevin Palm]

Interesting!  Gedit titlecase changed it to "History Of Lord Henry Goade: His Own Times" and se titlecase changed it to "History of Lord Henry Goade: His Own Times".  

[Kevin Palm]

Sorry, one more lint question:  Are punctuation changes Editorial?

[David at Standard Ebooks]

Most manuals of style don't recommend upper-casing prepositions and articles like "the", "a", etc and conjunctions like "and". Looks like Gedit is just doing a dumb "capitalise every word".

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[Vince]

Some editors have the native ability to titlecase a string; it’s sometimes easier to use the editor’s titlecase instead, and later when you run lint it will tell you if there are any differences that need to be corrected, i.e. instances where the editor produced a different result than se titlecase would.

[Vince]

Yes, but in general we don’t touch punctuation, unless there is a clearly egregious (probably printer) error. We’re not trying to re-edit the book.

[Kevin Palm]

I get that, I just had some lint errors that noted missing periods, etc., which are easily fixable but I wasn't sure if the resulting commit should be Editorial or not.  Is it better to err on the side of caution and make ANY such changes editorial?

[Vince]

You need to look at the scans and see if it’s a transcription error. If so, then it is not editorial; you’re just restoring it to what it should be. If it’s missing in the scans, then it would be editorial.

[Kevin Palm]

They were all transcription errors, so the only remaining lint errors are the expected ones at this stage.  On to proofreading and cover search!

[Kevin Palm]

There is a phrase in the preface that I'm curious about.  Should "except" in this instance be "accept"? It is "except" in the scans.

"a tall, powerful fellow of a good shape, if we except that his arms were too long and that his feet and hands were of an uncomely bigness."

[Robin Whittleton]

That reads OK to me. “To except” is to leave out.

On 4 Apr 2023, at 16:46, Kevin Palm <pipe...@gmail.com> wrote:

There is a phrase in the preface that I'm curious about.  Should "except" in this instance be "accept"? It is "except" in the scans.

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[Kevin Palm]

Cool, I just hadn't seen it used like that before, so it took me aback.  Pressing on...

[Kevin Palm]

In proofreading, I came across a sentence that modernize-spelling apparently changed from, "You say that he is so, and so and so." (this being used to list several points of a character) to "You say that he is so, and so-and-so." and I committed it as Editorial commit.  The scans show it without the dashes, which seems to be correct to me.  I made the change and committed it as non-Editorial since I was just changing it back to what it should have been, but I'm second guessing myself now.  Should I have made my correction Editorial since the original change due to modernize-spelling was Editorial?

[Vince]

No, that’s fine, restoring it to the way it was isn’t editorial, no matter how it got in that condition.

[Alex Cabal]

This is why it's important to use Git to see the differences in what
modernize-spelling did before you commit, as described in step 14.
modernize-spelling can often make mistakes like this, and it's easier to
catch before you commit, than during proofreading.

>>>> "History*of*Lord Henry Goade: His Own Times".

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[Kevin Palm]

Sorry again for asking more questions, but is it important to make paragraph breaks match the scans?  The scan I'm using is one that Alex recommended back in 2021 when someone else was attempting The Sea-Hawk: https://books.google.com/books?id=7rYNAQAAIAAJ

and there are a few instances so far where there are paragraph beaks in the scan that are not present in the text from Gutenberg.

[Vince]

Generally speaking, no, it just (probably) means PG was using a different edition. But it’s hard to say without seeing an example or two.

[Alex Cabal]

If you think more breaks makes it more readable, you can certainly match
it to the new scans. In general I think that's the case.

[Kevin Palm]

One example is in Part 1 Chapter 4: The Intervener:  

Gutenberg:
"Himself he stabled his horse; for of the two grooms he kept, one had by his leave set out yesterday to spend Christmas in Devon with his parents, the other had taken a chill and had been ordered to bed that very day by Sir Oliver, who was considerate with those that served him. In the dining room he found supper spread, and a great log fire blazed in the enormous cowled fireplace, diffusing a pleasant warmth through the vast room and flickering ruddily upon the trophies of weapons that adorned the walls, upon the tapestries and the portraits of dead Tressilians. Hearing his step, old Nicholas entered bearing a great candle-branch which he set upon the table."

Scan (Ignoring the page break, of course):

[Vince]

Right, so as I said, you don’t have to match, but as Alex said, you can. :) If you do make the change, since you’re matching the scans you’re using, it’s not editorial.

