[First project] The Pit by Frank Norris

[Sidney Hirschman]

Hi all,

Since The Pit: A Story of Chicago is on the Wanted list and Gijs van Tulder has just produced its companion The Octopus, I thought it would make a great first project, if that's okay.

Transcription: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/4382

Page scans: https://archive.org/details/pit0000fran_i1s9

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pit_(Norris_novel)

The book includes frontmatter and a half title page, but many of its idiosyncrasies are shared with its sister book and were sorted out by Gijs and Vince in the Octopus thread.

If (when!!!) I finish it, I'd like to look at some projects from the Wanted list that have been started semi-recently but abandoned, like the fourth Pooh book and Wieland. (That is to ask, how long before a project is considered abandoned?)

Thanks all.

Sid

[Alex Cabal]

Great, that one would be a good start.

It looks like you've got the basics sorted. The preface you can mostly
copy and paste from the previous book but it's not entirely identical so
please be careful.

There's a dedication and a dramatis personae. You can put the dramatis
personae after the preface.

There are some blockquotes of non-English so those will have to be in
italics with language semantics.

Make sure to read the Standard Ebooks Manual of Style before starting,
as you won't know what to fix if you haven't read the standards. In
particular, please closely review the semantics, high level patterns,
and typography sections:

https://standardebooks.org/manual

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography

The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:

https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step

This page on common issues in older books may be useful:

https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-working-on-public-domain-ebooks

Please email often if you have any questions at all. Our standards are
well-established so there is probably already a standard for formatting
whatever problem you've encountered.

When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github repository so
that I can mark you as having started.

Have fun! :)


On 9/29/25 5:57 PM, Sidney Hirschman wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Since /The Pit: A Story of Chicago/ is on the Wanted list and Gijs van
> Tulder has just produced its companion /The Octopus/, I thought it would

> make a great first project, if that's okay.
>
> Transcription: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/4382
> Page scans: https://archive.org/details/pit0000fran_i1s9
> Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pit_(Norris_novel)
>
> The book includes frontmatter and a half title page, but many of its
> idiosyncrasies are shared with its sister book and were sorted out by

> Gijs and Vince in the /Octopus/ thread.

>
> If (when!!!) I finish it, I'd like to look at some projects from the
> Wanted list that have been started semi-recently but abandoned, like the

> fourth Pooh book and /Wieland/. (That is to ask, how long before a

> project is considered abandoned?)
>
> Thanks all.
> Sid
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
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> standardebooks/bf07780c-e6b9-4f89-b539-0b086cab751dn%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/bf07780c-e6b9-4f89-
> b539-0b086cab751dn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Sidney Hirschman]

Great! The repo is here: https://github.com/s-dney/frank-norris_the-pit

[Alex Cabal]

OK, Robin will manage this with Lukas reviewing.

On 9/30/25 8:30 AM, Sidney Hirschman wrote:
> Great! The repo is here: https://github.com/s-dney/frank-norris_the-pit
>
> On Monday, September 29, 2025 at 9:50:16 PM UTC-4 Alex Cabal wrote:
>
> Great, that one would be a good start.
>
> It looks like you've got the basics sorted. The preface you can mostly
> copy and paste from the previous book but it's not entirely
> identical so
> please be careful.
>
> There's a dedication and a dramatis personae. You can put the dramatis
> personae after the preface.
>
> There are some blockquotes of non-English so those will have to be in
> italics with language semantics.
>
> Make sure to read the Standard Ebooks Manual of Style before starting,
> as you won't know what to fix if you haven't read the standards. In
> particular, please closely review the semantics, high level patterns,
> and typography sections:
>
> https://standardebooks.org/manual <https://standardebooks.org/manual>
>

> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics <https://
> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics>
>
> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-
> patterns <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-
> structural-patterns>
>
> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography <https://
> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography>

>
> The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:
>
> https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-

> step <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-
> by-step>

>
> This page on common issues in older books may be useful:
>
> https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-

> working-on-public-domain-ebooks <https://standardebooks.org/
> contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-working-on-public-domain-ebooks>

