[Next Project] Poetry by Matthew Arnold

[Devin O'Bannon]

Hello all,

I haven't done a poetry collection yet, so I'll try my hand with one of my favourite poets, Matthew Arnold.

Here is a spreadsheet of all his poetry. The ordering is from Kenneth Alcott, an authority on Arnold, based on what he was able to figure out regarding the order of composition. Two of the poems will need to be transcribed. I would follow this ordering in the production.

I have left out the fragments, juvenalia, and two "poems" that others sometimes include--examples of his translations from Homer, and another poem that he placed in the middle of a sentence in one of his nonfiction books.

My inclination is to leave out the biographical introductions.

Wikisource transcription: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_poetical_works_of_Matthew_Arnold

Page scans for all poems but two: https://archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/

Page scans for "A Nameless Epitaph": https://archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft

Page scans for "Rome-Sickness": https://archive.org/details/inmemoriamawrea00marsgoog

Thanks,

Devin

[David]

Hi Devin - just to say your spreadsheet link results in an "Access denied" message. Can you make it viewable-for-those-with-link?

Thanks!

David / Fife, UK

On Wednesday, 30 April 2025 at 01:31:52 UTC+1 Devin wrote:

Hello all,

I haven't done a poetry collection yet, so I'll try my hand with one of my favourite poets, Matthew Arnold.

Here is a spreadsheet of all his poetry. The ordering is from Kenneth Alcott, an authority on Arnold, based on what he was able to figure out regarding the order of composition. Two of the poems will need to be transcribed. I would follow this ordering in the production. . . .

[Devin O'Bannon]

Hello David,

Ack! I forgot to do that. It's public now.

Devin

[Alex Cabal]

OK, good research! You can go ahead and work on this. See other poetry
compilations for how to structure things. Please send a link to your
repo once you get started.

On 4/29/25 7:31 PM, Devin O'Bannon wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I haven't done a poetry collection yet, so I'll try my hand with one of
> my favourite poets, Matthew Arnold.
>

> Here <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16NXJVpANy1sqRq8P-
> mxhHVflRuMqUhdn4YGwnC0iyZ4/edit?gid=0#gid=0> is a spreadsheet of all his

> poetry. The ordering is from Kenneth Alcott, an authority on Arnold,
> based on what he was able to figure out regarding the order of
> composition. Two of the poems will need to be transcribed. I would
> follow this ordering in the production.
>
> I have left out the fragments, juvenalia, and two "poems" that others
> sometimes include--examples of his translations from Homer, and another
> poem that he placed in the middle of a sentence in one of his nonfiction
> books.
>
> My inclination is to leave out the biographical introductions.
>
> Wikisource transcription: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/

> The_poetical_works_of_Matthew_Arnold <https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/
> The_poetical_works_of_Matthew_Arnold>

> Page scans for all poems but two: https://archive.org/details/

> poeticalworksofm00arn/ <https://archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/>

> Page scans for "A Nameless Epitaph": https://archive.org/details/

> poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft <https://archive.org/details/
> poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft>

> Page scans for "Rome-Sickness": https://archive.org/details/

> inmemoriamawrea00marsgoog <https://archive.org/details/
> inmemoriamawrea00marsgoog>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Devin
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> standardebooks/ae4d1646-f2bd-41e7-9a59-c8b39520a96cn%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/ae4d1646-
> f2bd-41e7-9a59-c8b39520a96cn%40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Devin O'Bannon]

Here is the repo: https://github.com/Survey0r/matthew-arnold_poetry

Devin

[Alex Cabal]

OK, David will manage this with Vince reviewing.

> <https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/>
> > The_poetical_works_of_Matthew_Arnold <https://en.wikisource.org/
> wiki/ <https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/>

> > The_poetical_works_of_Matthew_Arnold>
> > Page scans for all poems but two: https://archive.org/details/

> <https://archive.org/details/>
> > poeticalworksofm00arn/ <https://archive.org/details/
> poeticalworksofm00arn/ <https://archive.org/details/

> poeticalworksofm00arn/>>
> > Page scans for "A Nameless Epitaph": https://archive.org/details/
> <https://archive.org/details/>
> > poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft <https://archive.org/details/
> <https://archive.org/details/>
> > poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft>
> > Page scans for "Rome-Sickness": https://archive.org/details/
> <https://archive.org/details/>

> > inmemoriamawrea00marsgoog <https://archive.org/details/ <https://
> archive.org/details/>

> > inmemoriamawrea00marsgoog>
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Devin
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
> > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> > standardebooks/ae4d1646-f2bd-41e7-9a59-
> c8b39520a96cn%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/ae4d1646-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/ae4d1646->
> > f2bd-41e7-9a59-c8b39520a96cn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>?
> > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

> standardebooks/7ae2db94-02a1-475b-9d31-388746eabfc2n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> standardebooks/7ae2db94-02a1-475b-9d31-388746eabfc2n%40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Emma Sweeney]

Make sure to take a look at the poem how-to guide for file and poem formatting. The drama how-to guide will help you with the dramatic poems.

