[New project] Daniel Deronda by George Eliot

[David Grigg]

I'm proposing to tackle this as my next SE project.

[Alex Cabal]

Sure!

On 2/10/21 8:44 PM, David Grigg wrote:
> I'm proposing to tackle this as my next SE project.
>

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[David Grigg]

One thing which was a pain in doing Middlemarch and is now a pain in Daniel Deronda is that each and every chapter has an epigraph, and there are lots of chapters! Never mind! 

But the epigraphs vary from being straight prose, to verse, and also to quotes from drama, see below.

Do I treat this exactly as though it were drama within a play, using a table? Even though it's within an epigraph?

[David Grigg]

Ignore the above, I have applied all the drama rules and it looks fine to my eye, though it's a pity the right-hand cell width is a bit narrow.

[David Grigg]

I'm thinking of this for the cover of Daniel Deronda. I guess it's just another generic portrait, but it is of the right historical period (1860s), and fits the book's description fairly well (handsome, striking, bearded, part-Jewish, intense gaze). It's Dr. David Walker as painted by Stephen Pearce.

PD proof: it's in the National Portrait Gallery of London, and appears on page 239 of Volume 2 of their catalog:

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_National_Portrait_Gallery/hO7kAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=inauthor:%22National+Portrait+Gallery+(Great+Britain)%22&pg=PA239&printsec=frontcover 

What do you think?

[Alex Cabal]

Looks good, thanks!

On 2/23/21 9:38 PM, David Grigg wrote:
> I'm thinking of this for the cover of Daniel Deronda. I guess it's just
> another generic portrait, but it is of the right historical period
> (1860s), and fits the book's description fairly well (handsome,
> striking, bearded, part-Jewish, intense gaze). It's Dr. David Walker as
> painted by Stephen Pearce.
>

> proposed cover.jpg
>
> PD proof: it's in the National Portrait Gallery of London, and appears
> on page 239 of Volume 2 of their catalog:
>
> https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_National_Portrait_Gallery/hO7kAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=inauthor:%22National+Portrait+Gallery+(Great+Britain)%22&pg=PA239&printsec=frontcover
>
>
> What do you think?
> On Wednesday, 17 February 2021 at 14:42:53 UTC+11 David Grigg wrote:
>
> Ignore the above, I have applied all the drama rules and it looks
> fine to my eye, though it's a pity the right-hand cell width is a
> bit narrow.
>

> deronda epigraph 2.jpg
>
> On Wednesday, 17 February 2021 at 14:23:14 UTC+11 David Grigg wrote:
>

> One thing which was a pain in doing /Middlemarch/ and is now a
> pain in /Daniel Deronda/ is that each and every chapter has an

> epigraph, and there are lots of chapters! Never mind!
>
> But the epigraphs vary from being straight prose, to verse, and
> also to quotes from drama, see below.
>

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/97bbab48-85a5-44b5-b3fb-743b5ad9e392n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/97bbab48-85a5-44b5-b3fb-743b5ad9e392n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[David Grigg]

It's often surprising to me how much research one has to do to get things right in our productions: I've learned a good deal about the 16th C Italian poet Tarquato Tasso and the various operas, poems and books written about his life and works in order to distinguish between them when tagging semantics in Daniel Deronda.

Here's another question, though. In chapter 25, Grancourt tells his assistant to "leave my P. P. C. at the Mallingers’." PPC, it turns out, is an abbreviation for the French phrase pour prendre congé (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/PPC). I'm assuming that I treat this as an initialism and remove the periods and spaces, but do I also tag it xml:lang="fr" and italicise it? It's not italicised in the page scans.

[Vince]

We don’t remove periods from initialisms any more (8.10.2). You wouldn’t italicize it because it’s in M-W. Oh, wait, I see; the abbreviation is in M-W, but the actual phrase isn’t.

That’s an interesting conundrum. I’ve asked about tagging foreign abbreviations (with language tags) before, and the answer was yes. But it wasn’t an initialism. My instinct says yes, but ultimately Alex will have to weigh in.

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[David Grigg]

I was thinking I should remove the periods and spaces because that’s how Merriam Webster have it, rather like RSVP (which of course is also an abbreviation, of the French respondez si vous plait). Really, though, PPC is so obscure, to me at least, that it almost merits a footnote giving the full phrase and a translation. Basically, Grancourt is just saying “give my apologies to the Mallingers”, but would that be clear to a modern reader?

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[Vince]

I don’t believe we make exceptions (see Bruce’s ADT from a couple of weeks ago). Well, except for the exceptions in the manual (TV, etc.)

I hear you, and I wouldn’t disagree. But I’m constantly amazed at the foreign phrases I’ve never heard of that are apparently “common” enough to be in M-W.

[David Grigg]

Here's another puzzle in Deronda:

It's pretty clear to me that Grandcourt doesn't mean that Deronda is obese. And what does "a fat" mean? It's not emphasised speech but nevertheless printed in italics. Is it a foreign word, and if so, what language? does anyone have any clues?

[Vince]

This says it’s “from Provençal (stupid, mad) and Latin ‘fatuus’ (without taste).”

On Mar 8, 2021, at 8:39 PM, David Grigg <david...@gmail.com> wrote:

Here's another puzzle in Deronda:

<2021-03-09 13-35-47.jpg>

It's pretty clear to me that Grandcourt doesn't mean that Deronda is obese. And what does "a fat" mean? It's not emphasised speech but nevertheless printed in italics. Is it a foreign word, and if so, what language? does anyone have any clues?

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<2021-03-09 13-35-47.jpg>

[David Grigg]

Oh brilliant, well done! Thanks. That makes it <i xml:lang=“oc”>fat</i>.

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[David Grigg]

Or rather xml:lang=“oci” I think.

[Vince]

I’ll take your word for it :), although in that case wouldn’t it be oc? The 639-2 Wiki page says oc and oci are the same. Don’t we use the two-digit code if there is one?

And I guess it could also be mul for multiple, if you want to include the Latin source.

[David Grigg]

Hmmm…. Now that I look again, Grandcourt’s meaning seems to be more along the lines of the Latin (“without taste”) rather than “stupid, mad”. So is it <i xml:lang=“la”><abbr>fat</abbr></i> ?

[Vince]

Given that it’s not obvious from whence it came, I don’t think you can go wrong with either. :)

[David Grigg]

This is now ready for review.

https://github.com/drgrigg/george-eliot_daniel-deronda.git

[Alex Cabal]

Everything looks good, I've gone ahead and released it. Thanks!

On 4/8/21 9:09 PM, David Grigg wrote:
> This is now ready for review.
>
> https://github.com/drgrigg/george-eliot_daniel-deronda.git
>
>
> On Tuesday, 9 March 2021 at 14:48:52 UTC+11 Vince wrote:
>
> Given that it’s not obvious from whence it came, I don’t think you
> can go wrong with either. :)
>
>
>> On Mar 8, 2021, at 9:39 PM, David Grigg <david...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hmmm…. Now that I look again, Grandcourt’s meaning seems to be
>> more along the lines of the Latin (“without taste”) rather than
>> “stupid, mad”. So is it <i xml:lang=“la”><abbr>fat</abbr></i> ?
>> On 9 Mar 2021, 2:27 PM +1100, Vince <vr_se...@letterboxes.org>, wrote:
>>
>> I’ll take your word for it :), although in that case wouldn’t
>> it be oc? The 639-2

>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ISO_639-2_codes> Wiki

>> page says oc and oci are the same. Don’t we use the two-digit
>> code if there is one?
>>
>> And I guess it could also be mul for multiple, if you want to
>> include the Latin source.
>>
>

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