>
> Please email often if you have any questions at all. Our standards are
> well-established so there is probably already a standard for formatting
> whatever problem you've encountered.
>
> When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github repository so
> that I can mark you as having started.
>
> Have fun! :)
>
>
> On 9/29/25 5:57 PM, Sidney Hirschman wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Since /The Pit: A Story of Chicago/ is on the Wanted list and
> Gijs van
> > Tulder has just produced its companion /The Octopus/, I thought
> it would
> > make a great first project, if that's okay.
> >

> > Transcription: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/4382 <https://
> www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/4382>
> > Page scans: https://archive.org/details/pit0000fran_i1s9

> <https://archive.org/details/pit0000fran_i1s9>
> > Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pit_(Norris_novel)
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pit_(Norris_novel)>
> >
> > The book includes frontmatter and a half title page, but many of its
> > idiosyncrasies are shared with its sister book and were sorted
> out by
> > Gijs and Vince in the /Octopus/ thread.
> >
> > If (when!!!) I finish it, I'd like to look at some projects from the
> > Wanted list that have been started semi-recently but abandoned,
> like the
> > fourth Pooh book and /Wieland/. (That is to ask, how long before a
> > project is considered abandoned?)
> >
> > Thanks all.
> > Sid
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
> > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> > standardebooks/bf07780c-e6b9-4f89-
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> e6b9-4f89- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
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> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

>
> --
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> a69a-e89a2ce42c27n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Sidney Hirschman]

Thanks Alex.

I have a few style/formatting questions, if this is the right place to ask:

1. When the grain traders are yelling, their order dialogue has an elision/apostrophe/right quote at the front.

Has anyone ever seen anything like that before? It seems to be there for a reason, since it appears on all and only the buy/sell order dialogue.

2. There's a passage where Norris puts quotes around the word "stoop," as if it's a newly-minted slang word. Same with "tag" and "I-spy." Would modernizing include taking the quotes off words that everyone knows at this point? 

3. When the girls are suggesting names for the yacht, should I leave the quotes when I italicize the ship names or should I lose them? It feels a bit different when it's suggestions within dialogue. (And there's "stoop" again.)

4. Same spread: It seems "the Farragut" is some sort of yacht club. Should I remove its quotes?

5. The names Theodora and Carmen are both the character names and the names of the operas. Should either of them be italicized? Should I remove their quotes?

6. Occasionally, Jadwin hears a noise in his ears that goes "wheat-wheat-wheat." It is sometimes styled with hyphens, sometimes with em-dashes. Should I regularize, and if so, to which?

7. Should I use normal letter formatting if the letter is being read aloud in its entirety, including the signature? See pages 415–417.

Thanks all. 

Sid

p.s. I tried to post this before with screenshots of the pages for easier reading but Google Groups wouldn't post it :(

[Robin Whittleton]

1. That’s definitely odd, never seen anything like that before. I checked a more modern (2013) edition out from archive.org and they’ve swapped them around. That doesn’t seem to make sense either though.

Potentially I might replace it with emphasis italics in an [Editorial] commit? Alex: any opinions here? 

2. You can remove those quotes; make sure that you do that in a commit prefaced with [Editorial] (as per spelling modernisation, etc)

3. I think that we should italicise all of these: they’re all deliberately referencing a name a ship could have. Do this in a separate commit so that if we change out mind we can revert it though.

4. Leave the quote in here.

5. Italicise if it’s a reference to the overall work, quotes if it’s the character. So for example: “the opening movement of the overture of Carmen.” vs. “I wish I had dressed as ‘Carmen,’ and I would have danced for you.”

6. Hyphens, and italicise it as per https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.4/single-page#8.2.6

7. Wow. We can’t use blockquote semantics as only chunks of it are quotes, and I’d suggest that we can’t wrap it in letter semantics at all. I’d suggest just adding a <footer role="presentation"> to contain the bottom of the letter and using our normal end-of-letter semantics and styling there. But I think this is going to have to be reviewed carefully. Maybe we don’t have a margin on the top of the postscript for this usage?

I’m honestly impressed with how many edgecases you’ve found. But well done for identifying them!

-Robin

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[Alex Cabal]

Not sure about the single quotes. I would just remove them, I don't even
have a guess as to why they're there.

