[Next Project] The Indiscreet Jewels / Les Bijoux Indiscrets by Denis Diderot

[bak]

Hi,

I love the Public Domain Day material and I wanted to say thank you to everyone who worked on it, it's an achievement.

Nowadays I have some time to undertake another book and I thought I would try for The Indiscreet Jewels, which is on the Moderate Wanted list. I can't let too long go by without wanting to do another one of these, even if I now *also* have a personal Wanted List on the back burner – like many other contributors, I suspect.

Gutenberg: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/54672

Scans at archive.org: https://archive.org/details/lesbijouxindisc01didegoog

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Indiscreet_Jewels

Thanks!

[Alex Cabal]

OK! Cut the illustrations. It's not clear who the translator is so go
with the publisher, R. Freeman. Also make sure the transcription (and
your page scans) include both volumes - the titlepage just says volume 1.

Please send a link to your repo once you get started. Thanks!

On 1/8/25 10:05 PM, 'bak' via Standard Ebooks wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I love the Public Domain Day material and I wanted to say thank you to
> everyone who worked on it, it's an achievement.
>
>
> Nowadays I have some time to undertake another book and I thought I

> would try for /The Indiscreet Jewels/, which is on the Moderate Wanted

> list. I can't let too long go by without wanting to do another one of
> these, even if I now *also* have a personal Wanted List on the back
> burner – like many other contributors, I suspect.
>
>
> Gutenberg: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/54672
> <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/54672>
> Scans at archive.org:
> https://archive.org/details/lesbijouxindisc01didegoog
> <https://archive.org/details/lesbijouxindisc01didegoog>
> Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Indiscreet_Jewels

> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Indiscreet_Jewels>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/57832180-6023-45B6-B889-CF5AC84D1B35%40picklefactory.org <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/57832180-6023-45B6-B889-CF5AC84D1B35%40picklefactory.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[bak]

OK! I found scans of the second volume here: https://archive.org/details/lesbijouxindisc00didegoog

The PG transcript says this:

[Transcriber's Note: Chapters I.-XXI. of the second volume of the

1749 publication have been renumbered XXXI.-LI. Illustrations weren't

present in the copy of the English edition we used, we added those from

the original French (at Gallica, Bibliothèque nationale de France.]

So I think I am good for source material.

The main weirdness I'm seeing is that dialog is structured in single paragraphs (blockquoted with quotation marks in the scans, even!) rather than separated into the usual paragraph/indent typography. And that some chapters want to have a subtitle (???) as well as a bridgehead. I will work through it with SeMOS and see what happens.

Repo: https://github.com/picklefactory/denis-diderot_the-indiscreet-jewels_r-freeman

Thanks

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[Alex Cabal]

Yes, that is common for the era. If one big paragraph contains multiple
speakers/dialogue, you can break them apart.

Emma will manage this with Lukas reviewing.

On 1/9/25 4:15 PM, 'bak' via Standard Ebooks wrote:
> OK! I found scans of the second volume here:
> https://archive.org/details/lesbijouxindisc00didegoog
> <https://archive.org/details/lesbijouxindisc00didegoog>
>
> The PG transcript says this:
>
> [Transcriber's Note: Chapters I.-XXI. of the second volume of the
> 1749 publication have been renumbered XXXI.-LI. Illustrations weren't
> present in the copy of the English edition we used, we added those from
> the original French (at Gallica, Bibliothèque nationale de France.]
>
> So I think I am good for source material.
>
> The main weirdness I'm seeing is that dialog is structured in single
> paragraphs (blockquoted with quotation marks in the scans, even!) rather
> than separated into the usual paragraph/indent typography. And that some
> chapters want to have a subtitle (???) as well as a bridgehead. I will
> work through it with SeMOS and see what happens.
>
> Repo:

> https://github.com/picklefactory/denis-diderot_the-indiscreet-jewels_r-freeman <https://github.com/picklefactory/denis-diderot_the-indiscreet-jewels_r-freeman>

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/B8FB3112-E553-4405-AB82-74B142AD11BF%40picklefactory.org <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/B8FB3112-E553-4405-AB82-74B142AD11BF%40picklefactory.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[bak]

Hi,

It's coming along!

