[First Project] Castle Rackrent by Maria Edgeworth

[Christopher Hapka]

Hello! I've had a lot of experience with ebooks and the epub standard, and have worked as a professional writer and editor. I've hand-coded (well, grep-and-hand coded) epubs before and also written some scripts to generate them from other markup formats, so I'm comfortable with the format and familiar with the work it takes to modernise a public domain text. I'm also experienced editing to a standard. I've not used GitHub before but I'm comfortable with technology and willing to learn, and the non-programmer's guide seems helpful. I'm interested specifically in contributing some notable English-language Irish literature to the project.

I've chosen what I think is an appropriate work for a first project, with one possible issue.

Castle Rackrent is an important novel in the English tradition, sometimes called the first historical novel. It's about 50,000 words, with no illustrations. It's in Project Gutenberg and there are page images available at the Internet Archive for the 1832 edition, published as part of the author's collected works and the last edition she was involved with before her death; this edition also forms the basis for most modern critical editions. I even found an appropriate cover image marked as copyright free by an approved institution.

Here's the one issue I'm having. The book has footnotes in the text, which are not an issue; most of my experience with the epub format has been with heavily annotated texts. But then there is a separate "glossary" after the text (see p. 95 of the edition linked above). This isn't a modern alphabetical glossary but a list of literal glosses, with each gloss containing a page reference and discussion of a particular term used on that page; e.g., "Page 9. English tenants.—An English tenant does not mean a tenant who is an Englishman, but..."

Essentially these are extra endnotes separate from, but very similar to, the footnotes. My instinct would be, since the footnotes would be converted to endnotes in any case, to combine the two types of notes together in a single set of endnotes and mention this in the se:production-notes element. If that resolution makes sense, the work is otherwise uncomplicated, and I'd like to propose this as a first project.

[Alex Cabal]

Sure, you can start that as a first project.

Re. cover art, that might work, but note that the title box will obscure
most of the detail in the bottom third of any cover. So, if you're
planning on the manor being the focal point, you'll have to do a very,
very close crop. Even then, the cover might end up looking like a book
about a mountain. So try it out to see and if it doesn't work then you
might have to find something else.

Re. footnotes, I agree, you can combine the two. You can add
<cite>—Editor</cite> to the end of each of the "glossary" notes, to
differentiate them from the footnotes not by the editor. You can just
cut the intro to the glossary.

Make sure to read the Standard Ebooks Manual of Style before starting,
as you won't know what to fix if you haven't read the standards. In
particular, please closely review the semantics, high level patterns,
and typography sections:

https://standardebooks.org/manual

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography

The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:

https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step

Please email often if you have any questions at all. Our standards are
well-established so there is probably already a standard for formatting
whatever problem you've encountered.

When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github repository so
that I can mark you as having started.

Have fun! :)

On 7/23/23 6:17 AM, Christopher Hapka wrote:
> Hello! I've had a lot of experience with ebooks and the epub standard,
> and have worked as a professional writer and editor. I've hand-coded
> (well, grep-and-hand coded) epubs before and also written some scripts
> to generate them from other markup formats, so I'm comfortable with the
> format and familiar with the work it takes to modernise a public domain
> text. I'm also experienced editing to a standard. I've not used GitHub
> before but I'm comfortable with technology and willing to learn, and the
> non-programmer's guide seems helpful. I'm interested specifically in
> contributing some notable English-language Irish literature to the project.
>
> I've chosen what I think is an appropriate work for a first project,
> with one possible issue.
>
> Castle Rackrent is an important novel in the English tradition,
> sometimes called the first historical novel. It's about 50,000 words,
> with no illustrations. It's in Project Gutenberg and there are page
> images available at the Internet Archive

> <https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/> for the 1832

> edition, published as part of the author's collected works and the last
> edition she was involved with before her death; this edition also forms
> the basis for most modern critical editions. I even found an appropriate
> cover image

> <https://collections.britishart.yale.edu/catalog/tms:548> marked as

> copyright free by an approved institution.
>
> Here's the one issue I'm having. The book has footnotes in the text,
> which are not an issue; most of my experience with the epub format has
> been with heavily annotated texts. But then there is a separate
> "glossary" after the text (see p. 95 of the edition linked above). This
> isn't a modern alphabetical glossary but a list of literal glosses, with
> each gloss containing a page reference and discussion of a particular

> term used on that page; e.g., "Page 9. /English tenants/.—An English

> tenant does not mean a tenant who is an Englishman, but..."
>
> Essentially these are extra endnotes separate from, but very similar to,
> the footnotes. My instinct would be, since the footnotes would be
> converted to endnotes in any case, to combine the two types of notes
> together in a single set of endnotes and mention this in the
> se:production-notes element. If that resolution makes sense, the work is
> otherwise uncomplicated, and I'd like to propose this as a first project.
>

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[Christopher Hapka]

Here's the repository: https://github.com/chapkachapka/maria-edgeworth_castle-rackrent

I also had a question. This book has English-style quotations, where first level quotes are single quoted instead of double quoted. I thought I remembered seeing a reference somewhere in the documentation to a script designed specifically to change this over to the American standard, but I can't find it in the style guide. Is there a script or should I just grep my way through it manually?

[Christopher Hapka]

Actually, never mind--I found it at the end of the step by step guide. Is there a reason it's this late in the process?--it seems like it'd be better to run it before manually checking the quote conversions, so you could check both in a single pass.

[Weijia Cheng]

It's step 12 so right in the middle of the process: https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step#quotation

[Alex Cabal]

Vince can you manage this with Lukas reviewing?

> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics
> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics>
>
> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns>
>
> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography

> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography>
>
> The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:
>

> https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step>

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/af0dc270-a46b-4d78-8d7f-c8cb235fa92fn%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/af0dc270-a46b-4d78-8d7f-c8cb235fa92fn%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/af0dc270-a46b-4d78-8d7f-c8cb235fa92fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/af0dc270-a46b-4d78-8d7f-c8cb235fa92fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

>
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[Vince Rice]

Will do.

> On Jul 25, 2023, at 9:50 AM, Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org> wrote:
>
> Vince can you manage this with Lukas reviewing?

[Lukas Bystricky]

Sure, I'll review

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[Vince]

It’s helpful if you can provide links to the pages in the scans where your questions occur; that way we can see the text and context. Thanks!