Emma

[Devin O'Bannon]

Thanks, Emma!

For the cover, I've selected "Starry Night" by Edvard Munsch, due to the various melancholy poems Arnold wrote, as well as his most famous one, "Dover Beach": https://www.getty.edu/art/collection/object/103RGH

[David]

Looks good, Devin - I've added it to the artworks DB.

[Devin O'Bannon]

As I've been working with this Wikisource transcription, I've been finding it increasingly unwieldy to work with. I originally went with it because it was the more complete 1897 edition, while PG has the 1890 edition (which is why I was going to go with Wikisource in the first place). However, looking at both, the PG one is far, far easier to work with.

So I'm going to delete this repository (which was constructed with the Wikisource transcription), create a new one with the PG transcription, and then use the Wikisource transcription to add any missing poems. (I'm going to transcribe two poems myself and re-order all of the poems according to composition order anyway, so it's not that much extra trouble.) I will still be using the page scans I linked to earlier for references.

The repository link should still be the same after this process, but I'll post it anyway after I've put up the new initial commit.

Devin

[David Reimer]

That sounds like a plan (and makes sense).

[Devin O'Bannon]

Here is the new repository link: https://github.com/Survey0r/matthew-arnold_poetry

And the PG transcription: https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/27739

[Weijia Cheng]

You might find this guide helpful, especially the part about manually transcribing poetry. (The auto-generated Wikisource HTML is very hard to work with in general! I've found that for poetic productions, it is easier just to copy and paste poems as plain text from Wikisource sometimes.)

[Devin O'Bannon]

Hello Weijia,

Thanks! That guide is very helpful.

Devin

[Devin O'Bannon]

Hello David,

I've gotten back to work on this, and I had some questions about formatting, as well as commits.

• In the poem "Tristram and Iseult," there are alternations between dialog and long epic poem sections, designated by the long series of dots in the picture below. I'm trying to figure out how to write this in HTML. Would I structure the dialog sections each as their own separate tables, and then put the long poetic sections in their own blockquotes? Or do I keep the long poem sections in the same overall table structure, and structure them as if it's stage direction interrupting dialog? (Without the poem sections being italicised, of course.) Or something else entirely?
• 
• I've rearranged the poem order so that they're ordered based on likely date of composition. What this means is that the footnotes are out of order from what they were in the original publication. When I move the footnotes to the endnotes, this means I'll have to re-number each one, both in the text and in the endnotes.xhtml file, so that they're in the proper order. Would this re-numbering be considered an editorial commit, or no?
• In the picture below, each note has the name of the note (such as "Note 20"), the page it's found on, the line of the poem it's attached to (in italics), and the endnote itself. The transcription I'm working with has the same information in each endnote. The title of the endnote, the page it's on, and the line of the poem are all unnecessary for an ebook, and worthy of deletion. I assume that deleting this information is an editorial commit?
• 

Thanks,

Devin

[Alex Cabal]

On 7/21/25 2:09 PM, Devin O'Bannon wrote:
> Hello David,
>
> I've gotten back to work on this, and I had some questions about
> formatting, as well as commits.
>

> * In the poem "Tristram and Iseult," there are alternations between

> dialog and long epic poem sections, designated by the long series of
> dots in the picture below. I'm trying to figure out how to write
> this in HTML. Would I structure the dialog sections each as their
> own separate tables, and then put the long poetic sections in their
> own blockquotes? Or do I keep the long poem sections in the same
> overall table structure, and structure them as if it's stage
> direction interrupting dialog? (Without the poem sections being
> italicised, of course.) Or something else entirely?

You can do the voices like
https://github.com/standardebooks/william-wordsworth_samuel-taylor-coleridge_lyrical-ballads/blob/8a04c4808060e3a1602e682989a2466f8ab1a031/src/epub/text/volume-1.xhtml#L840

Then <hr/>, then a regular stanza

> * Screenshot 2025-07-21 at 1.41.52 PM.png
> * I've rearranged the poem order so that they're ordered based on

> likely date of composition. What this means is that the footnotes
> are out of order from what they were in the original publication.
> When I move the footnotes to the endnotes, this means I'll have to
> re-number each one, both in the text and in the endnotes.xhtml file,
> so that they're in the proper order. Would this re-numbering be
> considered an editorial commit, or no?

