Hilarie Belloc, The Servile State
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Concave Trillion
Mar 12, 2021, 11:55:57 AM3/12/21
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Hello,
A while back I had started creating an ePub version of Hilare Belloc's The Servile State for myself (Published October 19120 from Archive.Org scans & OCR (https://archive.org/details/servilestate00belluoft). There does not appear to be a PG transcription of this book.
I recently stumbled across your group, and thought it would work well as a 'first project' for me to work on to contribute to the library.
I had a few questions, if this project is OK for me to do.
1 - How should I handle this as relates to github 'commits' given that I've already spent some time on transcribing and setting up the book locally without the standard ebooks repository (in particular, how should I handle 'editorial' things like archaic word spellings)?
2 - The book starts with a 'synopsis' instead of a basic table of contents, with a summary of each chapter, each thought separated by em-dashes. I think the information in the synopsis is ideal for section 'bridge headers' (it fits the style for non-fiction works such as this).
3 - Also, I'd like to contribute anonymously, please. I have a githhub account and this gmail account for that use.
Please let me know if this is OK for me to work on.
Thanks.
CT
Vince
Mar 12, 2021, 1:11:08 PM3/12/21
to Standard Ebooks
We would love for you to contribute, but a transcription is not a good first project; there are significant hurdles, both for the producer and for the reviewer. We have a wanted list here, which includes a section specifically for first productions. If you don’t see something you like there, you can suggest something else, but it needs to meet the guidelines listed at the beginning of that section (< 100K words, little to no complex formatting, etc.).
Alex Cabal
Mar 12, 2021, 3:52:25 PM3/12/21
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It looks like there's already a transcription here (in PDF though but
the text is selectable)
http://ldataworks.com/aqr/H_Belloc_The_Servile_State.pdf
As Vince said, transcription is extremely difficult not in small part
because it seems so easy. It makes for a poor first project and other
projects like PGPD are much better suited to transcription than Standard
Ebooks. Additionally we have rules for commit histories especially for
first projects, and if you repo already has its own history then it's
unlikely we'll be able to use it without some serious and tedious
history rewriting on your part.
I suggest you first submit your transcription to PG or PGDP, as they
have processes in place to help ensure it comes out well. In the
meantime you can select a first production that is not a transcription
from our wanted list, or pitch something else that meets our first
production guidelines. Once you have that under your belt we can return
to working on this one.
On 3/12/21 10:55 AM, Concave Trillion wrote:
> Hello,
>
> A while back I had started creating an ePub version of Hilare Belloc's
> /The Servile State/ for myself (Published October 19120 from Archive.Org
> --
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b4e7aeea-2578-4ae1-89ec-c83179e241fbn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
the text is selectable)
http://ldataworks.com/aqr/H_Belloc_The_Servile_State.pdf
As Vince said, transcription is extremely difficult not in small part
because it seems so easy. It makes for a poor first project and other
projects like PGPD are much better suited to transcription than Standard
Ebooks. Additionally we have rules for commit histories especially for
first projects, and if you repo already has its own history then it's
unlikely we'll be able to use it without some serious and tedious
history rewriting on your part.
I suggest you first submit your transcription to PG or PGDP, as they
have processes in place to help ensure it comes out well. In the
meantime you can select a first production that is not a transcription
from our wanted list, or pitch something else that meets our first
production guidelines. Once you have that under your belt we can return
to working on this one.
On 3/12/21 10:55 AM, Concave Trillion wrote:
> Hello,
>
> A while back I had started creating an ePub version of Hilare Belloc's
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b4e7aeea-2578-4ae1-89ec-c83179e241fbn%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b4e7aeea-2578-4ae1-89ec-c83179e241fbn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
Concave Trillion
Mar 12, 2021, 3:57:10 PM3/12/21
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OK thanks. I figured there might be some concerns given the commit history etc. I'll take a look at the wanted list and pick something out.
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C T
Mar 20, 2021, 9:03:55 PM3/20/21
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FYI - Project Gutenberg accepted my transcription of The Servile State to their collection.
Perhaps I could consider starting from this baseline as my next project, while Chessmen of Mars is under review?