While we should be familiar with the whole manual, Section 8.2 is one of the more important ones to review early and often and late and often and just often. :) Text is italicized for a lot of reasons, not all of them valid for an SE production, and it lays out most of the instances that are encountered. 

As that section starts off, <em> is used for emphasis, and only emphasis. None of the examples you’ve listed are emphasis, so none would be <em>.

I’ll wait to see the passage mentioned in #1 before commenting further on it.

For 2, we do occasionally use <dfn> for those kind of endnotes; just target the dfn in the CSS to italicize.

For 3, breaking them up is not necessary, and possibly not even desirable. The book I just finished had multi-page length paragraphs that contained dialog like that, and it was an intentional stylistic decision. Regardless, if that is how both the scans and the transcription look, then they should stay as is. (In general, if the manual or step-by-step doesn’t say something has to be done, then that something doesn’t have to be done.)

On Jul 27, 2023, at 9:12 AM, Christopher Hapka <ch...@hapka.com> wrote:

A couple of questions I ran across during the manual typography review:

1. There's a passage early in the book where the author is quoting a line of dialogue, inline in the middle of a paragraph, including the speaking character's name. I've just put this as an "em" tag, is that right? Or should I use an italic tag with a semantic type like "persona"?

2. Similarly, some but not all of the footnotes in this work as published are formatted like a glossary, with the term repeated in italics before the note, as:

<em>Childer:</em> this is the manner in which many of Thady’s rank, and others in Ireland, formerly pronounced the word <em>children</em>.

I've put these in as em tags; would it be better to use a semantic tag like "dfn"--or to omit them? I would lean towards retaining them since the author didn't include them in every note, only where the note was defining an unfamiliar term.

3. The dialogue in the edition I'm working from (and in most early printed editions) is not broken up into paragraphs, so you will have multiple people speaking in a single long paragraph:

"Where are the trees," said she, "my dear?" still looking through her glass. "You are blind, my dear," says he; "what are these under your eyes?" "These shrubs," said she.

Would I be right in thinking that modernising the text includes breaking these up into separate paragraphs?

Thanks, and I'll add more questions as I run into them.

[Christopher Hapka]

Thanks, that's very helpful. For #1, here's a link to the page:

https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/2/mode/1up

The passage appears in the footnote on page 2, and starts with "Iren.", which is the abbreviation for one of the characters' names in the dialogue by Spencer that Edgeworth is referencing. My best guess would be to use an "i" element with the semantic tag epub:type="z3998:persona" -- is this right?

On the third question, the text I'm using, which is the last one reviewed by the author, bunches the quotes together into large paragraphs, while the PG transcription is split up. I've also taken a quick look at some modern editions and most of them seem to retain Edgeworth's enormous paragraphs, so I'll go through and get rid of the extraneous PG-added paragraph tags.

Also, a practical question: I'm working on a Mac with BBEdit. Is there a simple way of accessing characters like the word joiner? I needed it for an em dash and just Googled around and found a random web site that let me copy it to the clipboard, but is there an easier method I'm missing?

Thanks!

[Alex Cabal]

Re. word joiner, just run `se tyogrify` again and it will add them for
you. You can use this Git incantation to see changes at the character
level to confirm: `git diff -U0 --word-diff-regex=.`

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[B Keith]

If you turn on your hex input (under keyboard preferences) you can add it via the hex code. In this case opt+2060 (on the keypad)

But honestly, I find it easier to cut and paste rather than try and remember all the hex codes

B

_________

Gaudeamus igitur iuvenes dum sumus

[Vince]

Hmmm. We usually only use z3998:persona in a play context, i.e. when the text or text block is being formatted as a play. Which this isn’t. So unless Alex says otherwise, I would just make it an unsemanticated italic.

The (this should be black bogs) further down in the quote is also interesting. That sounds like an editorial interjection, i.e. not part of the Spencer quote? If that is correct (and it might not be; you’re more familiar with it than I am), then that should be in square brackets [ ], not parens, and it doesn’t need to be all italics; the black bogs could be emphasized as the thick woods are, e.g. [this should be <em>black blogs</em>]. That would be an [Editorial] commit, since the text is being changed.

As Alex said, rerunning typogrify at some point near the end will take care of all of that for you, so you don’t need to worry about it.

Personally (also on a Mac), I use a text substitution tool to define some substitutions for things like word joiners, 2- and 3-em dashes, hair spaces, etc. Typinator, Launchbar, Alfred, etc. will all do the trick. Then I define ;wj ;2em, ;3em, etc. as the appropriate code. I’m definitely not going to remember the codes, but I also got tired of having to hunt for something to cut-and-paste.

[Christopher Hapka]

The other thought I had was "q"--it is actually a quote from the main text, after all, and a q tag styled as italics, as the Manual recommends for internal monologue (8.2.7). That would also make sense for something like the note on this page:

https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/95/mode/1up

where there are a lot of italics in a row:

<q>Monday morning</q>—Thady begins his memoirs of the Rackrent Family by dating <q>Monday morning</q>, because no great undertaking can be auspiciously commenced in Ireland on any morning but <q>Monday morning</q>.

It's not exactly emphasis, but it is quoting the main text, so maybe that's the closest to a semantic tag?

[Vince]

As mentioned, using <dfn> for the definitions themselves is fine; we do that in other productions.

Some of the italics don’t need to be italics at all; they can be quotes.

<dfn>Let alone the three kingdoms itself.</dfn>

“Let alone,” in this sentence, means “put out of consideration.” The phrase, “let alone,” which is now used…

[Christopher Hapka]

That makes sense. I'll do another round of typography to clean that up once I've committed the endnotes file.

One more issue that's come up as I work through the endnotes. Per Alex, I'm combining both the original footnotes and the notes contained in the "glossary" into one numbered list of endnotes. For the most part that's going smoothly, but I'm having an issue on page 11 where the term "fairy-mount" has *both* a one-paragraph footnote:

https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/11/mode/1up

*and* a four-page endnote:

https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/104/mode/1up

For now, I've put these in as two consecutive notes just to try to get endnotes.xhtml committed, but eventually, would it make sense to combine them? I was thinking it would make sense to include "Barrows" (the simple definition) from the endnote, then the footnote, then continue with the endnote. I assume this would be done as a separate editorial commit? Or do you have another idea?

