[Next project] In Darkest London by Ada Elizabeth Chesterton

[Lukas Bystricky]

I'd like to produce this as my next project. 

Scans

Transcription

Repo

In the scans the author is given as "Mrs. Cecil Chesterton", but I'm guessing we should credit Ada Elizabeth Chesterton? 

[Alex Cabal]

OK, Weijia will manage this with Robin reviewing.

Yes, you can use her full name in the metadata.

On 11/3/25 2:13 PM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
> I'd like to produce this as my next project.
>

> Scans <https://archive.org/details/indarkestlondon0000unse/page/n9/mode/1up>
> Transcription <https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/In_Darkest_London>
> Repo <https://github.com/lukasbystricky/ada-elizabeths-chesterton_in-
> darkest-london>

>
> In the scans the author is given as "Mrs. Cecil Chesterton", but I'm

> guessing we should credit Ada Elizabeth Chesterton <https://
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Elizabeth_Chesterton>?
>
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[Weijia Cheng]

Ok, noted.

[Lukas Bystricky]

How does this look for the cover? 

It's in the DB here. 

[Weijia Cheng]

Sure, looks good.

[Lukas Bystricky]

Ok Robin, this ready for review.

A few tables that I tried my best to style. It's a Wikisource transcription so there were more transcription errors than usual; also a rather poor printing, so more printer errors than usual. 

One additional thing that came up is that one of the tables has a two-tiered header. The recommended approach here is to use a combination of <col> and <colgroup>, but apparently epubcheck doesn't like <col>, at least immediately after <table>. Switching the <col> to <colgroup> seems to satisfy epubcheck and give visually similar results. Not sure if that's the correct approach however. (Maybe this is a question for Alex/Vince.)

[Robin Whittleton]

Filed a few issues at https://github.com/lukasbystricky/ada-elizabeths-chesterton_in-darkest-london/issues/1. I don’t think we need to style the table via colgroup, so I suggest we rip those out. I’ve supplied a stylesheet that should work just as well without.

-Robn

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[Robin Whittleton]

Over to you Alex. (Note: the repo name has “elizabeths”, but the actual code is the correct “elizabeth”).

-Robin

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/77C45E7B-85CC-42B6-B44A-00E31ED4E57C%40reala.net.

[Alex Cabal]

Looks good Lukas, I've released it. Thanks!

On 11/9/25 1:19 AM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
> Ok Robin, this ready for review.
>
> A few tables that I tried my best to style. It's a Wikisource
> transcription so there were more transcription errors than usual; also a
> rather poor printing, so more printer errors than usual.
>
> One additional thing that came up is that one of the tables has a two-

> tiered header. The recommended approach here <https://www.w3.org/WAI/
> tutorials/tables/irregular/> is to use a combination of <col> and

> <colgroup>, but apparently epubcheck doesn't like <col>, at least
> immediately after <table>. Switching the <col> to <colgroup> seems to
> satisfy epubcheck and give visually similar results. Not sure if that's
> the correct approach however. (Maybe this is a question for Alex/Vince.)
>
> On Saturday, November 8, 2025 at 6:46:29 PM UTC+1 weij...@bu.edu wrote:
>
> Sure, looks good.
>
> On Saturday, November 8, 2025 at 9:28:50 AM UTC-5
> lukasby...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> How does this look for the cover?
>

> Screenshot 2025-11-08 at 3.09.59 PM.png
>

> It's in the DB here <https://standardebooks.org/artworks/
> katherine-s-dreier/moonlight-on-the-thames-london>.

>
> On Tuesday, November 4, 2025 at 6:38:09 PM UTC+1 weij...@bu.edu
> wrote:
>
> Ok, noted.
>
> On Tuesday, November 4, 2025 at 11:52:10 AM UTC-5 Alex Cabal
> wrote:
>
> OK, Weijia will manage this with Robin reviewing.
>
> Yes, you can use her full name in the metadata.
>
> On 11/3/25 2:13 PM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
> > I'd like to produce this as my next project.
> >
> > Scans <https://archive.org/details/

> indarkestlondon0000unse/page/n9/mode/1up <https://
> archive.org/details/indarkestlondon0000unse/page/n9/
> mode/1up>>
> > Transcription <https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/
> In_Darkest_London <https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/
> In_Darkest_London>>
> > Repo <https://github.com/lukasbystricky/ada-
> elizabeths-chesterton_in- <https://github.com/
> lukasbystricky/ada-elizabeths-chesterton_in->

> > darkest-london>
> >
> > In the scans the author is given as "Mrs. Cecil
> Chesterton", but I'm
> > guessing we should credit Ada Elizabeth Chesterton
> <https://
> > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Elizabeth_Chesterton

> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Elizabeth_Chesterton>>?