CT
On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 3:52 PM Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org> wrote:
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Alex Cabal
Mar 21, 2021, 2:05:20 PM3/21/21
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OK, you can work on that one next if you like. I think it's going to be
much more complicated than Mars but since you already did the
transcription you're going to be more familiar with its unique requirements.
> <https://archive.org/details/servilestate00belluoft>). There
> <mailto:standardebooks%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebooks%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>>.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/362a9fa0-a5e4-2d61-fbe4-8d7fd08b42c6%40standardebooks.org>.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/CAN6PGGX7-oj2GJ_FADQXm7O_767Y9vnCM%3DrG%2Bq0PJuoYtFoXvA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
much more complicated than Mars but since you already did the
transcription you're going to be more familiar with its unique requirements.
> > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebooks%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>>.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b4e7aeea-2578-4ae1-89ec-c83179e241fbn%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b4e7aeea-2578-4ae1-89ec-c83179e241fbn%40googlegroups.com>
>
> >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b4e7aeea-2578-4ae1-89ec-c83179e241fbn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b4e7aeea-2578-4ae1-89ec-c83179e241fbn%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b4e7aeea-2578-4ae1-89ec-c83179e241fbn%40googlegroups.com>
>
> >
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>
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C T
Mar 21, 2021, 10:57:29 PM3/21/21
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Thanks.
For the cover art, I was looking at a few possibilities (nothing is checked into a repo yet).
Is there an index of 'already used' art anywhere? I've been looking through the museum pieces but i expect many are already in use on another book.
Anyway -
This is in the Smithsonian tagged with CC0.
I thought maybe a portion of it:
Or, perhaps something more classical, evoking Belloc's thesis of a return in some ways to antiquity:
If neither of these will work, I will keep looking.
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Alex Cabal
Mar 22, 2021, 5:35:36 PM3/22/21
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Both of those work. Let me know which one you select!
On 3/21/21 9:56 PM, C T wrote:
> Thanks.
>
> For the cover art, I was looking at a few possibilities (nothing is
> checked into a repo yet).
>
> Is there an index of 'already used' art anywhere? I've been looking
> through the museum pieces but i expect many are already in use on
> another book.
>
> Anyway -
> This is in the Smithsonian tagged with CC0.
> https://www.si.edu/object/madrid-coal-mine-new-mexico:saam_1964.1.166?edan_q=mining&oa=1&edan_fq%5B0%5D=media_usage:CC0&searchResults=1&id=saam_1964.1.166&destination=/search/collection-images
> <https://www.si.edu/object/madrid-coal-mine-new-mexico:saam_1964.1.166?edan_q=mining&oa=1&edan_fq%5B0%5D=media_usage:CC0&searchResults=1&id=saam_1964.1.166&destination=/search/collection-images>
>
> I thought maybe a portion of it:
> > <mailto:standardebooks%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebooks%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>>
> > > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebooks%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > <mailto:standardebooks%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebooks%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>>>.
> <mailto:standardebooks%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>>.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/CAN6PGGX7-oj2GJ_FADQXm7O_767Y9vnCM%3DrG%2Bq0PJuoYtFoXvA%40mail.gmail.com>
>
> >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/CAN6PGGX7-oj2GJ_FADQXm7O_767Y9vnCM%3DrG%2Bq0PJuoYtFoXvA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/8707a35d-50a5-3774-c090-37125d03538d%40standardebooks.org
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/8707a35d-50a5-3774-c090-37125d03538d%40standardebooks.org>.
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On 3/21/21 9:56 PM, C T wrote:
> Thanks.
>
> For the cover art, I was looking at a few possibilities (nothing is
> checked into a repo yet).
>
> Is there an index of 'already used' art anywhere? I've been looking
> through the museum pieces but i expect many are already in use on
> another book.
>
> Anyway -
> This is in the Smithsonian tagged with CC0.
