H. G. Wells Short Fiction?
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David Grigg
Jan 24, 2019, 5:50:33 PM1/24/19
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I know that we've already published Wells' Tales of Time and Space , but he wrote a heap of short stories, some of which could be considered to be his best work.
I'm wondering if a single collection of all of his short fiction (perhaps incorporating Tales of Time and Space, perhaps not) would be a worthwhile project?
Alex Cabal
Jan 24, 2019, 5:52:26 PM1/24/19
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I think the first step is putting a list together, and which stories
appears where, and if there are any overlaps. Once we do that we can get
a better idea of how to go from there.
On 1/24/19 4:50 PM, David Grigg wrote:
> I know that we've already published Wells' /Tales of Time and Space/ ,
> but he wrote a *heap* of short stories, some of which could be
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appears where, and if there are any overlaps. Once we do that we can get
a better idea of how to go from there.
On 1/24/19 4:50 PM, David Grigg wrote:
> I know that we've already published Wells' /Tales of Time and Space/ ,
> but he wrote a *heap* of short stories, some of which could be
> considered to be his best work.
>
> I'm wondering if a single collection of all of his short fiction
> (perhaps incorporating Tales of Time and Space, perhaps not) would be a
> worthwhile project?
>
> --
>
> I'm wondering if a single collection of all of his short fiction
> (perhaps incorporating Tales of Time and Space, perhaps not) would be a
> worthwhile project?
>
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David Grigg
Jan 24, 2019, 5:54:58 PM1/24/19
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OK, will do.
David Grigg
Jan 24, 2019, 7:43:03 PM1/24/19
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It's been quite an interesting exercise. It seems that Project Gutenberg has some six collections of Wells' stories (plus a stand-alone story, The Red Room). There is a LOT of overlap. I calculate that there are 61 unique stories. Five of these are in "Tales of Time and Space". The fact of the overlaps does mean it would be silly for us to reproduce each of the individual collections because there would be many duplications. A single "Short Fiction" collection would however be quite a useful book.
Here's a spreadsheet which I worked up showing all of the individual stories and which collections they are in.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eNKBzObtATrI9NvdNo48eQaK7DVSb0HyeeIIVr_zGeo/edit?usp=sharing
What do you think?
Alex Cabal
Jan 25, 2019, 2:30:31 PM1/25/19
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Oh yeah almost all of those are overlaps. It would be crazy to produce
them as separate collections. So yes I think we should do a single short
fiction collection. In fact what you can do is just pull the git repo
for Tales of Space and Time and use that as a base to start from,
changing the metadata, title, etc. We can probably look for different
cover art too as that space theme likely won't be appropriate for a
general fiction collection.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/8f357430-e679-4353-8003-da72512323e5%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
them as separate collections. So yes I think we should do a single short
fiction collection. In fact what you can do is just pull the git repo
for Tales of Space and Time and use that as a base to start from,
changing the metadata, title, etc. We can probably look for different
cover art too as that space theme likely won't be appropriate for a
general fiction collection.
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David Grigg
Jan 25, 2019, 5:05:28 PM1/25/19
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Great. I'll list myself and Kenneth Williams who did Tales of Time and Space as producers.
I'm proposing to include the stories in rough order of original publication (Wikipedia has most of these dates).
Alex Cabal
Jan 25, 2019, 5:06:12 PM1/25/19
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Yes, good. Have fun!
David Grigg
Jan 27, 2019, 7:19:09 PM1/27/19
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I've actually changed my mind on this. I'm quite a long way through the process, just up to the point of proof-reading through the HTML.
BUT...
In doing this I read through H. G. Wells' long introduction to "The Country of Blind Men and Other Stories", which is well worth reading. In it, he explains that this collection is intended as the definitive collection of his short stories. It contains some 33 stories, by the way. This is what he says:
"The enterprise of Messrs. T. Nelson & Sons and the friendly accommodation of Messrs. Macmillan render possible this collection in one cover of all the short stories by me that I care for anyone to read again. Except for the two series of linked incidents that make up the bulk of the book called Tales of Space and Time, no short story of mine of the slightest merit is excluded from this volume."
Note what he says about "Tales of Space and Time". These longer stories are NOT included in "The Country of Blind Men".
The more I think about it, what I think would be best to do is this:
(1) Leave "Tales of Space and Time" as is in place in our catalog. It has a cohesive theme and has a nice and appropriate cover.
(2) Produce "The Country of Blind Men and Other Stories" as a separate production, complete with Wells' Introduction. There are only three stories which overlap with "Tales of Space and Time" and I think it's worthwhile to allow that duplication so each volume matches the original production.