Character names are not quoted

On 10/1/25 12:50 PM, Robin Whittleton wrote:
> 1. That’s definitely odd, never seen anything like that before. I

> checked a more modern (2013) edition out from archive.org <http://

> archive.org> and they’ve swapped them around. That doesn’t seem to make
> sense either though.
>

> Screenshot 2025-10-01 at 19.34.06.png
>
> Potentially I might replace it with emphasis italics in an [Editorial]
> commit? Alex: any opinions here?
>
> 2. You can remove those quotes; make sure that you do that in a commit
> prefaced with [Editorial] (as per spelling modernisation, etc)
>
> 3. I think that we should italicise all of these: they’re all
> deliberately referencing a name a ship could have. Do this in a separate
> commit so that if we change out mind we can revert it though.
>
> 4. Leave the quote in here.
>
> 5. Italicise if it’s a reference to the overall work, quotes if it’s the

> character. So for example: “the opening movement of the overture of /
> Carmen/.” vs. “I wish I had dressed as ‘Carmen,’ and I would have danced

> for you.”
>
> 6. Hyphens, and italicise it as per https://standardebooks.org/

> manual/1.8.4/single-page#8.2.6 <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.4/
> single-page#8.2.6>

>
> 7. Wow. We can’t use blockquote semantics as only chunks of it are
> quotes, and I’d suggest that we can’t wrap it in letter semantics at
> all. I’d suggest just adding a <footer role="presentation"> to contain
> the bottom of the letter and using our normal end-of-letter semantics
> and styling there. But I think this is going to have to be reviewed
> carefully. Maybe we don’t have a margin on the top of the postscript for
> this usage?
>
> I’m honestly impressed with how many edgecases you’ve found. But well
> done for identifying them!
>
> -Robin
>
>> On 1 Oct 2025, at 17:29, Sidney Hirschman <sidneyh...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Alex.
>>
>> I have a few style/formatting questions, if this is the right place to
>> ask:
>>

>> 1.When the grain traders are yelling <https://archive.org/details/
>> pit0000fran_i1s9/page/98/mode/2up>, their order dialogue has an

>> elision/apostrophe/right quote at the front.
>>
>> Has anyone ever seen anything like that before? It seems to be there

>> for a reason, since it appears on /all/ and /only/ the buy/sell order
>> dialogue.
>>
>> 2.There's a passage where <https://archive.org/details/
>> pit0000fran_i1s9/page/150/mode/2up>Norris puts quotes around the word

>> "stoop," as if it's a newly-minted slang word. Same with "tag" and "I-
>> spy." Would modernizing include taking the quotes off words that
>> everyone knows at this point?
>>
>>

>> 3.When the girls are suggesting names for the yacht <https://
>> archive.org/details/pit0000fran_i1s9/page/174/mode/2up>, should I

>> leave the quotes when I italicize the ship names or should I lose
>> them? It feels a bit different when it's suggestions within dialogue.
>> (And there's "stoop" again.)
>>
>>
>> 4. Same spread: It seems "the Farragut" is some sort of yacht club.
>> Should I remove its quotes?
>>
>>

>> 5.The names Theodora and Carmen <https://archive.org/details/
>> pit0000fran_i1s9/page/308/mode/2up>are both the character names /
>> and/ the names of the operas. Should either of them be italicized?

>> Should I remove their quotes?
>>
>> 6. Occasionally, Jadwin hears a noise in his ears that goes "wheat-
>> wheat-wheat." It is sometimes styled with hyphens, sometimes with em-
>> dashes. Should I regularize, and if so, to which?
>>
>> 7. Should I use normal letter formatting if the letter is being read
>> aloud in its entirety, including the signature? Seepages 415–417.