[Vince]

I don’t see any reason not to leave them as two different notes.

[Christopher Hapka]

A quick question about datelines:

This book starts with a right-justified dateline ("Monday morning"). I've looked through the vocabulary and some other texts and found "letter.dateline" and "diary.dateline", but semantically this isn't really a diary entry or a letter. Is there a more appropriate semantic tag to use?

https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/n24/mode/1up

Also, I've just finished going through all of the italicised passages. I did end up, as suggested, converting a lot of them to quotation marks, as many of the passages were just discussing the definition of words or phrases composed of common English words. Here's the diff:

https://github.com/chapkachapka/maria-edgeworth_castle-rackrent/commit/93f3de1c645c36c15fd76cab8d7106bc76e94ff9#diff-3a7d9c1eaf4ca74c6f0acf48ddff5a20346aca2d781f5f75db3c9b5a22cee23b

Since this is my first stab at this, would it make sense for someone to quickly look at this diff now, to make sure I've understood the Manual?

[Vince]

I think that’s another instance of an unsemanticated italic. (I just saw some of those in something I reviewed recently; they’re not diary entries, they’re just markers of when something is happening, so there are no appropriate semantics.)

I spot-checked the diff and overall it looks good. The detail review can wait for … the review. :)

I did notice some unrelated things:

• There are non-English quotes that aren’t tagged with a language. If you just haven’t gotten that far, no worries.
• There are blockquote cites that aren’t direct children of the blockquote. See SEMoS 1.7.3 for information on the blockquote cite, and note-4 for examples of both.
• Transactions of the Royal Irish Academy doesn’t appear to be a single book, but multiple volumes produced over time. We would therefore semanticate that as a journal.

[Christopher Hapka]

What about the right justification in the dateline--is there a preferred way to preserve that? Or is it not considered important to preserve?

Also, one more new question: there are a few places in the book where sums of money are mention, for example, here:

https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/14/mode/1up

where the transcription has  "...must remit £500 to Bath for his use..." and the printed text has "...remit 500l. to...". 

The SEMoS seems to suggest that 500 should be written out, so it would have to change to "five hundred pounds"--is this right, or does the currency marker make a difference here?

[Vince]

You can just target the paragraph directly, e.g. #<section id> p:first-of-type.

If you mean 8.8.3, I don’t recall seeing that applied to currency, and we have hundreds of instances in the corpus, so the £500 is fine. We do modernize the currency symbols (see 8.8.9), so the £ is correct.

[Christopher Hapka]

Kind of a technical CSS question.

I targeted the "dateline" of the novel in CSS with a p first-of-type selector to right justify it, which worked fine:

section#part-1 p:first-of-type{
text-align: right;
}

However, because that is the first <p> tag in the file, targeting it as first-of-type broke any other CSS that used "text-align:initial" -- specifically, the z3998:verse p tag in local.css and the blockquote p tag in se.css. So all of the poetry and block quotes were showing up as right justified.

I don't get the same result if I use a class instead of a selector. Should I just use the class here, or am I doing something wrong with the selector? 

[Vince]

We don’t use classes for one-off situations (see SEMoS 5.2).

Opening the file in a browser will let you use the inspector to see what’s applying where and when. I’m not where I can do experimenting, but you just need a selector that will apply to that one paragraph. If first-of-type doesn’t work, then something like h2 + p should. The “section" isn’t needed, so

#part-1 > h2 + p {

should do it.

[Christopher Hapka]

Is there a way to suggest hyphenation points in unfamiliar words?

The name "Allyballycarricko'shaughlin" occurs several times in this book, and because the reader I'm using doesn't know where to hyphenate it, it's leading to some ugly line breaking.

I know this is basically a reader problem rather than a problem with the epub file, but I wanted to see if there was any way to encode hyphenation "hints" in a word like this to avoid it?

https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/22/mode/1up

[Alex Cabal]

Soft hyphen, U+00AD

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[Christopher Hapka]

Okay; the first close proof is done, and I have a rake of questions, some structural and some picky.

Here are the big structural questions:

1. The book as published is in two parts. There's a preface, then a half-title ("Castle Rackrent"), then the first part is also titled "Castle Rackrent" and the second half "Continuation of the Memoirs of the Rackrent Family." I've retained these as the section titles, but it makes the table of contents look a bit odd. Is there a different way I should handle this? (Part 1: https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/n24/mode/1up?view=theater Part 2: https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/33/mode/1up?view=theater )

2. The printed edition I'm working from has some sections I'm setting as block quotes, but that also have quotation marks at the beginning and end of the block. Should the quotation marks be removed, or are they still appropriate? (Example: https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/119/mode/1up?view=theater )

3. The titles and subtitles in the printed book have periods at the end, which I've omitted. Should I put them back? I'm used to them being omitted in modern editions.

Now the specific issues:

4. A few times, the book punctuates with a combination of a comma and an em dash: “...you may have had some things to complain of,”⁠—to be sure he was thinking then of Judy, or of the whiskey punch, one or t’other, or both,⁠—“and as I don’t deny...”⁠ Can I leave this as is or should one or both occurrences be changed to just an em dash?  (https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/66/mode/1up?view=theater )

5. In some of my endnotes, there is a difference between the phrase as it occurs in the book and the heading used in the footnote or glossary entry. Sometimes it's typography ("duty-work" vs. "duty work"), sometimes it's another minor difference ("kith and kin" vs. "kith or kin"), singular vs. plural. Should I correct these and assuming so, does that count as an "Editorial" commit?

6. There's a small diagram in the book (here: https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/40/mode/1up ). It's just "Judy McQuirk Her Mark" arranged around an X, to show the way an illiterate person's name would be signed on a legal document. I've set this as a small table. Is there a way to clean this up for screen readers? Would the table summary attribute accomplish this?

7. There are a few specific words I wasn't sure whether they count as archaic or just British usage, where there used to be a difference between the US and UK but the form is now fading out even in the UK: specifically, "gaol" (as a general term, "put him in gaol," not a proper name) and "demesne".

8. Do we modernise the spelling of archaic words for which there's no actual modern equivalent? I assume we would modernise "ink-well" to "inkwell"; does that mean we should also modernise "ink-horn"? 

On to the second proof...

