[First Project] The Lais of Marie de France

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mark.w...@gmail.com

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May 29, 2023, 3:23:25 PMMay 29

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Would there be interest in an edition of The Lais of Marie de France? They are medieval fairy tales of knights, chivalry, and the like. It appears to be within the boundaries of the "Collections Policy" but perhaps too obscure/off topic for SE.

I was going to make a copy for my own use and thought I'd see if the extra mile to make an SE-compliant version was of interest.

It is about ~75,000 words.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lais_of_Marie_de_France

Gutenberg: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/11417

Page scans: https://archive.org/details/laysofmariedefra00mari (1911 translation)

Alex Cabal

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May 30, 2023, 1:56:44 PMMay 30

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Yes, this is something we would accept. However the intro makes it clear
that this book is a collection of various French medieval stories, not
just Marie de France's lais. So, if we're going to call it "Lais" by
Marie de France, we should trim anything that she did not write.

The page scans of the later edition contain a note by Elizabeth A
Francis that say that the first 12 lais are by Marie de France. The rest
seem to either not be attributable to Marie, or are stories by someone
else.

So if we're going to do this book, it appears like it should only
contain the first 12 lais in the PG transcription.

The intro is interesting and we can keep it, but it refers to some of
the material we would be removing. So, you could either remove those
references entirely, or, if it wouldn't make sense to do that, add
endnotes saying we removed them for this SE edition.

Make sure to read the Standard Ebooks Manual of Style before starting,
as you won't know what to fix if you haven't read the standards. In
particular, please closely review the semantics, high level patterns,
and typography sections:

https://standardebooks.org/manual

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography

The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:

https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step

Please email often if you have any questions at all. Our standards are
well-established so there is probably already a standard for formatting
whatever problem you've encountered.

When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github repository so
that I can mark you as having started.

Have fun! :)

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Mark Watkins

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May 30, 2023, 4:55:28 PMMay 30

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Awesome. Your point about only including works which are Marie's makes sense, assuming a more 'single-author' approach for the SE collection is preferred.

(I suppose it could be produced as a multi-author 'medieval stories' collection if there was a preference for that, but I'm happy to run with it as just the 12 stories)

Will report back when a repo is going.

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mark.w...@gmail.com

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May 30, 2023, 9:32:29 PMMay 30

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There is a repo at https://github.com/viking2917/marie-de-france_lais_eugene-mason

The basic steps have been completed in a first draft and I am proofreading.

Alex Cabal

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May 31, 2023, 12:39:51 PMMay 31

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Lukas, can you manage this with Emma reviewing?

> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics
> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics>
>
> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns>
>
> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography

> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography>
>
> The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:
>

> https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step>

>
> --
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Lukas Bystricky

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May 31, 2023, 1:34:04 PMMay 31

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I can manage.

Emma Sweeney

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May 31, 2023, 1:40:19 PMMay 31

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I can review.

Emma

Mark Watkins

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May 31, 2023, 9:57:29 PMMay 31

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Hi Lukas, Emma, nice to "meet" you both, and thank you for your help.

So far as I can tell, the production is ready for review, excepting the selection of cover art, discussed below.

In addition to the standard production tasks, I have removed the material Alex suggested from the text, and lightly altered the introduction to omit references to those works (those changes and other editorial changes have the [Editorial] in the commit message).

For easy reference the repo is here: https://github.com/viking2917/marie-de-france_lais_eugene-mason

As for cover art, I'd like to suggest The Shadow by Edmund Blair Leighton. It is thematically appropriate, an oil painting, and SE has used other of Leighton's works so the style may feel familiar. I have a few other possibilities if this one is not appropriate for some reason.

PD Proof: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=gri.ark:/13960/t9286xk92&view=1up&seq=126&q1=leighton

which was found via the link on the 'Uncategorized art books' page that has link text:
(this is a whole series) Royal Academy pictures and sculpture. 1900

It would look roughly like this if used (this is not a full resolution image, I scaled it down for space here).

Thanks and let me know what the appropriate next steps are.

Mark

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Lukas Bystricky

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Jun 1, 2023, 12:35:04 AMJun 1

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Cover looks good to me. Nice find!

Emma Sweeney

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Jun 1, 2023, 5:24:37 PMJun 1

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Let me know when you've added the cover and metadata, then I will start reviewing.

Emma

Mark Watkins

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Jun 1, 2023, 5:57:27 PMJun 1

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Super. I have made the cover art related changes, the github repo is up to date.