> https://www.si.edu/object/madrid-coal-mine-new-mexico:saam_1964.1.166?edan_q=mining&oa=1&edan_fq%5B0%5D=media_usage:CC0&searchResults=1&id=saam_1964.1.166&destination=/search/collection-images
> <https://www.si.edu/object/madrid-coal-mine-new-mexico:saam_1964.1.166?edan_q=mining&oa=1&edan_fq%5B0%5D=media_usage:CC0&searchResults=1&id=saam_1964.1.166&destination=/search/collection-images>
>
> I thought maybe a portion of it:
> image.png
>
> Or, perhaps something more classical, evoking Belloc's thesis of a
> return in some ways to antiquity:
> https://www.artic.edu/artworks/57049/the-obelisk
> <https://www.artic.edu/artworks/57049/the-obelisk>
>
> Or, perhaps something more classical, evoking Belloc's thesis of a
> return in some ways to antiquity:
> https://www.artic.edu/artworks/57049/the-obelisk
> image.png
>
>
> If neither of these will work, I will keep looking.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 2:05 PM Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org
> <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>> wrote:
>
> OK, you can work on that one next if you like. I think it's going to be
> much more complicated than Mars but since you already did the
> transcription you're going to be more familiar with its unique
> requirements.
>
> On 3/20/21 8:03 PM, C T wrote:
> > FYI - Project Gutenberg accepted my transcription of The Servile
> State
> > to their collection.
> >
> > https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/64882
> <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/64882>
> > <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/64882
> <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/64882>>
> >
> > Perhaps I could consider starting from this baseline as my next
> project,
> > while Chessmen of Mars is under review?
> >
> > CT
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 3:52 PM Alex Cabal
> <al...@standardebooks.org <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>
> > <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org
>
>
> If neither of these will work, I will keep looking.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 2:05 PM Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org
> <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>> wrote:
>
> OK, you can work on that one next if you like. I think it's going to be
> much more complicated than Mars but since you already did the
> transcription you're going to be more familiar with its unique
> requirements.
>
> On 3/20/21 8:03 PM, C T wrote:
> > FYI - Project Gutenberg accepted my transcription of The Servile
> State
> > to their collection.
> >
> > https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/64882
> <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/64882>
> > <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/64882
> <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/64882>>
> >
> > Perhaps I could consider starting from this baseline as my next
> project,
> > while Chessmen of Mars is under review?
> >
> > CT
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 3:52 PM Alex Cabal
> <al...@standardebooks.org <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>
> <mailto:standardebooks%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>>
> > > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebooks%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > <mailto:standardebooks%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebooks%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>>>.
> > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > >
> >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b4e7aeea-2578-4ae1-89ec-c83179e241fbn%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b4e7aeea-2578-4ae1-89ec-c83179e241fbn%40googlegroups.com>
> >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b4e7aeea-2578-4ae1-89ec-c83179e241fbn%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b4e7aeea-2578-4ae1-89ec-c83179e241fbn%40googlegroups.com>>
> >
> > >
> >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b4e7aeea-2578-4ae1-89ec-c83179e241fbn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b4e7aeea-2578-4ae1-89ec-c83179e241fbn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> >
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> >
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> >
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David Grigg
Mar 22, 2021, 5:50:45 PM3/22/21
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“Is there an index of 'already used' art anywhere?”
I had a stab at doing this at one stage, by progrmmatically pulling the information out of the colophons of every book in the corpus. If it would be useful I could run this again. Might be nice to have a one page visual catalogue of all the covers, too. I don’t have time right now, but could tackle this in a couple of weeks.
I had a stab at doing this at one stage, by progrmmatically pulling the information out of the colophons of every book in the corpus. If it would be useful I could run this again. Might be nice to have a one page visual catalogue of all the covers, too. I don’t have time right now, but could tackle this in a couple of weeks.
Regards,
David
Vince
Mar 22, 2021, 5:59:23 PM3/22/21
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In the meantime, you can search the Standardebooks GitHub repositories for the name of the painting and/or the artist. Treat it like a Google search, i.e. don’t search for the entire painting name, just a key word or two.
C T
Mar 22, 2021, 8:34:10 PM3/22/21
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I'll go with this one, since the background on the painting's subject is the 'company town' common during the early 20th century, and ties in well to Belloc's subject.
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C T
Mar 23, 2021, 11:46:37 PM3/23/21
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Question on style manual. Belloc uses colons followed by em dashes to introduce ideas.
Interesting history on it: https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/31060/is-it-proper-to-use-a-colon-followed-immediately-by-a-hyphen
example:
I shall divide the matter thus:—
(1) I shall lay down certain definitions.
(2) Next, . . .
(3) Sketch very briefly . . .