(3) If we think it's worthwhile, produce "Short Fiction" with all of the stories which are NOT in either of the above collections. Of course, if we take Wells at his word, it will contain only stories he thinks are not 'of the slightest merit'; but I don't think that's quite right.
Now, because of the way I've gone about things, I think I'll have to do "The Country of Blind Men" right from scratch to get a clean repository history and to ensure that I have the correct versions of all of the stories in there, but that's OK. I could go ahead and do "Short Fiction" with my current repository just by deleting the stories which appear in ToS+T and TCoBM.
Do you agree?
On Saturday, 26 January 2019 09:06:12 UTC+11, Alex Cabal wrote:
Yes, good. Have fun!
David Grigg
Jan 27, 2019, 7:33:55 PM1/27/19
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It's "The Country of the Blind", not "of Blind Men" !
David Grigg
Jan 28, 2019, 6:21:15 AM1/28/19
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If we do go the way I suggest, how's this for a cover? It's The Blind Beggar by Jozef Laurent Dyckmans.
PD proof: a bit tiny, but it's definitely this picture: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo.31924020704064;view=1up;seq=334
What do you think?
Alex Cabal
Jan 28, 2019, 4:25:42 PM1/28/19
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Hmmm..... I'm not entirely sold on keeping these split up.
If we split them, then we would duplicate several short stories, which
we really want to avoid doing. I really don't want duplicate texts in
any of our ebooks because that doubles the maintenance burden and paves
the way for subtle synchronization errors between texts.
If Wells thought that _Country of the Blind_ contained every single one
of his short stories regardless of merit, but it in fact didn't, then it
was likely that the exclusions where merely an oversight, or related to
rights issues of the day. As it is, _Country_ already includes over half
of the stories from _Tales of Space and Time_. I get it that _Tales_ is
a themed collection, and what we can do is include those stories in a
larger _Short Fiction_ collection under a subsection. An example ToC of
what I'm talking about:
1. The Jilting of Jane
2. The Cone
...
7. Tales of Space and Time
7.1 The Crystal Egg
7.2 The Star
...
8. A Vision of Judgment
That way we include everything in one ebook, we maintain the themed
header of _Tales of Space and Time_, and we don't duplicate anything.
I would be on the fence about including Wells' intro. It is indeed very
interesting but a lot of what he says about the collection may not apply
to how we've done it... we'd include everything, and in chronological
order, while his intro explicitly states that a few stories are excluded
and that they are not arranged in strict chronological order.
The cover art you selected could still be appropriate if Country of the
Blind is one of the major short stories.
On 1/27/19 6:19 PM, David Grigg wrote:
> I've actually changed my mind on this. I'm quite a long way through the
> process, just up to the point of proof-reading through the HTML.
>
> BUT...
>
> In doing this I read through H. G. Wells' long introduction to "The
> Country of Blind Men and Other Stories", which is well worth reading. In
> it, he explains that this collection is intended as the definitive
> collection of his short stories. It contains some 33 stories, by the
> way. This is what he says:
>
> "The enterprise of Messrs. T. Nelson & Sons and the friendly
> accommodation of Messrs. Macmillan render possible this collection in
> one cover of all the short stories by me that I care for anyone to read
> again. Except for the two series of linked incidents that make up the
> bulk of the book called /Tales of Space and Time/, no short story of
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/9300abc6-d19e-4e37-8e0a-829bb97520c1%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
If we split them, then we would duplicate several short stories, which
we really want to avoid doing. I really don't want duplicate texts in
any of our ebooks because that doubles the maintenance burden and paves
the way for subtle synchronization errors between texts.
If Wells thought that _Country of the Blind_ contained every single one
of his short stories regardless of merit, but it in fact didn't, then it
was likely that the exclusions where merely an oversight, or related to
rights issues of the day. As it is, _Country_ already includes over half
of the stories from _Tales of Space and Time_. I get it that _Tales_ is
a themed collection, and what we can do is include those stories in a
larger _Short Fiction_ collection under a subsection. An example ToC of
what I'm talking about:
1. The Jilting of Jane
2. The Cone
...
7. Tales of Space and Time
7.1 The Crystal Egg
7.2 The Star
...
8. A Vision of Judgment
That way we include everything in one ebook, we maintain the themed
header of _Tales of Space and Time_, and we don't duplicate anything.