> >
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[Lukas Bystricky]

Alex, I don't know if you saw my above comment about the <col> and <colgroup>, but it seems like the example from the Web Accessibility Initiative guide for creating tiered headers does not satisfy epubcheck. The workaround is simple enough, just replace <col> with <colgroup>, this seems to have been done elsewhere in the corpus too. If that's what we want done, is it worthwhile mentioning that in the manual? It's a bit of a niche case, but it's unexpected (to me at least) that <col> doesn't work.

[Alex Cabal]

Are you sure? se build --check-only succeeds. It uses the latest version
of epubcheck, 5.3.0

On 11/11/25 2:38 PM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
> Alex, I don't know if you saw my above comment about the <col> and
> <colgroup>, but it seems like the example from the Web Accessibility

> Initiative guide for creating tiered headers <https://www.w3.org/WAI/
> tutorials/tables/irregular/> does not satisfy epubcheck. The workaround

> is simple enough, just replace <col> with <colgroup>, this seems to have

> been done elsewhere in the corpus <https://github.com/search?
> q=owner%3Astandardebooks+path%3Asrc%2Fepub%2Ftext%2F*+
> %3Ccolgroup&type=code> too. If that's what we want done, is it

> worthwhile mentioning that in the manual? It's a bit of a niche case,
> but it's unexpected (to me at least) that <col> doesn't work.
>
> On Tuesday, November 11, 2025 at 8:10:53 PM UTC+1 Alex Cabal wrote:
>
> Looks good Lukas, I've released it. Thanks!
>
> On 11/9/25 1:19 AM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
> > Ok Robin, this ready for review.
> >
> > A few tables that I tried my best to style. It's a Wikisource
> > transcription so there were more transcription errors than usual;
> also a
> > rather poor printing, so more printer errors than usual.
> >
> > One additional thing that came up is that one of the tables has a
> two-
> > tiered header. The recommended approach here <https://www.w3.org/

> WAI/ <https://www.w3.org/WAI/>

> > > Scans <https://archive.org/details/ <https://archive.org/details/>
> > indarkestlondon0000unse/page/n9/mode/1up <https://
> > archive.org/details/indarkestlondon0000unse/page/n9/ <http://
> archive.org/details/indarkestlondon0000unse/page/n9/>
> > mode/1up>>
> > > Transcription <https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/ <https://
> en.wikisource.org/wiki/>
> > In_Darkest_London <https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/ <https://
> en.wikisource.org/wiki/>
> > In_Darkest_London>>
> > > Repo <https://github.com/lukasbystricky/ada- <https://
> github.com/lukasbystricky/ada->
> > elizabeths-chesterton_in- <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>

> > lukasbystricky/ada-elizabeths-chesterton_in->
> > > darkest-london>
> > >
> > > In the scans the author is given as "Mrs. Cecil
> > Chesterton", but I'm
> > > guessing we should credit Ada Elizabeth Chesterton
> > <https://
> > > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Elizabeth_Chesterton <http://
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Elizabeth_Chesterton>

> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Elizabeth_Chesterton <http://

> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Elizabeth_Chesterton>>>?
> > >
> > > --
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> > msgid/>
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> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>
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[Lukas Bystricky]

I've tried to insert this table (from the Web Accessibility Initiative guide, but closing the <col> tag as we require):

<table>

<col/>

<colgroup span="2"/>

<colgroup span="2"/>

<tr>

<td rowspan="2"/>

<th colspan="2" scope="colgroup">Mars</th>

<th colspan="2" scope="colgroup">Venus</th>

</tr>

<tr>

<th scope="col">Produced</th>

<th scope="col">Sold</th>

<th scope="col">Produced</th>

<th scope="col">Sold</th>

</tr>

</table>

Running se build --check-only gives,

 Source    ┃ Code    ┃ File                    ┃ Message                                                                                                                                                ┃

┡━━━━━━━━━━━╇━━━━━━━━━╇━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━╇━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━┩

│ epubcheck │ RSC-005 │ chapter-13.xhtml(28:11) │ Error while parsing file: element "col" not allowed here; expected the element end-tag or element "caption", "colgroup", "script", "tbody",            │

│           │         │                         │ "template", "tfoot", "thead" or "tr" 

If I change the empty <col/> to <colgroup/> it passes. I have the latest toolset, and I've verified that I'm using epubcheck v5.3.0. 

[Vince]

Forgive my interjection and ignorance, but what is the purpose of colgroup here? I read the spec, and the guide, earlier today, and it still doesn’t make any sense to me. The table is rendered identically with or without it. The formatting can be (and in this case was) accomplished without it. So what’s it for? I see no reason for its existence.

[Lukas Bystricky]

That's a good question. I'm not 100% sure, but since it's from the WAI I would guess it has something to with screen readers. I haven't tested this though. 

[Alex Cabal]

I think epubcheck is correct, MDN also states that <col> is not a
permitted child of <table>:
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/Elements/table#technical_summary

It's likely that the WAI documentation is merely out of date with the
latest HTML5 standard.

