[First Project] Demian by Herman Hesse

[Sasha]

Previously discussed here.

- Scans: https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/102954224

- Gutenberg: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/74222

It would appear the translator wasn't listed anywhere in the book, but as Alex mentioned Wikipedia credits N.H. Priday. Not sure if we would need to find a primary source for the information.

Also, the original German edition was published under the pseudonym "Emil Sinclair". Should I include the information in the metadata somewhere?

[Alex Cabal]

Please send a link to your repo once you get started so we can assign
you a manager and reviewer. Note that the translator name should have
spaces between the initials. Thanks!

On 4/23/25 5:40 PM, Sasha wrote:
> Previously discussed here <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/
> FHhmBKi0iSY/m/MAAE4JWABgAJ>.

> --
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> standardebooks/a2795b2c-a03a-4704-b3b0-a41d8480cd8en%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/a2795b2c-a03a-4704-
> b3b0-a41d8480cd8en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Sasha]

Hi, apologies for the delay. A change in my work occurred earlier than I expected, so I've had to deal with that over the past few weeks. But now I'm free to start work on this production.

Project Repo: https://github.com/SashaPrawn/hermann-hesse_demian

A few questions about formatting the book:

1 - In the 'prologue' at the start, there is italicized text which is a quote of a passage in Chapter 5. Should I consider this an epigraph in the section header? If so, just to double check, I wouldn't need to add any citation to the text, right? I also considered formatting this with the <q> element since it is technically a thought of the narrator, but it doesn't seem very correct.

2 - In the manual, 7.2.8 says that a section without any header content should have ```margin-top: 8em```; but then 7.2.10.9 says that sections without any titles at all should have ```margin-top: 20vh```. Which rule should I give preference to? Maybe I'm just misunderstanding the manual, though.

3 - There are a few cases in the book where words will be wrapped in single quotes, though I am not entirely sure if they are being used for emphasis, ambiguity, or irony. One example is this sentence:  But you haven’t yet reached that point where one can see what is ‘permitted’ and what is really ‘taboo.’ In this case the quotes seem to be used to denote ambiguity in the definitions of permitted or taboo, since the discussion is rather philosophical.  But then again, it could also be just simple emphasis to highlight the concepts being discussed. Here's the paragraph in question: link. The single quotes are also used for the word 'sign' and 'personal' in other parts.

- Sasha

[Alex Cabal]

OK, Vince will manage this with Weijia reviewing.

Vince can you address these questions?

Additional note - you must use `se create-draft` with the `--translator`
flag to make sure the translator gets included in various boilerplate
files. If you haven't gotten far I would just recreate the repo from
scratch using that flag.

On 5/14/25 5:25 PM, Sasha wrote:
> Hi, apologies for the delay. A change in my work occurred earlier than I
> expected, so I've had to deal with that over the past few weeks. But now
> I'm free to start work on this production.
>
> Project Repo: https://github.com/SashaPrawn/hermann-hesse_demian
>
> A few questions about formatting the book:
>
> 1 - In the 'prologue' at the start, there is italicized text which is a
> quote of a passage in Chapter 5. Should I consider this an epigraph in
> the section header? If so, just to double check, I wouldn't need to add
> any citation to the text, right? I also considered formatting this with
> the <q> element since it is technically a thought of the narrator, but
> it doesn't seem very correct.
>
> 2 - In the manual, 7.2.8 says that a section without any header content
> should have ```margin-top: 8em```; but then 7.2.10.9 says that sections
> without any titles at all should have ```margin-top: 20vh```. Which rule
> should I give preference to? Maybe I'm just misunderstanding the manual,
> though.
>
> 3 - There are a few cases in the book where words will be wrapped in
> single quotes, though I am not entirely sure if they are being used for

> emphasis, ambiguity, or irony. One example is this sentence: /But you

> haven’t yet reached that point where one can see what is ‘permitted’ and

> what is really ‘taboo.’ /In this case the quotes seem to be used to

> denote ambiguity in the definitions of permitted or taboo, since the
> discussion is rather philosophical.  But then again, it could also be
> just simple emphasis to highlight the concepts being discussed. Here's