I would be on the fence about including Wells' intro. It is indeed very
interesting but a lot of what he says about the collection may not apply
to how we've done it... we'd include everything, and in chronological
order, while his intro explicitly states that a few stories are excluded
and that they are not arranged in strict chronological order.
The cover art you selected could still be appropriate if Country of the
Blind is one of the major short stories.
On 1/27/19 6:19 PM, David Grigg wrote:
> I've actually changed my mind on this. I'm quite a long way through the
> process, just up to the point of proof-reading through the HTML.
>
> BUT...
>
> In doing this I read through H. G. Wells' long introduction to "The
> Country of Blind Men and Other Stories", which is well worth reading. In
> it, he explains that this collection is intended as the definitive
> collection of his short stories. It contains some 33 stories, by the
> way. This is what he says:
>
> "The enterprise of Messrs. T. Nelson & Sons and the friendly
> accommodation of Messrs. Macmillan render possible this collection in
> one cover of all the short stories by me that I care for anyone to read
> again. Except for the two series of linked incidents that make up the
> --
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David Grigg
Jan 28, 2019, 6:21:39 PM1/28/19
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OK, will do. I think the cover still works: The Country of the Blind is an important story.
David Grigg
Jan 28, 2019, 6:22:30 PM1/28/19
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I'll leave out the Introduction as I agree it doesn't fit this expanded Short Fiction book.
Alex Cabal
Jan 28, 2019, 6:22:34 PM1/28/19
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What do you think about the intro?
On 1/28/19 5:21 PM, David Grigg wrote:
> OK, will do. I think the cover still works: The Country of the Blind is
> an important story.
>
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/58a9e829-5624-4ea5-ac43-a7922e529add%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
On 1/28/19 5:21 PM, David Grigg wrote:
> OK, will do. I think the cover still works: The Country of the Blind is
> an important story.
>
> --
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Alex Cabal
Jan 28, 2019, 6:22:59 PM1/28/19
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OK!
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Alex Cabal
Jan 28, 2019, 6:29:08 PM1/28/19
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Did HG Wells ever have a portrait painted?
On 1/28/19 5:21 PM, David Grigg wrote:
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On 1/28/19 5:21 PM, David Grigg wrote:
> OK, will do. I think the cover still works: The Country of the Blind is
> an important story.
>
> an important story.
>
> --
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David Grigg
Jan 28, 2019, 7:21:31 PM1/28/19
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There are lots of photographs, and a couple of paintings post-1924, but I can't find anything PD.
David Grigg
Jan 28, 2019, 7:26:09 PM1/28/19
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I'll keep thinking about cover art, though the stories are so diverse, ranging from science fiction through ghost stories to domestic romance, that it's hard to find anything which covers the gamut.
David Grigg
Jan 29, 2019, 2:34:03 AM1/29/19
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What about this? I know we don't want to over-use the Met, but this is a great and very high-resolution image. It's "In the Laboratory" by Henry Alexander. There are several stories about scientists in the collection, laboratories, etc.
Here's the page in the Met with the PD tag: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/10062
David Grigg
Jan 29, 2019, 2:35:31 AM1/29/19
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I'll add "The Blind Beggar" to my PD image resource: https://rightword.com.au/gallery .
David Grigg
Jan 29, 2019, 2:44:09 AM1/29/19
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Actually, there's enough resolution in this image to crop in this far with no up-scaling required:
Robin Whittleton
Jan 29, 2019, 2:45:57 AM1/29/19
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Love that cover!
Actually, there's enough resolution in this image to crop in this far with no up-scaling required:
<The cover for the Standard Ebooks edition of Short Fiction, by H. G. Wells-29184245.jpg>
On Tuesday, 29 January 2019 18:35:31 UTC+11, David Grigg wrote:I'll add "The Blind Beggar" to my PD image resource: https://rightword.com.au/gallery .
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<The cover for the Standard Ebooks edition of Short Fiction, by H. G. Wells-29184245.jpg>
Alex Cabal
Jan 29, 2019, 12:09:00 PM1/29/19
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Looks great! Reminiscent of the one I used for Jekyll and Hyde.
On 1/29/19 1:44 AM, David Grigg wrote:
> Actually, there's enough resolution in this image to crop in this far
> with no up-scaling required:
>
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/37b96b39-420c-4cd1-96bd-17e815f46e0d%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
On 1/29/19 1:44 AM, David Grigg wrote:
> Actually, there's enough resolution in this image to crop in this far
> with no up-scaling required:
>
> The cover for the Standard Ebooks edition of Short Fiction, by H. G.