On Apr 6, 2023, at 3:46 PM, Kevin Palm <pipe...@gmail.com> wrote:

One example is in Part 1 Chapter 4: The Intervener:  

Gutenberg:
"Himself he stabled his horse; for of the two grooms he kept, one had by his leave set out yesterday to spend Christmas in Devon with his parents, the other had taken a chill and had been ordered to bed that very day by Sir Oliver, who was considerate with those that served him. In the dining room he found supper spread, and a great log fire blazed in the enormous cowled fireplace, diffusing a pleasant warmth through the vast room and flickering ruddily upon the trophies of weapons that adorned the walls, upon the tapestries and the portraits of dead Tressilians. Hearing his step, old Nicholas entered bearing a great candle-branch which he set upon the table."

Scan (Ignoring the page break, of course):

[Kevin Palm]

Gotcha.  I'll fix them as I encounter them,  for consistency's sake.

Something new:  I encountered

"Why God o' mercy! assume that I desired to take satisfaction for the affront he had put upon me...".

Shouldn't assume be capitalized in this case?  It's lowercase in the scan as well,  but it seems to be the start of a new sentence to me.

I also have a question about ellipses.  Sometimes they have three dots,  namely after phrases such as "I...I will tell her", but at the end of sentences, they have four dots.  The ellipses in the scan are consistently three dots. Should I leave them as is, or change them all to three dots, again for consistency's sake?

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[Vince]

No, see the Capitalization section in our Common Issues list.

As with the paragraph breaks, it’s not necessary, but you can. If it really is the end of a sentence, four is more technically correct (which is probably why the transcription has them), but if you want them to be consistent with the scans you can make them so. In general we don’t worry about them; they were (and often are today) used inconsistently.

[Kevin Palm]

Thanks, Vince!  I don't want to make unnecessary work for myself!  :-)

[Kevin Palm]

Nautical term:  The text/scans refer to a certain mast as a "maintopmast", while M-W only has an entry for "main-topmast".  Unhyphenated looks more correct to me, but we defer to M-W as the tie-breaker, correct?

[Weijia Cheng]

Merriam-Webster is our dictionary of record, so typically we defer to whatever M-W has whenever we manually modernize spellings. Though looking at Google Ngrams the usages on both are about the same in modern text, with maintopmast even edging out main-topmast somewhat, so it doesn't seem like a very necessary change to me.

[Kevin Palm]

Gotcha.  Like I said before, whatever saves me work!  ;-)  That's a pretty cool site!

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[Kevin Palm]

Skipping ahead, how would this be for a cover image (cropped, of course)?  I'm thinking it captures the moment when the Swallow is attacked by the Spanish galleon.  

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Willem_van_de_Velde_the_Younger_-_An_Action_off_the_Barbary_Coast_with_Galleys_and_English_Ships_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg

[Kevin Palm]

Or this one.  This was used as a beginning illustration of The Sea Hawk in the "Complete Works of Rafael Sabatini" from Delphi Classics :

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A_Castro,_Lorenzo_-_A_Sea_Fight_with_Barbary_Corsairs_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg

[Vince Rice]

Either of those might work, but keep in mind that the title box covers the lower part of the picture. I’ve found that I need to do a mock-up before I can tell how something will work.

You will also need PD proof of whichever one you pick; see section 10.3 of the manual.

On Apr 8, 2023, at 10:48 AM, Kevin Palm <pipe...@gmail.com> wrote:

Or this one.  This was used as a beginning illustration of The Sea Hawk in the "Complete Works of Rafael Sabatini" from Delphi Classics :

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A_Castro,_Lorenzo_-_A_Sea_Fight_with_Barbary_Corsairs_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg

[Weijia Cheng]

Luckily the first painting is CC0 in the Yale Center for British Art, which is cleared in the upcoming SEMOS edition.

[Kevin Palm]

Stupid question, but do you follow the build-images procedure and just not commit it to do the mockup?

[David at Standard Ebooks]

That's my practice. Do the mock-up then discard changes to the affected files.

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[Vince]

Well, I don’t, but I’m on a Mac so I don’t have to. :) I just put the cover.jpg in the /images directory, and a Quick Look of the cover.svg file will then show what the cover would look like with the title box, and if I need it for here I just take a screen shot of that Quick Look.

