Determining BISAC subject codes for the SE corpus

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Asher Smith

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Mar 18, 2022, 1:07:48 PMMar 18
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Hey all - I've been working on a project to get the SE corpus onto the Apple Books store. Long story short, I need to generate .itmsp files, which is a fairly doable task as they're fairly simple files and most of the metadata.xml file needed there can be pulled from out content.opf file. The one place where I need help is the following: how do I determine the subjects of a book based on the LoC subjects we give them?

BISAC codes are determined by the Book Industry Study Group, and the full list is here. Taking the example of my current project, one of the subject codes we give it is mythology; this is something that I would map to "SOC011000 SOCIAL SCIENCE / Folklore & Mythology" from the BISAC code system, but that's based on a manual search.

Does anybody have any ideas about how I can do this automatically for the multiple subjects in each of our 644 volumes? I can't imagine doing this manually for each of them, and I'd like to not just resort to "FIC000000 FICTION / General" or the like.

B Keith

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Mar 18, 2022, 3:15:52 PMMar 18
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BISAC codes are used primarily for marketing and tracking sales. If it was me, and it is possible, I would just map them to the SE subjects and let it go at that.

B

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Asher Smith

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Mar 18, 2022, 3:23:17 PMMar 18
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Oh, ignore the loc subjects entirely?

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B Keith

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Mar 18, 2022, 3:54:07 PMMar 18
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I don’t see why not. Then again I don’t exactly know what the itmsp calls for. But BISAC is all about selling books and that’s not all that high on our list

Asher Smith

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Mar 22, 2022, 9:34:37 AMMar 22
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It looks like comedy is only used for fiction - none of our nonfiction corpus get that designation, even if they're humorous. Is strictly true or just generally true?

Also, is the colophon the only place that we have an original publication date? I need to get that into a standard date string, and there doesn't seem to be anything like that in any of the metadata that's more easily parseable. For books several hundred years old, I can just put the first of january for that year, but for more modern books there should be an actual day and date, right?

Anthony J. Bentley

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Mar 22, 2022, 10:38:15 AMMar 22
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Three Men in a Boat is marked both “comedy” and “nonfiction.”

Alex Cabal

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Mar 22, 2022, 10:42:23 AMMar 22
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The original publication date in the colophon is information only,
because many books were published serially before being published as
novels, or went through otherwise complex publication histories that
make picking a single first publication date an open question. For
online bookstores, they typically mean the date of publication of the
specific edition, which is <dc:date>.
>>> <https://bisg.org/page/BISACEdition>. Taking the example of
>>> my current project, one of the subject codes we give it is
>>> mythology <https://lccn.loc.gov/sh85089371>; this is
>>> something that I would map to "SOC011000 *SOCIAL SCIENCE* /
>>> Folklore & Mythology"
>>> <https://bisg.org/page/SocialScience> from the BISAC code
>>> system, but that's based on a manual search.
>>>
>>> Does anybody have any ideas about how I can do this
>>> automatically for the multiple subjects in each of our 644
>>> volumes? I can't imagine doing this manually for each of
>>> them, and I'd like to not just resort to "FIC000000 FICTION /
>>> General" <https://bisg.org/page/Fiction> or the like.
>>>
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Asher Smith

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Mar 23, 2022, 8:48:16 PMMar 23
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OK, that all makes sense. My instinct was to mimic what some other publications seem to do and put a year of original publication in.

The itmsp metadata file has room for a lot of contributors as well as the primary author. My best guess of how to port these over is as follows:
  • All the dc:creator roles get designated as primary contributors and authors
  • If there is a dc:contributor that wrote a foreword or footnotes or some supplemental text, they should be included as non-primary contributors; there are roles for these positions (e.g. "foreword by," "notes by," etc.)
  • If there is a translator, they should be a primary contributor with the role "translated by"
  • If there is an illustrator, they should be a primary contributor with the role "illustrator"
  • The painter of the cover art should be included as a non-primary contributor as "cover design or artwork by"
  • SE contributors (including proofreaders) should be included as non-primary contributors with the role "prepared for publication by"
  • Alex will be included as a non-primary contributor with the role "editor-in-chief" (should this be "founder"? that's also a role available.)
  • The League of Movable Type should be excluded, though they have a dc:contributor in our content.opf - there is no role for type designer
Here are my questions:
  • Do I include the rest of the SE editorial team as editors? There is a role for "editorial board member," and there's also "editorial coordination by," "general editor," and "managing editor."
  • Do I include all of the PG proofreaders? There is no default role for transcriber, so they would have to be non-primary contributors as "prepared for publication by"
I think it's also going to be a bit tricky to ensure I'm getting the series info right - I'll have to loop through the collection tags where the collection type is series - but I think I understand what needs to be done.

Alex Cabal

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Mar 24, 2022, 12:37:50 PMMar 24
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I think that all sounds good. No need to include the entire team of
editors as their role is mainly to review ebooks, so if they reviewed a
book their name will be in there already. I think you can include the PG
producers too, that would be nice.