> Wells-29184245.jpg
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, 29 January 2019 18:35:31 UTC+11, David Grigg wrote:
>
> I'll add "The Blind Beggar" to my PD image resource:
> https://rightword.com.au/gallery <https://rightword.com.au/gallery> .
> Wells-29184245.jpg
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, 29 January 2019 18:35:31 UTC+11, David Grigg wrote:
>
> I'll add "The Blind Beggar" to my PD image resource:
>
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David Grigg
Feb 10, 2019, 10:21:12 PM2/10/19
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I imagine we don't generally censor the works we produce, but I have to admit I'm a bit disturbed by the number of instances of "the N-word" in these stories, sometimes in a very derogatory context. Do I just leave them?
Alex Cabal
Feb 10, 2019, 10:23:48 PM2/10/19
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Yes. We're not in the business of Bowdlerizing.
Robin Whittleton
Feb 11, 2019, 12:09:08 AM2/11/19
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Same in the latest Arsène Lupin. I was planning to add a trigger warning in the description like with Fu Manchu. It’s a bit of an occupational hazard tbh, the Good Soldier was a great novel with three pages of extreme racism to advance one exceedingly minor plot point, sigh.
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Alex Cabal
Feb 11, 2019, 1:27:59 PM2/11/19
to standar...@googlegroups.com
To be fair, the description in Fu Manchu isn't a trigger warning, but an
attempt at a historical explanation of the text's background, since
modern readers might be surprised by it. In general I don't think we
want to be in the business of trigger warnings either, for the same
reason libraries don't put G/PG/R ratings on their books.
attempt at a historical explanation of the text's background, since
modern readers might be surprised by it. In general I don't think we
want to be in the business of trigger warnings either, for the same
reason libraries don't put G/PG/R ratings on their books.
Robin Whittleton
Feb 11, 2019, 2:32:26 PM2/11/19
to standar...@googlegroups.com
“Trigger warning” has become a politically loaded word, but I think it’s reasonable to want to know if a piece of media is going to have aged particularly badly. Or rather: I’m a middle-aged white male from a privileged background, and history is full of people like me not paying enough attention to the problems that other people face. I’m not going to amend the text, but when the only black character in the whole Arsène Lupin series is presented as a spectacularly ugly yet massively strong freak of a man with no mental ability apart from an undying loyalty to his ‘masters’ (the book’s word, not mine) then it’s a little obvious that M. Leblanc had some opinions that aren’t exactly current. If an incidental half a sentence in a blurb lets the potential reader know in advance what to expect then I think that’s probably a good thing.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/086fc2ed-1c3e-2a03-de23-2f039807d7dd%40standardebooks.org.
Alex Cabal
Feb 11, 2019, 3:15:20 PM2/11/19
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I think if there is an interesting historical perspective to explain for
this particular piece then OK. In Fu Manchu the "yellow peril" of the
time was basically the entire reason the book was written--without that
historical context the entire point of the book would be lost on the
modern reader. In fact if anyone views that summary as a kind of trigger
warning then I am more than happy to revise the summary to be more about
the history and less about the offensiveness.
But if we're talking about a *content warning* (vs. a historical
explanation for a central issue in the text), for a minor(?)
character/subplot in a very big series, then does it make sense to
enshrine a trigger warning, as if our readers are fragile or couldn't
handle it?
Then we'd have to put content warnings on a lot of stuff, Uncle Tom's
Cabin, lots of Twain, etc. Why not Taras Bulba, which featured a
grotesquely racist caricature of a Jew as a recurring character? Or Of
Human Bondage or Madame Bovary, where deeply depressed characters commit
suicide?
At the stage of mere trigger/content warnings we as producers are
imposing views on the works before the person has even read them,
perhaps convincing them not to read it for fear of offense. And we open
ourselves to pressure from groups who these days are increasingly more
offended about everything. This is why libraries don't do that; why you
don't have a "rated R" section in the library. (And in fact why
libraries have "banned book weeks" and so on, to take the "watch out
this book might offend you" concept to its most extreme conclusion.)
This is also why we don't Bowdlerize. (I.e. replace "the n word" out of
fear that our modern readers might be offended.) After all
"Bowdlerizing" is a derogatory term in the literary world for good reason.
No, I don't think trigger warnings are the right approach. The reader
must engage with a text on their own terms without our prejudgment. The
only way to prevent us (a project that often hosts important texts
dealing with difficult issues) from falling off the treadmill that's
going faster and faster and faster, is to not get on in the first place.
this particular piece then OK. In Fu Manchu the "yellow peril" of the
time was basically the entire reason the book was written--without that
historical context the entire point of the book would be lost on the
modern reader. In fact if anyone views that summary as a kind of trigger
warning then I am more than happy to revise the summary to be more about
the history and less about the offensiveness.