(1) I shall lay down certain definitions.
(2) Next, . . .
(3) Sketch very briefly . . .
or
The definition of the Servile State is as follows:—
That arrangement of society in which so considerable a number..
That arrangement of society in which so considerable a number..
or
This is what happened:—
The England of the early sixteenth century, ...
The England of the early sixteenth century, ...
I looked through the manual but didn't see anything specific to this question, and then picked up my CMOS. CMOS indicates that em dash should not follow a colon in modern usage.
Should I leave them as is? If it was correct usage at the time.. Or should I replace with an em dash only, or a colon only? Colon seems the most natural to me.
Vince
Mar 24, 2021, 12:39:45 AM3/24/21
to Standard Ebooks
I asked about those a couple of years ago, Alex said, “You can leave those for now.” I haven’t heard any different, so I’ve been leaving them ever since.
Asher Smith
Mar 27, 2021, 5:47:43 PM3/27/21
to Standard Ebooks
CT, how did you go about submitting something to PG? I'm looking at producing a book for which an almost-complete transcription exists on WikiSource, and would like to take it through that process before getting it through the SE process.
Vince
Mar 27, 2021, 6:40:38 PM3/27/21
to Standard Ebooks
I’m not CT, but I have submitted a couple of books to PG. :)
The Help menu on the website has “Public Domain ebook submission,” and that page has most of the information you need, and links to the rest.
The process begins with getting PD approval. There’s a “Copyright How-To” link on that page. Once you have everything together, you’ll submit it and get a copyright clearance key. You’ll need that in order to submit the text.
Once you submit it, they’ll assign you a whitewasher who will take you the rest of the way through the process, i.e. cleaning up things you missed in the text, CSS, etc.
Good luck!
C T
Mar 27, 2021, 10:07:59 PM3/27/21
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That's exactly what I did, Vince. The whitewasher also pointed me to their old FAQ on how the text version should be formatted (section 7). This was the most time consuming part for me, getting the ASCII/UTF8 version OK for their standard.
In particular, the 60-70 character line length. I ended up using an extension for Visual Studio Code called 'Rewrap' that will wrap lines at a specific length (and keep words together). I gave it a length of 70 and that helped a lot. some of their tooling also was written for ascii and the text file chokes on emdash and other unicode characters, but they do *accept* utf8. The HTML also has to be HTML4 and pass the validator for HTML4.
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Vince
Mar 27, 2021, 11:53:04 PM3/27/21
to Standard Ebooks
Yes, their requirements are more exacting than even ours. I understood the line length on the text file, but they wanted it hard-wrapped even in the HTML file(!). And their spelling checker, and … So yes, Asher, get ready for a lot of back and forth. It really does pay to pay attention to all the requirements before submitting. (I may or may not have done that on the first book.)
C T
Mar 30, 2021, 11:12:42 PM3/30/21
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Is "villa" (and villae) considered a Latinism (and this not italicized)? It's in M-W. The context of its use is historical describing the Roman Villa system, but conveys essentially the same meaning as the english word. It occurs along side several other latin words that are not in M-W: vicus, servus, dominus (which *is* in M-W but not with the same definition as the latin 'lord')
But of all these the Villa the dominating type; and as society passed from the high civilisation of the first four centuries into the simplicity of the Dark Ages, the Villa, the unit of agricultural production, became more and more the model of all society.
Now the Villa began as a considerable extent of land, containing, like a modern English estate
If I do include it as Latin, should I set the words with a macron? (even if villa we leave as is, vicus is a long-i word)
vīlla, vīllae, vīcus
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Alex Cabal
Mar 30, 2021, 11:16:18 PM3/30/21
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You can include this as Latin because it's used in that context. I don't
think a macron is necessary unless it's in the source
On 3/30/21 10:12 PM, C T wrote:
> Is "villa" (and villae) considered a Latinism (and this not italicized)?
> It's in M-W. The context of its use is historical describing the Roman
> Villa system, but conveys essentially the same meaning as the english
> word. It occurs along side several other latin words that are not in
> M-W: vicus, servus, dominus (which *is* in M-W but not with the same
> definition as the latin 'lord')
>
> But of all these the /Villa/ the dominating type; and as society
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/CAN6PGGVL%2Bu%3DX_c_a%3D34%2B9Koas0k6kgfCUD4vnn1HAZjZ6U-jCA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
think a macron is necessary unless it's in the source
On 3/30/21 10:12 PM, C T wrote:
> Is "villa" (and villae) considered a Latinism (and this not italicized)?