On 3/23/22 7:48 PM, Asher Smith wrote:
> OK, that all makes sense. My instinct was to mimic what some other
> publications seem to do and put a year of original publication in.
>
> The itmsp metadata file has room for a lot of contributors as well as
> the primary author. My best guess of how to port these over is as follows:
>
> * All the dc:creator roles get designated as primary contributors and
> authors
> * If there is a dc:contributor that wrote a foreword or footnotes or
> some supplemental text, they should be included as non-primary
> contributors; there are roles for these positions (e.g. "foreword
> by," "notes by," etc.)
> * If there is a translator, they should be a primary contributor with
> the role "translated by"
> * If there is an illustrator, they should be a primary contributor
> with the role "illustrator"
> * The painter of the cover art should be included as a non-primary
> contributor as "cover design or artwork by"
> * SE contributors (including proofreaders) should be included as
> non-primary contributors with the role "prepared for publication by"
> * Alex will be included as a non-primary contributor with the role
> "editor-in-chief" (should this be "founder"? that's also a role
> available.)
> * The League of Movable Type should be excluded, though they have a
> dc:contributor in our content.opf - there is no role for type designer
>
> Here are my questions:
>
> * Do I include the rest of the SE editorial team as editors? There is
> a role for "editorial board member," and there's also "editorial
> coordination by," "general editor," and "managing editor."
> * Do I include all of the PG proofreaders? There is no default role
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/d56f7c3b-5669-4f6b-b2f2-90211f2a405dn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
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Asher Smith

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Mar 24, 2022, 8:49:14 PMMar 24
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OK, here are the different roles and my proposed role for each
  • annotator -> notes by
  • artist -> cover design or artwork by
  • author-of-afterword -> afterword by
  • author-of-introduction -> introduction by
  • author-of-preface -> preface by
  • cartographer -> maps by
  • commentator -> commentaries by
  • compiler -> compiled by
  • contributor -> contributions by
  • editor -> edited by
  • foreword -> foreword by
  • illustrator -> illustrated by
  • introduction -> introduction by
  • markup-editor -> prepared for publication by
  • preface -> preface by
  • preface-writer -> preface by
  • producer -> prepared for publication by
  • proofreader -> prepared for publication by
  • publisher-2 -> edited by
  • sponsor -> NOT INCLUDED
  • transcriber -> prepared for publication by
  • translator -> translated by
  • type-designer -> NOT INCLUDED
  • writer-of-foreword -> foreword by
  • writer-of-introduction -> introduction by
  • writer-of-introduction-letter -> introduction by
  • writer-of-preface -> preface by
Also, some unrelated things I found:
  • Epictetus's Discourses has a "tranlator", not a "translator"
  • The Autobiography of an Ex-Colored Man is the only book to list another publisher (Sherman, French, & Company)
  • Seven Pillars of Wisdom has 17 artists, which seems wild to me - should they be listed as illustrators?
  • Aesop's Fables, Gitanjali, Wilfred Owen's Poetry, Poe's Short Fiction, The Enormous Room, and Tristram Shandy have just "introduction" and Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass has "writer-of-introduction-letter" - all these should either be author-of-introduction or writer-of-introduction. On that note, should we standardise to one of those things? Both are used
  • Likewise, Frankenstein just has "preface" and My Brilliant Career has "preface-writer" and both author-of-preface and writer-of-preface

Alex Cabal

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Mar 25, 2022, 2:14:23 PMMar 25
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Re the naming of IDs, you shouldn't go off of the IDs; instead, parse
the roles first, and match the roles to the IDs to which they apply.

It probably would make sense to standardize on the IDs as a matter of
code cleanliness - if someone wants to take a shot at that as a PR
against the manual, go for it.

Seven Pillars does indeed have that many illustrators - it's heavy with
illustrations, all by many different people.

On 3/24/22 7:49 PM, Asher Smith wrote:
> OK, here are the different roles and my proposed role for each
>
> * annotator -> notes by
> * artist -> cover design or artwork by
> * author-of-afterword -> afterword by
> * author-of-introduction -> introduction by
> * author-of-preface -> preface by
> * cartographer -> maps by
> * commentator -> commentaries by
> * compiler -> compiled by
> * contributor -> contributions by
> * editor -> edited by
> * foreword -> foreword by
> * illustrator -> illustrated by
> * introduction -> introduction by
> * markup-editor -> prepared for publication by
> * preface -> preface by
> * preface-writer -> preface by
> * producer -> prepared for publication by
> * proofreader -> prepared for publication by
> * publisher-2 -> edited by
> * sponsor -> NOT INCLUDED
> * transcriber -> prepared for publication by
> * translator -> translated by
> * type-designer -> NOT INCLUDED
> * writer-of-foreword -> foreword by
> * writer-of-introduction -> introduction by
> * writer-of-introduction-letter -> introduction by
> * writer-of-preface -> preface by
>
> Also, some unrelated things I found:
>
> * Epictetus's Discourses has a "tranlator", not a "translator"
> * The Autobiography of an Ex-Colored Man is the only book to list
> another publisher (Sherman, French, & Company)
> * Seven Pillars of Wisdom has 17 artists, which seems wild to me -
> should they be listed as illustrators?
> * Aesop's Fables, Gitanjali, Wilfred Owen's Poetry, Poe's Short
> Fiction, The Enormous Room, and Tristram Shandy have just
> "introduction" and Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass has
> "writer-of-introduction-letter" - all these should either be
> author-of-introduction or writer-of-introduction. On that note,
> should we standardise to one of those things? Both are used
> * Likewise, Frankenstein just has "preface" and My Brilliant Career
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>
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Asher Smith