No. You can use `se renumber-endnotes` to help with that.

> * In the picture below, each note has the name of the note (such as

> "Note 20"), the page it's found on, the line of the poem it's
> attached to (in italics), and the endnote itself. The transcription
> I'm working with has the same information in each endnote. The title
> of the endnote, the page it's on, and the line of the poem are all
> unnecessary for an ebook, and worthy of deletion. I assume that
> deleting this information is an editorial commit?

> * Screenshot 2025-07-21 at 1.57.43 PM.png

No, I don't think it changes the meaning of anything to remove the page refs

[Devin O'Bannon]

Hello all,

As I've been checking over the poems, I've realised that the 2nd source of page scans I was using is in fact more recent, and aligns more with the other scholarly reference I was using, which was Alott 1964. Alott mentions that there are variants of his poems that are around, so it seems better to me to use the 1922 edition (the 1st source of page scans I was using was an 1897 edition). (I will still have to use each of these page scans for some poems, as none of the scans have all of the poems.) (Obviously I will not be using Alott 1964 as a page scan reference in any way, thus violating copyright.)

As such, my main reference I will be using is this one: https://archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft. (It's nicer to use anyway as it actually fits the transcription more closely than the 1897 page scans I was using.)

It also looks like this 1922 version has the same notes as the 1897 edition, but also adds other endnotes the other does not. I will add these notes to the ebook.

I had a question about the endnotes:

• Endnote 29 (for the poem "Thyrsis") says, "Throughout this poem there is reference to the preceding piece, “The Scholar-Gipsy.” " However, since the poems are re-ordered, this means that "The Scholar-Gipsy" is no longer the immediately preceding poem. Should I slightly alter the content of the reference (such as calling it "another piece" rather than "the preceding piece"), or should I leave the reference as-is and just add an editorial note?

Thanks,

Devin

[Alex Cabal]

OK! You can just cut the phrase "the precedeing piece".

On 7/27/25 4:22 PM, Devin O'Bannon wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> As I've been checking over the poems, I've realised that the 2nd source

> of page scans <https://archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft> I

> was using is in fact more recent, and aligns more with the other

> scholarly reference I was using, which was Alott 1964 <https://
> archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar0000kenn>. Alott mentions that there

> are variants of his poems that are around, so it seems better to me to

> use the 1922 edition (the 1st source of page scans I was using <https://
> archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/page/n11/mode/2up> was an 1897

> edition). (I will still have to use each of these page scans for some
> poems, as none of the scans have all of the poems.) (Obviously I will
> not be using Alott 1964 as a page scan reference in any way, thus
> violating copyright.)
>

> As such, my main reference I will be using is this one: https://
> archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft <https://archive.org/
> details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft>. (It's nicer to use anyway as it

> actually fits the transcription more closely than the 1897 page scans I
> was using.)
>
> It also looks like this 1922 version has the same notes as the 1897
> edition, but also adds other endnotes the other does not. I will add
> these notes to the ebook.
>
> I had a question about the endnotes:
>

> * Endnote 29 (for the poem "Thyrsis") says, "Throughout this poem

> volume-1.xhtml#L840 <https://github.com/standardebooks/william-
> wordsworth_samuel-taylor-coleridge_lyrical-ballads/
> blob/8a04c4808060e3a1602e682989a2466f8ab1a031/src/epub/text/
> volume-1.xhtml#L840>

>
> Then <hr/>, then a regular stanza
>
> > * Screenshot 2025-07-21 at 1.41.52 PM.png
> > * I've rearranged the poem order so that they're ordered based on
> > likely date of composition. What this means is that the footnotes
> > are out of order from what they were in the original publication.
> > When I move the footnotes to the endnotes, this means I'll have to
> > re-number each one, both in the text and in the endnotes.xhtml file,
> > so that they're in the proper order. Would this re-numbering be
> > considered an editorial commit, or no?
>
> No. You can use `se renumber-endnotes` to help with that.
>
> > * In the picture below, each note has the name of the note (such as
> > "Note 20"), the page it's found on, the line of the poem it's
> > attached to (in italics), and the endnote itself. The transcription
> > I'm working with has the same information in each endnote. The title
> > of the endnote, the page it's on, and the line of the poem are all
> > unnecessary for an ebook, and worthy of deletion. I assume that
> > deleting this information is an editorial commit?
> > * Screenshot 2025-07-21 at 1.57.43 PM.png
>
> No, I don't think it changes the meaning of anything to remove the
> page refs
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