>> <https://archive.org/details/pit0000fran_i1s9/page/414/mode/2up>

>>
>> Thanks all.
>>
>> Sid
>>
>> p.s. I tried to post this before with screenshots of the pages for
>> easier reading but Google Groups wouldn't post it :(
>> On Tuesday, September 30, 2025 at 11:11:47 AM UTC-4 Alex Cabal wrote:
>>
>> OK, Robin will manage this with Lukas reviewing.
>>
>> On 9/30/25 8:30 AM, Sidney Hirschman wrote:
>> > Great! The repo is here:https://github.com/s-dney/frank-

>> norris_the-pit <https://github.com/s-dney/frank-norris_the-pit>

>> >
>> > On Monday, September 29, 2025 at 9:50:16 PM UTC-4 Alex Cabal wrote:
>> >
>> > Great, that one would be a good start.
>> >
>> > It looks like you've got the basics sorted. The preface you can
>> mostly
>> > copy and paste from the previous book but it's not entirely
>> > identical so
>> > please be careful.
>> >
>> > There's a dedication and a dramatis personae. You can put the
>> dramatis
>> > personae after the preface.
>> >
>> > There are some blockquotes of non-English so those will have to
>> be in
>> > italics with language semantics.
>> >
>> > Make sure to read the Standard Ebooks Manual of Style before
>> starting,
>> > as you won't know what to fix if you haven't read the standards. In
>> > particular, please closely review the semantics, high level
>> patterns,
>> > and typography sections:
>> >
>> >https://standardebooks.org/manual <https://standardebooks.org/

>> manual><https://standardebooks.org/manual <https://

>> standardebooks.org/manual>>
>> >
>> >https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics <https://
>> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics><https://

>> >standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics <http://
>> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics>>
>> >
>> >https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-

>> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural->
>> > patterns <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-
>> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level->
>> > structural-patterns>
>> >
>> >https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography <https://

>> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography><https://
>> >standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography <http://

>> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography>>
>> >
>> > The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:
>> >
>> >https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-

>> <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by->
>> > step <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-
>> step- <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step->

>> > by-step>
>> >
>> > This page on common issues in older books may be useful:
>> >
>> >https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-
>> <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when->
>> > working-on-public-domain-ebooks <https://standardebooks.org/

>> <https://standardebooks.org/>
>> > contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-working-on-public-domain-

>> ebooks>
>> >
>> > Please email often if you have any questions at all. Our
>> standards are
>> > well-established so there is probably already a standard for
>> formatting
>> > whatever problem you've encountered.
>> >
>> > When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github
>> repository so
>> > that I can mark you as having started.
>> >
>> > Have fun! :)
>> >
>> >
>> > On 9/29/25 5:57 PM, Sidney Hirschman wrote:
>> > > Hi all,
>> > >
>> > > Since /The Pit: A Story of Chicago/ is on the Wanted list and
>> > Gijs van
>> > > Tulder has just produced its companion /The Octopus/, I thought
>> > it would
>> > > make a great first project, if that's okay.
>> > >
>> > > Transcription:https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/4382 <https://

>> www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/4382><https://
>> >www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/4382 <http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/4382>>

>> > > Page scans:https://archive.org/details/pit0000fran_i1s9
>> <https://archive.org/details/pit0000fran_i1s9>

>> > <https://archive.org/details/pit0000fran_i1s9 <https://

>> archive.org/details/pit0000fran_i1s9>>
>> > > Wikipedia:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pit_(Norris_novel)
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pit_(Norris_novel)>

>> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pit_(Norris_novel) <https://

>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pit_(Norris_novel)>>
>> > >
>> > > The book includes frontmatter and a half title page, but many
>> of its
>> > > idiosyncrasies are shared with its sister book and were sorted
>> > out by
>> > > Gijs and Vince in the /Octopus/ thread.
>> > >
>> > > If (when!!!) I finish it, I'd like to look at some projects
>> from the
>> > > Wanted list that have been started semi-recently but abandoned,
>> > like the
>> > > fourth Pooh book and /Wieland/. (That is to ask, how long before a
>> > > project is considered abandoned?)
>> > >
>> > > Thanks all.
>> > > Sid
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> > > Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
>> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>> > send
>> > > an email tostandardebook...@googlegroups.com
>> > > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
>> > > To view this discussion visithttps://groups.google.com/d/
>> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>

>> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/
>> d/msgid/>>
>> > > standardebooks/bf07780c-e6b9-4f89-
>> > b539-0b086cab751dn%40googlegroups.com
>> <http://40googlegroups.com/><http://40googlegroups.com
>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>>
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>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/bf07780c->
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>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/>
>> > bf07780c-e6b9-4f89->
>> > > b539-0b086cab751dn%40googlegroups.com

>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>?
>> > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40googlegroups.com
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>> > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
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[Sidney Hirschman]

Great, thanks both.