I undertook to reformat the dialogue after the automatic typogrify step due to the profusion of quotation mark mismatches and em dashes. I would very much appreciate a look at the repo to see if I have gotten this step about right, though I know it is still going to take a further pass to remove all the dangling semicolons, add missing punctuation in spots where characters are exchanging single words or short phrases, and no doubt some other things. Ch. 41 and Ch. 48 would be good examples of places where extensive reformatting was needed, but this step has introduced changes into nearly every chapter. I hope it is OK to do it in this order.

At the moment I'm going through and looking at all the dash typography, and I realized I have a couple questions. Here goes.

1. Some dialogue just has a double em dash between sentences. This seems to serve as some kind of paragraph or topic change. Shall I delete these?

Example:

Dear Acaris, how beautiful thou appear’st to me!⁠⸺⁠Yes, those are thy eyes, thy smile, thy mouth.

2. The phrase `marquiss D’⁠⸺`, an omitted name.Two em dash or three em dash?

Thanks

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/9124f5ac-1139-4567-a23a-63e2ac04c0df%40standardebooks.org.

[Emma Sweeney]

Your last commit needs to be marked as [Editorial]. You will need to rebase and edit the commit message. Let me know if you need help with this.

Also, `se clean` is complaining because several files are missing closing </p> tags. I also see that there are some paragraphs that have been placed on new lines but are not in <p> elements. Make sure to mark them as paragraphs or `se clean` will erase your progress.

1. The two-em dashes should be regular em dashes. You can use `se interactive-replace "⸺" "—"  src/epub/text/*` to quickly replace these.

2. Keep the two-em dash.

Emma

[bak]

All fixed up and commit message changed.

Thanks!

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/bd2aaf2e-ef97-4e8c-8cba-8ec8e882c18cn%40googlegroups.com.

[bak]

Hi,

Still getting in some work and now doing some manual semantication.

Since this book was translated from French, there are quite a few words in the transcription italicized-as-foreign that are now in M-W and in English common usage. Looking at the scans shows a few mismatches, and I will try to group them:

Words now in M-W:

- abbé

- Beau Monde

- Embonpoint 

- tête-à-tête

- Grisette

- Encore

- kermes mineral

- Belle

- Agrémens

Intent: remove italics tags during manual semantication step

Words now in M-W, but scans and dictionary do not match:

- scan: Petits-Maitres, Petites-Maitresses

- M-W: petits-maîtres, petites-maîtresses

- scan: Belles-Lettres

- M-W: belles lettres

- scan: Basso relievo

- M-W: basso-relievo

Intent: Editorial commit for each entry to remove italicization and change to match M-W; leave capitals but change diacritics/hyphens

Words now in M-W that will be caught by se modernize-spelling:

- scan: deshabillé

- M-W: deshabille

- scan: à propos

- M-W: apropos

Intent: (a) remove italics during manual semantication step. (b) let the tool change spelling during modernize-spelling step, which is soon

Not in M-W:

- Petites Maisons

- Ritournelle

- Embarras

- Zeste

- bel air

- Pont-neuf

- Vaudeville polisson

From research, these last two are used as a descriptor of a particular style of song, as if I were to say "murder ballad" or "the blues".

Intent: add lang="fr" semantication during manual semantication step

I figured I might as well ask if I was on the right track before going through with it all.

Also, I would love any suggestions or guidance about how to semanticate or format this kind of thing:

From chapter 13:

The transcript seems to scatter em-dashes, but I don't think that really matches what is being shown here.

From chapter 38 / volume 2 chapter 8:

No idea here. This is in the middle of a lot of quoted dialogue. Perhaps <hr> separators or something?

And finally, from chapter 25:

I am supposing the italicized part is legal jargon and/or Latin, but should I semanticate ff. and C. as abbreviations? I don't have the context to know what the actual abbreviation here is, perhaps it's even an ironic omission like the dashes and such.

Thanks for the help, as always it is greatly appreciated–

[Emma Sweeney]

Words now in M-W:

All words listed except for Agrémens can have italics removed. Agrémens only appears in the MW Unabridged version.

Words now in M-W, but scans and dictionary do not match:

Sure.

Words now in M-W that will be caught by se modernize-spelling:

Correct.

Not in M-W:

Correct.

Chapter 13:

Use two-em dashes for partially obscured-words (SEMoS 8.7.7.9.4)

Chapter 38 / volume 2 chapter 8:

This looks like it would be placed in a <blockquote> element with the italics removed.

Chapter 25:

Tag ff. and C. as abbreviations. They do not need any additional semantics.