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Mar 25, 2022, 8:13:41 PMMar 25
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I’m resistant to the idea of doing it that way, though I agree it is the correct way of doing it, because of the question of how to deal with contributors with multiple roles. I think it will take a good chunk of time to develop the logic of which roles take precedence and which roles encompass other roles, and in the meantime the role they’ve been assigned by the producer is a human-arbited primary role. Unless you think it is genuinely essential for a version 1.0, I’m going to add it to my list of other developments that are needed, along with things like changing the words per page based on if the production is drama/poetry/prose.

I’ll put in PRs for some of the below and start a new thread to talk specifically about ID standardisation.


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Alex Cabal

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Mar 25, 2022, 8:18:58 PMMar 25
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The primary role is always `property="role"`. Secondary roles are
`property="se:role"`. See
https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.6.3/9-metadata#9.10.5

If there is `property="display-seq">0<` then that contributor should be
ignored for purposes of the credits. See
https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.6.3/9-metadata#9.10.4

Note that this will change in the future whenever the new version of the
epub spec is released, which will allow for multiple roles on one
contributor. When that happens, the primary role will be the first one
in document order.

You really should parse roles and not the IDs, the roles are meant to be
authoritative, and the IDs are arbitrary.

On 3/25/22 7:13 PM, Asher Smith wrote:
> I’m resistant to the idea of doing it that way, though I agree it is the
> correct way of doing it, because of the question of how to deal with
> contributors with multiple roles. I think it will take a good chunk of
> time to develop the logic of which roles take precedence and which roles
> encompass other roles, and in the meantime the role they’ve been
> assigned by the producer is a human-arbited primary role. Unless you
> think it is genuinely essential for a version 1.0, I’m going to add it
> to my list of other developments that are needed, along with things like
> changing the words per page based on if the production is
> drama/poetry/prose.
>
> I’ll put in PRs for some of the below and start a new thread to talk
> specifically about ID standardisation.
>
>> On 25 Mar 2022, at 18:14, Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org
>>>    <forlackofa...@gmail.com <http://gmail.com>>
>>>     > >> wrote:
>>>     > >>
>>>     > >> Oh, ignore the loc subjects entirely?
>>>     > >>
>>>     > >> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022, 7:15 PM B Keith <bois...@gmail.com
>>> <http://gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>     > >>
>>>     > >> BISAC codes are used primarily for marketing and tracking
>>>     > >> sales. If it was me, and it is possible, I would just map them
>>>     > >> to the SE subjects and let it go at that.
>>>     > >>
>>>     > >> B
>>>     > >>
>>>     > >>> On Mar 18, 2022, at 11:07 AM, Asher Smith
>>> <http://googlegroups.com/>.
>>>     > >>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>     > >>>
>>>     >
>>> <http://googlegroups.com/>.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/CACu8gWWNqzRy2DXio9n_aj7soTtiSVgCz0pQZBaNjztUUnShNw%40mail.gmail.com
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Asher Smith

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Mar 25, 2022, 9:02:38 PMMar 25
to standar...@googlegroups.com
Oh, that makes sense, and is much more doable that I thought it would be. Perhaps less resilient to epub format changes, but that’s easily enough addressed by addressing the first entry.
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Asher Smith

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Mar 26, 2022, 7:06:25 PMMar 26
to Standard Ebooks
I've gone for a method where I look for producer first, as there are a number of roles that fall under that and for some, like annotator, it's conceivable that someone not involved with the production of the ebook has already contributed to that. After that, it's based on marc:relator.

Some other notes, based on this guide to the metadata from Apple.
  1. I'm not convinced that the broader subjects are going to be accepted - they say that "The subject category needs to best describe the book" and say they might remove books if they don't. They also say only 2 subjects are allowed, which could be a problem.
  2. The release date of our edition isn't what the guidelines want - they say "The original publication date needs to match the first release date of either the digital or physical product, whichever one occurs first, regardless of the publisher." Nonetheless, an initial look through the store suggests that this is very inconsistent, so I think we can get away with it.
I'm not proposing changing the method discussed above, though I do wonder about adding a primary BISAC subject and/or an original publication year (or latest year applicable in the case of serial release) to the metadata.