Would changing the boat names from quotes to italics (and similar style swaps that require deletions) be considered editorial?

[Robin Whittleton]

Personally, I don’t. For example, we don’t require an editorial commit to change en-GB to en-US quote marks. This is more of a “house style” thing.

-Robin

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[Sidney Hirschman]

OK, thanks. Good to know, since there's a lot of that in here. 

I humbly submit Summer Evening, Wheatfield with Setting Sun by Van Gogh for the cover of this ebook. Since the book is about wheat, at least conceptually... but the painting still incorporates a bit of a cityscape, where the book takes place (although it's obviously not Chicago!).

[Alex Cabal]

Unfortunately that small town look nothing like Chicago of the era, I
don't think it would work as a cityscape. It might work as a kind of
abstract cover if you cropped it to only the wheat, so it's a big yellow
cover; otherwise I suggest an actual big cityscape, since the book is
set in the city and not the farm.

On 10/2/25 11:35 AM, Sidney Hirschman wrote:
> OK, thanks. Good to know, since there's a lot of that in here.
>

> summer-evening-wheatfield-with-setting-sun-vincent-van-gogh-1888-arles-
> bouches-du-rhone-france-1.jpg
> I humbly submit /Summer Evening, Wheatfield with Setting Sun /by Van

> Gogh for the cover of this ebook. Since the book is about wheat, at
> least conceptually... but the painting still incorporates a bit of a
> cityscape, where the book takes place (although it's obviously not
> Chicago!).
>
> On Thursday, October 2, 2025 at 2:52:10 AM UTC-4 robin wrote:
>
> Personally, I don’t. For example, we don’t require an editorial
> commit to change en-GB to en-US quote marks. This is more of a
> “house style” thing.
>
> -Robin
>
>> On 1 Oct 2025, at 21:52, Sidney Hirschman <sidneyh...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Great, thanks both.
>>
>> Would changing the boat names from quotes to italics (and similar
>> style swaps that require deletions) be considered editorial?
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 1, 2025 at 1:54:22 PM UTC-4 Alex Cabal wrote:
>>
>> Not sure about the single quotes. I would just remove them, I
>> don't even
>> have a guess as to why they're there.
>>
>> Character names are not quoted
>>
>> On 10/1/25 12:50 PM, Robin Whittleton wrote:
>> > 1. That’s definitely odd, never seen anything like that
>> before. I
>> > checked a more modern (2013) edition out fromarchive.org

>> <http://archive.org/><http://
>> >archive.org <http://archive.org/>> and they’ve swapped them

>> around. That doesn’t seem to make
>> > sense either though.
>> >
>> > Screenshot 2025-10-01 at 19.34.06.png
>> >
>> > Potentially I might replace it with emphasis italics in an
>> [Editorial]
>> > commit? Alex: any opinions here?
>> >
>> > 2. You can remove those quotes; make sure that you do that
>> in a commit
>> > prefaced with [Editorial] (as per spelling modernisation, etc)
>> >
>> > 3. I think that we should italicise all of these: they’re all
>> > deliberately referencing a name a ship could have. Do this
>> in a separate
>> > commit so that if we change out mind we can revert it though.
>> >
>> > 4. Leave the quote in here.
>> >
>> > 5. Italicise if it’s a reference to the overall work, quotes
>> if it’s the
>> > character. So for example: “the opening movement of the
>> overture of /
>> > Carmen/.” vs. “I wish I had dressed as ‘Carmen,’ and I would
>> have danced
>> > for you.”
>> >
>> > 6. Hyphens, and italicise it as perhttps://

>> standardebooks.org/ <https://standardebooks.org/>
>> > manual/1.8.4/single-page#8.2.6 <https://standardebooks.org/
>> manual/1.8.4/ <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.4/>