> standardebooks/c3d61d36-bdaf-477d-bf7a-a06ea22e7945n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/c3d61d36-bdaf-477d-
> bf7a-a06ea22e7945n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Devin O'Bannon]

Hello all,

Another thing: In the transcription I'm working with, there's sometimes publication information in the beginning, as in the picture below. (This is the only version of "Cromwell" I've seen with a synopsis, so I'll leave it out.) Sometimes it's genuinely helpful info for establishing context, such as in "Westminster Abbey," which specifies it was written for the burial of the Dean of Westminster. I'm unsure of how to code this, however. Do I include it as a subtitle? Do it as an epigraph? Or do it move it to an endnote?

Thanks,

Devin

[Alex Cabal]

I would move it to an endnote. Titles may have noterefs.

On 7/27/25 5:11 PM, Devin O'Bannon wrote:
> Hello all,
>

> Another thing: In the transcription I'm working with, there's sometimes
> publication information in the beginning, as in the picture below. (This
> is the only version of "Cromwell" I've seen with a synopsis, so I'll
> leave it out.) Sometimes it's genuinely helpful info for establishing
> context, such as in "Westminster Abbey," which specifies it was written
> for the burial of the Dean of Westminster. I'm unsure of how to code
> this, however. Do I include it as a subtitle? Do it as an epigraph? Or
> do it move it to an endnote?
>

> Screenshot 2025-07-27 at 5.01.34 PM.png
>
> Thanks,
>
> Devin
>
> On Sunday, July 27, 2025 at 4:23:27 PM UTC-5 Alex Cabal wrote:
>
> OK! You can just cut the phrase "the precedeing piece".
>
> On 7/27/25 4:22 PM, Devin O'Bannon wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > As I've been checking over the poems, I've realised that the 2nd
> source

> > of page scans <https://archive.org/details/
> poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft <https://archive.org/details/

> poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft>> I
> > was using is in fact more recent, and aligns more with the other
> > scholarly reference I was using, which was Alott 1964 <https://

> > archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar0000kenn <http://archive.org/

> details/poemsofmatthewar0000kenn>>. Alott mentions that there
> > are variants of his poems that are around, so it seems better to
> me to
> > use the 1922 edition (the 1st source of page scans I was using
> <https://
> > archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/page/n11/mode/2up

> <http://archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/page/n11/

> mode/2up>> was an 1897
> > edition). (I will still have to use each of these page scans for
> some
> > poems, as none of the scans have all of the poems.) (Obviously I
> will
> > not be using Alott 1964 as a page scan reference in any way, thus
> > violating copyright.)
> >
> > As such, my main reference I will be using is this one: https://

> > archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft <http://
> archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft> <https://
> archive.org/ <https://archive.org/>

> taylor- <https://github.com/standardebooks/william-
> wordsworth_samuel-taylor->

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> > standardebooks/c3d61d36-bdaf-477d-bf7a-
> a06ea22e7945n%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/c3d61d36-
> bdaf-477d- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
> c3d61d36-bdaf-477d->
> > bf7a-a06ea22e7945n%40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

> standardebooks/559e13a4-fab4-417c-8259-0ba99779fb2dn%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/559e13a4-
> fab4-417c-8259-0ba99779fb2dn%40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Devin O'Bannon]

Hello all,

Looking at each poem in these page scans, it looks like once in a while there is some information about context (such as in the picture above, saying "A prize poem recited..." But on every poem, there is publication information (when it was first published and then reprinted). While other information (such as the occasion the poem was written) is worth including in an endnote, I'd rather not include publication information in an endnote, because it means that every poem would have an endnote link in its title, which I think would be distracting for the reader. So I have two ideas:

• Create a section where there is publication information, which includes the dates each poem was published, and which publication they were published in.
• Delete this information from the ebook.

There are also textual variants included in different notes, as Arnold updated this poems over the course of time, but I will not include these in this production.

So I think either a special section or removing it altogether are fine options, but let me know if you think of better ones. I don't mind including it as a specific section, as I find it interesting, but if we want to just delete it, that's fine too.

Thanks,

Devin

[Alex Cabal]

Just cut the publication information. That is easily found online now.