[Christopher Hapka]

While I'm proofing I wanted to post a proposed cover for approval. This is a close crop of the Yale British Art CC0 image I posted earlier in the thread, but it's a high enough original image that I think it turned out well. The font doesn't look quite like I was expecting though, like it's a different weight than the covers I see in the catalogue; does anyone have any idea why this might be? I have the League Spartan ttf package installed and I'm running on MacOS if that makes a difference.

[Vince]

1. If that’s what they’re called, that’s what they’re called. :)

2. I’ve tried to get rid of those before, but our EiC says leave them.

3. SEMoS 8.1.3.

4. Typogrify should have already removed the second one, so you probably need to re-run it. The first one is in quotes, so typogrify doesn’t do it automatically, but I’d say in this instance it should be removed as well.

5. The duty-work/duty work should have already come up in se find-mismatched-dashes (which you should run and resolve before proofing); since duty-work isn’t in M-W, then it should be duty work throughout. I would think the rest of the references should match, though, and any changes to the text are editorial.

6. It definitely should not be a table; tables are for tabular data, not for formatting; you might be able to use display:table to accomplish much the same thing. The X appears to be on its side, though, which might be challenging from a CSS perspective as well.

7. We leave both of those as is. (The latter is in M-W, so would be left regardless.)

8. Inkhorn is in M-W, so should have been handled by modernize-spelling and can therefore be fixed. I’ll submit a PR to add it to our words list. In general, we don’t usually mess with compound words that modernize-spelling doesn’t fix.

[Andy Tinkham]

I had a similar issue with the font. In my case, the actual file was correct. I think it was using QuickView to get a screenshot. I may also not have been looking at the correct file. Look at src/images/cover.svg not at images/cover.svg.  (Mine actually show the issue too - the one in the top-level images/ folder is a lighter weight version, while the one in the src folder is correct. 

On Aug 8, 2023, at 4:40 PM, Christopher Hapka <ch...@hapka.com> wrote:

While I'm proofing I wanted to post a proposed cover for approval. This is a close crop of the Yale British Art CC0 image I posted earlier in the thread, but it's a high enough original image that I think it turned out well. The font doesn't look quite like I was expecting though, like it's a different weight than the covers I see in the catalogue; does anyone have any idea why this might be? I have the League Spartan ttf package installed and I'm running on MacOS if that makes a difference.

<cover-svg.jpg>

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<cover-svg.jpg>

[Vince]

Quicklook will display the font correctly, and images/cover.svg is fine to use if the font is installed, I do it all the time; it’s not necessary to build the images just to get a mockup of the cover.

Christopher, does Font Book show that it’s installed, and does it look correct in its preview? Either way, building the images will use the embedded fonts, so it will be correct for publication.

If you’re feeling adventurous, it would be nice to soften the cracks in the sky. This is from a thread from last year from someone else who’s done it using gimp:

I used the free image editor, gimp, but if you have photoshop or some other similar editor, the principle will be about the same.

The general idea is to overlay the bright cracks with an average of the color around them. The cracks will still be identifiable in the final image, but they'll be muted and won't draw so much attention to themselves.

1. Make a copy of the original image on a new layer above the original.
2. On the new layer, apply a bit of Gaussian blur. I found a blur size of around 3 to 10 pixels to work well.
   
3. On the new layer, add a layer mask and paste the original image as the mask.
4. In the layer mask, use the threshold tool to emphasize the cracks. You don't need to see every crack. You want just the worst cracks to stand out clearly in the black and white mask, with minimal noise elsewhere.
   
5. In the layer mask, manually paint out or bucket-fill any white areas that aren't cracks with black. (This will be any parts of the image that are brighter than the cracks themselves.)

[Christopher Hapka]

Thanks, that's very helpful.

4. There are a lot of transcription errors/differences that I manually changed during the proof, this was likely one of them.  I will go back and run typogrify, find-mismatched-dashes, etc. again now that the bulk of the transcription errors should have been fixed.

6. I will rework this to use display:table, or possibly even just a div with text-align:center since the only important formatting is that everything is centred around the X on the second line. The sideways X was actually no problem in the table format, I just targeted it with tr:nth-child(2) td:nth-child(2) and applied writing-mode:vertical-rl. I should be able to wrap the X in a span and do the same.

8. I have a short list of other words I was planning to modernise, some of which are not in the script just because they're Irish-specific (town-lands to townlands), and some are non-compound obsolete spellings, like "tantarum" for "tantrum". I assume these should still be changed. 

There are a few other compounds on the list where M-W lists only the "modern" form but that weren't changed by the script, for example, "purchase-money" (M-W only has "purchase money") and "postchaise" (M-W only has "post chaise" and in fact Google Groups just tried to autocorrect it to that). Should I ignore these, flag them individually for your review, or follow M-W and enter them as Editorial and let them be reviewed in the review?

[Christopher Hapka]

This was the issue, it's light in images/cover.svg but heavy in src/epub/images.svg . Thanks!

[Christopher Hapka]

I will give that a go, I'm not a Gimp power user but I know my way around. 

[Vince]

That probably means a problem with the font installation. If it’s installed correctly, it should look the same in both.

[Vince]

As noted, we generally don’t mess with compound words that modernize-spelling doesn’t fix. You can, but they’re one-offs since they won’t be fixed elsewhere in the corpus, and it’s a bit of whack-a-mole that isn’t worth the effort in most cases. Plus the reviewer has to check each one to ensure it’s correct. Modernize spelling only changes dashed words to remove the dash (ink-well to inkwell), it does not attempt to handle instances where the dash should be a space (too many false positives), and doesn’t go the other way, either. (Other than specific instances listed in the script; removing the dashes generally is handled by a dictionary file of words.)

Archaic spellings of non-compound words we generally want to fix, but even then I search the corpus. The tantarum, if you’re sure it should be tantrum, is the kind of thing that can be corrected.

[Christopher Hapka]

Okay. Based on this, I still think “town-lands” needs to be fixed as it’s a common Irish term (it would be like leaving “town-ships” in an American text), so I’ll do that one but just check the other compounds for consistency and otherwise follow the text.

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[Vince]

Well, township is in M-W, so it should be changed. :) But so is townland, although in the Unabridged, so it’s reasonable to change it.

To reiterate, compounds that aren’t in M-W can be changed, it’s just going to be an inconsistent change (re the corpus), and doing so can turn into a large black whole that sucks in all the time around it. E.g., drawing-room is not technically correct, but there are hundreds if not thousands of occurrences in the corpus.