Emma

[bak]

I moved "Agrémens" to the "not in M-W" list. Thank you for the catch/explanation.

I was looking through the artdb and Ensor's Masquerade (https://standardebooks.org/artworks/james-ensor/masquerade) seems like it could be a fit for a cover image.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/82c2a66f-a3a8-4fd9-bb88-fda67c2e3be9n%40googlegroups.com.

[Emma Sweeney]

Can you make a cover mockup?

Emma

[bak]

I have at last gotten myself untangled on this and finished the manual semantication step. Finding a footnote halfway through this was pretty discouraging, I must remember to doublecheck for them in future!

Here's a cover mockup:

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/a658f9c4-206e-488d-9ec6-42a9b336ebe8n%40googlegroups.com.

[bak]

Also, I have found a corner case (?) in se modernize-spelling -- it wanted to subtract the space in `A propos` at the beginning of a sentence, but instead has a regex problem:

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "/Users/bak/.local/bin/se", line 8, in <module>

    sys.exit(main())

             ~~~~^^

  File "/Users/bak/.local/pipx/venvs/standardebooks/lib/python3.13/site-packages/se/main.py", line 81, in main

    sys.exit(getattr(module, command_function)(args.plain_output))

             ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  File "/Users/bak/.local/pipx/venvs/standardebooks/lib/python3.13/site-packages/se/commands/modernize_spelling.py", line 36, in modernize_spelling

    new_xhtml = se.spelling.modernize_spelling(xhtml)

  File "/Users/bak/.local/pipx/venvs/standardebooks/lib/python3.13/site-packages/se/spelling.py", line 153, in modernize_spelling

    xhtml = regex.sub(r"\b[Aa] propos\b", r"\1propos", xhtml) # a propos -> apropos

  File "/Users/bak/.local/pipx/venvs/standardebooks/lib/python3.13/site-packages/regex/regex.py", line 278, in sub

    return pat.sub(repl, string, count, pos, endpos, concurrent, timeout)

           ~~~~~~~^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

regex._regex_core.error: invalid group reference

I modified `A propos` to `À propos` and modernize-spelling had no problem deleting the space and removing the diacritic.

On Apr 23, 2025, at 15:14, 'bak' via Standard Ebooks <standar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I have at last gotten myself untangled on this and finished the manual semantication step. Finding a footnote halfway through this was pretty discouraging, I must remember to doublecheck for them in future!

Here's a cover mockup:

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/22C81EF0-48B0-497C-A6EB-8D800AC6C94A%40picklefactory.org.

[Emma Sweeney]

Looks good! I've updated the art db.

Emma

[Alex Cabal]

Thanks, this has been fixed in master!

On 4/23/25 5:58 PM, 'bak' via Standard Ebooks wrote:
> Also, I have found a corner case (?) in se modernize-spelling -- it
> wanted to subtract the space in `A propos` at the beginning of a
> sentence, but instead has a regex problem:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/Users/bak/.local/bin/se", line 8, in <module>
>     sys.exit(main())
>              ~~~~^^
>   File "/Users/bak/.local/pipx/venvs/standardebooks/lib/python3.13/
> site-packages/se/main.py", line 81, in main
>     sys.exit(getattr(module, command_function)(args.plain_output))
>              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   File "/Users/bak/.local/pipx/venvs/standardebooks/lib/python3.13/
> site-packages/se/commands/modernize_spelling.py", line 36, in
> modernize_spelling
>     new_xhtml = se.spelling.modernize_spelling(xhtml)
>   File "/Users/bak/.local/pipx/venvs/standardebooks/lib/python3.13/
> site-packages/se/spelling.py", line 153, in modernize_spelling

>     xhtml = regex.sub(r"\b[Aa] propos\b", r"\1propos", xhtml)# a propos

> -> apropos
>   File "/Users/bak/.local/pipx/venvs/standardebooks/lib/python3.13/
> site-packages/regex/regex.py", line 278, in sub
>     return pat.sub(repl, string, count, pos, endpos, concurrent, timeout)
>            ~~~~~~~^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> regex._regex_core.error: invalid group reference
>
> I modified `A propos` to `À propos` and modernize-spelling had no
> problem deleting the space and removing the diacritic.
>
>
>
>> On Apr 23, 2025, at 15:14, 'bak' via Standard Ebooks
>> <standar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have at last gotten myself untangled on this and finished the manual
>> semantication step. Finding a footnote halfway through this was pretty
>> discouraging, I must remember to doublecheck for them in future!
>>
>> Here's a cover mockup:
>>
>> <indiscreet-jewels-mockup.jpeg>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Mar 15, 2025, at 11:47, Emma Sweeney <sween...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Can you make a cover mockup?
>>>
>>> Emma
>>> On Saturday, March 15, 2025 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-4 picklefactory wrote:
>>>
>>> I moved "Agrémens" to the "not in M-W" list. Thank you for the
>>> catch/explanation.
>>>
>>> I was looking through the artdb and Ensor's Masquerade (https://