[David at Standard Ebooks]

Gosh, I learn something new every day! Thanks, Vince!

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[Kevin Palm]

During my proofread I've come across this sentence:

Coming one morning into the reeking bagnio
at Algiers, some six months after he had been raised to his captaincy,
he found there a score of countrymen of his own, and he gave orders
that their letters should instantly be struck off and their liberty
restored them.

Considering that a "bagnio" is a prison for slaves, I'm thinking that "letters" should actually be "fetters", but the scans and Gutenberg editions I've found say "letters", which makes no sense to me given the context.  A 1924 edition on archive.org DOES say "fetters".

https://archive.org/details/seahawk00saba/page/n4/mode/1up

What say you?

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[Alex Cabal]

Which of the images did you pick for the cover?

On 4/8/23 5:38 PM, Kevin Palm wrote:
> Stupid question, but do you follow the build-images procedure and just
> not commit it to do the mockup?
>
> On Saturday, April 8, 2023 at 1:11:41 PM UTC-4 Vince Rice wrote:
>
> Either of those might work, but keep in mind that the title box
> covers the lower part of the picture. I’ve found that I need to do a
> mock-up before I can tell how something will work.
>
> You will also need PD proof of whichever one you pick; see section
> 10.3 of the manual.
>
>> On Apr 8, 2023, at 10:48 AM, Kevin Palm <pipe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Or this one.  This was used as a beginning illustration of The
>> Sea Hawk in the "Complete Works of Rafael Sabatini" from Delphi
>> Classics :
>>

>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A_Castro,_Lorenzo_-_A_Sea_Fight_with_Barbary_Corsairs_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A_Castro,_Lorenzo_-_A_Sea_Fight_with_Barbary_Corsairs_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg>

>>
>> <A_Castro,_Lorenzo_-_A_Sea_Fight_with_Barbary_Corsairs_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, April 8, 2023 at 11:20:29 AM UTC-4 Kevin Palm wrote:
>>
>> Skipping ahead, how would this be for a cover image (cropped,
>> of course)?  I'm thinking it captures the moment when the
>> Swallow is attacked by the Spanish galleon.
>>

>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Willem_van_de_Velde_the_Younger_-_An_Action_off_the_Barbary_Coast_with_Galleys_and_English_Ships_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Willem_van_de_Velde_the_Younger_-_An_Action_off_the_Barbary_Coast_with_Galleys_and_English_Ships_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg>
>>
>> Willem_van_de_Velde_the_Younger_-_An_Action_off_the_Barbary_Coast_with_Galleys_and_English_Ships_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg
>>
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[Kevin Palm]

I didn't pick either one.   The title block obscures too much of either one to be usable, so I'm on the hunt once more.

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[Alex Cabal]

OK. There's no shortage of nautical themed paintings. Note that you can
zoom and crop too so what might appear too blocked off by the title box
at full scale, might work as a zoomed crop.

On 4/8/23 10:36 PM, Kevin Palm wrote:
> I didn't pick either one.   The title block obscures too much of either
> one to be usable, so I'm on the hunt once more.
>
> On Sat, Apr 8, 2023, 11:24 PM Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org
> <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>> wrote:
>
> Which of the images did you pick for the cover?
>
> On 4/8/23 5:38 PM, Kevin Palm wrote:
> > Stupid question, but do you follow the build-images procedure and
> just
> > not commit it to do the mockup?
> >
> > On Saturday, April 8, 2023 at 1:11:41 PM UTC-4 Vince Rice wrote:
> >
> >     Either of those might work, but keep in mind that the title box
> >     covers the lower part of the picture. I’ve found that I need
> to do a
> >     mock-up before I can tell how something will work.
> >
> >     You will also need PD proof of whichever one you pick; see
> section
> >     10.3 of the manual.
> >
> >>     On Apr 8, 2023, at 10:48 AM, Kevin Palm <pipe...@gmail.com

> <mailto:pipe...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >>     Or this one.  This was used as a beginning illustration of The
> >>     Sea Hawk in the "Complete Works of Rafael Sabatini" from Delphi
> >>     Classics :
> >>
> >>

> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A_Castro,_Lorenzo_-_A_Sea_Fight_with_Barbary_Corsairs_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A_Castro,_Lorenzo_-_A_Sea_Fight_with_Barbary_Corsairs_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A_Castro,_Lorenzo_-_A_Sea_Fight_with_Barbary_Corsairs_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A_Castro,_Lorenzo_-_A_Sea_Fight_with_Barbary_Corsairs_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg>>