B Keith

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Mar 26, 2022, 8:47:40 PMMar 26
to Standard Ebooks
I rally think you are misinterpreting the info.

If you as a publisher  publish an edition of The Three Musketeers  the pub date is the date your edition was published regardless of the original date of publication. If we were to accept that SE books are reprints of the scanned images then I guess your logic would hold but in fact they are their own editions and so  have a current pub date.

The sentence you quoted is likely referring to a digital edition of a printed book. If the book is Foundations Edge first published in 1982 and the digital version of that edition was published in  2015 then they want the 1982 date.

As for the BISAC codes, again this is for tracking sales data (and Apple is all about data). We don't care. So just grab the closest BISAC code to the the SE subject, or if you insist, closest to the LoC subject. Trust me people spend hours and hours trying to refine their BISAC codes and hardly a month goes by without me receiving another notice about another webinar on how to best hone your skills. Its just not relevant to us since we aren’t particularly keen on eeking out that last bit of sales out of the project. Give Apple the listings they want and don’t sweat it. :-)

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Asher Smith

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Mar 26, 2022, 8:52:38 PMMar 26
to standar...@googlegroups.com
Regardless of the interpretation of that language, the Apple Books Classics line has the publication date for Romeo and Juliet as 31/12/1597, so that’s clearly what they internally want to see. Meanwhile, there are other editions of R&J that list any number of other dates as the publication date, so they’re clearly tolerating that as well.

I’m more than happy to not go too deep into the BISAC codes if we don’t have to. It’s certainly not worth worrying about until Apple informs us that we’re doing it wrong and need to change it.

Alex Cabal

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Mar 27, 2022, 2:02:58 PMMar 27
to standar...@googlegroups.com
Yeah but R&J is a great example of why it doesn't make sense to fixate
on the "original" pub date. 1597 was the first printing of R&J, but that
edition was considered to be an erroneous pirated edition that differed
significantly from the play we know today, which was actually published
later, in 1599. So was R&J *really* published in 1597 if that edition
was pirated and wrong?

The point is that discerning the first publication date of these old
texts with complex histories is often a matter of interpretation without
a clear answer.

And Apple really, really doesn't care about that, certainly not for
books that they aren't making money off of. As Bruce pointed out,
they're actually referring to the first publication of *a specific
edition* of a book, and ours are *unique editions* whose "first
publication date" is <dc:date>.

On 3/26/22 7:52 PM, Asher Smith wrote:
> Regardless of the interpretation of that language, the Apple Books
> Classics line has the publication date for /Romeo and Juliet/ as
> 31/12/1597, so that’s clearly what they internally want to see.
> Meanwhile, there are other editions of R&J that list any number of other
> dates as the publication date, so they’re clearly tolerating that as well.
>
> I’m more than happy to not go too deep into the BISAC codes if we don’t
> have to. It’s certainly not worth worrying about until Apple informs us
> that we’re doing it wrong and need to change it.
>
>> On 27 Mar 2022, at 00:47, B Keith <bois...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:bois...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I rally think you are misinterpreting the info.
>>
>> If you as a publisher  publish an edition of/The Three Musketeers /the
>> pub date is the date/your/edition was published regardless of the
>> original date of publication. If we were to accept that SE books are
>> reprints of the scanned images then I guess your logic would hold but
>> in fact they are their own editions and so  have a current pub date.
>>
>> The sentence you quoted is likely referring to a digital edition of a
>> printed book. If the book is/Foundations Edge/first published in 1982
>> and the digital version of that edition was published in  2015 then
>> they want the 1982 date.
>>
>> As for the BISAC codes, again this is for tracking sales data (and
>> Apple is all about data). We don't care. So just grab the closest
>> BISAC code to the the SE subject, or if you insist, closest to the LoC
>> subject. Trust me people spend hours and hours trying to refine their
>> BISAC codes and hardly a month goes by without me receiving another
>> notice about another webinar on how to best hone your skills. Its just
>> not relevant to us since we aren’t particularly keen on eeking out
>> that last bit of sales out of the project. Give Apple the listings
>> they want and don’t sweat it. :-)
>>
>>> On Mar 26, 2022, at 5:06 PM, Asher Smith
>>> <forlackofa...@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:forlackofa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've gone for a method where I look for producer first, as there are
>>> a number of roles that fall under that and for some, like annotator,
>>> it's conceivable that someone not involved with the production of the
>>> ebook has already contributed to that. After that, it's based on
>>> marc:relator.
>>>
>>> Some other notes, based onthis guide
>>> <https://help.apple.com/itc/applebooksstoreformatting/en.lproj/static.html>to
>>> the metadata from Apple.
>>>
>>> 1. I'm not convinced that the broader subjects are going to be
>>> accepted - they say that "The subject category needs to best
>>> describe the book" and say they might remove books if they don't.
>>> They also say only 2 subjects are allowed, which could be a problem.
>>> 2. The release date of our edition isn't what the guidelines want -
>>> >>>> <forlackofa...@gmail.com<http://gmail.com <http://gmail.com/>>>
>>> >>>> > >> wrote:
>>> >>>> > >>
>>> >>>> > >> Oh, ignore the loc subjects entirely?
>>> >>>> > >>
>>> >>>> > >> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022, 7:15 PM B Keith
>>> <bois...@gmail.com<http://gmail.com <http://gmail.com/>>> wrote:
>>> >>>> > >>
>>> >>>> > >> BISAC codes are used primarily for marketing and tracking
>>> >>>> > >> sales. If it was me, and it is possible, I would just
>>> map them
>>> >>>> > >> to the SE subjects and let it go at that.
>>> >>>> > >>
>>> >>>> > >> B
>>> >>>> > >>
>>> >>>> > >>> On Mar 18, 2022, at 11:07 AM, Asher Smith
>>> >>>> > >>> <forlackofa...@gmail.com<http://gmail.com
>>> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com<http://googlegroups.com/ <http://googlegroups.com/>>>.
>>> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com<http://googlegroups.com/ <http://googlegroups.com/>>>.
>>> >>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>>https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/941fcc71-9926-4e04-9d29-ed3fe2e013abn%40googlegroups.com
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/941fcc71-9926-4e04-9d29-ed3fe2e013abn%40googlegroups.com><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/941fcc71-9926-4e04-9d29-ed3fe2e013abn%40googlegroups.com
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/941fcc71-9926-4e04-9d29-ed3fe2e013abn%40googlegroups.com>>
>>> >>>>
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/941fcc71-9926-4e04-9d29-ed3fe2e013abn%40googlegroups.com
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/941fcc71-9926-4e04-9d29-ed3fe2e013abn%40googlegroups.com><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/941fcc71-9926-4e04-9d29-ed3fe2e013abn%40googlegroups.com
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/941fcc71-9926-4e04-9d29-ed3fe2e013abn%40googlegroups.com>>>
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>>
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/941fcc71-9926-4e04-9d29-ed3fe2e013abn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/941fcc71-9926-4e04-9d29-ed3fe2e013abn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/941fcc71-9926-4e04-9d29-ed3fe2e013abn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
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>>> >>>>
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>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/941fcc71-9926-4e04-9d29-ed3fe2e013abn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/941fcc71-9926-4e04-9d29-ed3fe2e013abn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
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>>> >>>
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Asher Smith