>>> standardebooks.org/artworks/james-ensor/masquerade <https://
>>> standardebooks.org/artworks/james-ensor/masquerade>) seems like

>>> it could be a fit for a cover image.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mar 11, 2025, at 19:15, Emma Sweeney <sween...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Words now in M-W:
>>>> All words listed except for Agrémens can have italics removed.
>>>> Agrémens only appears in the MW Unabridged version.
>>>>
>>>> Words now in M-W, but scans and dictionary do not match:
>>>> Sure.
>>>>
>>>> Words now in M-W that will be caught by se modernize-spelling:
>>>> Correct.
>>>>
>>>> Not in M-W:
>>>> Correct.
>>>>
>>>> Chapter 13:
>>>> Use two-em dashes for partially obscured-words (SEMoS 8.7.7.9.4

>>>> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.1/single-page#8.7.7.9.4>)

>>>> Screenshot 2025-03-03 at 21.38.33.png
>>>>
>>>> The transcript seems to scatter em-dashes, but I don't think
>>>> that really matches what is being shown here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From chapter 38 / volume 2 chapter 8:

>>>> Screenshot 2025-03-04 at 17.14.51.png
>>>> No idea here. This is in the middle of a lot of quoted
>>>> dialogue. Perhaps <hr> separators or something?
>>>>
>>>> And finally, from chapter 25:
>>>>

>>>>>>> <al...@standardebooks.org <http://standardebooks.org/

>>>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, that is common for the era. If one big paragraph
>>>>>>> contains multiple speakers/dialogue, you can break
>>>>>>> them apart.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Emma will manage this with Lukas reviewing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/9/25 4:15 PM, 'bak' via Standard Ebooks wrote:
>>>>>>>> OK! I found scans of the second volume here:https://
>>>>>>>> archive.org/details/lesbijouxindisc00didegoog
>>>>>>>> <https://archive.org/details/

>>>>>>>> lesbijouxindisc00didegoog><https://archive.org/
>>>>>>>> details/lesbijouxindisc00didegoog <https://

>>>>>>>> archive.org/details/lesbijouxindisc00didegoog>>
>>>>>>>> The PG transcript says this:
>>>>>>>> [Transcriber's Note: Chapters I.-XXI. of the second
>>>>>>>> volume of the
>>>>>>>> 1749 publication have been renumbered XXXI.-LI.
>>>>>>>> Illustrations weren't
>>>>>>>> present in the copy of the English edition we used,
>>>>>>>> we added those from
>>>>>>>> the original French (at Gallica, Bibliothèque
>>>>>>>> nationale de France.]
>>>>>>>> So I think I am good for source material.
>>>>>>>> The main weirdness I'm seeing is that dialog is
>>>>>>>> structured in single paragraphs (blockquoted with
>>>>>>>> quotation marks in the scans, even!) rather than
>>>>>>>> separated into the usual paragraph/indent
>>>>>>>> typography. And that some chapters want to have a
>>>>>>>> subtitle (???) as well as a bridgehead. I will work
>>>>>>>> through it with SeMOS and see what happens.
>>>>>>>> Repo:https://github.com/picklefactory/denis-
>>>>>>>> diderot_the-indiscreet-jewels_r-freeman <https://
>>>>>>>> github.com/picklefactory/denis-diderot_the-

>>>>>>>> indiscreet-jewels_r-freeman><https://github.com/
>>>>>>>> picklefactory/denis-diderot_the-indiscreet-jewels_r-
>>>>>>>> freeman <https://github.com/picklefactory/denis-

>>>>>>>> diderot_the-indiscreet-jewels_r-freeman>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2025, at 21:50, Alex Cabal