> >>
> >>
>  <A_Castro,_Lorenzo_-_A_Sea_Fight_with_Barbary_Corsairs_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg>
> >>
> >>
> >>     On Saturday, April 8, 2023 at 11:20:29 AM UTC-4 Kevin Palm
> wrote:
> >>
> >>         Skipping ahead, how would this be for a cover image
> (cropped,
> >>         of course)?  I'm thinking it captures the moment when the
> >>         Swallow is attacked by the Spanish galleon.
> >>
> >>

> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Willem_van_de_Velde_the_Younger_-_An_Action_off_the_Barbary_Coast_with_Galleys_and_English_Ships_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Willem_van_de_Velde_the_Younger_-_An_Action_off_the_Barbary_Coast_with_Galleys_and_English_Ships_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Willem_van_de_Velde_the_Younger_-_An_Action_off_the_Barbary_Coast_with_Galleys_and_English_Ships_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Willem_van_de_Velde_the_Younger_-_An_Action_off_the_Barbary_Coast_with_Galleys_and_English_Ships_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg>>

> >>
> >>
>  Willem_van_de_Velde_the_Younger_-_An_Action_off_the_Barbary_Coast_with_Galleys_and_English_Ships_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg
> >>
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[Vince]

Yes, I would say that should definitely be fetters. Editorial, obviously.

[Kevin Palm]

I did find another PD painting that I thought might work, "Kalme Zee" by Hendrick Willem Mesdag:

https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/nl/collectie/SK-A-1891

Original:

And cover mockup:

[Kevin Palm]

Another language question:  Throughout the book there is a title, "Basha of Algiers," in which "Basha" is Turkish and the rest is English.  Do I italicize and add language tags to just the "Basha" portion of the title, the whole title, neither?

[Vince Rice]

No, we don’t tag titles.

> On Apr 9, 2023, at 9:30 AM, Kevin Palm <pipe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Another language question: Throughout the book there is a title, "Basha of Algiers," in which "Basha" is Turkish and the rest is English. Do I italicize and add language tags to just the "Basha" portion of the title, the whole title, neither?

[Kevin Palm]

I inadvertently sent a couple of questions to Vince directly instead of the list (I really need to pay more attention when I post via email!).  I'm forwarding my questions and Vince's answers to the list for completeness' sake. 

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Kevin <pipe...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Apr 9, 2023, 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [standardebooks] [First Project] The Sea-Hawk, by Rafael Sabatini
To: Vince Rice <vr_se...@letterboxes.org>

Roger.  There's also a place mentioned, the "Bashalik of Algiers," also
used separately as just "Bashalik."  Same, or should it be tagged as
it's not a title?

[Kevin Palm]

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Vince Rice <vr_se...@letterboxes.org>
Date: Sun, Apr 9, 2023, 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [standardebooks] [First Project] The Sea-Hawk, by Rafael Sabatini

To: <pipe...@gmail.com>

Proper names aren’t tagged, see SEMoS 8.2.9.2.

> On Apr 9, 2023, at 9:57 AM, Kevin <pipe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Roger.  There's also a place mentioned, the "Bashalik of Algiers," also used separately as just "Bashalik."  Same, or should it be tagged as it's not a title?

[Kevin Palm]

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Kevin Palm <pipe...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Apr 9, 2023, 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: [standardebooks] [First Project] The Sea-Hawk, by Rafael Sabatini

To: Vince Rice <vr_se...@letterboxes.org>

So, I'm caught between Sections 8.2.9.1 and 8.2.9.2 of the SEMoS on something.  Earlier today, I came across the word "sôk", which is not in M-W and, in context, seems to be a Turkish word for slave auction.

"In the sôk at Algiers you might fetch two hundred philips."

I italicized and added a language tag to the word since it's not a proper name.

Later on today, I encountered "sôk-el-Abeed," which sounds like a proper name to me. 

"My lord," he cried, "there will be lads and maidens there should fetch fat prices in the sôk-el-Abeed."  

Should I leave it alone, like 8.2.9.2 seems to indicate? Or should I italicize/language tag it like the separate "sôk" above?  Or should I leave it alone AND untag/unitalicize the separate "sôk"?  I've done a few commits since the separate "sôk", so I'd hate to have to undo it unless I have to!

