[Next Project] The Eustace Diamonds, by Anthony Trollope (Palliser 3/6)

[David]

It's probably not too soon to get started on the next of the Pallisers, The Eustace Diamonds (1973).

- Ebook source: https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/7381
- Page scans: https://archive.org/details/eustacediamonds02trolgoog

I think I've got covers for the rest of the series now, though that's subject to approval of course. Here's what I have in mind for The Eustace Diamonds (a bit of "artistic license" required?):

Hope that passes muster!

Image source: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:William-McGregor-Paxton-The-String-of-Pearls-Oil-Painting.jpg

PD proof: https://archive.org/details/sim_the-new-england-magazine_1908-09_39_1/page/36/mode/2up

I'll post the github repo link once project arrangements are in place. Thanks!

David / Fife, UK

[Alex Cabal]

Art looks good. Weijia, can you manage this with Robin reviewing?

On 11/21/22 3:39 AM, David wrote:
> It's probably not too soon to get started on the next of the Pallisers,

> /The Eustace Diamonds/ (1973).
> /
> /

> - Ebook source: https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/7381

> - Page scans: https://archive.org/details/eustacediamonds02trolgoog/
> /
>
> I /think /I've got covers for the rest of the series now, though that's
> subject to approval of course. Here's what I have in mind for /The
> Eustace Diamonds/ (a bit of "artistic license" required?):

>
> cover-eustace-360x540.jpg
>
> Hope that passes muster!
> Image source:
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:William-McGregor-Paxton-The-String-of-Pearls-Oil-Painting.jpg
> PD proof:
> https://archive.org/details/sim_the-new-england-magazine_1908-09_39_1/page/36/mode/2up
>
> I'll post the github repo link once project arrangements are in place.
> Thanks!
>
> David / Fife, UK
>

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[Robin Whittleton]

Sure.

> On 21 Nov 2022, at 20:54, Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org> wrote:
>
> Art looks good. Weijia, can you manage this with Robin reviewing?

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[David]

Super! (And that should have been 1873 in my first post, of course.)

And even before I can make first commit ... I haven't seen this in a PG edition before:

"E-text prepared by Anne Soulard, Charles Aldarondo, Tiffany Vergon, John R. Bilderback, and the Project Gutenberg Online Distributed Proofreading Team (http://www.pgdp.net) and revised by Joseph E. Loewenstein, M.D."

So, four producers plus PGDP team, okay ... and how does the revision contribution from Joseph Loewenstein get handled in the metadata? I've looked at SEMoS 9.16, but don't see this case. Perhaps simply as `#transcriber-5`?

Thanks!

D.

[Weijia Cheng]

Sure, I can manage this. #transcriber-5 is fine.

[David]

Thanks, Weijia — working you hard already. ;-)

Repo here with first commit: https://github.com/dajare/anthony-trollope_the-eustace-diamonds

D.

[David]

Another one, Weijia. I have an inset document which is not a "letter", but which PG has set out as blockquote. It is a legal opinion, that takes up most of Chapter 25. It begins thus:

The semantic options include "annotation", "commentary", "clarification", ... "pgroup", even? Some guidance on the best semantic presentation of this (avoiding "letter", of course!) would be welcome.

Thanks! D.

[Weijia Cheng]

I don't think it would be any of the annotation semantics, since those seem to be more for annotations by the editor and not the source text. "pgroup" seems way too general to be useful (also the fact that it is a blockquote would already imply that it is a group of interrelated paragraphs).

What I would do, if you are adamant that it is not a letter, is make the blockquote a plain blockquote (i.e. without an epub:type), but surround the date and signature at the end in a <footer>. You can still use the z3998:signature semantic for the signature, even though it isn't a letter, and copy in the small-caps signature CSS from the manual (though it wouldn't do a lot here since the signature doesn't have any lowercase letters, but it's nice for completeness).

[David]

Thanks - makes sense! There are also 29 letters in this novel, so the CSS will be there. :) (I'm finding adding semantics to letters in Trollope novels is one of the most time-consuming aspects of production.)

D.

[David]

Sorry - I've been trying to figure these out, and mostly I think I'm succeeding, but this one has me stumped. There is a comment/aside which appears in the body of a letter:

The PG transcription presents it between square brackets inside the paired em-dashes. I don't think we use the square brackets convention here? I'm minded to break the "aside" out into a <p class="continued"> paragraph, then resume the letter (as I've seen elsewhere).

Is this an acceptable solution? Or is there some other preferred approach? I'm in the "manual semantics" step, not normally an "[Editorial]" commit, but would this be one?

Thanks for the help! Sorry for all the questions... D.

[Weijia Cheng]

That is really odd. I don't believe I've seen that situation before. I think because the letter is so short, trying to break it out into a new paragraph will look really strange. I think what PG does is OK and we can keep it as is.

[Vince]

Merely as a piece of information, that presentation is odd, but the situation, i.e. comment(s) being made while a letter is being read, is not. And in all other cases I’ve seen (or at least recollect), regardless of letter length, the comments are separated from the letter, i.e. outside the blockquote. A corpus search could probably be done of “<blockquote” occurring within one line of a “</blockquote>” to see where this occurs. (Not all of those found would be this situation, but I suspect most of them would.)

[David]

Thank you, both, for responses on this. I continue to be conflicted over the best approach. Weijia's inclination has the advantage of practicality and "follow the transcription where possible" principle. Vince's sense that the situation is common, and that interruptions in the `blockquote` are frequent is also the case. Since we also value "semantic markup", that would imply moving non-letter text out of the blockquote where practicable.