> It's in M-W. The context of its use is historical describing the Roman
> Villa system, but conveys essentially the same meaning as the english
> word. It occurs along side several other latin words that are not in
> M-W: vicus, servus, dominus (which *is* in M-W but not with the same
> definition as the latin 'lord')
>
> passed from the high civilisation of the first four centuries into
> the simplicity of the Dark Ages, the /Villa/, the unit of
> agricultural production, became more and more the model of all society.
>
> Now the /Villa/ began as a considerable extent of land, containing,
>
> like a modern English estate
>
>
> If I do include it as Latin, should I set the words with a macron? (even
> if villa we leave as is, vicus is a long-i word)
> vīlla, vīllae, vīcus
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 11:53 PM Vince <vr_se...@letterboxes.org
> <mailto:vr_se...@letterboxes.org>> wrote:
>
> Yes, their requirements are more exacting than even ours. I
> understood the line length on the text file, but they wanted it
> hard-wrapped even in the HTML file(!). And their spelling checker,
> and … So yes, Asher, get ready for a lot of back and forth. It
> really does pay to pay attention to /all/ the requirements before
>
>
> If I do include it as Latin, should I set the words with a macron? (even
> if villa we leave as is, vicus is a long-i word)
> vīlla, vīllae, vīcus
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 11:53 PM Vince <vr_se...@letterboxes.org
> <mailto:vr_se...@letterboxes.org>> wrote:
>
> Yes, their requirements are more exacting than even ours. I
> understood the line length on the text file, but they wanted it
> hard-wrapped even in the HTML file(!). And their spelling checker,
> and … So yes, Asher, get ready for a lot of back and forth. It
> submitting. (I may or may not have done that on the first book.)
>
>
>> On Mar 27, 2021, at 9:07 PM, C T <concave...@gmail.com
>
>
>> On Mar 27, 2021, at 9:07 PM, C T <concave...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:concave...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> That's exactly what I did, Vince. The whitewasher also pointed me
>> to their old FAQ
>> <https://web.archive.org/web/20191203121655/http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Gutenberg:Volunteers'_FAQ#V.73._Why_does_PG_format_texts_the_way_it_does.3F>on
>>
>> That's exactly what I did, Vince. The whitewasher also pointed me
>> to their old FAQ
>> how the text version should be formatted (section 7). This was the
>> most time consuming part for me, getting the ASCII/UTF8 version OK
>> for their standard.
>>
>> In particular, the 60-70 character line length. I ended up using
>> an extension for Visual Studio Code called 'Rewrap' that will wrap
>> lines at a specific length (and keep words together). I gave it a
>> length of 70 and that helped a lot. some of their tooling also was
>> written for ascii and the text file chokes on emdash and other
>> unicode characters, but they do *accept* utf8. The HTML also has
>> to be HTML4 and pass the validator for HTML4.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 6:40 PM Vince <vr_se...@letterboxes.org
>> <mailto:vr_se...@letterboxes.org>> wrote:
>>
>> I’m not CT, but I have submitted a couple of books to PG. :)
>>
>> The Help menu on the website has “Public Domain ebook
>> submission,” and that page has most of the information you
>> need, and links to the rest.
>>
>> The process begins with getting PD approval. There’s a
>> “Copyright How-To” link on that page. Once you have everything
>> together, you’ll submit it and get a copyright clearance key.
>> You’ll need that in order to submit the text.
>>
>> The rest of the page has the process, and links to the
>> submission page, which takes you through the process of
>> submitting the text (and all of the several steps you’ll need
>> to do /before/ you submit it).
>> most time consuming part for me, getting the ASCII/UTF8 version OK
>> for their standard.