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Mar 27, 2022, 7:47:11 PMMar 27
to Standard Ebooks
I've got a working first version of the script, and have generated submission files for the whole library. It seems to be going well, with the exception of the 17 books in the library that only have the se:subject "nonfiction", which doesn't have a BISAC equivalent. You can see them here. There's probably an argument that books shouldn't have just "fiction" or "nonfiction" as a subject because they don't serve the purpose mentioned in the manual ("they’re more like the subject categories in a small bookstore"). Some of those can also be given Autobiography/Memoir, and a couple can be given Spirituality, but there are a few (e.g. The Origin of Species) that don't fit any other categories and are going to have to be given a BISAC category by hand or something. I'm going to get the rest submitted before I worry about that.

Alex Cabal

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Mar 27, 2022, 7:58:20 PMMar 27
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Great work, thanks! Glad to see we can have this scripted after all.

On 3/27/22 6:47 PM, Asher Smith wrote:
> I've got a working first version of the script, and have generated
> submission files for the whole library. It seems to be going well, with
> the exception of the 17 books in the library that only have the
> se:subject "nonfiction", which doesn't have a BISAC equivalent. You can
> see them here
> <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Xt_LkEZhxzRff7KvbGbtZwMPXB12b0ho3KDGUARL4yg/edit?usp=sharing>.
> <http://standardebooks.org/manual/1.6.3/9-metadata#9.10.5>
> >>> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.6.3/9-metadata#9.10.5
> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.6.3/9-metadata#9.10.5>>
> >>> >
> >>> > If there is `property="display-seq">0<` then that contributor
> >>> should be ignored for purposes of the credits.
> >>> Seehttps://standardebooks.org/manual/1.6.3/9-metadata#9.10.4
> <http://standardebooks.org/manual/1.6.3/9-metadata#9.10.4>
> <http://gmail.com> <http://gmail.com/ <http://gmail.com/>>>>
> >>> >>>> > >> wrote:
> >>> >>>> > >>
> >>> >>>> > >> Oh, ignore the loc subjects entirely?
> >>> >>>> > >>
> >>> >>>> > >> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022, 7:15 PM B Keith
> >>> <bois...@gmail.com<http://gmail.com <http://gmail.com>
> <http://gmail.com/ <http://gmail.com/>>>> wrote:
> >>> >>>> > >>
> >>> >>>> > >> BISAC codes are used primarily for marketing and
> tracking
> >>> >>>> > >> sales. If it was me, and it is possible, I would just
> >>> map them
> >>> >>>> > >> to the SE subjects and let it go at that.
> >>> >>>> > >>
> >>> >>>> > >> B
> >>> >>>> > >>
> >>> >>>> > >>> On Mar 18, 2022, at 11:07 AM, Asher Smith
> >>> >>>> > >>> <forlackofa...@gmail.com<http://gmail.com
> <http://gmail.com>
> <http://googlegroups.com/> <http://googlegroups.com/
> <http://googlegroups.com/> <http://googlegroups.com/
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>
> >>>
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/e11e9e33-e2d8-560a-5c89-226f19ea73d8%40standardebooks.org
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/e11e9e33-e2d8-560a-5c89-226f19ea73d8%40standardebooks.org>>.
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Asher Smith