>> details/ <https://archive.org/details/>

>> >> pit0000fran_i1s9/page/98/mode/2up>, their order dialogue has an
>> >> elision/apostrophe/right quote at the front.
>> >>
>> >> Has anyone ever seen anything like that before? It seems to
>> be there
>> >> for a reason, since it appears on /all/ and /only/ the buy/
>> sell order
>> >> dialogue.
>> >>
>> >> 2.There's a passage where <https://archive.org/details/
>> <https://archive.org/details/>
>> >> pit0000fran_i1s9/page/150/mode/2up>Norris puts quotes
>> around the word
>> >> "stoop," as if it's a newly-minted slang word. Same with
>> "tag" and "I-
>> >> spy." Would modernizing include taking the quotes off words
>> that
>> >> everyone knows at this point?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 3.When the girls are suggesting names for the yacht <https://
>> >>archive.org/details/pit0000fran_i1s9/page/174/mode/2up

>> <http://archive.org/details/pit0000fran_i1s9/page/174/

>> mode/2up>>, should I
>> >> leave the quotes when I italicize the ship names or should
>> I lose
>> >> them? It feels a bit different when it's suggestions within
>> dialogue.
>> >> (And there's "stoop" again.)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 4. Same spread: It seems "the Farragut" is some sort of
>> yacht club.
>> >> Should I remove its quotes?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 5.The names Theodora and Carmen <https://archive.org/

>> details/ <https://archive.org/details/>

>> >> pit0000fran_i1s9/page/308/mode/2up>are both the character
>> names /
>> >> and/ the names of the operas. Should either of them be
>> italicized?
>> >> Should I remove their quotes?
>> >>
>> >> 6. Occasionally, Jadwin hears a noise in his ears that goes
>> "wheat-
>> >> wheat-wheat." It is sometimes styled with hyphens,
>> sometimes with em-
>> >> dashes. Should I regularize, and if so, to which?
>> >>
>> >> 7. Should I use normal letter formatting if the letter is
>> being read
>> >> aloud in its entirety, including the signature? Seepages
>> 415–417.
>> >> <https://archive.org/details/pit0000fran_i1s9/page/414/

>> mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/pit0000fran_i1s9/

>> page/414/mode/2up>>
>> >>
>> >> Thanks all.
>> >>
>> >> Sid
>> >>
>> >> p.s. I tried to post this before with screenshots of the
>> pages for
>> >> easier reading but Google Groups wouldn't post it :(
>> >> On Tuesday, September 30, 2025 at 11:11:47 AM UTC-4 Alex
>> Cabal wrote:
>> >>
>> >> OK, Robin will manage this with Lukas reviewing.
>> >>
>> >> On 9/30/25 8:30 AM, Sidney Hirschman wrote:
>> >> > Great! The repo is here:https://github.com/s-dney/frank-

>> <https://github.com/s-dney/frank->
>> >> norris_the-pit <https://github.com/s-dney/frank-norris_the-

>> >>standardebooks.org/manual <http://standardebooks.org/manual>>>
>> >> >
>> >> >https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics
>> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics><https://
>> >>standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics <http://

>> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics>><https://
>> >> >standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics <http://

>> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics><http://

>> >>standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics <http://
>> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics>>>
>> >> >
>> >> >https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-
>> structural- <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-
>> level-structural->

>> >> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-
>> structural- <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-
>> level-structural->>
>> >> > patterns <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-
>> high-level- <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-
>> level->

>> >> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-
>> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level->>
>> >> > structural-patterns>
>> >> >
>> >> >https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography

>> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography><https://

>> >>standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography <http://
>> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography>><https://
>> >> >standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography <http://

>> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography><http://

>> >>standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography <http://
>> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography>>>
>> >> >
>> >> > The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:
>> >> >
>> >> >https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-
>> step-by- <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-
>> ebook-step-by->

>> >> <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-
>> step-by- <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-
>> ebook-step-by->>
>> >> > step <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-
>> ebook- <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook->
>> >> step- <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-
>> ebook-step- <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-

>> an-ebook-step->>
>> >> > by-step>
>> >> >
>> >> > This page on common issues in older books may be useful:
>> >> >
>> >> >https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/common-
>> issues-when- <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/
>> common-issues-when->

>> >> <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/common-
>> issues-when- <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/
>> common-issues-when->>
>> >> > working-on-public-domain-ebooks <https://
>> standardebooks.org/ <https://standardebooks.org/>
>> >> <https://standardebooks.org/ <https://standardebooks.org/>>
>> >> > contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-working-on-public-
>> domain-