[Kevin Palm]

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Vince <vr_se...@letterboxes.org>
Date: Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 12:10 AM
Subject: Re: [standardebooks] [First Project] The Sea-Hawk, by Rafael Sabatini

To: Kevin Palm <pipe...@gmail.com>

You’re not caught. One is a generic word, one is (appears to be) a proper noun. One rule applies to the first, the other to the second. Both should be followed.

Let’s keep questions on the list, please.

[Kevin Palm]

New day, new question. :-)   In the paragraph,

“Thou wilt not? Now, by the Head of Allah! dost dare to stand before my face and defy me, thy Lord? I’ll have thee whipped, Fenzileh. I have been too tender of thee these many years⁠—so tender that thou hast forgot the rods that await the disobedient wife. Speak then ere thy flesh is bruised or speak thereafter, at thy pleasure.”

I can't help thinking that "dost" should be capitalized and begin a new sentence.  The scans I've read all have it lowercase as shown above.  Should I leave it alone?

[B Keith]

Try rephrasing it:

Now,  by George, give me my whiskey.

:-)

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[Kevin Palm]

That makes perfect sense, but I need to get my manager's take before I do anything!  :-) 

And now I'm thirsty...  ;-)

[Kevin Palm]

Another similar phrase: "Had it so ended, would the blame of it have fallen upon Othmani? Nay, by Allah! but upon me."

[Brian]

It used to be common in written dialogue to have an exclamation point
after an interjection instead of a comma, but still have the next word
lowercase to show that the interjection was not a separate sentence.
A random example from Charles Dickens (since that's what's in front of
me):

[Kevin Palm]

Ah!  So do we keep it that way?

[Alex Cabal]

Yes, leave it that way. See
https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-working-on-public-domain-ebooks

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[Alex Cabal]

FYI, NC Wyeth illustrated Treasure Island with many action-forward
nautical illustrations. You can look some of those up to see if any
would work for you. Just make sure not to use the one we used for our
actual Treasure Island ebook.

On 4/9/23 8:21 AM, Kevin Palm wrote:
> I did find another PD painting that I thought might work, "Kalme Zee" by
> Hendrick Willem Mesdag:
>
> https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/nl/collectie/SK-A-1891
>
> Original:
>

> SK-A-1891.jpg
>
> And cover mockup:

>
> mockup1.jpg
>
>
> On Sunday, April 9, 2023 at 12:21:25 AM UTC-4 Vince wrote:
>
> Yes, I would say that should definitely be fetters. Editorial,
> obviously.
>
>
>> On Apr 8, 2023, at 10:23 PM, Kevin Palm <pipe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> During my proofread I've come across this sentence:
>>
>> Coming one morning into the reeking bagnio
>> at Algiers, some six months after he had been raised to his captaincy,
>> he found there a score of countrymen of his own, and he gave orders
>> that their letters should instantly be struck off and their liberty
>> restored them.
>>
>> Considering that a "bagnio" is a prison for slaves, I'm thinking
>> that "letters" should actually be "fetters", but the scans and
>> Gutenberg editions I've found say "letters", which makes no sense
>> to me given the context.  A 1924 edition on archive.org

>> <http://archive.org/> DOES say "fetters".

>>
>> https://archive.org/details/seahawk00saba/page/n4/mode/1up
>> <https://archive.org/details/seahawk00saba/page/n4/mode/1up>
>>
>> What say you?
>

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[Vince]

The answer hasn’t changed. :)

"Why God o' mercy! assume that I desired to take satisfaction for the affront he had put upon me...".

Shouldn't assume be capitalized in this case?  It's lowercase in the scan as well,  but it seems to be the start of a new sentence to me.

No, see the Capitalization section in our Common Issues list.

[Kevin Palm]

Thanks, Vince!  Guess I'm getting senile...  😁

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[Kevin Palm]

Thanks, Alex!  I'll have a look!

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[Kevin Palm]

So, I'm getting wrapped around the axle on language tags, of which this seems to have a TON.  If I discover I've made a mistake in adding a language tag on a MUCH earlier commit, is it acceptable to correct it by fixing it and adding a new commit, or do I have to go back and undo it?

[Vince Rice]

You can revert it in a new commit.