On 7/29/25 9:43 AM, Devin O'Bannon wrote:
> Hello all,
>

> Looking at each poem in these page scans, it looks like once in a while
> there is some information about context (such as in the picture above,
> saying "A prize poem recited..." But on every poem, there is publication
> information (when it was first published and then reprinted). While
> other information (such as the occasion the poem was written) is worth
> including in an endnote, I'd rather not include publication information
> in an endnote, because it means that every poem would have an endnote
> link in its title, which I think would be distracting for the reader. So
> I have two ideas:
>

> * Create a section where there is publication information, which

> includes the dates each poem was published, and which publication
> they were published in.

> * Delete this information from the ebook.

> > > of page scans <https://archive.org/details/ <https://
> archive.org/details/>
> > poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft <https://archive.org/details/

> <https://archive.org/details/>
> > poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft>> I
> > > was using is in fact more recent, and aligns more with the other
> > > scholarly reference I was using, which was Alott 1964 <https://
> > > archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar0000kenn <http://

> archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar0000kenn> <http://archive.org/

> <http://archive.org/>
> > details/poemsofmatthewar0000kenn>>. Alott mentions that there
> > > are variants of his poems that are around, so it seems better to
> > me to
> > > use the 1922 edition (the 1st source of page scans I was using
> > <https://
> > > archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/page/n11/mode/2up
> <http://archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/page/n11/mode/2up>

> > <http://archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/page/n11/

> <http://archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/page/n11/>
> > mode/2up>> was an 1897
> > > edition). (I will still have to use each of these page scans for
> > some
> > > poems, as none of the scans have all of the poems.) (Obviously I
> > will
> > > not be using Alott 1964 as a page scan reference in any way, thus
> > > violating copyright.)
> > >
> > > As such, my main reference I will be using is this one: https://
> > > archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft <http://

> archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft> <http://

> > archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft <http://
> archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft>> <https://

> > archive.org/ <http://archive.org/> <https://archive.org/

> > taylor- <https://github.com/standardebooks/william- <https://
> github.com/standardebooks/william->

> > wordsworth_samuel-taylor->
> > > coleridge_lyrical-ballads/
> > > blob/8a04c4808060e3a1602e682989a2466f8ab1a031/src/epub/text/
> > > volume-1.xhtml#L840 <https://github.com/standardebooks/william-
> <https://github.com/standardebooks/william->

> > <https://github.com/standardebooks/william- <https://github.com/
> standardebooks/william->>
> > > wordsworth_samuel-taylor-coleridge_lyrical-ballads/
> > > blob/8a04c4808060e3a1602e682989a2466f8ab1a031/src/epub/text/
> > > volume-1.xhtml#L840>
> > >

> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/
> msgid/>>
> > > standardebooks/c3d61d36-bdaf-477d-bf7a-
> > a06ea22e7945n%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>
> > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/c3d61d36-

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/c3d61d36->
> > bdaf-477d- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/>
> > c3d61d36-bdaf-477d->

> > > bf7a-a06ea22e7945n%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>?
> > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>?

> > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
> > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> > standardebooks/559e13a4-
> fab4-417c-8259-0ba99779fb2dn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/559e13a4-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/559e13a4->
> > fab4-417c-8259-0ba99779fb2dn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>?

> > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

> standardebooks/82c95801-c122-4bdc-8da0-3f0a9578b3d2n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/82c95801-
> c122-4bdc-8da0-3f0a9578b3d2n%40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Devin O'Bannon]

OK, that's fine by me.

The poem "Sohrab and Rustum" is based on a story from the Persian epic Shahnameh (The Book of Kings), and as such, includes names of various places and ethnic groups from Central Asia.

Various spellings are so close to their modern spellings, that it'd be worth modernizing them. ("se modernize-spelling" already did this in some cases with other names: "Soudan" to "Sudan" and "Samarcand" to "Samarkand.")

Some seem clear-cut changes to make:

• Adber-bajan to Azerbaijan
• Cabool to Kabul
• Ferghana to Fergana
• Kalmuks to Kalmyks
• Seistan to Sistan
• Khorassan to Khorasan

Two are a little less clear-cut, but I think should still be changed:

• "Toorkmuns" to "Turkmens." (This is the dominant ethnic group in modern-day Turkmenistan.) I don't think people would get confused that it'd be referring to Turks (as in, the Turkish people), but that was my only concern with modernization. Ultimately, I don't think the confusion would be there for most, and I think it should be modernized. (It reminds me of the archaic spelling "Hindoo" versus current-day "Hindu.")
• "Kuzzaks" to "Kazakhs." The archaic spelling ("Kuzzaks") might make a modern reader think Arnold is referring to the Cossacks, the group in western Russia, when he is most certainly referring to the Kazakhs (who are farther east of the Cossacks). Modernizing the spelling makes it clearer to the modern reader that it's the Kazakhs, not the Cossacks.