>>
>> In particular, the 60-70 character line length. I ended up using
>> an extension for Visual Studio Code called 'Rewrap' that will wrap
>> lines at a specific length (and keep words together). I gave it a
>> length of 70 and that helped a lot. some of their tooling also was
>> written for ascii and the text file chokes on emdash and other
>> unicode characters, but they do *accept* utf8. The HTML also has
>> to be HTML4 and pass the validator for HTML4.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 6:40 PM Vince <vr_se...@letterboxes.org
>> <mailto:vr_se...@letterboxes.org>> wrote:
>>
>> I’m not CT, but I have submitted a couple of books to PG. :)
>>
>> The Help menu on the website has “Public Domain ebook
>> submission,” and that page has most of the information you
>> need, and links to the rest.
>>
>> The process begins with getting PD approval. There’s a
>> “Copyright How-To” link on that page. Once you have everything
>> together, you’ll submit it and get a copyright clearance key.
>> You’ll need that in order to submit the text.
>>
>> The rest of the page has the process, and links to the
>> submission page, which takes you through the process of
>> submitting the text (and all of the several steps you’ll need
>>
>> Once you submit it, they’ll assign you a whitewasher who will
>> take you the rest of the way through the process, i.e.
>> cleaning up things you missed in the text, CSS, etc.
>>
>> Good luck!
>>
>>
>>> On Mar 27, 2021, at 4:47 PM, Asher Smith
>>> <forlackofa...@gmail.com
>> Once you submit it, they’ll assign you a whitewasher who will
>> take you the rest of the way through the process, i.e.
>> cleaning up things you missed in the text, CSS, etc.
>>
>> Good luck!
>>
>>
>>> On Mar 27, 2021, at 4:47 PM, Asher Smith
>>> <forlackofa...@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:forlackofa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> CT, how did you go about submitting something to PG? I'm
>>> looking at producing a book for which an almost-complete
>>> transcription exists on WikiSource, and would like to take it
>>> through that process before getting it through the SE process.
>
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>>>
>>> CT, how did you go about submitting something to PG? I'm
>>> looking at producing a book for which an almost-complete
>>> transcription exists on WikiSource, and would like to take it
>>> through that process before getting it through the SE process.
>
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C T
Mar 30, 2021, 11:29:27 PM3/30/21
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Sounds good, thanks.
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C T
Apr 6, 2021, 1:06:52 AM4/6/21
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A few last questions before this is ready for review.
1 - quâ is a latinism in M-W so I removed the italics per the style manual. Should I also remove the circumflex?
2 - The chapters are named 'Section'. I was removing the word Section and just using roman numbers for the nine sections of the book. Is this ok, or should I title them 'Section I' instead of just 'I'?
3 - I found a 2nd edition printed in 1913 which included a new preface by the author and a few minor corrections in the text. I added the preface and made separate commits to update each section to the 2nd edition.
4 - in some of the non-fiction descriptions it includes a bit about the author in addition to the work (e.g. Chesterton's Heretics). Should the long description focus on the work alone or also include a bit about the author?
5 - The physical book includes a 'synopsis', sort of an abstract of each chapter, at the beginning, instead of a table of contents. The epub spec has a draft item in for 'abstract' front matter. Should I use that? Other options:
- put this some other generic 'front matter' - what though?
- move each section's summary into a bridgehead at the start of each section
- remove it completely
I hesitate to remove it completely, because it does give a good summary of the ideas presented.
CT
Alex Cabal
Apr 6, 2021, 3:57:09 PM4/6/21
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On 4/6/21 12:06 AM, C T wrote:> A few last questions before this is
non`. If it's just `qua` alone then I would leave it italicized and you
can remove the circumflex in either case.
> 2 - The chapters are named 'Section'. I was removing the word Section
> and just using roman numbers for the nine sections of the book. Is this
> ok, or should I title them 'Section I' instead of just 'I'?
No, just Roman is fine
> 3 - I found a 2nd edition
> <https://archive.org/details/cu31924013586049>printed in 1913 which
> 4 - in some of the non-fiction descriptions it includes a bit about the
> author in addition to the work (e.g. Chesterton's Heretics
> <https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/g-k-chesterton/heretics>). Should the
life that is directly related to this or it's the only thing he wrote
(which it isn't). We want the descriptions to be about the book,
otherwise we end up repeating ourselves; and people can read about the
author on Wikipedia.
> 5 - The physical book includes a 'synopsis', sort of an abstract of each
> chapter, at the beginning, instead of a table of contents. The epub spec
> has a draft item in for 'abstract' front matter. Should I use that?