[Norman Walz]

I wouldn't mind having a go at those cracks in the painting source if you're willing.

[Christopher Hapka]

That would be great, thanks. I've just committed the original and cropped images:

https://github.com/chapkachapka/maria-edgeworth_castle-rackrent/tree/master/images

[Norman Walz]

Sure. I'll post my effort here later on today or tomorrow

[Norman Walz]

See if this works for you. I think the original painting was crooked since the building was a little askew so I straightened it

[Christopher Hapka]

Looks great, thanks! Committed.

[Christopher Hapka]

I'm just about ready to submit -- I was planning on giving it one more proofread first since I reran a couple of scripts as suggested -- but I've got a few final questions/issues:

1. I noticed that find-unusual-characters strips out soft hyphens. As I discussed earlier I included soft hyphens for at least one very long place name ("Allyballycarricko'shaughlin"), so at least some readers will have an easier time; it was causing issues on a reader I was using to proof. Is there any issue with including these or are they just stripped out in the first pass to avoid them going in unnoticed?

2. There's a small text diagram in the book here:  https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/40/ that we discussed before. I changed it from a table to nested divs with display:table, but because display:table doesn't support rowspans, it means there are empty div elements needed to display properly, which lint doesn't like. Is this OK? It seemed like the least worst option for displaying this element.

3.  In the same text diagram, lint is complaining that one of the divs has a single span child. but I can't do as it suggests and promote the attributes of the span to the div. Right now I have the div set to text-align:center, because it need it centred compared to the elements above and below, and the span set to writing-mode:vertical-rl. The result is that on platforms that support it it displays as it's typeset in the printed book as a sidewise boldface X, and those that don't yet support writing-mode still display a centred boldface X. If I apply the writing-mode attribute to the div, it no longer centers horizontally on devices that support writing-mode:vertical, because it treats the entire td as being vertical and centers "vertically" compared to the page.

4. lint also throws up an error reading "<manifest> element does not match expected structure." I've looked over the manifest and don't see any obvious issues; is there something I'm missing?

5. This is the bit that I'm most confused about. I followed SEMoS 7.2 in building the headers for Part 2 of the book and the half title page. Each has an hgroup containing a single H2 element for the title and a single P element for the subtitle. But both lint and build --check-only generate a bunch of errors, lint says the p element is in the wrong order and dings it for not including punctuation, and build says p elements aren't allowed in hgroups. What am I missing here?

6. This may be part of the same hgroup issue, but part 2 has a title and subtitle, and I'm getting an error because only the title is being used in the ToC, which to me would be the expected behaviour.

Other than these issues, I was going to give it one more proof over the next day or so and then it should be ready to submit for review. 

[Vince]

Find-unusual-characters just reports them, it doesn’t remove them, it’s typogrify that removes them. You just have to reject those changes when you run typogrify. (Just as a note, soft-hyphens causes problems with other readers, i.e. preventing the word from being selected normally, looked up in internal dictionaries, etc. It’s not a big deal for this particular word, but it’s why we don’t use them in general.)

I’m going to leave the diagram formatting/CSS to one of our resident experts; I know enough CSS to get most of what I encounter done, but when it gets to this level, I don’t know enough to help. Alex, Robin, do you have any thoughts on the diagram? (Repository here.)

If lint says the manifest doesn’t match, it’s because the manifest doesn’t match. :) Just rerun build-manifest.

What version of the tools are you on? (se --version) What specific errors are you getting (we have codes on them so we can easily identify them)?

[Alex Cabal]

hgroup style changed recently so you may be running an old version of
the tools. Update the tools and try again to see if the hgroup issues go
away. `se --version` should say 2.6.1

On 8/13/23 8:24 AM, Christopher Hapka wrote:
> I'm just about ready to submit -- I was planning on giving it one more
> proofread first since I reran a couple of scripts as suggested -- but
> I've got a few final questions/issues:
>
> 1. I noticed that find-unusual-characters strips out soft hyphens. As I
> discussed earlier I included soft hyphens for at least one very long
> place name ("Allyballycarricko'shaughlin"), so at least some readers
> will have an easier time; it was causing issues on a reader I was using
> to proof. Is there any issue with including these or are they just
> stripped out in the first pass to avoid them going in unnoticed?
>
> 2. There's a small text diagram in the book here:
> https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/40

> <https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/40/mode/1up>/ that we discussed before. I changed it from a table to nested divs with display:table, but because display:table doesn't support rowspans, it means there are empty div elements needed to display properly, which lint doesn't like. Is this OK? It seemed like the least worst option for displaying this element.

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[Alex Cabal]

The diagram can just be:

<div style="text-align: center;">
<div>Her</div>
<div>Judy X McQuirk,</div>
<div>Mark.</div>
</div>

Div is fine here because it's a diagram without semantic meaning.

Note that the name should be McQuirk, the lsquo is a lazy typographic
shortcut often used in that era.

On 8/13/23 9:20 AM, Vince wrote:
> Find-unusual-characters just reports them, it doesn’t remove them, it’s
> typogrify that removes them. You just have to reject those changes when
> you run typogrify. (Just as a note, soft-hyphens causes problems with
> other readers, i.e. preventing the word from being selected normally,
> looked up in internal dictionaries, etc. It’s not a big deal for this
> particular word, but it’s why we don’t use them in general.)
>
> I’m going to leave the diagram formatting/CSS to one of our resident
> experts; I know enough CSS to get most of what I encounter done, but
> when it gets to this level, I don’t know enough to help. Alex, Robin, do
> you have any thoughts on the diagram? (Repository here

> <https://github.com/chapkachapka/maria-edgeworth_castle-rackrent/tree/master/src/epub/text>.)