But if we're talking about a *content warning* (vs. a historical
explanation for a central issue in the text), for a minor(?)
character/subplot in a very big series, then does it make sense to
enshrine a trigger warning, as if our readers are fragile or couldn't
handle it?
Then we'd have to put content warnings on a lot of stuff, Uncle Tom's
Cabin, lots of Twain, etc. Why not Taras Bulba, which featured a
grotesquely racist caricature of a Jew as a recurring character? Or Of
Human Bondage or Madame Bovary, where deeply depressed characters commit
suicide?
At the stage of mere trigger/content warnings we as producers are
imposing views on the works before the person has even read them,
perhaps convincing them not to read it for fear of offense. And we open
ourselves to pressure from groups who these days are increasingly more
offended about everything. This is why libraries don't do that; why you
don't have a "rated R" section in the library. (And in fact why
libraries have "banned book weeks" and so on, to take the "watch out
this book might offend you" concept to its most extreme conclusion.)
This is also why we don't Bowdlerize. (I.e. replace "the n word" out of
fear that our modern readers might be offended.) After all
"Bowdlerizing" is a derogatory term in the literary world for good reason.
No, I don't think trigger warnings are the right approach. The reader
must engage with a text on their own terms without our prejudgment. The
only way to prevent us (a project that often hosts important texts
dealing with difficult issues) from falling off the treadmill that's
going faster and faster and faster, is to not get on in the first place.
Alex Cabal
Feb 11, 2019, 3:24:38 PM2/11/19
to standar...@googlegroups.com
Maybe it would be helpful if I put it this way: the long description is,
and always was, meant to be a brief Enyclopedia-like entry about the
work. Think "Wikipedia entry."
For a work of literature, would you visit its Wikipedia page and expect
to see at the very top "Trigger warning: this book contains racism and
suicide?" Definitely not.
But, if the work dealt with difficult and complex racial issues as a
central theme of the book, like Uncle Tom's Cabin, then yes, you might
expect a Wikipedia article to talk about those issues from a historical
perspective, and how those issues factor into the work as a whole. (But
not phrased as a "content warning".) That's reasonable and expected.
I think that's how we should approach these long descriptions.
(I should probably have just written this to begin with, as I think this
is much clearer than the other long email I just sent :) )
and always was, meant to be a brief Enyclopedia-like entry about the
work. Think "Wikipedia entry."
For a work of literature, would you visit its Wikipedia page and expect
to see at the very top "Trigger warning: this book contains racism and
suicide?" Definitely not.
But, if the work dealt with difficult and complex racial issues as a
central theme of the book, like Uncle Tom's Cabin, then yes, you might
expect a Wikipedia article to talk about those issues from a historical
perspective, and how those issues factor into the work as a whole. (But
not phrased as a "content warning".) That's reasonable and expected.
I think that's how we should approach these long descriptions.
(I should probably have just written this to begin with, as I think this
is much clearer than the other long email I just sent :) )
Robin Whittleton
Feb 11, 2019, 4:01:26 PM2/11/19
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Yeah, that is clearer. I certainly don’t agree with censoring (I decensored the US transcript of the Thomas Hardy I did to replace d—n with damn, etc). I still don’t think that a mild hint at problematic content is the wrong approach though. For example, a BBC radio series I was listening to was describe as “set in the 60s and with prevailing attitudes to match”, which is hardly more than Wikipedia level description. But you project, your rules of course.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/26b3ed58-b4e4-eb29-a072-1d606eb2a3f7%40standardebooks.org.
Alex Cabal
Feb 11, 2019, 4:17:16 PM2/11/19
to standar...@googlegroups.com
Yes, and my counterpoint would be that even though the description is
short, the BBC is not an encyclopedia but an editorial organization :)
short, the BBC is not an encyclopedia but an editorial organization :)
David Grigg
Feb 11, 2019, 10:11:08 PM2/11/19
to Standard Ebooks
OK, I think this is now ready for review. It was a LOT more work than I was anticipating, but I think I got there in the end.
One issue for your consideration. Kenneth Williams had done a lot of semantic tagging in "Tales of Time and Space", including tagging z3998:nationality and z3998:place.