> Other options:
You can add those to the chapter headers as the "bridgehead" pattern in
the manual, but remove the standalone file
ready for review.
>
> 1 - quâ is a latinism in M-W so I removed the italics per the style
> manual. Should I also remove the circumflex?
I think `qua` without italics only makes sense in as part of `sine qua
>
> 1 - quâ is a latinism in M-W so I removed the italics per the style
> manual. Should I also remove the circumflex?
non`. If it's just `qua` alone then I would leave it italicized and you
can remove the circumflex in either case.
> 2 - The chapters are named 'Section'. I was removing the word Section
> and just using roman numbers for the nine sections of the book. Is this
> ok, or should I title them 'Section I' instead of just 'I'?
> 3 - I found a 2nd edition
> included a new preface by the author and a few minor corrections in the
> text. I added the preface and made separate commits to update each
> section to the 2nd edition.
Very good
> text. I added the preface and made separate commits to update each
> section to the 2nd edition.
> 4 - in some of the non-fiction descriptions it includes a bit about the
> author in addition to the work (e.g. Chesterton's Heretics
> long description focus on the work alone or also include a bit about the
> author?
No, just talk about the work, unless there's some aspect of the author's
> author?
life that is directly related to this or it's the only thing he wrote
(which it isn't). We want the descriptions to be about the book,
otherwise we end up repeating ourselves; and people can read about the
author on Wikipedia.
> 5 - The physical book includes a 'synopsis', sort of an abstract of each
> chapter, at the beginning, instead of a table of contents. The epub spec
> has a draft item in for 'abstract' front matter. Should I use that?
> Other options:
the manual, but remove the standalone file
C T
Apr 6, 2021, 4:17:18 PM4/6/21
to standar...@googlegroups.com
Thanks Alex.
Two more questions:
1) How should I style ordered lists? complex CSS that matches the book, or basic style that changes it a bit?
This book uses (1) (2) and (a) (b) for lists.
I was going to use CSS to style this with the (), but epub readers are not great with some of the selectors.
- ::marker combined with content: does not seem to be supported by Calibre, but is the preferred way.
- ::before works but I have to manually add value= tags to the <li>s in Calibre (but not in a browser...), otherwise the numbers in calibre are 1 off. But I don't have a way to test how well most readers support it.
Would it be better just to use list-style-type instead, and just have the lists be styled like:
1. lorem
2. ipsum
3. dolor
a. sit
b. amit
2) Regardless, there are still are some "inline" use of labels (a) and (b) to start off long sets of paragraphs.
<p>... there is (a) the man who ...
</p>
<p>
... There is also (b) the man who ...</p>
... more <p>'s ...
<p>(a) The first type will begin by demanding...</p>
... more <p>'s ...
<p>(b) The second type of socialist reformer...</p>
The other example, without use of the inline labels first:
<p>(a) Its fundamental criterion is employment. In other...</p>
... more <p>'s plus an <ol> of short (1) (2) (3) elements
<p>(b) Still more striking, as an example...</p>
What should I do with those (a) and (b)s? (<i>a</i>)?
Thanks.
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Alex Cabal
Apr 6, 2021, 6:27:57 PM4/6/21
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On 4/6/21 3:16 PM, C T wrote:
> Thanks Alex.
as list-style-type: lower-alpha. Don't worry about parentheses.
> 2) Regardless, there are still are some "inline" use of labels (/a/) and
> (/b/) to start off long sets of paragraphs.
There is no mechanism for inline lists in HTML, so just type them as text.
> Thanks Alex.
> 1) How should I style ordered lists? complex CSS that matches the book,
> or basic style that changes it a bit?
> This book uses (1) (2) and (a) (b) for lists.
<ol> will give you numbers for free. Then you can CSS to style the rest
> or basic style that changes it a bit?
> This book uses (1) (2) and (a) (b) for lists.
as list-style-type: lower-alpha. Don't worry about parentheses.
> 2) Regardless, there are still are some "inline" use of labels (/a/) and
> (/b/) to start off long sets of paragraphs.
There is no mechanism for inline lists in HTML, so just type them as text.
C T
Apr 7, 2021, 12:10:02 AM4/7/21
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This is ready for review. Might take some time to review the [Editorial] sections.