>
> If lint says the manifest doesn’t match, it’s because the manifest
> doesn’t match. :) Just rerun build-manifest.
>
> What version of the tools are you on? (se --version) What specific
> errors are you getting (we have codes on them so we can easily identify
> them)?
>
>
>> On Aug 13, 2023, at 8:24 AM, Christopher Hapka <ch...@hapka.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm just about ready to submit -- I was planning on giving it one more
>> proofread first since I reran a couple of scripts as suggested -- but
>> I've got a few final questions/issues:
>>
>> 1. I noticed that find-unusual-characters strips out soft hyphens. As
>> I discussed earlier I included soft hyphens for at least one very long
>> place name ("Allyballycarricko'shaughlin"), so at least some readers
>> will have an easier time; it was causing issues on a reader I was
>> using to proof. Is there any issue with including these or are they
>> just stripped out in the first pass to avoid them going in unnoticed?
>>
>> 2. There's a small text diagram in the book here:
>> https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/40

>> <https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/40/mode/1up>/ that we discussed before. I changed it from a table to nested divs with display:table, but because display:table doesn't support rowspans, it means there are empty div elements needed to display properly, which lint doesn't like. Is this OK? It seemed like the least worst option for displaying this element.

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[Christopher Hapka]

I tried that, but it doesn't quite work because the X is not in the centre of the middle line. So the diagram doesn't line up the way it does on the page--the top and bottom lines aren't centred on the X, they're centred on the middle of the line.

[Alex Cabal]

Then you can align it like that by default, and use an @supports media
query to correctly align it using CSS grid for readers that support
that. If they don't then it'll just be off by a few pixels, not a big deal.

> <https://github.com/chapkachapka/maria-edgeworth_castle-rackrent/tree/master/src/epub/text <https://github.com/chapkachapka/maria-edgeworth_castle-rackrent/tree/master/src/epub/text>>.)

> <https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/40/mode/1up

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/9D2B846D-08E1-4E31-BC4D-35C485ACCD50%40letterboxes.org <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/9D2B846D-08E1-4E31-BC4D-35C485ACCD50%40letterboxes.org> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/9D2B846D-08E1-4E31-BC4D-35C485ACCD50%40letterboxes.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/9D2B846D-08E1-4E31-BC4D-35C485ACCD50%40letterboxes.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

>
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[Christopher Hapka]

Okay; it seems like the main issue was my being on v2.6.0 instead of 2.6.1. After upgrading and following Alex's and Vince's other advice, I've gotten rid of all of the build --check-only errors, and the only lint errors remaining are:

s-064 -- this is a "manual review" warning because lint sees something it thinks is a citation, but it's not, it's just a short footnote with an em dash in it. Safe to ignore in this case.

c-016 -- this is a request to use text-align: initial instead of left. This is the grid css for the display:grid section, and in this context I think left is actually the correct semantic tag. Changing it to initial doesn't change the output but I think this is an exception where what we're trying to do semantically is align the left side of the grid on the right and the right side of the grid on the left, and it doesn't make sense to leave one as "right" and change the other to "initial". But I can change it if you like.

t-058 -- this version of lint now flags the soft hyphens we discussed earlier as illegal characters. I have used them only in one extremely long fictional proper noun that was causing my reader problems during proofreading, as discussed above.

Let me know if you need me to make any changes based on these. Otherwise I'm going to do one more proofing run. I'll be on my holidays this week, so if I don't find any issues I'll let you know it's ready to submit, and if I do they'll probably have to wait till I get back to my computer on Friday.

[Vince]

Unless Alex says otherwise, I would set it to “initial”.

You can create ignore records for the other two.

[Christopher Hapka]

Okay; Castle Rackrent is now ready to submit. That was...probably not a great choice for a smooth first project, but I got there in the end!

Page images: https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/

Repository: https://github.com/chapkachapka/maria-edgeworth_castle-rackrent

[Lukas Bystricky]

Ok, I'll have a look in the next couple days. 

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[Christopher Hapka]

Just remembered one more change I wanted to make; I want to wrap one bit of CSS in a @supports tag as I ran into one reader that didn't fail gracefully when faced with writing-mode:vertical-rl. Should I do that now or wait until you've finished the review? 

[Lukas Bystricky]

Feel free to make it now, I haven't started the review yet.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/ffbf11d8-e66a-4e59-9eaf-01554b63c70fn%40googlegroups.com.

[Christopher Hapka]

Done, thanks--I'll test it on the reader that was giving me trouble.

[Lukas Bystricky]

Ok, I submitted a few issues. Very good work overall, definitely not an easy first production!

[Christopher Hapka]

I've corrected and committed most of the issues identified in the review. A couple of questions/concerns:

1. You ask for single quotes on "beast" in note 13. This is a third-level quote; the first level quote is the Irishman's story ("Oh, troth..."), the second level quote is the fairy nobleman addressing the Irishman ('No, you mustn't nor won't...') and "beast" is within the fairy's quote, which ends a few words later with 'so come along with me.' I don't have a copy of the CMOS but I think the rule is to alternate double and single quotes, which would make this a third-level double quote.

2. I've added some italics for some of the unfamiliar terms, but in most cases I tagged them as xml-lang "en-IE". I didn't want to flag them as "ie" because even where they're derived from Irish they're given in a heavily Anglicised spelling and a screen reader trying to pronounce them "as Gaeilge" wouldn't give the desired result. (For example, the actual Irish for "Whillaloo" is spelled "uile liúigh"). The same with "gossoon", from French. Let me know if you still want these tagged with the language of origin and I'll change them.

3. For "cartron," this is not an Irish language word, it's an Anglo-Norman legal term, which is why the Irish-speaking but uneducated Thady mishears it as "cartons". (The Irish term for this unit is "tríocha céad," thirty hundreds). I could tag it as "en-IE" like the others since it was most commonly used in Ireland, but it's really regional or archaic English rather than a foreign loan-word.

Other than that, I'll build a new version and review for other possible terms to italicise as you suggest, and let you know once I've finished.

[Lukas Bystricky]

Yes, you're right about the quotes, my mistake. 

As for the Irish English, I suppose those aren't technically foreign words so they don't need to be tagged or italicized (Alex may overrule me there). Note that they may still require italics for rule 8.2.10.1. 

[Lukas Bystricky]

Oh yeah, I added a couple more tasks to the repo in case you didn't get notified. 

[Christopher Hapka]

Okay, I've taken a crack at both sets of issues. The only really tough issue is italics. There were four main categories of words I considered:

1. English transliterations of Irish words, like "Whillaloo", "cleave" (from "cliabh"), and "loy". I italicised these, but tagged them as "en-IE" rather than "ie" so screen readers wouldn't try to pronounce them as if they were properly spelled Irish words. The same with Irish dialect words derived from other languages (e.g. "gossoon").