>> >> ebooks>
>> >> >
>> >> > Please email often if you have any questions at all. Our
>> >> standards are
>> >> > well-established so there is probably already a standard for
>> >> formatting
>> >> > whatever problem you've encountered.
>> >> >
>> >> > When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github
>> >> repository so
>> >> > that I can mark you as having started.
>> >> >
>> >> > Have fun! :)
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On 9/29/25 5:57 PM, Sidney Hirschman wrote:
>> >> > > Hi all,
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Since /The Pit: A Story of Chicago/ is on the Wanted
>> list and
>> >> > Gijs van
>> >> > > Tulder has just produced its companion /The Octopus/, I
>> thought
>> >> > it would
>> >> > > make a great first project, if that's okay.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Transcription:https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/4382
>> <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/4382><https://

>> >>www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/4382 <http://www.gutenberg.org/

>> ebooks/4382>><https://
>> >> >www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/4382 <http://www.gutenberg.org/

>> ebooks/4382><http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/4382 <http://

>> www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/4382>>>
>> >> > > Page scans:https://archive.org/details/pit0000fran_i1s9
>> <https://archive.org/details/pit0000fran_i1s9>
>> >> <https://archive.org/details/pit0000fran_i1s9 <https://
>> archive.org/details/pit0000fran_i1s9>>
>> >> > <https://archive.org/details/pit0000fran_i1s9 <https://

>> archive.org/details/pit0000fran_i1s9><https://
>> >>archive.org/details/pit0000fran_i1s9 <http://archive.org/
>> details/pit0000fran_i1s9>>>
>> >> > > Wikipedia:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
>> The_Pit_(Norris_novel) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
>> The_Pit_(Norris_novel)>
>> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pit_(Norris_novel)

>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pit_(Norris_novel)>>
>> >> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pit_(Norris_novel)
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pit_(Norris_novel)><https://

>> >>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pit_(Norris_novel) <http://

>> d/ <http://groups.google.com/d/>
>> >> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://

>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>
>> >> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://
>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/><https://groups.google.com/
>> <https://groups.google.com/>
>> >> d/msgid/>>
>> >> > > standardebooks/bf07780c-e6b9-4f89-
>> >> > b539-0b086cab751dn%40googlegroups.com
>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>

>> >> <http://40googlegroups.com/ <http://40googlegroups.com/
>> >><http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com/>
>> >> <http://40googlegroups.com/ <http://40googlegroups.com/>>>
>> >> > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
>> bf07780c- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
>> bf07780c->

>> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/bf07780c-
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>> >> > e6b9-4f89- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>> standardebooks/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>> standardebooks/>
>> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
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>> >> > bf07780c-e6b9-4f89->
>> >> > > b539-0b086cab751dn%40googlegroups.com
>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>

>> >> <http://40googlegroups.com/ <http://40googlegroups.com/>>?

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[Sidney Hirschman]

Ah, OK. I'd like to use something with people or buildings. There are some nice oil paintings of the Chicago World's Fair by Childe Hassam, but they're not in the books about him published before 1930.

Therefore, I suggest The Ballet from "Robert le Diable"  by Degas, found here: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/436123

Which, while perhaps more evocative of an orchestra pit, represents very well the first scenes of the book, which take place in an opera house. It also has a great empty space at the bottom for the title, like so:

And the audience isn't paying attention at all! (They are thinking of wheat futures.) Thoughts?

[Robin Whittleton]

Yep, I think that could work. I‘ve uploaded it to the artworks DB and assigned it to this project: https://standardebooks.org/artworks/edgar-degas/the-ballet-from-robert-le-diable

-Robin

On 2 Oct 2025, at 23:48, Sidney Hirschman <sidneyh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ah, OK. I'd like to use something with people or buildings. There are some nice oil paintings of the Chicago World's Fair by Childe Hassam, but they're not in the books about him published before 1930.

Therefore, I suggest The Ballet from "Robert le Diable"  by Degas, found here: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/436123

Which, while perhaps more evocative of an orchestra pit, represents very well the first scenes of the book, which take place in an opera house. It also has a great empty space at the bottom for the title, like so:

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