I'd like to modernize these spellings once I'm done updating the text based on the most recent edition of the poem, but I wanted to throw it out there just in case there were any concerns.

Thanks,

Devin

[Devin O'Bannon]

I could also modernize the names, too (such as "Kai Khosroo" to "Kay Khosrow"), which I'd be fine with, but I'm not sure if that's a bridge too far for some. (It wouldn't change the spelling of the two main people's names, Sohrab and Rustum.)

Devin

[Alex Cabal]

I think that all sounds fine

On 7/30/25 12:44 PM, Devin O'Bannon wrote:
> OK, that's fine by me.
>

> The poem "Sohrab and Rustum" is based on a story from the Persian epic /
> Shahnameh/ (The Book of Kings), and as such, includes names of various

> places and ethnic groups from Central Asia.
>
> Various spellings are so close to their modern spellings, that it'd be
> worth modernizing them. ("se modernize-spelling" already did this in
> some cases with other names: "Soudan" to "Sudan" and "Samarcand" to
> "Samarkand.")
>
> Some seem clear-cut changes to make:
>

> * Adber-bajan to Azerbaijan
> * Cabool to Kabul
> * Ferghana to Fergana
> * Kalmuks to Kalmyks
> * Seistan to Sistan
> * Khorassan to Khorasan

>
> Two are a little less clear-cut, but I think should still be changed:
>

> * "Toorkmuns" to "Turkmens." (This is the dominant ethnic group in

> modern-day Turkmenistan.) I don't think people would get confused
> that it'd be referring to Turks (as in, the Turkish people), but
> that was my only concern with modernization. Ultimately, I don't
> think the confusion would be there for most, and I think it should
> be modernized. (It reminds me of the archaic spelling "Hindoo"
> versus current-day "Hindu.")

> * "Kuzzaks" to "Kazakhs." The archaic spelling ("Kuzzaks") might make

> archive.org/details/> <https://
> > archive.org/details/ <http://archive.org/details/>>

> > > poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft <https://archive.org/details/
> <https://archive.org/details/>
> > <https://archive.org/details/ <https://archive.org/details/>>
> > > poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft>> I
> > > > was using is in fact more recent, and aligns more with the other
> > > > scholarly reference I was using, which was Alott 1964 <https://
> > > > archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar0000kenn <http://

> archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar0000kenn> <http://

> > archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar0000kenn <http://archive.org/
> details/poemsofmatthewar0000kenn>> <http://archive.org/ <http://
> archive.org/>
> > <http://archive.org/ <http://archive.org/>>
> > > details/poemsofmatthewar0000kenn>>. Alott mentions that there
> > > > are variants of his poems that are around, so it seems better to
> > > me to
> > > > use the 1922 edition (the 1st source of page scans I was using
> > > <https://
> > > > archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/page/n11/mode/2up
> <http://archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/page/n11/mode/2up>
> > <http://archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/page/n11/

> mode/2up <http://archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/page/n11/
> mode/2up>>
> > > <http://archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/page/n11/
> <http://archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/page/n11/>

> > <http://archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/page/n11/
> <http://archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/page/n11/>>
> > > mode/2up>> was an 1897
> > > > edition). (I will still have to use each of these page scans for
> > > some
> > > > poems, as none of the scans have all of the poems.) (Obviously I
> > > will
> > > > not be using Alott 1964 as a page scan reference in any way,
> thus
> > > > violating copyright.)
> > > >
> > > > As such, my main reference I will be using is this one: https://
> > > > archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft <http://
> archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft> <http://
> > archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft <http://

> archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft>> <http://

> > > archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft <http://
> archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft> <http://
> > archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft <http://
> archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft>>> <https://

> > > archive.org/ <http://archive.org/> <http://archive.org/

> github.com/standardebooks/william-> <https://
> > github.com/standardebooks/william- <http://github.com/
> standardebooks/william->>
> > > wordsworth_samuel-taylor->
> > > > coleridge_lyrical-ballads/
> > > > blob/8a04c4808060e3a1602e682989a2466f8ab1a031/src/epub/text/
> > > > volume-1.xhtml#L840 <https://github.com/standardebooks/
> william- <https://github.com/standardebooks/william->
> > <https://github.com/standardebooks/william- <https://github.com/
> standardebooks/william->>
> > > <https://github.com/standardebooks/william- <https://
> github.com/standardebooks/william-> <https://github.com/ <https://