In order to be consistent and not undo his work, I tried to do the same throughout the other stories. But 'place' in particular is a bit tricky—what exactly constitutes a place? A country? A city? A region like a park within a city? A street? I've erred on the side of tagging only the larger divisions. But maybe we want to take all of this out, so I organised to remove them all and then reintroduce them in a separate [Editorial] commit which can be reverted simply.
I certainly don't plan on doing this level of semantic tagging in my own future productions. What do you think?
Here's the repository:
Alex Cabal
Feb 11, 2019, 10:22:52 PM2/11/19
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Well with semantics it's possible to go down a really deep rabbit hole.
Personally my general rule is that if there is a specific tag available
for what we're trying to do (like <abbr>), or if we're putting a tag
around it anyway (like <i>) then use semantics. If we wouldn't otherwise
put a tag around it, then it's OK to leave it be. That's not to say that
you can't do it, like Kenneth did, but it's a lot of work and as you
noted there's a lot of fuzziness and opportunity to go bonkers with tagging.
On 2/11/19 9:11 PM, David Grigg wrote:
> OK, I think this is now ready for review. It was a LOT more work than I
> was anticipating, but I think I got there in the end.
>
> One issue for your consideration. Kenneth Williams had done a lot of
> semantic tagging in "Tales of Time and Space", including tagging
> *z3998:nationality* and *z3998:place*.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cb4c7062-5e7a-43b0-bf00-58bf9f6ba491%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
Personally my general rule is that if there is a specific tag available
for what we're trying to do (like <abbr>), or if we're putting a tag
around it anyway (like <i>) then use semantics. If we wouldn't otherwise
put a tag around it, then it's OK to leave it be. That's not to say that
you can't do it, like Kenneth did, but it's a lot of work and as you
noted there's a lot of fuzziness and opportunity to go bonkers with tagging.
On 2/11/19 9:11 PM, David Grigg wrote:
> OK, I think this is now ready for review. It was a LOT more work than I
> was anticipating, but I think I got there in the end.
>
> One issue for your consideration. Kenneth Williams had done a lot of
> semantic tagging in "Tales of Time and Space", including tagging
>
> In order to be consistent and not undo his work, I tried to do the same
> throughout the other stories. But 'place' in particular is a bit
> tricky—what exactly constitutes a place? A country? A city? A region
> like a park within a city? A street? I've erred on the side of tagging
> only the larger divisions. But maybe we want to take all of this out, so
> I organised to remove them all and then reintroduce them in a separate
> [Editorial] commit which can be reverted simply.
>
> I certainly don't plan on doing this level of semantic tagging in my own
> future productions. What do you think?
>
> Here's the repository:
>
> https://github.com/drgrigg/h-g-wells_short-fiction.git
>
>
> In order to be consistent and not undo his work, I tried to do the same
> throughout the other stories. But 'place' in particular is a bit
> tricky—what exactly constitutes a place? A country? A city? A region
> like a park within a city? A street? I've erred on the side of tagging
> only the larger divisions. But maybe we want to take all of this out, so
> I organised to remove them all and then reintroduce them in a separate
> [Editorial] commit which can be reverted simply.
>
> I certainly don't plan on doing this level of semantic tagging in my own
> future productions. What do you think?
>
> Here's the repository:
>
> https://github.com/drgrigg/h-g-wells_short-fiction.git
>
>
> --
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> To view this discussion on the web visit
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cb4c7062-5e7a-43b0-bf00-58bf9f6ba491%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
Alex Cabal
Feb 12, 2019, 5:00:21 PM2/12/19
to standar...@googlegroups.com
lint is complaining, looks like there is a typo in the ToC. Can you take
care of that?
On 2/11/19 9:11 PM, David Grigg wrote:
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cb4c7062-5e7a-43b0-bf00-58bf9f6ba491%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
care of that?
On 2/11/19 9:11 PM, David Grigg wrote:
> OK, I think this is now ready for review. It was a LOT more work than I
> was anticipating, but I think I got there in the end.
>
> One issue for your consideration. Kenneth Williams had done a lot of
> semantic tagging in "Tales of Time and Space", including tagging
> was anticipating, but I think I got there in the end.
>
> One issue for your consideration. Kenneth Williams had done a lot of
> semantic tagging in "Tales of Time and Space", including tagging
> *z3998:nationality* and *z3998:place*.
>
>
> In order to be consistent and not undo his work, I tried to do the same
> throughout the other stories. But 'place' in particular is a bit
> tricky—what exactly constitutes a place? A country? A city? A region
> like a park within a city? A street? I've erred on the side of tagging
> only the larger divisions. But maybe we want to take all of this out, so
> I organised to remove them all and then reintroduce them in a separate
> [Editorial] commit which can be reverted simply.