Best,

Mark

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Emma Sweeney

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Jun 1, 2023, 6:39:26 PMJun 1

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Great work! I filed some issues in your repository. Let me know when you are done or if you have any questions.

Emma

Mark Watkins

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Jun 1, 2023, 10:09:06 PMJun 1

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Thanks for the prompt and thorough review! I believe I have addressed all the issues and updated the repo, as well as the github issue (which I left open for the moment).

Mark

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Emma Sweeney

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Jun 3, 2023, 1:45:27 AMJun 3

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Alex, this one is ready for you.

Emma

mark.w...@gmail.com

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Jun 6, 2023, 1:15:32 PMJun 6

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Just confirming, do I need to do anything further here?

Thanks!

Alex Cabal

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Jun 6, 2023, 4:00:45 PMJun 6

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You're all done, I'll be releasing this shortly

> https://github.com/viking2917/marie-de-france_lais_eugene-mason <https://github.com/viking2917/marie-de-france_lais_eugene-mason>

>
> As for cover art, I'd like to suggest The
> Shadow by Edmund Blair Leighton. It is
> thematically appropriate, an oil painting,
> and SE has used other of Leighton's works so
> the style may feel familiar. I have a few
> other possibilities if this one is not
> appropriate for some reason.
>
> PD Proof:

> https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=gri.ark:/13960/t9286xk92&view=1up&seq=126&q1=leighton <https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=gri.ark:/13960/t9286xk92&view=1up&seq=126&q1=leighton>

>
> which was found via the link on the
> 'Uncategorized art books' page that has link
> text:
> (this is a whole series) Royal Academy
> pictures and sculpture. 1900
>
> It would look roughly like this if used
> (this is not a full resolution image, I
> scaled it down for space here).
>

> cover.jpg
>
>
> Thanks and let me know what the appropriate
> next steps are.
>
> Mark
>
> On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 7:40 AM Emma Sweeney
> <sween...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I can review.
>
> Emma
> On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 1:34:04 PM
> UTC-4 lukasby...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I can manage.
>
> On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at
> 6:39:51 PM UTC+2 Alex Cabal wrote:
>
> Lukas, can you manage this with
> Emma reviewing?
>
> On 5/30/23 8:32 PM,
> mark.w...@gmail.com wrote:
> > There is a repo
> > at

> https://github.com/viking2917/marie-de-france_lais_eugene-mason <https://github.com/viking2917/marie-de-france_lais_eugene-mason>

> >
> >
> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography>
> >
> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography>>
> >
> > The step by step guide will
> take you from start to finish:
> >
> >

> >
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Mark Watkins

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Jun 6, 2023, 4:08:49 PMJun 6

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Awesome thank you!

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Alex Cabal

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Jun 6, 2023, 5:04:10 PMJun 6

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OK, everything looks good Mark and I've gone ahead and released it. Thanks!

For future productions, we only modernize *spelling* not *words*. So
words like "builded" are not modernized to "built" because it's a
different (archaic) word, not a sound-alike spelling of the same word.
Likewise diacritics purposefully used for prosodic effect (like agèd)
are left in.

If you'd like to produce another book, check out our wanted list for
moderate-difficulty productions, or pitch something else that interests
you to the mailing list. Thanks again!

> https://github.com/viking2917/marie-de-france_lais_eugene-mason <https://github.com/viking2917/marie-de-france_lais_eugene-mason>

>
> As for cover art, I'd like to suggest The Shadow by
> Edmund Blair Leighton. It is thematically appropriate,
> an oil painting, and SE has used other of Leighton's
> works so the style may feel familiar. I have a few other
> possibilities if this one is not appropriate for some
> reason.
>
> PD Proof:

> https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=gri.ark:/13960/t9286xk92&view=1up&seq=126&q1=leighton <https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=gri.ark:/13960/t9286xk92&view=1up&seq=126&q1=leighton>

>
> which was found via the link on the 'Uncategorized art
> books' page that has link text:
> (this is a whole series) Royal Academy pictures and
> sculpture. 1900
>
> It would look roughly like this if used (this is not a
> full resolution image, I scaled it down for space here).
>

> cover.jpg
>
>
> Thanks and let me know what the appropriate next steps are.
>
> Mark
>
> On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 7:40 AM Emma Sweeney
> <sween...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I can review.
>
> Emma
> On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 1:34:04 PM UTC-4
> lukasby...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I can manage.
>
> On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 6:39:51 PM UTC+2
> Alex Cabal wrote:
>
> Lukas, can you manage this with Emma reviewing?
>
> On 5/30/23 8:32 PM, mark.w...@gmail.com wrote:
> > There is a repo
> > at

> https://github.com/viking2917/marie-de-france_lais_eugene-mason <https://github.com/viking2917/marie-de-france_lais_eugene-mason>

> >
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Mark Watkins

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Jun 6, 2023, 5:12:14 PMJun 6

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Awesome, thanks!