> github.com/>
> > standardebooks/william->>
> > > > wordsworth_samuel-taylor-coleridge_lyrical-ballads/
> > > > blob/8a04c4808060e3a1602e682989a2466f8ab1a031/src/epub/text/
> > > > volume-1.xhtml#L840>
> > > >

> > msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://

> groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>
> > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/

> d/msgid/> <https://groups.google.com/d/ <https://groups.google.com/d/>

> > msgid/>>
> > > > standardebooks/c3d61d36-bdaf-477d-bf7a-
> > > a06ea22e7945n%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>
> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>>
> > > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/c3d61d36-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/c3d61d36->
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/c3d61d36-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/c3d61d36->>
> > > bdaf-477d- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/>

> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/ <https://

> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/>>
> > > c3d61d36-bdaf-477d->
> > > > bf7a-a06ea22e7945n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com> <http://40googlegroups.com

> <http://40googlegroups.com>>?
> > > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>?
> > > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> > send
> > > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> > > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.

> > > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/
> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/
> msgid/>>

> > > standardebooks/559e13a4-
> > fab4-417c-8259-0ba99779fb2dn%40googlegroups.com

> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>

> > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/559e13a4-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/559e13a4->

> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/559e13a4-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/559e13a4->>
> > > fab4-417c-8259-0ba99779fb2dn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>

> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>?
> > > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
> > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>

> > standardebooks/82c95801-
> c122-4bdc-8da0-3f0a9578b3d2n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/82c95801-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/82c95801->
> > c122-4bdc-8da0-3f0a9578b3d2n%40googlegroups.com

> <http://40googlegroups.com>?
> > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

> standardebooks/bf29afa5-1bbb-45fe-bba6-8ded74eb9eefn%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/bf29afa5-1bbb-45fe-
> bba6-8ded74eb9eefn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Devin O'Bannon]

Hello all,

I'm unclear as to how to format the following:

As you see from the page scan below, different people talking in this dramatic poem ("Merope") have dialog spaced in such a way so that it's all in one verse, but the words are in different parts of the page, so that it's clear that the dialog is still technically one verse. (It's the "Yes--" "Thou knowest it?" "This, / Who lives, witnesses." "True." part).

Do I treat this like Stichomythia (and format it like normal dramatic dialog), or do I try to indent the lines (since it's the dropped line of a poem, but I can't format it with the "class dl2" or "class dl3")?

Thanks,

Devin

[Alex Cabal]

Emma may give you a better answer with dropped lines, however emulating
the printed page exactly is impossible with HTML/CSS because font widths
differ.

On 8/11/25 9:19 PM, Devin O'Bannon wrote:
> Hello all,
>

> I'm unclear as to how to format the following:
>
> As you see from the page scan below, different people talking in this
> dramatic poem ("Merope") have dialog spaced in such a way so that it's
> all in one verse, but the words are in different parts of the page, so
> that it's clear that the dialog is still technically one verse. (It's
> the "Yes--" "Thou knowest it?" "This, / Who lives, witnesses." "True."
> part).
>
> Do I treat this like Stichomythia (and format it like normal dramatic
> dialog), or do I try to indent the lines (since it's the dropped line of
> a poem, but I can't format it with the "class dl2" or "class dl3")?
>

> > archive.org/details/ <http://archive.org/details/>> <https://
> > > archive.org/details/ <http://archive.org/details/> <http://

> archive.org/details/ <http://archive.org/details/>>>
> > > > poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft <https://archive.org/details/
> <https://archive.org/details/>
> > <https://archive.org/details/ <https://archive.org/details/>>
> > > <https://archive.org/details/ <https://archive.org/details/>
> <https://archive.org/details/ <https://archive.org/details/>>>
> > > > poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft>> I
> > > > > was using is in fact more recent, and aligns more with the
> other
> > > > > scholarly reference I was using, which was Alott 1964
> <https://
> > > > > archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar0000kenn <http://
> archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar0000kenn> <http://
> > archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar0000kenn <http://archive.org/
> details/poemsofmatthewar0000kenn>> <http://
> > > archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar0000kenn <http://
> archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar0000kenn> <http://archive.org/
> <http://archive.org/>
> > details/poemsofmatthewar0000kenn>> <http://archive.org/ <http://

> archive.org/> <http://
> > archive.org/ <http://archive.org/>>
> > > <http://archive.org/ <http://archive.org/> <http://archive.org/