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Mar 28, 2022, 9:05:04 PMMar 28
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A couple issues with submissions, but a lot of successes.

For the work that has been labelled as Children’s, do we have an opinion on how to assign an age range? That’s a required thing if we want it listed as juvenile fiction. One option is that I just assign them all to 12+ (regardless of what would be appropriate), and the other is I just assign them the default fiction code, ignoring that code entirely. The latter is a simpler option, but is probably less likely to make the books be easily discoverable.

We apparently can’t declare the glossary in the opf file. This looks to me to be the same epubcheck error as Alex raised here; this might mean that they’re using an outdated version of epubcheck, in which case I’m not quite sure what the recourse is.

Where the only subject is Nonfiction or Shorts, it’s not happy as there’s no BISAC equivalent.

Some of our images are too large.

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Alex Cabal

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Mar 28, 2022, 9:50:29 PMMar 28
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On 3/28/22 8:04 PM, Asher Smith wrote:
> A couple issues with submissions, but a lot of successes.
>
> For the work that has been labelled as Children’s, do we have an opinion
> on how to assign an age range? That’s a required thing if we want it
> listed as juvenile fiction. One option is that I just assign them all to
> 12+ (regardless of what would be appropriate), and the other is I just
> assign them the default fiction code, ignoring that code entirely. The
> latter is a simpler option, but is probably less likely to make the
> books be easily discoverable.

I don't really have an opinion on that, I don't know much about age ranges.

> We apparently can’t declare the glossary in the opf file. This looks to
> me to be the same epubcheck error as Alex raised here
> <https://github.com/w3c/epubcheck/issues/1170>; this might mean that
> they’re using an outdated version of epubcheck, in which case I’m not
> quite sure what the recourse is.

Yes they must be using an old version of epubcheck. Nothing we can do
about that here except maybe let them know that.

> Some of our images are too large.

Yes that does seem to be far too large. I'll update that in the source.
Are there any other ebooks like that?

Vince

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Mar 29, 2022, 12:09:14 AMMar 29
to Standard Ebooks
On Mar 28, 2022, at 8:50 PM, Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org> wrote:

Yes that does seem to be far too large. I'll update that in the source. Are there any other ebooks like that?

That’s how big the source file was. The manual says “the full source image” (emphasis mine) and “in as high a resolution as possible.” Do we now have a size limit?

Alex Cabal

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Mar 29, 2022, 12:13:45 AMMar 29
to standar...@googlegroups.com
The error was referring to illustration-1 which was an SVG created by
the producer. It was just too large in dimension and since it's an SVG
it doesn't matter what we size it down to. So I just sized it down to
something more reasonable.

On 3/28/22 11:09 PM, Vince wrote:
>> On Mar 28, 2022, at 8:50 PM, Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org
>> <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>> wrote:
>> …
>> Yes that does seem to be far too large. I'll update that in the
>> source. Are there any other ebooks like that?
>
> That’s how big the source file was. The manual
> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.6.3/single-page#10.1> says “the
> /full/ source image” (emphasis mine) and “in as high a resolution as
> possible.” Do we now have a size limit?
>
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Vince

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Mar 29, 2022, 12:22:57 AMMar 29
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Yep, missed the name of the file in the message. But the filename says it was referring to the PNG, not the SVG, and resizing the PNG does have ramifications if the SVG needs to be re-created. (My local copy [I was the producer] of the SVG is only 65K, so the SVG shouldn’t have been any bigger than that.)

Alex Cabal

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Mar 29, 2022, 12:24:42 AMMar 29
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The error was referring to the image dimensions, not KB size. The PNG
gets auto-generated from the SVG during build.

On 3/28/22 11:22 PM, Vince wrote:
> Yep, missed the name of the file in the message. But the filename says
> it was referring to the PNG, not the SVG, and resizing the PNG does have
> ramifications if the SVG needs to be re-created. (My local copy [I was
> the producer] of the SVG is only 65K, so the SVG shouldn’t have been any
> bigger than that.)
>
>> On Mar 28, 2022, at 11:09 PM, Vince <vr_se...@letterboxes.org
>> <mailto:vr_se...@letterboxes.org>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mar 28, 2022, at 8:50 PM, Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org
>>> <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>> wrote:
>>> …
>>> Yes that does seem to be far too large. I'll update that in the
>>> source. Are there any other ebooks like that?
>>
>> That’s how big the source file was. The manual
>> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.6.3/single-page#10.1> says “the
>> /full/ source image” (emphasis mine) and “in as high a resolution as
>> possible.” Do we now have a size limit?
>
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Asher Smith

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Mar 29, 2022, 4:30:40 AMMar 29
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There have been a couple like that, including Erewhon. I’m going to make a full list of all the submission errors after I’ve attempted to submit the full corpus.
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Asher Smith

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Apr 25, 2022, 3:18:12 AMApr 25
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Twenty Years at Hull House also has the image size issue.