> the paragraph in question: link <https://github.com/SashaPrawn/hermann-
> hesse_demian/blob/182dc53a64182ea355780569770c4ab66a51c24e/src/epub/
> text/chapter-3.xhtml#L60>. The single quotes are also used for the word

> 'sign' and 'personal' in other parts.
>
> - Sasha
>
> On Wednesday, April 23, 2025 at 4:01:16 PM UTC-7 Alex Cabal wrote:
>
> Please send a link to your repo once you get started so we can assign
> you a manager and reviewer. Note that the translator name should have
> spaces between the initials. Thanks!
>
> On 4/23/25 5:40 PM, Sasha wrote:
> > Previously discussed here <https://groups.google.com/g/

> standardebooks/c/ <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/>

> > FHhmBKi0iSY/m/MAAE4JWABgAJ>.
> >
> > - Scans: https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/102954224
> <https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/102954224>

> > - Gutenberg: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/74222 <https://
> www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/74222>

> >
> > It would appear the translator wasn't listed anywhere in the
> book, but
> > as Alex mentioned Wikipedia credits N.H. Priday. Not sure if we
> would
> > need to find a primary source for the information.
> >
> > Also, the original German edition was published under the pseudonym
> > "Emil Sinclair". Should I include the information in the metadata
> somewhere?
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
> > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> > standardebooks/a2795b2c-a03a-4704-b3b0-
> a41d8480cd8en%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/a2795b2c-
> a03a-4704- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
> a2795b2c-a03a-4704->
> > b3b0-a41d8480cd8en%40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

>
> --
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> standardebooks/b2934fb5-5fd0-484b-a9a4-08dd1a6ad457n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b2934fb5-5fd0-484b-
> a9a4-08dd1a6ad457n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Weijia Cheng]

Ok, I will review.

[Sasha]

Hi, I fixed the missing translator metadata, but just committed it on top of the existing repository rather create a new one. The changes are directly from `se create-draft`, so there shouldn't be problems with the svg layouts or missing metadata. I'll start proofreading the text in the meantime, but I won't commit the changes before finishing semantics.

[Alex Cabal]

That's fine!

> hesse_demian <https://github.com/SashaPrawn/hermann-hesse_demian>

> SashaPrawn/hermann- <https://github.com/SashaPrawn/hermann->
> > hesse_demian/blob/182dc53a64182ea355780569770c4ab66a51c24e/

> src/epub/
> > text/chapter-3.xhtml#L60>. The single quotes are also used
> for the word
> > 'sign' and 'personal' in other parts.
> >
> > - Sasha
> >
> > On Wednesday, April 23, 2025 at 4:01:16 PM UTC-7 Alex Cabal
> wrote:
> >
> > Please send a link to your repo once you get started so we
> can assign
> > you a manager and reviewer. Note that the translator name
> should have
> > spaces between the initials. Thanks!
> >
> > On 4/23/25 5:40 PM, Sasha wrote:
> > > Previously discussed here <https://groups.google.com/g/

> <https://groups.google.com/g/>
> > standardebooks/c/ <https://groups.google.com/g/

> standardebooks/c/ <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/>>
> > > FHhmBKi0iSY/m/MAAE4JWABgAJ>.
> > >
> > > - Scans: https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/102954224
> <https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/102954224>

> > <https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/102954224 <https://

> catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/102954224>>
> > > - Gutenberg: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/74222

> <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/74222> <https://
> > www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/74222 <http://www.gutenberg.org/

> ebooks/74222>>
> > >
> > > It would appear the translator wasn't listed anywhere in the
> > book, but
> > > as Alex mentioned Wikipedia credits N.H. Priday. Not sure
> if we
> > would
> > > need to find a primary source for the information.
> > >
> > > Also, the original German edition was published under the
> pseudonym
> > > "Emil Sinclair". Should I include the information in the
> metadata
> > somewhere?
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> Google
> > > Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
> from it,
> > send
> > > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> > > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> > > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/
> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>

> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>
> > > standardebooks/a2795b2c-a03a-4704-b3b0-
> > a41d8480cd8en%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>
> > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/a2795b2c-

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/a2795b2c->
> > a03a-4704- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/>
> > a2795b2c-a03a-4704->
> > > b3b0-a41d8480cd8en%40googlegroups.com

> <http://40googlegroups.com>?
> > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>?

> > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
> >
> > --
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> it, send
> > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
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> > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/

> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> > standardebooks/b2934fb5-5fd0-484b-
> a9a4-08dd1a6ad457n%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
> b2934fb5-5fd0-484b- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> standardebooks/b2934fb5-5fd0-484b->
> > a9a4-08dd1a6ad457n%40googlegroups.com?

> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>
> --
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/2b17a7d7-
> dfc5-4f75-9508-bb478a53a3b5n%40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Vince]

When you’re asking about the source, please provide links to the pertinent position in the scans. This is especially true in the case of #3—it’s the scans that need to be examined, not your text.

Alex, #2 is for you.

1. It definitely should be a blockquote, but I’m ambivalent about whether it should be an epigraph. It doesn’t seem to me to fit a true epigraph, especially since it’s from later in the book. I think I would just leave it as a plain blockquote (which you can use CSS to italicize).

2. That’s a really good question; I don’t think I’ve ever noticed 7.2.8 before. And I can’t make any sense of a distinction between the two; 7.2.8 specifically mentions not having epigraphs or other non-prose material and 7.2.10.9 doesn’t, but if the latter means that they could be present, it doesn’t make any sense to me to use less of a top margin when they are not present than when they could be. Alex will have to explain this one; they may just be an inconsistency that we’ve never caught. (I’ve always used 20vh, but as I said I don’t think I’ve ever noticed 7.2.8.)

3. They should be left as is, it’s not emphasis.

[Alex Cabal]

Re #2, looks like a duplicate snuck in. 8em is about 20vh for many
ereader aspect ratios. Use rule 7.2.10.9 in the current version of the
manual. In the next version that rule will be renumbered to 7.2.8.

On 5/15/25 3:00 PM, Vince wrote:
> When you’re asking about the source, please provide links to the
> pertinent position in the scans. This is especially true in the case of
> #3—it’s the scans that need to be examined, not your text.
>
> Alex, #2 is for you.
>
> 1. It definitely should be a blockquote, but I’m ambivalent about
> whether it should be an epigraph. It doesn’t seem to me to fit a true
> epigraph, especially since it’s from later in the book. I think I would
> just leave it as a plain blockquote (which you can use CSS to italicize).
>
> 2. That’s a really good question; I don’t think I’ve ever noticed 7.2.8
> before. And I can’t make any sense of a distinction between the two;
> 7.2.8 specifically mentions not having epigraphs or other non-prose
> material and 7.2.10.9 doesn’t, but if the latter means that they could

> be present, it doesn’t make any sense to me to use /less/ of a top

>> for emphasis, ambiguity, or irony. One example is this sentence: /But

>> you haven’t yet reached that point where one can see what is

>> ‘permitted’ and what is really ‘taboo.’/In this case the quotes seem

>> to be used to denote ambiguity in the definitions of permitted or
>> taboo, since the discussion is rather philosophical.  But then again,
>> it could also be just simple emphasis to highlight the concepts being

>> discussed. Here's the paragraph in question:link <https://github.com/
>> SashaPrawn/hermann-hesse_demian/
>> blob/182dc53a64182ea355780569770c4ab66a51c24e/src/epub/text/
>> chapter-3.xhtml#L60>. The single quotes are also used for the word

>> 'sign' and 'personal' in other parts.
>

> --
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/75665ED8-
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> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.