[Next Project] Norwegian Folk Tales by Peter Christen Asbjørnsen and Jørgen Moe

[Chris Salt]

This seemed like a fun one. 180 pages of front matter and footnotes galore.

I've gone with the title from the wanted list but this is two separate books. I'm not sure if the intention is to combine them into a single volume? I'll list the source for both here and wait for a steer before creating the repo.

1. Popular Tales from the Norse

Text: https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/8933

Scans: https://archive.org/details/populartalesfrom00asbj/mode/2up

2. Tales from the Fjeld: A Second Series of Popular Tales

Text: https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/36385

Scans: https://archive.org/details/talesfromfjeldse00asbj/mode/2up

[Chris Salt]

Follow up question having looked at the structure of the front matter - is there an example in the SE archive of a book with a chaptered introduction? Would it just work the same as chapters in the body matter?

[Asher Smith]

Several of the George Bernard Shaw plays might be what you're looking for; Back to Methuselah has something like 29k words of preface. You can see it here - it's been kept as one file, but it has 49 divisions that appear within the table of contents. Generally, the habit seems to be to keep it as one file per preface or introduction, though I'm sure there is a length where you might have to split it for technical reasons to do with ereader RAM.

[Chris Salt]

Perfect! Thanks.

[Alex Cabal]

OK, sure.

Yes, combine the two volumes.

In volume 1 there's an appendinx of non-Norwegian stories. I only
skimmed it but it's not obvious why there are relevent at all. I would
cut them entirely.

I'd also cut the numbering from the stories themselves, they aren't
chapters per se.

I'd also move the preface in vol 2 to the front of the book, as "preface
to volume 2" with an endnote describing why this preface is here (since
it's no longer obvious that this one book used two be two separate ones.

Make sure that each story is <article epub:type="se:short-story"> and
not a <section>

Please send a link to your repo once you start!

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[Chris Salt]

Thanks Alex. The repo is here: https://github.com/Salty0ldSeadog/peter-christen-asbjornsen_jorgen-moe_norwegian-folk-tales_george-dasent

[Alex Cabal]

OK, Emma will manage with Robin reviewing.

> > Text: https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/8933 <https://gutenberg.org/
> ebooks/8933>
> > Scans: https://archive.org/details/populartalesfrom00asbj/
> mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/populartalesfrom00asbj/mode/2up>

> >
> > 2. Tales from the Fjeld: A Second Series of Popular Tales

> > Text: https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/36385 <https://gutenberg.org/
> ebooks/36385>
> > Scans: https://archive.org/details/talesfromfjeldse00asbj/
> mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/talesfromfjeldse00asbj/mode/2up>

> >
> >
> >
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[Chris Salt]

The PG text for Tales from the Fjeld looks like it comes from the 1874 edition, which contains some charming vignettes that look like George Dasent's work. There's a prelude to the first story and then periodically throughout, little narrative introductions to the next couple of stories - you can see this on the contents page for chapters like "The Haunted Mill, and the Honest Penny". 

The 1908 and later editions don't have these and just present the stories as a straightforward collection. I'm planning to follow the format of the 1908 in order to match the first volume but it means jettisoning a fair amount of text. Before I start hacking, can I get a confirmation that this is the right approach?  

Thanks

Chris

[Robin Whittleton]

If we join the volumes together but the second half doesn’t have the vignettes that would be a strange collection. Given that the later editions drop them, then yes, agreed, let’s just treat this as a collection of shorts rather than anything with more structure.

-Robin

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[Chris Salt]

Hi, I've been slowly working through the introduction and associated endnotes adding the semantic tagging. This paragraph in particular caused some headaches and I'm not 100% sure I've got it right.

Original:
<p>A man who had such a gift or greed was also called lycanthropus, a man-wolf or wolf-man, which term the Anglo-Saxons translated literally in Canute’s Laws <i>verevulf</i>, and the early English <i>werewolf</i>. In old French he was <i>loupgarou</i>, which means the same thing; except that <i>garou</i> means man-wolf in itself without the antecedent <i>loup</i>, so that, as Madden observes, the whole word is one of those reduplications of which we have an example in <i>lukewarm</i>. In Brittany he was <i>bleizgarou</i> and <i>denvleiz</i>, formed respectively from <i>bleiz</i>, wolf, and <i>den</i>, man; <i>garou</i> is merely a distorted form of <i>wer</i> or <i>vere</i>, man and <i>loup</i>. In later French the word became <i>waroul</i>, whence the Scotch <i>wrout</i>, <i>wurl</i>, and <i>worlin</i>.</p>

Updated:
<p>A man who had such a gift or greed was also called lycanthropus, a man-wolf or wolf-man, which term the Anglo-Saxons translated literally in Canute’s Laws <i xml:lang="ang">verevulf</i>, and the early English “werewolf”. In old French he was <i xml:lang="fr">loupgarou</i>, which means the same thing; except that <i xml:lang="fr">garou</i> means man-wolf in itself without the antecedent <i xml:lang="fr">loup</i>, so that, as Madden observes, the whole word is one of those reduplications of which we have an example in “lukewarm”. In Brittany he was <i xml:lang="br">bleizgarou</i> and <i xml:lang="br">denvleiz</i>, formed respectively from <i xml:lang="br">bleiz</i>, wolf, and <i xml:lang="br">den</i>, man; <i xml:lang="fr">garou</i> is merely a distorted form of <i xml:lang="fro">wer</i> or <i xml:lang="fro">vere</i>, man and <i xml:lang="fr">loup</i>. In later French the word became <i xml:lang="fr">waroul</i>, whence the Scotch <i xml:lang="sco">wrout</i>, <i xml:lang="sco">wurl</i>, and <i xml:lang="sco">worlin</i>.</p>

Is that how I should be marking it up? The language codes are as accurate as I can get them but I don't know if they're adding a lot of value.

[Emma Sweeney]

That looks correct.

Emma

[Chris Salt]

Thanks Emma. Next question, on punctuation around the placing of periods and commas within quotes (https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.7/8-typography#8.7.2)

Does this rule apply across the board? I was taught that they go inside quotes for dialog because it's punctuation of the spoken words, but that the example below would be correct because the quotes are used for a kind of emphasis. I'm happy to apply it as a blanket rule because there are a lot of them in this book, but wanted to check before I pull the trigger.

<p>How is it that the wandering Bechuanas got their story of “The Two Brothers”, the ground-work of which is the same as “The Machandelboom” and the “Milk-white Doo”, and where the incidents and even the words are almost the same?</p>

And something that I noticed while checking the above - the introduction refers to individual stories in the collection by title and number - eg "we still find it in these Norse Tales in 'The Three Princesses of Whiteland', No. xxvi." As there's no actual chapter numbering on the stories, should I retain it here?

[Emma Sweeney]

1. Periods and commas always precede closing quotation marks (CMoS 6.9).

2. Since you are cutting the numbering from the stories themselves, it makes sense to also remove the numbering in the introduction. Make sure this is done in an [Editorial] commit.

Emma