All the editorial commits are toward the end of the commit history.
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Alex Cabal
Apr 7, 2021, 12:10:29 AM4/7/21
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Vince can you take this?
> <mailto:standardebooks%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/CAN6PGGV5ZMH1L9%2Bvv%3DLGq5uhKvLsS_JOh2U3KQdoZy-vk3_Myg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/8ea7ed79-e3d3-675c-b30a-e5cd0e591a34%40standardebooks.org
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/8ea7ed79-e3d3-675c-b30a-e5cd0e591a34%40standardebooks.org>.
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/8ea7ed79-e3d3-675c-b30a-e5cd0e591a34%40standardebooks.org
>
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Vince
Apr 7, 2021, 12:31:50 AM4/7/21
to Standard Ebooks
Sure.
Vince
Apr 7, 2021, 2:06:48 PM4/7/21
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Really good work, C.T.; I created an issue with some very minor formatting things, but this was an excellent production.
Vince
Apr 7, 2021, 3:10:57 PM4/7/21
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All right, Alex, this is ready for you.
Alex Cabal
Apr 7, 2021, 6:45:03 PM4/7/21
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David, print-toc crashes on this repo. Can you look in to it and see
what's going on?
On 4/6/21 11:09 PM, C T wrote:
> <mailto:standardebooks%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/CAN6PGGV5ZMH1L9%2Bvv%3DLGq5uhKvLsS_JOh2U3KQdoZy-vk3_Myg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
what's going on?
On 4/6/21 11:09 PM, C T wrote:
> To view this discussion on the web visit
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C T
Apr 7, 2021, 6:56:41 PM4/7/21
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It's the dedication. I used <div>s. I probably should not have. Changing them to <p> fixes the error.
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David Grigg
Apr 7, 2021, 6:58:31 PM4/7/21
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Still, better if print-toc doesn’t crash. I’ll see if I can reproduce the issue.
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Vince
Apr 7, 2021, 6:58:32 PM4/7/21
to Standard Ebooks
It’s the dedication. It doesn’t have a `<p>` after the section; I noted this in my review and C.T. said he fixed it, but he fixed the CSS and forgot the dedication itself.
Sorry, I should have checked.
C.T., dedication should look something like this (you should run clean after to make sure):
<p>To<br/>
<b><abbr class="name">E. S. P.</abbr> Haynes</b>
</p>
C T
Apr 7, 2021, 6:59:13 PM4/7/21
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I pushed commit 20819c7 to fix that issue.
C T
Apr 7, 2021, 7:00:49 PM4/7/21
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My bad! I fixed the CSS and completely blanked on the part about the divs.
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C T
Apr 7, 2021, 7:02:21 PM4/7/21
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Ahh I think i see what happened. Blame Github - the issue doesn't have your full text:
" The dedication doesn't need
s. Even if it needed to be targeted, you can do so with
#dedication p and #dedication b. But, it doesn't need to be targeted; the text doesn't need to be enlarged."On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 6:58 PM Vince <vr_se...@letterboxes.org> wrote:
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Vince
Apr 7, 2021, 7:02:22 PM4/7/21
to Standard Ebooks
No worries, happens to me all the time. :)
Alex Cabal
Apr 7, 2021, 7:07:01 PM4/7/21
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OK, this all looks good and I've gone ahead and released it. Very good
long description--I'm actually interested in reading this. Great work,
thanks!
On 4/6/21 11:09 PM, C T wrote:
> <mailto:standardebooks%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/CAN6PGGV5ZMH1L9%2Bvv%3DLGq5uhKvLsS_JOh2U3KQdoZy-vk3_Myg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
long description--I'm actually interested in reading this. Great work,
thanks!
On 4/6/21 11:09 PM, C T wrote:
> To view this discussion on the web visit
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/8ea7ed79-e3d3-675c-b30a-e5cd0e591a34%40standardebooks.org
>
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Vince
Apr 7, 2021, 7:08:46 PM4/7/21
to Standard Ebooks
Ah, that’s my fault; I didn’t backquote something that needed to be backquoted. (Which is funny, because that happened on the book I just had reviewed.)
I know intellectually that I should always check Preview in GitHub, but it doesn’t always make it’s way to my fingers.
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