>
> I certainly don't plan on doing this level of semantic tagging in my own
> future productions. What do you think?
>
> Here's the repository:
>
> https://github.com/drgrigg/h-g-wells_short-fiction.git
>
>
> throughout the other stories. But 'place' in particular is a bit
> tricky—what exactly constitutes a place? A country? A city? A region
> like a park within a city? A street? I've erred on the side of tagging
> only the larger divisions. But maybe we want to take all of this out, so
> I organised to remove them all and then reintroduce them in a separate
> [Editorial] commit which can be reverted simply.
>
> I certainly don't plan on doing this level of semantic tagging in my own
> future productions. What do you think?
>
> Here's the repository:
>
> https://github.com/drgrigg/h-g-wells_short-fiction.git
>
>
> --
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> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
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> an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
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> To view this discussion on the web visit
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> To view this discussion on the web visit
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cb4c7062-5e7a-43b0-bf00-58bf9f6ba491%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
David Grigg
Feb 12, 2019, 6:13:53 PM2/12/19
to Standard Ebooks
Sorry. A had made a last minute change to the ToC after last running lint. Should be fixed now.
I'll add a final lint step to my checklist.
Alex Cabal
Feb 14, 2019, 5:29:51 PM2/14/19
to standar...@googlegroups.com
Re. Tales of Space and Time, did you decide to leave those stories
ungrouped in the collection? I think I recall discussing this and one
option was to simply group them under their own <h> level header so that
they would appear as a distinct subset within all the other stories.
On 2/11/19 9:11 PM, David Grigg wrote:
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cb4c7062-5e7a-43b0-bf00-58bf9f6ba491%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
ungrouped in the collection? I think I recall discussing this and one
option was to simply group them under their own <h> level header so that
they would appear as a distinct subset within all the other stories.
On 2/11/19 9:11 PM, David Grigg wrote:
> OK, I think this is now ready for review. It was a LOT more work than I
> was anticipating, but I think I got there in the end.
>
> One issue for your consideration. Kenneth Williams had done a lot of
> semantic tagging in "Tales of Time and Space", including tagging
> was anticipating, but I think I got there in the end.
>
> One issue for your consideration. Kenneth Williams had done a lot of
> semantic tagging in "Tales of Time and Space", including tagging
> *z3998:nationality* and *z3998:place*.
>
>
> In order to be consistent and not undo his work, I tried to do the same
> throughout the other stories. But 'place' in particular is a bit
> tricky—what exactly constitutes a place? A country? A city? A region
> like a park within a city? A street? I've erred on the side of tagging
> only the larger divisions. But maybe we want to take all of this out, so
> I organised to remove them all and then reintroduce them in a separate
> [Editorial] commit which can be reverted simply.
>
> I certainly don't plan on doing this level of semantic tagging in my own
> future productions. What do you think?
>
> Here's the repository:
>
> https://github.com/drgrigg/h-g-wells_short-fiction.git
>
>
> throughout the other stories. But 'place' in particular is a bit
> tricky—what exactly constitutes a place? A country? A city? A region
> like a park within a city? A street? I've erred on the side of tagging
> only the larger divisions. But maybe we want to take all of this out, so
> I organised to remove them all and then reintroduce them in a separate
> [Editorial] commit which can be reverted simply.
>
> I certainly don't plan on doing this level of semantic tagging in my own
> future productions. What do you think?
>
> Here's the repository:
>
> https://github.com/drgrigg/h-g-wells_short-fiction.git
>
>
> --
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> To view this discussion on the web visit
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> To view this discussion on the web visit
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cb4c7062-5e7a-43b0-bf00-58bf9f6ba491%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
David Grigg
Feb 14, 2019, 5:33:31 PM2/14/19
to Standard Ebooks
No, I decided against it, there wasn't a compelling reason to group those particular stories. The only concession I made was to break the chronological order slightly to put the two linked stories "A Story of the Stone Age" and "A Story of the Days to Come" next to each other.
Alex Cabal
Feb 15, 2019, 4:18:22 PM2/15/19
to standar...@googlegroups.com
OK, everything looks good. Thanks David!
David Grigg
Feb 15, 2019, 4:55:05 PM2/15/19
to Standard Ebooks
Wow, I hadn't done a word count. Nearly 300,000 words! No wonder it seemed to take forever to read through.