[Kevin Palm]

Thanks, Vince!  that's a relief!

[Kevin Palm]

So,  hyphenation.  There are a few hyphenated words that modernize-spelling didn't take care of that I believe I've dealt with correctly,  but one came up in my proofread that I feel is above my pay grade.  I encountered the term "sea-hawk" within the text itself,  and M-W has it as "sea hawk".  Removing the hyphen obviously will change the title of the book,  so I'm asking for guidance.   I've seen the title both hyphenated and unhyphenated on various editions.   Looking back through the group's messages, I saw that this same question was asked by a previous producer of this book, but it was never answered as far as I can tell. 

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[Vince]

In general, we don't mess with compound words other than what modernize spelling corrects. There are too many possibilities, too many confusions, etc.

In this case, however, there is a difference in dashes, which has to be resolved. And if it’s going to be resolved, it might as well be to the right thing.

The Smithsonian agrees that there is no one-word seahawk, regardless of what Seattle thinks. So, no one-word, no dash: sea hawk.

That does mean a change to the book title. The easiest way to do that is to run create-draft again into a different directory, then copy the various files over. You’ll have to copy the information that you’ve updated in colophon, content, imprint into the new files.

On Apr 13, 2023, at 6:37 AM, Kevin Palm <pipe...@gmail.com> wrote:



[Kevin Palm]

Showing my Git inexperience here, but will that create another repository?  Will my original commits be lost if I do that?

[Kevin Palm]

And should I undo the compound words I've already changed?

[B Keith]

You can ignore the actual new git repo aspect. If you run the new create-draft as if it was an entirely new project you can just mine that  folder for the correct files. Just cut and paste into the existing repo...

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[Kevin Palm]

Roger!

[Kevin Palm]

So, when I run "se create-draft --author "Rafael Sabatini" --title "The Sea Hawk" --pg-id 3294" (without the dash), I get the error " Error  Directory already exists: /home/kevin/rafael-sabatini_the-sea-hawk."  I thought the whole purpose of doing a new draft was to get the files with "The Sea Hawk" in them and copy them over to my existing repository.  Do I need to temporarily change the name of my current repository and rerun create-draft?  Sorry for so many stupid questions, but I feel like I've done too much work on this so far to blow it away because of a stupid mistake...

[Alex Cabal]

Just cd to /tmp or something to create the new draft. You can throw away
the new draft folder once you copy the new images in to your real folder.

>> <https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/14-fun-facts-about-sea-hawks-180949528/> agrees that there is no one-word seahawk, regardless of what Seattle thinks. So, no one-word, no dash: sea hawk.

>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/a3181fbf-114d-4776-9c08-26fba9d3db79n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/a3181fbf-114d-4776-9c08-26fba9d3db79n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

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[Kevin Palm]

Thanks, Alex!  That worked!

[Kevin Palm]

Back to my previous question:  Should I rehypenenate the compound words that I previously dehyphenated?  They look awkward to me the original way,  but if it's our policy to leave them be,  I'll put them back!

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[Vince]

If you confirmed all of them, you can leave them. The reviewer will look at all of your editorial commits anyway, so they can identify if any need to be reverted.

[Kevin Palm]

Great!  Thanks!

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[Kevin Palm]

If I have another idea for a cover, should I post it on this thread or do a separate one so it doesn't get lost in the weeds?

[Vince]

Keep everything on one thread, please. There are no weeds to get lost in. :)

[Kevin Palm]

Roger!

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[Kevin Palm]

Here's my latest cover proposal.  It's a painting by Harold Matthews Brett that was used as an illustration in the scans of a 1924 version I'm using at 

https://books.google.com/books?id=7rYNAQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

and was the cover of the 1924 Grosset & Dunlap movie edition hardcover.

http://auctions.emovieposter.com/Bidding.taf?_function=detail&Auction_uid1=5161943

The only digital copy I could find was a picture of the actual oil painting at an auction site:

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/148775954_harold-matthews-brett-massachusettsnew-york-1880-1955-the-sea-hawk-oil-on

But I was able to download a copy:



I then zoomed and cropped it in GIMP to make a cover mockup:



Since there's suprisingly (at least to me) little actual sea battles in the book, I thought this captures the central theme of Sir Oliver and his love of (and tribulations with) Rosamund.  What do y'all think?

[Kevin Palm]

I also tried brightening it a bit for an alternate mockup