>>>>>>>>> <al...@standardebooks.org <http://

>>>>>>>>> standardebooks.org/>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> OK! Cut the illustrations. It's not clear who the
>>>>>>>>> translator is so go with the publisher, R. Freeman.
>>>>>>>>> Also make sure the transcription (and your page
>>>>>>>>> scans) include both volumes - the titlepage just
>>>>>>>>> says volume 1.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please send a link to your repo once you get
>>>>>>>>> started. Thanks!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1/8/25 10:05 PM, 'bak' via Standard Ebooks wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>> I love the Public Domain Day material and I wanted
>>>>>>>>>> to say thank you to everyone who worked on it,
>>>>>>>>>> it's an achievement.
>>>>>>>>>> Nowadays I have some time to undertake another
>>>>>>>>>> book and I thought I would try for /The Indiscreet
>>>>>>>>>> Jewels/, which is on the Moderate Wanted list. I
>>>>>>>>>> can't let too long go by without wanting to do
>>>>>>>>>> another one of these, even if I now *also* have a
>>>>>>>>>> personal Wanted List on the back burner – like
>>>>>>>>>> many other contributors, I suspect.
>>>>>>>>>> Gutenberg:https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/54672

>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/54672><https://
>>>>>>>>>> www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/54672 <https://
>>>>>>>>>> www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/54672>>
>>>>>>>>>> Scans atarchive.org <http://archive.org/>:https://
>>>>>>>>>> archive.org/details/lesbijouxindisc01didegoog
>>>>>>>>>> <https://archive.org/details/
>>>>>>>>>> lesbijouxindisc01didegoog><https://archive.org/
>>>>>>>>>> details/lesbijouxindisc01didegoog <https://
>>>>>>>>>> archive.org/details/lesbijouxindisc01didegoog>>
>>>>>>>>>> Wikipedia:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
>>>>>>>>>> The_Indiscreet_Jewels <https://en.wikipedia.org/
>>>>>>>>>> wiki/The_Indiscreet_Jewels><https://
>>>>>>>>>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Indiscreet_Jewels

>>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Indiscreet_Jewels>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are
>>>>>>>>>> subscribed to the Google Groups "Standard Ebooks"
>>>>>>>>>> group.
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving
>>>>>>>>>> emails from it, send an email

>>>>>>>>>> tostandardebook...@googlegroups.com <http://
>>>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com/
>>>>>>>>>> ><mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>> <http://googlegroups.com/>>.

>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visithttps://
>>>>>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>>>>>>>>>> standardebooks/57832180-6023-45B6-B889-
>>>>>>>>>> CF5AC84D1B35%40picklefactory.org <https://
>>>>>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>>>>>>>>>> standardebooks/57832180-6023-45B6-B889-

>>>>>>>>>> CF5AC84D1B35%40picklefactory.org><https://
>>>>>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>>>>>>>>>> standardebooks/57832180-6023-45B6-B889-
>>>>>>>>>> CF5AC84D1B35%40picklefactory.org?
>>>>>>>>>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://
>>>>>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>>>>>>>>>> standardebooks/57832180-6023-45B6-B889-
>>>>>>>>>> CF5AC84D1B35%40picklefactory.org?

>>>>>>>>>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com/>.

>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visithttps://

>>>>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/e942faeb-
>>>>>>>>> eb2d-48c5-ab6d-6461b82b99a6%40standardebooks.org
>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
>>>>>>>>> e942faeb-eb2d-48c5-
>>>>>>>>> ab6d-6461b82b99a6%40standardebooks.org>.

>>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com/>>.

>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visithttps://

>>>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/B8FB3112-
>>>>>>>> E553-4405-AB82-74B142AD11BF%40picklefactory.org
>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
>>>>>>>> B8FB3112-E553-4405-
>>>>>>>> AB82-74B142AD11BF%40picklefactory.org><https://
>>>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/B8FB3112-
>>>>>>>> E553-4405-AB82-74B142AD11BF%40picklefactory.org?
>>>>>>>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://
>>>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/B8FB3112-
>>>>>>>> E553-4405-AB82-74B142AD11BF%40picklefactory.org?

>>>>>>>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed
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>>>>>>> tostandardebook...@googlegroups.com <http://
>>>>>>> googlegroups.com/>.

>>>>>>> To view this discussion visithttps://
>>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/

>>>>>>> standardebooks/9124f5ac-1139-4567-
>>>>>>> a23a-63e2ac04c0df%40standardebooks.org <https://
>>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>>>>>>> standardebooks/9124f5ac-1139-4567-
>>>>>>> a23a-63e2ac04c0df%40standardebooks.org>.