Asher Smith
Aug 17, 2025, 7:23:12 AMAug 17
to Standard Ebooks
Someone brought up on Wikipedia that this edition is missing The Land Ironclads. David's research spreadsheet isn't accessible to me - does anybody still have that? I'm wondering if that was intentionally omitted or if it should be added. I'm also wondering if there are some stories that have come into the public domain in the intervening six years since this was released.
Alex Cabal
Aug 17, 2025, 5:29:41 PMAug 17
to standar...@googlegroups.com
I don't have a copy, no, and David isn't active on the list anymore.
It's possible he missed it or couldn't find a transcription. If it's
less than 40k words then you could do a PR for it.
Since the spreadsheet is gone it would be helpful to create a new one.
Shouldn't be *too* hard since we already have the ebook out.
On 8/17/25 6:23 AM, Asher Smith wrote:
> Someone brought up on Wikipedia that this edition is missing The Land
> Ironclads <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Land_Ironclads>. David's
> research spreadsheet <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/
> d/1eNKBzObtATrI9NvdNo48eQaK7DVSb0HyeeIIVr_zGeo/edit?usp=sharing> isn't
> standardebooks/aff66585-84c9-4fe7-b216-4130adabf85en%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/aff66585-84c9-4fe7-
> b216-4130adabf85en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
It's possible he missed it or couldn't find a transcription. If it's
less than 40k words then you could do a PR for it.
Since the spreadsheet is gone it would be helpful to create a new one.
Shouldn't be *too* hard since we already have the ebook out.
On 8/17/25 6:23 AM, Asher Smith wrote:
> Someone brought up on Wikipedia that this edition is missing The Land
> research spreadsheet <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/
> d/1eNKBzObtATrI9NvdNo48eQaK7DVSb0HyeeIIVr_zGeo/edit?usp=sharing> isn't
> accessible to me - does anybody still have that? I'm wondering if that
> was intentionally omitted or if it should be added. I'm also wondering
> if there are some stories that have come into the public domain in the
> intervening six years since this was released.
>
> On Friday, February 15, 2019 at 9:55:05 PM UTC david...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Wow, I hadn't done a word count. Nearly 300,000 words! No wonder it
> seemed to take forever to read through.
>
> was intentionally omitted or if it should be added. I'm also wondering
> if there are some stories that have come into the public domain in the
> intervening six years since this was released.
>
> On Friday, February 15, 2019 at 9:55:05 PM UTC david...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Wow, I hadn't done a word count. Nearly 300,000 words! No wonder it
> seemed to take forever to read through.
>
> --
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/aff66585-84c9-4fe7-
> b216-4130adabf85en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
Asher Smith
Aug 17, 2025, 6:01:37 PMAug 17
to Standard Ebooks
It's about 8.5k, so definitely in short story range. I've not added to a preexisting omnibus before - anything I need to keep in mind? I'd assume that I can mimic the formatting of some of the other multi-part stories re:subchapters, add some miscellanea to the content.opf (transcribers, me as producer, links to whatever scans and transcriptions I find) and the colophon, and then leave things like word count to be updated by the publishing script?
Vince
Aug 17, 2025, 6:57:40 PMAug 17
to Standard Ebooks
We would need a dated scan, I believe, to show that it’s PD. The Hathi one works fine for me, but IA also has some of the Strand back issues, including the one that has this story.
Asher Smith
Aug 17, 2025, 7:32:58 PMAug 17
to Standard Ebooks
Perfect. I've added that in and submitted a PR. If I have time, I'll look at a research spreadsheet generally, because I suspect there may be more stories not included.
Asher Smith
Aug 20, 2025, 10:06:11 AMAug 20
to Standard Ebooks
David kindly gave me access to his spreadsheet, which I've copied here. Also, the person who brought this to my attention on Wikipedia pointed me towards this list of Wells' 89 published short stories, which helpfully has put them in a publication order we might want to replicate.
The short version is that there are probably 30 more stories that need inclusion one way or another, and as they aren't present in PGUS's collections, we'll have to get scans and transcriptions for all of them individually. One of these is collected in Select Conversations with an Uncle, which might be approached as its own publication, given that the dozen stories within are linked to each other. The others seem to be collected variously around the internet, but I suspect that pulling together scans is going to be a pain as they seem not to have been collected in volumes before the PD cutoff.
Quite frankly, I'm not sure I have the inclination (and I definitely do not have the time in the coming month or two) to proofread some hundred thousand or more words of short stories that I don't particularly enjoy, so I would be very happy to hand this over. I could definitely do a couple of them if there were a group effort to pull them together, but thirty is too many for me to commit to.
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