> > Initiative guide for creating tiered headers <https://www.w3.org/
> WAI/ <https://www.w3.org/WAI/>

> > tutorials/tables/irregular/> does not satisfy epubcheck. The
> workaround
> > is simple enough, just replace <col> with <colgroup>, this seems
> to have
> > been done elsewhere in the corpus <https://github.com/search

> <https://github.com/search>?

> > q=owner%3Astandardebooks+path%3Asrc%2Fepub%2Ftext%2F*+
> > %3Ccolgroup&type=code> too. If that's what we want done, is it
> > worthwhile mentioning that in the manual? It's a bit of a niche
> case,
> > but it's unexpected (to me at least) that <col> doesn't work.
> >
> > On Tuesday, November 11, 2025 at 8:10:53 PM UTC+1 Alex Cabal wrote:
> >
> > Looks good Lukas, I've released it. Thanks!
> >
> > On 11/9/25 1:19 AM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
> > > Ok Robin, this ready for review.
> > >
> > > A few tables that I tried my best to style. It's a Wikisource
> > > transcription so there were more transcription errors than usual;
> > also a
> > > rather poor printing, so more printer errors than usual.
> > >
> > > One additional thing that came up is that one of the tables has a
> > two-
> > > tiered header. The recommended approach here <https://

> www.w3.org/ <https://www.w3.org/>
> > WAI/ <https://www.w3.org/WAI/ <https://www.w3.org/WAI/>>

> > > tutorials/tables/irregular/> is to use a combination of <col> and
> > > <colgroup>, but apparently epubcheck doesn't like <col>, at least
> > > immediately after <table>. Switching the <col> to <colgroup>
> > seems to
> > > satisfy epubcheck and give visually similar results. Not sure if
> > that's
> > > the correct approach however. (Maybe this is a question for Alex/
> > Vince.)
> > >
> > > On Saturday, November 8, 2025 at 6:46:29 PM UTC+1 weij...@bu.edu
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Sure, looks good.
> > >
> > > On Saturday, November 8, 2025 at 9:28:50 AM UTC-5
> > > lukasby...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > How does this look for the cover?
> > >
> > > Screenshot 2025-11-08 at 3.09.59 PM.png
> > >
> > > It's in the DB here <https://standardebooks.org/artworks/
> <https://standardebooks.org/artworks/>

> > <https://standardebooks.org/artworks/ <https://

> standardebooks.org/artworks/>>
> > > katherine-s-dreier/moonlight-on-the-thames-london>.
> > >
> > > On Tuesday, November 4, 2025 at 6:38:09 PM UTC+1 weij...@bu.edu
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Ok, noted.
> > >
> > > On Tuesday, November 4, 2025 at 11:52:10 AM UTC-5 Alex Cabal
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > OK, Weijia will manage this with Robin reviewing.
> > >
> > > Yes, you can use her full name in the metadata.
> > >
> > > On 11/3/25 2:13 PM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
> > > > I'd like to produce this as my next project.
> > > >
> > > > Scans <https://archive.org/details/ <https://archive.org/

> details/> <https://archive.org/details/ <https://archive.org/details/>>

> > > indarkestlondon0000unse/page/n9/mode/1up <https://
> > > archive.org/details/indarkestlondon0000unse/page/n9/ <http://

> archive.org/details/indarkestlondon0000unse/page/n9/> <http://

> > archive.org/details/indarkestlondon0000unse/page/n9/ <http://
> archive.org/details/indarkestlondon0000unse/page/n9/>>
> > > mode/1up>>
> > > > Transcription <https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/ <https://

> en.wikisource.org/wiki/> <https://
> > en.wikisource.org/wiki/ <http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/>>

> > > In_Darkest_London <https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/ <https://

> en.wikisource.org/wiki/> <https://
> > en.wikisource.org/wiki/ <http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/>>

> > > In_Darkest_London>>
> > > > Repo <https://github.com/lukasbystricky/ada- <https://

> github.com/lukasbystricky/ada-> <https://
> > github.com/lukasbystricky/ada- <http://github.com/lukasbystricky/

> ada->>
> > > elizabeths-chesterton_in- <https://github.com/ <https://

> github.com/> <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>>

> > > lukasbystricky/ada-elizabeths-chesterton_in->
> > > > darkest-london>
> > > >
> > > > In the scans the author is given as "Mrs. Cecil
> > > Chesterton", but I'm
> > > > guessing we should credit Ada Elizabeth Chesterton
> > > <https://
> > > > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Elizabeth_Chesterton <http://

> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Elizabeth_Chesterton> <http://

> > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Elizabeth_Chesterton <http://
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Elizabeth_Chesterton>>
> > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Elizabeth_Chesterton <http://

> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Elizabeth_Chesterton> <http://
> > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Elizabeth_Chesterton <http://

> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Elizabeth_Chesterton>>>>?
> > > >
> > > > --
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[Lukas Bystricky]

Ok, that's not unexpected and like I said elsewhere in the corpus we use colgroup instead of col so I guess at least some producers were aware of that. Up to you if you think this is worth including in the manual; it's obviously quite niche.