Convincing Apple to fix what I am sure is an epubcheck issue on their end is proving a little difficult, so books that have a glossary are probably not going to be uploaded this time.

Alex Cabal

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Apr 25, 2022, 8:37:35 PMApr 25
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What specific images in Hull House do they complain about?
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/615DA75F-B856-4883-84FF-21F8477DAFDD%40letterboxes.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
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Asher Smith

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Apr 26, 2022, 2:02:34 AMApr 26
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Same thing as before - dimensions.


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Alex Cabal

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Apr 26, 2022, 12:56:05 PMApr 26
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Yes, but which specific image(s)?

On 4/26/22 1:02 AM, Asher Smith wrote:
> Same thing as before - dimensions.
>
> On Tue, Apr 26, 2022, 2:37 AM Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org
> <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>> wrote:
>
> What specific images in Hull House do they complain about?
>
> On 4/25/22 2:18 AM, Asher Smith wrote:
> > Twenty Years at Hull House also has the image size issue.
> >
> > Convincing Apple to fix what I am sure is an epubcheck issue on
> their
> > end is proving a little difficult, so books that have a glossary are
> > probably not going to be uploaded this time.
> >
> > On Tuesday, March 29, 2022 at 9:30:40 AM UTC+1 Asher Smith wrote:
> >
> >     There have been a couple like that, including Erewhon. I’m
> going to
> >     make a full list of all the submission errors after I’ve
> attempted
> >     to submit the full corpus.
> >
> >      > On 29 Mar 2022, at 05:24, Alex Cabal
> <al...@standardebooks.org <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>>
> >     wrote:
> >      >
> >      > The error was referring to the image dimensions, not KB
> size. The
> >     PNG gets auto-generated from the SVG during build.
> >      >
> >      > On 3/28/22 11:22 PM, Vince wrote:
> >      >> Yep, missed the name of the file in the message. But the
> >     filename says it was referring to the PNG, not the SVG, and
> resizing
> >     the PNG does have ramifications if the SVG needs to be
> re-created.
> >     (My local copy [I was the producer] of the SVG is only 65K,
> so the
> >     SVG shouldn’t have been any bigger than that.)
> >      >>> On Mar 28, 2022, at 11:09 PM, Vince
> <vr_se...@letterboxes.org <mailto:vr_se...@letterboxes.org>
> >     <mailto:vr_se...@letterboxes.org
> <mailto:vr_se...@letterboxes.org>>> wrote:
> >      >>>
> >      >>>> On Mar 28, 2022, at 8:50 PM, Alex Cabal
> >     <al...@standardebooks.org <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>
> <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>>>
> wrote:
> >      >>>> …
> >      >>>> Yes that does seem to be far too large. I'll update that in
> >     the source. Are there any other ebooks like that?
> >      >>>
> >      >>> That’s how big the source file was. The manual
> >     <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.6.3/single-page#10.1
> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.6.3/single-page#10.1>
> >     <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.6.3/single-page#10.1
> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.6.3/single-page#10.1>>> says
> >     “the /full/ source image” (emphasis mine) and “in as high a
> >     resolution as possible.” Do we now have a size limit?
> >      >> --
> >      >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
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Asher Smith

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Apr 26, 2022, 1:08:24 PMApr 26
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Apologies, misread that. I'll pull together a list of all the erroring ones and we can change them all at once.

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Asher Smith

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Apr 29, 2022, 8:59:37 AMApr 29
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Images larger than 4,000,000 pixels

Seven Pillars of Wisdom: illustrations 51, 88, 1, 9, 79, 15, 80

She: images 3 and 2

Twenty Years at Hull House: illustrations 60, 54, 44, 20, 52, 57, 2, 43, 4, 47, and probably more (the error only tags the 10 largest)

Personal Memoirs by Grant: illustration 18

Asher Smith

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Apr 29, 2022, 9:55:44 AMApr 29
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also:

My First Summer in the Sierra: sheep-in-the-mountains, the-three-brothers, the-happy-isles

Alex Cabal

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Apr 29, 2022, 11:20:26 AMApr 29
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Thanks, I'll look at all of these and cut them down some.