>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to
>>>>>> the Google Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>>>>>> from it, send an email tostandardebook...@googlegroups.com.
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>>>>>> msgid/standardebooks/bd2aaf2e-
>>>>>> ef97-4e8c-8cba-8ec8e882c18cn%40googlegroups.com <https://
>>>>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/bd2aaf2e-
>>>>>> ef97-4e8c-8cba-8ec8e882c18cn%40googlegroups.com?

>>>>>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
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[bak]

OK, now moving into the proofreading phase of this. We shall see what strange and archaic typography and irregular spelling awaits. Thanks again for the help so far.

On Apr 23, 2025, at 17:00, Emma Sweeney <sween...@gmail.com> wrote:

Looks good! I've updated the art db.

Emma

On Wednesday, April 23, 2025 at 5:15:09 PM UTC-4 picklefactory wrote:

I have at last gotten myself untangled on this and finished the manual semantication step. Finding a footnote halfway through this was pretty discouraging, I must remember to doublecheck for them in future!

Here's a cover mockup:

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[bak]

OK, I have finished proofreading, and indeed there is quite a bit of irregular spelling and other weird typography to deal with.

There is in fact a masquerade in this book, so my choice of cover seems to have been apropos!

I am not sure what to do for all of the irregularities I found, but I have categorized them:

##### Irregular spelling always:

- belye -> belie

- appartment -> apartment

- ponyard -> poniard (also "poniarded", transitive verb, is present)

- drowziness -> drowsiness

- magpye -> magpie

- visir -> vizier

- rouzed -> roused

- highth -> height

- breland -> brelan

- achs -> aches

- head-ach -> headache

- mathematicks -> mathematics

- parcimony -> parsimony

- panicks -> panics

- sollicite -> solicit

- mosq -> mosque

- abby -> abbey

- pyed -> pied

- teizing -> teasing

- terrass -> terrace

- pontif -> pontiff

- scissers -> scissors

- snoar -> snore

- cruize -> cruise

- streights -> straits

- hightened -> heightened

- gally -> galley

- gally-slave -> galley-slave

- ambassy -> embassy

- chagrine -> chagrin

- Porcelaines -> porcelains

Intent: substitute the dictionary word

##### Irregular spelling occasionally:

- perswade -> persuade

- allarm -> alarm

- tydings -> tidings

- vertue -> virtue

- risq -> risk

- cryed -> cried

- poize -> poise

- stroak -> stroke

- inchanted, inchantment -> enchanted, enchantment

- fy -> fie

Intent: substitute the dictionary word

##### Irregular spelling to a dictionary word always:

- tare -> tear

- beggers -> beggars

- lier -> liar

Intent: substitute the dictionary word

##### Irregular spelling to a dictionary word occasionally:

- risqué -> risk

- lye -> lie

- dye -> die

Intent: substitute the dictionary word

##### Flagged words that are actually in M-W

* deperdition

* poule

* sopha

* slipt

* apprized, apprizing

* exordium

* maigre

* honestest

* smoak

* elogy

Intent: leave as-is

##### Should have possessive:

* virgins milk -> virgins’ milk

Intent: add apostrophe

##### Possessive should be plural

* pagoda’s

* anathema’s

* Seneschal’s

* aga’s

* opera’s

* drama’s

* busto’s

* relievo’s

* idea’s

* hero’s 

Intent: remove apostrophe, pluralize

##### Compound letters:

* phænomena, phænomenon -> phenomena, phenomenon

* chimæra -> chimera

* oeconomy -> economy

* Dæmon -> demon

Intent: substitute standard spelling

##### Typo:

* sweatmeats -> sweetmeats

* fastned -> fastened

* threatned -> threatened

* farewel -> farewell

Intent: substitute standard spelling

##### Unknown:

* respectuously

* governant

* splaw-footed

* good-manship

* infine

Intent: Leave as-is

I would love a thumbs up/down on these, I hope they can be dealt with categorically too.

Meanwhile, I work on the other issues for a bit. Closing in on the home stretch!

Thanks!!

[bak]

I should note also -- the words I categorized with "irregular occasionally" means that I found both irregular and regular spellings for that word when searching through the corpus.

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[Emma Sweeney]

Irregular spelling always:

- Modernize.

Irregular spelling occasionally:

- Modernize.