Re: 'builded', got it, makes sense.

Re: prosodic effect (like agèd): 'se find-mismatched-diacritics' listed an error because the word occurred 3 times with the diacritic, and 3 times without. I changed the three with diacritics to remove them, to ensure consistency - would the preference be in future to add the diacritics where they did not occur? Or simply to leave the word occurring differently as the original transcription had them?

Thanks again, good fun.

Mark

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Alex Cabal

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Jun 6, 2023, 5:32:59 PMJun 6

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In this case they are obviously used for effect, so we would leave them
in in that case.

`se find-mismatched-diacritics` is more for just spotting typos either
in print or transcription, when a word that obviously needs diacritics
based on the rest of the text is missing it.

> <mailto:mark.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Super. I have made the cover art related changes, the github
> repo is
> > up to date.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 11:24 AM Emma Sweeney

> <sween...@gmail.com <mailto:sween...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Let me know when you've added the cover and metadata, then I
> > will start reviewing.
> >
> > Emma
> > On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 12:35:04 AM UTC-4

> > lukasby...@gmail.com <mailto:lukasby...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Cover looks good to me. Nice find!
> > On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 3:57:29 AM UTC+2

> https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=gri.ark:/13960/t9286xk92&view=1up&seq=126&q1=leighton <https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=gri.ark:/13960/t9286xk92&view=1up&seq=126&q1=leighton> <https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=gri.ark:/13960/t9286xk92&view=1up&seq=126&q1=leighton <https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=gri.ark:/13960/t9286xk92&view=1up&seq=126&q1=leighton>>

> >
> > which was found via the link on the
> 'Uncategorized art
> > books' page that has link text:
> > (this is a whole series) Royal Academy pictures and
> > sculpture. 1900
> >
> > It would look roughly like this if used (this is
> not a
> > full resolution image, I scaled it down for space
> here).
> >
> > cover.jpg
> >
> >
> > Thanks and let me know what the appropriate next
> steps are.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 7:40 AM Emma Sweeney

> > <sween...@gmail.com <mailto:sween...@gmail.com>>

> wrote:
> >
> > I can review.
> >
> > Emma
> > On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 1:34:04 PM UTC-4

> > lukasby...@gmail.com <mailto:lukasby...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I can manage.
> >
> > On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 6:39:51 PM
> UTC+2
> > Alex Cabal wrote:
> >
> > Lukas, can you manage this with Emma
> reviewing?
> >
> > On 5/30/23 8:32 PM,

> mark.w...@gmail.com <mailto:mark.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > There is a repo
> > > at
> > https://github.com/viking2917/marie-de-france_lais_eugene-mason
> <https://github.com/viking2917/marie-de-france_lais_eugene-mason>
> <https://github.com/viking2917/marie-de-france_lais_eugene-mason
> <https://github.com/viking2917/marie-de-france_lais_eugene-mason>>
> > >
> > > The basic steps have been
> completed in a
> > first draft and I am proofreading.
> > >
> > > On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at
> 10:55:28 AM
> > UTC-10 mark.w...@gmail.com

> <mailto:mark.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Awesome. Your point about only
> including
> > works which are Marie's
> > > makes sense, assuming a more
> > 'single-author' approach for the SE
> > > collection is preferred.
> > >
> > > (I suppose it could be produced as a
> > multi-author 'medieval stories'
> > > collection if there was a
> preference for
> > that, but I'm happy to run
> > > with it as just the 12 stories)
> > >
> > > Will report back when a repo is going.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 7:56 AM
> Alex Cabal
> > > <al...@standardebooks.org

> > >
> > >
> > https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography
> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography>
> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography
> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography>>
> > >
> >
> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography
> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography>
> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography
> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography>>>
> > >
> > > The step by step guide will take
> you from
> > start to finish:
> > >
> > >
> >

> > >
> > > Please email often if you have any
> > questions at all. Our
> > > standards are
> > > well-established so there is probably
> > already a standard for
> > > formatting
> > > whatever problem you've encountered.
> > >
> > > When you're ready, email back with
> a link
> > to your Github
> > > repository so
> > > that I can mark you as having started.
> > >
> > > Have fun! :)
> > >
> > > On 5/29/23 2:23 PM,

> mark.w...@gmail.com <mailto:mark.w...@gmail.com>

> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>>.
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