On 4/29/22 8:55 AM, Asher Smith wrote:
> also:
>
> My First Summer in the Sierra: sheep-in-the-mountains,
> the-three-brothers, the-happy-isles
>
>> On 29 Apr 2022, at 14:59, Asher Smith <forlackofa...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:forlackofa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Images larger than 4,000,000 pixels
>>
>> Seven Pillars of Wisdom: illustrations 51, 88, 1, 9, 79, 15, 80
>>
>> She: images 3 and 2
>>
>> Twenty Years at Hull House: illustrations 60, 54, 44, 20, 52, 57, 2,
>> 43, 4, 47, and probably more (the error only tags the 10 largest)
>>
>> Personal Memoirs by Grant: illustration 18
>>
>>> On 26 Apr 2022, at 19:08, Asher Smith
>>> <forlackofa...@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:forlackofa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Apologies, misread that. I'll pull together a list of all the
>>> erroring ones and we can change them all at once.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 26, 2022, 6:56 PM Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org
>>> <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, but which specific image(s)?
>>>
>>> On 4/26/22 1:02 AM, Asher Smith wrote:
>>> > Same thing as before - dimensions.
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Apr 26, 2022, 2:37 AM Alex Cabal
>>> <al...@standardebooks.org <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>
>>> > <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org
>>> <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >     What specific images in Hull House do they complain about?
>>> >
>>> >     On 4/25/22 2:18 AM, Asher Smith wrote:
>>> >      > Twenty Years at Hull House also has the image size issue.
>>> >      >
>>> >      > Convincing Apple to fix what I am sure is an epubcheck
>>> issue on
>>> >     their
>>> >      > end is proving a little difficult, so books that have a
>>> glossary are
>>> >      > probably not going to be uploaded this time.
>>> >      >
>>> >      > On Tuesday, March 29, 2022 at 9:30:40 AM UTC+1 Asher
>>> Smith wrote:
>>> >      >
>>> >      >     There have been a couple like that, including
>>> Erewhon. I’m
>>> >     going to
>>> >      >     make a full list of all the submission errors after I’ve
>>> >     attempted
>>> >      >     to submit the full corpus.
>>> >      >
>>> >      >      > On 29 Mar 2022, at 05:24, Alex Cabal
>>> >     <al...@standardebooks.org <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>
>>> <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>>>
>>> >      >     wrote:
>>> >      >      >
>>> >     <mailto:standardebooks%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
>>> <mailto:standardebooks%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>>
>>> >      > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com
>>> <mailto:standardebooks%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
>>> >     <mailto:standardebooks%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
>>> <mailto:standardebooks%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>>>.
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>>> >
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Alex Cabal

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Apr 29, 2022, 6:44:08 PMApr 29
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OK, these are all done with the exception of Pillars. I've added lint
checks to catch these issues in the future.

On 4/29/22 8:55 AM, Asher Smith wrote:
> also:
>
> My First Summer in the Sierra: sheep-in-the-mountains,
> the-three-brothers, the-happy-isles
>
>> On 29 Apr 2022, at 14:59, Asher Smith <forlackofa...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:forlackofa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Images larger than 4,000,000 pixels
>>
>> Seven Pillars of Wisdom: illustrations 51, 88, 1, 9, 79, 15, 80
>>
>> She: images 3 and 2
>>
>> Twenty Years at Hull House: illustrations 60, 54, 44, 20, 52, 57, 2,
>> 43, 4, 47, and probably more (the error only tags the 10 largest)
>>
>> Personal Memoirs by Grant: illustration 18
>>
>>> On 26 Apr 2022, at 19:08, Asher Smith
>>> <forlackofa...@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:forlackofa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Apologies, misread that. I'll pull together a list of all the
>>> erroring ones and we can change them all at once.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 26, 2022, 6:56 PM Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org
>>> <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, but which specific image(s)?
>>>
>>> On 4/26/22 1:02 AM, Asher Smith wrote:
>>> > Same thing as before - dimensions.
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Apr 26, 2022, 2:37 AM Alex Cabal
>>> <al...@standardebooks.org <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>
>>> > <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org
>>> <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >     What specific images in Hull House do they complain about?
>>> >
>>> >     On 4/25/22 2:18 AM, Asher Smith wrote:
>>> >      > Twenty Years at Hull House also has the image size issue.
>>> >      >
>>> >      > Convincing Apple to fix what I am sure is an epubcheck
>>> issue on
>>> >     their
>>> >      > end is proving a little difficult, so books that have a
>>> glossary are
>>> >      > probably not going to be uploaded this time.
>>> >      >
>>> >      > On Tuesday, March 29, 2022 at 9:30:40 AM UTC+1 Asher
>>> Smith wrote:
>>> >      >
>>> >      >     There have been a couple like that, including
>>> Erewhon. I’m
>>> >     going to
>>> >      >     make a full list of all the submission errors after I’ve
>>> >     attempted
>>> >      >     to submit the full corpus.
>>> >      >
>>> >      >      > On 29 Mar 2022, at 05:24, Alex Cabal
>>> >     <al...@standardebooks.org <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>
>>> <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>>>
>>> >      >     wrote:
>>> >      >      >