Irregular spelling to a dictionary word always:

- Modernize.

Irregular spelling to a dictionary word occasionally:

- Don't change risqué to risk. These do not sound alike.

- The rest can be modernized.

Flagged words that are actually in M-W:

- Change sopha to sofa. Sopha only appears in the MW Unabridged version and is marked as archaic.

- Maigre is a French word for skinny. Give it italics and a language tag. This usage does not match MW.

- Change smoak to smoke. Smoak only appears in the MW Unabridged version and is marked as archaic.

- The rest can be left as-is.

Should have possessive:

- Virgins milk should be changed to virgin's milk (singular possessive) instead.

Possessive should be plural:

- Seneschal’s should not be changed. It is a possessive noun. Ex. "...the great Seneschal’s lady..."

- The rest can be modernized.

Compound letters:

- Change dæmon to daemon instead.

- Change chimæra to chimaera instead.

- The rest can be modernized.

Typo:

- Fix these.

Unknown:

- Infine is an Italian word for finally/eventually. Give it italics and a language tag.

- The rest can be left as-is.

Emma

[bak]

- Don't change risqué to risk. These do not sound alike.

I know they aren't homophones... but having looked at the scans and transcription again, I think this is simply a translation error or more irregular spelling or something. It looks like the diacritic was added by modernize-spelling; they aren't there in the first commit's body.xhtml or in the scans.

1. I only risque a castle thereby.

2. If a person is not sufficiently acquainted with the qualities, the combination of which characterizes this or that species; or if he passes a hasty judgment, that this combination does or does not belong to this or that individual; he runs the risque of mistaking copper for gold, a paste for a brilliant, a calculator for a geometrician, a retailer of phrases for a wit, Crito for an honest man, and Pedima for a pretty woman, added the Sultana.

[The scan is not so great here.]

3. One runs no risque in doing good offices to persons of my country, replied the Monomatapan, pray behold.

4. Selim is too much my friend to expose him, for the sake of a castle, to the risque of being made unhappy the rest of his days.

Thank you for the pointers / catches on these, especially "virgins milk" being a singular possessive. Looking at my proofread, "Seneschal's" I think I included in error just because it was near "aga's".

I am planning to do one editorial commit per word change since most of them have multiple occurrences. Onwards and thanks!

On May 17, 2025, at 18:22, Emma Sweeney <sween...@gmail.com> wrote:

Irregular spelling always:

- Modernize.

Irregular spelling occasionally:

- Modernize.

Irregular spelling to a dictionary word always:

- Modernize.

Irregular spelling to a dictionary word occasionally:

- Don't change risqué to risk. These do not sound alike.

- The rest can be modernized.

Flagged words that are actually in M-W:

- Change sopha to sofa. Sopha only appears in the MW Unabridged version and is marked as archaic.

- Maigre is a French word for skinny. Give it italics and a language tag. This usage does not match MW.

- Change smoak to smoke. Smoak only appears in the MW Unabridged version and is marked as archaic.

- The rest can be left as-is.

Should have possessive:

- Virgins milk should be changed to (singular possessive) instead.

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[Brendan Fattig]

On 2025 May 18, at 21:22, 'bak' via Standard Ebooks <standar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

- Don't change risqué to risk. These do not sound alike.

I know they aren't homophones... but having looked at the scans and transcription again, I think this is simply a translation error or more irregular spelling or something. It looks like the diacritic was added by modernize-spelling; they aren't there in the first commit's body.xhtml or in the scans.

The OED does list “risque” (no diacritic) as a variant of risk.[1] (OED even claims “risqué” as not entering english until 1867 compared to “risque” as entering in the 1600s). 

The French “risque” is also different than the French “risqué”.[2][3] The former being pronounced as “risk” and meaning "risk". The latter meaning “risky”. 

I think this might make “risque” -> “risqué" a bad candidate for modernize-spelling. (i.e. you have to first answer: Is this a probably pre-1860s work and they intended “risk” or a newer work that missed the diacritic?)

[1] https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=risque

[2] https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/french-english/risque

[3] https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/french-english/risqu%C3%A9

[Emma Sweeney]

Not having the diacritic makes a huge difference! Yes, these should be changed to risk. Make sure the commit says "[Editorial] risque -> risk", not "[Editorial] risqué -> risk".

You should definitely have these word changes in individual commits for easier reviewing.

Emma

[bak]

Got it. I will make sure to do so.

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