I've done my best to get DATA. ;-) My regex skills are not the sharpest, but I've tried to find examples in the corpus with a variety of searches. Vince's suggestion (to look for new blockquote within a line of preceding blockquote) does turn up quite quite a few hits (280). Many of them are a line between two different letters, of course. And finding examples of "offline" comment embedded within a letter is difficult. I've spotted one example of square brackets (there are parentheses in the print edition), but this isn't quite the same case as a substantive "offline" comment. Typically, print editions have these in a separate paragraph, too (from the several examples I've checked), so the problem doesn't arise.

But I cannot find any examples of square quotes like these in ch. 65 of Eustace Diamonds in the corpus. They may be out there! I just haven't found the regex that finds them. (Clarissa Harlowe often makes an appearance....) Given the frequency with which a letter is broken up with interspersed comment (Henryk Sienkiewicz's The Deluge has a fine example!), that remains my inclination here.

Any responses? I won't make any adjustment on this when committing the "manual semantics", and will await clarity/consensus on it.

Thanks again!  D.

On Wednesday, 23 November 2022 at 02:25:24 UTC Vince wrote:

Merely as a piece of information, that presentation is odd, but the situation, i.e. comment(s) being made while a letter is being read, is not. And in all other cases I’ve seen (or at least recollect), regardless of letter length, the comments are separated from the letter, i.e. outside the blockquote. A corpus search could probably be done of “<blockquote” occurring within one line of a “</blockquote>” to see where this occurs. (Not all of those found would be this situation, but I suspect most of them would.)

[C T]

Another example:

https://github.com/standardebooks/marie-belloc-lowndes_the-lodger/blob/c212237246be9275e6980be94cf64ec244c9c82a/src/epub/text/chapter-11.xhtml

She's 'reading aloud' some newspaper articles, and em dashes are used to show 'interruptions'. Then dialogue is outside of blockquotes, and blockquotes continue after interruption is complete.

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[Weijia Cheng]

I think if you want to break that comment out into its own paragraph, that's fine. Just do it in an editorial commit separate from the manual semantics commit so it can be reviewed separately. It seems close enough to the Deluge and Lodger examples to work.

[David]

Sounds like a plan, Weijia. Will do! Thanks.

D.

On Wednesday, 23 November 2022 at 13:32:57 UTC weijia  wrote:

I think if you want to break that comment out into its own paragraph, that's fine. Just do it in an editorial commit separate from the manual semantics commit so it can be reviewed separately. It seems close enough to the Deluge and Lodger examples to work.

On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 4:45:20 AM UTC-8, CT wrote:

Another example:

https://github.com/standardebooks/marie-belloc-lowndes_the-lodger/blob/c212237246be9275e6980be94cf64ec244c9c82a/src/epub/text/chapter-11.xhtml

She's 'reading aloud' some newspaper articles, and em dashes are used to show 'interruptions'. Then dialogue is outside of blockquotes, and blockquotes continue after interruption is complete.

[David]

OK, The Eustace Diamonds is ready for review:

https://github.com/dajare/anthony-trollope_the-eustace-diamonds

There are four "production notes" in content.opf. Also, there were more "embedded square brackets", along the lines of the case discussed above. I have treated them all consistently, and they are noted ("sq brackets", or the like) in "[Editorial]" commits. We'll see what Robin makes of them. :)

Thanks!  D.

[Robin Whittleton]

What can I say? It’s pretty much perfect. Only changes I’d suggest:

• aquire -> acquire in the longdesc
• ENEMY -> <strong>enemy</strong>, and add #chapter-33 strong { font-variant: none; text-transform: uppercase; } to the CSS. All caps can be read as initial letters by screen readers.
• On the subject of the production notes, we typically don’t note obvious non-modernisations (door-die is fairly obvious), and the ch 57 note isn’t coming up in lint for me.

-Robin

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[David]

Thanks, Robin. Improving, anyway! :) (I had some long-suffering teachers on my earlier projects!)

I've addressed those issues in a couple commits, and re-ran `se clean`. It seems happy.

If you're content with my fixes, it's over Alex.

[Robin Whittleton]

Yep, all looks good. Off to Alex.

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[Alex Cabal]

Alright, great work as usual! I've gone ahead and released it. Thanks David!

On 12/3/22 3:47 PM, Robin Whittleton wrote:
> Yep, all looks good. Off to Alex.
>
>> On 3 Dec 2022, at 22:45, David <djre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, Robin. Improving, anyway! :) (I had some long-suffering
>> teachers on my earlier projects!)
>>
>> I've addressed those issues in a couple commits, and re-ran `se
>> clean`. It seems happy.
>>
>> If you're content with my fixes, it's over Alex.
>>
>> On Saturday, 3 December 2022 at 19:59:41 UTC robin wrote:
>>
>> What can I say? It’s pretty much perfect. Only changes I’d suggest:
>>

>> * aquire -> acquire in the longdesc
>> * ENEMY -> <strong>enemy</strong>, and add #chapter-33 strong {

>> font-variant: none; text-transform: uppercase; } to the CSS.
>> All caps can be read as initial letters by screen readers.

>> * On the subject of the production notes, we typically don’t

>> note obvious non-modernisations (door-die is fairly obvious),
>> and the ch 57 note isn’t coming up in lint for me.
>>
>>
>> -Robin
>>
>>> On 3 Dec 2022, at 11:10, David <djre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>

>>> OK, /The Eustace Diamonds/ is ready for review:

>>>
>>> https://github.com/dajare/anthony-trollope_the-eustace-diamonds
>>> <https://github.com/dajare/anthony-trollope_the-eustace-diamonds>
>>>
>>> There are four "production notes" in content.opf. Also, there
>>> were more "embedded square brackets", along the lines of the case
>>> discussed above. I have treated them all consistently, and they
>>> are noted ("sq brackets", or the like) in "[Editorial]" commits.
>>> We'll see what Robin makes of them. :)
>>>
>>> Thanks!  D.
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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