2. Hiberno-English dialect and slang not directly derived from the Irish language ("Arrah," "canting" in the sense of selling at auction), or very common in modern dialect ("naggin").

3. Eye dialect, like "crater", "childer", and "shister". I've left these alone as well.

4. "Croteries". This one is mysterious. I suspect it's a typo for "coteries" and I've seen it "corrected" to this a few times. But I've checked the original source Edgeworth is quoting:

http://www.jstor.org/stable/30078681

and it definitely says "croteries". It's not Irish, it's not English as far as I can tell, I see no evidence of it every being used as an alternate spelling, and I don't know that I have enough evidence to correct it. Any guidance would be appreciated.

[Lukas Bystricky]

If you think a word is actually an English word then it doesn't need italics at all, but if you want to give screen readers guidance you can tag it as en-IE inside a span. "Common" words written in dialect are fine as is and don't need to be tagged. 

Regarding "croteries", if it makes sense in context to use "coteries" and subsequent printings have made that change then we can change it too. 

[Christopher Hapka]

Okay. I've editorially corrected "croteries", and reviewed everything else I have marked as en-IE and am confident that the italicisation makes sense either as a loan-word or under rule 8.2.10.1. 

I still have some loan-words italicised under rule rule 8.2.9.1 and flagged as xml:lang="en-ie" under the rationale that marking the transliterated word as xml:lang="ie" would cause the screen reader to give bad output. For example: if an English writer used the word "Volkswagen" in a book but spelled it "Fuchs Vougene", you wouldn't want to flag it as "de" because the screen reader would mangle it. The same is true for "uille liúigh" spelled by Edgeworth as "Whillaloo" or "liúigh" spelled as "loy". In this case the ISO gives us a compromise ("en-IE") that lets us flag the reason for the italics semantically while singling screen readers to use English pronunciation rules.

If you're happy with that compromise, I think all the review issued have been addressed. If you want me to handle these words differently, just let me know--everything is tagged now so it's easy enough to search and revise.

[Lukas Bystricky]

Ok, I think I see the issue. Some of these words are in fact Gaelic, but they're spelt phonetically. Is that right?

In that case I think your approach is fine because you want to keep italics and indicate to screen readers to attempt to read phonetically in English. However, I would make sure that none of the words have actually made their way into the English language. For example whillaloo is marked in MW as a British dialectal word, meaning that it's not a foreign word. Likewise loy also shows up in MW, as deriving from Gaelic, but crucially not Gaelic. Both these cases are only in the unabridged MW, but that's not important here because it just indicates that these are rather obscure words but they're not technically foreign words and therefore do not require italics. (This may contradict what I wrote earlier in your repo.)

[Christopher Hapka]

Yes, I think that makes sense. Based on that standard, I'd remove italics from:

* Whillaluh

* gossoon (M-W says "chiefly Irish...modification of French garçon")

* shebeen ("chiefly Ireland and South Africa")

I'd leave as italicised and en-IE:

* cleave (in the sense of a tool; not in M-W at all and a direct respelling of Irish "cliabh")

* ullaloo (in the OED as "ululu" but not in M-W at all.)

I'll go through later today and make those changes. Most of the other words at issue are covered under Rule 8.2.10.1, where Edgeworth is clearly introducing new terms ("cartron", etc.).

The last question I have (for now) is about "custodiam". Under SEMoS 8.2.9.4 it would be italicised because it's only in the M-W "unabridged" results. But SEMoS 8.9.1 dealing specifically with Latinisms just says they're not italicised if found in "a modern dictionary."  Does that mean the unabridged is good enough to not italicise "custodiam" or is the rule the same for Latin as for other languages?

[Lukas Bystricky]

That rule exists mainly to point out the exceptions that appear in the dictionary but are set in italics anyways. I'm not sure why the manual says "modern dictionary" instead of unabridged MW, maybe that should be updated? In any case, in general we treat Latin as we would any other language (with the given exceptions), so custodiam should be italicized.

[Christopher Hapka]

Okay--that's taken care of, then. What's next?

[Lukas Bystricky]

A couple more minor to look at, then we can pass it off to Alex. 

[Christopher Hapka]

Note 41 is a minefield, isn't it?

"Cantred" and "cartron" are both archaic English measures of land area, so neither gets a tag. I've italicised both as newly introduced technical terms under 8.2.10.1. 

"Quarteron" and "hyde" are non-standard spellings of "quartern" and "hide," both of which are in the M-W basic search including their meanings as a unit of measurement. As such I've used quotation marks as newly introduced and defined terms made up of English terms.

I followed Edgeworth in italicising "kilt" in note 30, also under 8.2.10.1, where she italicises it in the context of defining it as different from "killed":

https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/111/

Later in the same note she italicises it again, which I originally had tagged as "em", although on second thought I don't see a strong semantic reason for that italic so I've now removed it:

https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/112/

Elsewhere in the book I've left it alone as eye-dialect, as has Edgeworth.

I ran typogrify, which fixed one hyphen spacing; it also removed the soft hyphens in the one place I used them, which I rejected.

[Alex Cabal]

It says "modern dictionary" because the manual is meant to be a general
purpose manual, not just for SE books. So someone could use their own
dictionary if they want.

On 8/23/23 7:18 AM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
> That rule exists mainly to point out the exceptions that appear in the
> dictionary but are set in italics anyways. I'm not sure why the manual
> says "modern dictionary" instead of unabridged MW, maybe that should be
> updated? In any case, in general we treat Latin as we would any other
> language (with the given exceptions), so custodiam should be italicized.
>
> On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:16:16 PM UTC+2 ch...@hapka.com wrote:
>
> Yes, I think that makes sense. Based on that standard, I'd remove
> italics from:
>
> * Whillaluh
> * gossoon (M-W says "chiefly Irish...modification of French garçon")
> * shebeen ("chiefly Ireland and South Africa")
>
> I'd leave as italicised and en-IE:
>
> * cleave (in the sense of a tool; not in M-W at all and a direct
> respelling of Irish "cliabh")
> * ullaloo (in the OED as "ululu" but not in M-W at all.)
>
> I'll go through later today and make those changes. Most of the
> other words at issue are covered under Rule 8.2.10.1, where
> Edgeworth is clearly introducing new terms ("cartron", etc.).
>
> The last question I have (for now) is about "custodiam". Under SEMoS
> 8.2.9.4

> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.7.3/single-page#8.2.9.4> it

> would be italicised because it's only in the M-W "unabridged"
> results. But SEMoS 8.9.1

> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.7.3/single-page#8.9.1>dealing

> specifically with Latinisms just says they're not italicised if
> found in "a modern dictionary."  Does that mean the unabridged is
> good enough to not italicise "custodiam" or is the rule the same for
> Latin as for other languages?
>
> On Wednesday, 23 August 2023 at 10:09:18 UTC+1 lukasby...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
> Ok, I think I see the issue. Some of these words are in fact
> Gaelic, but they're spelt phonetically. Is that right?
>
> In that case I think your approach is fine because you want to
> keep italics and indicate to screen readers to attempt to read
> phonetically in English. However, I would make sure that none of
> the words have actually made their way into the English
> language. For example whillaloo

> <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whillaloo> is marked

> in MW as a British dialectal word, meaning that it's not a
> foreign word. Likewise loy

> <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/loy> also shows up
> in MW, as deriving from Gaelic, but crucially /not /Gaelic. Both

> these cases are only in the unabridged MW, but that's not
> important here because it just indicates that these are rather
> obscure words but they're not technically foreign words and
> therefore do not require italics. (This may contradict what I
> wrote earlier in your repo.)
> On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 10:14:26 AM UTC+2
> ch...@hapka.com wrote:
>
> Okay. I've editorially corrected "croteries", and reviewed
> everything else I have marked as en-IE and am confident that
> the italicisation makes sense either as a loan-word or under
> rule 8.2.10.1

> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.7.3/single-page#8.2.10.1>.

>
> I still have some loan-words italicised under rule rule
> 8.2.9.1

> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.7.3/single-page#8.2.9.1> and flagged as xml:lang="en-ie" under the rationale that marking the transliterated word as xml:lang="ie" would cause the screen reader to give bad output. For example: if an English writer used the word "Volkswagen" in a book but spelled it "Fuchs Vougene", you wouldn't want to flag it as "de" because the screen reader would mangle it. The same is true for "uille liúigh" spelled by Edgeworth as "Whillaloo" or "liúigh" spelled as "loy". In this case the ISO gives us a compromise ("en-IE") that lets us flag the reason for the italics semantically while singling screen readers to use English pronunciation rules.

> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.7.3/single-page#8.2.10.1>.

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[Lukas Bystricky]

Fair enough.

I think hyde can be modernized to hide, as per MW. Quarteron and quartern aren't exactly sound-alikes so you can leave that as is. And that's that. After you've done that it's ready for Alex.

Again, very good work. This must be one of the more difficult first productions. 

[Christopher Hapka]

Okay, that's done.

[Lukas Bystricky]

Alex this is ready for you.

[Alex Cabal]

In the production notes it says that some endnotes may be essentially
duplicated. Can you give me an example of one of those?

> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.7.3/single-page#8.2.10.1 <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.7.3/single-page#8.2.10.1>>.

> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.7.3/single-page#8.2.10.1 <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.7.3/single-page#8.2.10.1>>.

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/96772ffd-b7e0-4371-9209-d43661365daen%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/96772ffd-b7e0-4371-9209-d43661365daen%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/96772ffd-b7e0-4371-9209-d43661365daen%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/96772ffd-b7e0-4371-9209-d43661365daen%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

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[Christopher Hapka]

There are two places where there are both a footnote and a glossary note for the same term. In the epub, they're notes 12 and 13 ("fairy-mounts") in chapter-1.xhtml  and notes 45 and 46 ("wake") in chapter-2.xhtml.

Here are the page links for "fairy-mounts":

https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/11/mode/1up

https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/104/mode/1up

And for "wake":

https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/78/mode/1up

https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/117/mode/1up

[Alex Cabal]

OK. I think what you should do is merge those into a single endnote,
because having two endnotes attached to the same line is confusing. You
can add a <cite> to each one saying who wrote it, like
<cite>—Editor</cite> (or whoever). Then you can use `se
renumber-endnotes` to clean up the numbering automatically.

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[Vince Rice]

Just as a data point, there are literally dozens of instances of the same thing in Gibbon: two footnotes at the same place from two different people (author/editor or editor1/editor2).

> On Aug 26, 2023, at 10:05 AM, Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org> wrote:
>
> OK. I think what you should do is merge those into a single endnote, because having two endnotes attached to the same line is confusing. You can add a <cite> to each one saying who wrote it, like <cite>—Editor</cite> (or whoever). Then you can use `se renumber-endnotes` to clean up the numbering automatically.

[Christopher Hapka]

All the notes are by Edgeworth, in the person of the fictional editor, so I can't distinguish that way.

The glossary tags are already tagged with a "glossary" <cite>. I could tag the footnotes similarly--either "footnote" or something like "1st Ed. footnote". Would that work?

Or to clarify I could expand the <cite>s to "Edgeworth's footnotes" and "Edgeworth's glossary"--that might look less weird to a reader than a footnote just tagged "footnote"?

[Christopher Hapka]

Per my last message, I've now done the following:

1. Combined the two duplicate endnotes and renumbered the remaining notes;

2. Added <cite>--Footnotes</cite> to each of the non-glossary notes;

3. Added a brief paragraph at the beginning of the Endnotes <section> explaining the situation; and

4. Re-ran clean, lint, and build --check-only to confirm I didn't introduce any new problems in the process.

Let me know if you want me to undo/roll back any of the changes.

[Alex Cabal]

OK great. Since these are only two notes, I merged the fairy-mount notes
together in a way that looks pretty natural to me. I also just cut the
other duplicate endnote because it said the basically the same thing
that was in the longer endnote. So now I think everything reads much
smoother, and we don't need any explanatory text or citations.

Great work Christopher, thanks! If you'd like to work on something new,
check out our Wanted Ebooks list for moderate-difficulty productions.
Or, you can pitch something else that might interest you to the mailing
list.

> https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/11/mode/1up <https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/11/mode/1up>
> >
> https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/104/mode/1up <https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/104/mode/1up>
> >
> > And for "wake":
> >
> >
> https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/78/mode/1up <https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/78/mode/1up>
> >
> https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/117/mode/1up <https://archive.org/details/talesnovels01edgeiala/page/117/mode/1up>

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