> <http://archive.org/>>>
> > > > details/poemsofmatthewar0000kenn>>. Alott mentions that there
> > > > > are variants of his poems that are around, so it seems
> better to
> > > > me to
> > > > > use the 1922 edition (the 1st source of page scans I was using
> > > > <https://
> > > > > archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/page/n11/mode/2up
> <http://archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/page/n11/mode/2up>
> > <http://archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/page/n11/
> mode/2up <http://archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/page/n11/
> mode/2up>>
> > > <http://archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/page/n11/
> <http://archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/page/n11/>

> > mode/2up <http://archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/page/
> n11/ <http://archive.org/details/poeticalworksofm00arn/page/n11/>

> archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft>>> <http://

> > > > archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft <http://
> archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft> <http://
> > archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft <http://
> archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft>> <http://
> > > archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft <http://
> archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft> <http://
> > archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft <http://
> archive.org/details/poemsofmatthewar00arnouoft>>>> <https://
> > > > archive.org/ <http://archive.org/> <http://archive.org/

> <http://archive.org/>> <http://archive.org/ <http://archive.org/>
> > <http://archive.org/ <http://archive.org/>>> <https://
> archive.org/ <https://archive.org/> <https://archive.org/ <https://

> standardebooks/william-> <http://github.com/ <http://github.com/>

> > standardebooks/william->>
> > > > wordsworth_samuel-taylor->
> > > > > coleridge_lyrical-ballads/
> > > > > blob/8a04c4808060e3a1602e682989a2466f8ab1a031/src/epub/text/
> > > > > volume-1.xhtml#L840 <https://github.com/standardebooks/

> <https://github.com/standardebooks/>
> > william- <https://github.com/standardebooks/william- <https://
> github.com/standardebooks/william->>

> > > <https://github.com/standardebooks/william- <https://
> github.com/standardebooks/william-> <https://github.com/ <https://
> github.com/>
> > standardebooks/william->>

> > > > <https://github.com/standardebooks/william- <https://
> github.com/standardebooks/william-> <https://
> > github.com/standardebooks/william- <http://github.com/

> standardebooks/william->> <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>
> <https://
> > github.com/ <http://github.com/>>

> > groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>>
> > > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/> <https://groups.google.com/ <https://
> groups.google.com/>
> > d/msgid/> <https://groups.google.com/d/ <https://
> groups.google.com/d/> <https://groups.google.com/d/ <https://

> groups.google.com/d/>>
> > > msgid/>>
> > > > > standardebooks/c3d61d36-bdaf-477d-bf7a-
> > > > a06ea22e7945n%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>
> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>>
> > > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>
> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>>>
> > > > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/c3d61d36-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/c3d61d36->
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/c3d61d36-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/c3d61d36->>
> > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/c3d61d36-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/c3d61d36->
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/c3d61d36-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/c3d61d36->>>
> > > > bdaf-477d- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/ <https://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/>>
> > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/ <https://

> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/> <https://
> > groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/ <http://

> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/>>>
> > > > c3d61d36-bdaf-477d->
> > > > > bf7a-a06ea22e7945n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>

> <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>>?

> > > > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40googlegroups.com

> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>
> > > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>

> <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>>?
> > > > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> Google
> > > > Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
> it,
> > > send
> > > > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> > > > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> > > > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/

> <https://groups.google.com/d/>
> > msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>
> > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/
> d/msgid/> <https://groups.google.com/d/ <https://groups.google.com/d/>
> > msgid/>>

> > > > standardebooks/559e13a4-
> > > fab4-417c-8259-0ba99779fb2dn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>

> > > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>>

> > > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/559e13a4-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/559e13a4->
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/559e13a4-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/559e13a4->>
> > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/559e13a4-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/559e13a4->
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/559e13a4-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/559e13a4->>>
> > > > fab4-417c-8259-0ba99779fb2dn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>

> > > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>>?
> > > > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> > send
> > > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> > > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> > > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/
> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/
> msgid/>>

> > > standardebooks/82c95801-
> > c122-4bdc-8da0-3f0a9578b3d2n%40googlegroups.com

> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>

> > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/82c95801-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/82c95801->

> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/82c95801-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/82c95801->>
> > > c122-4bdc-8da0-3f0a9578b3d2n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>

> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>?
> > > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
> > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>

> > standardebooks/bf29afa5-1bbb-45fe-
> bba6-8ded74eb9eefn%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
> bf29afa5-1bbb-45fe- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> standardebooks/bf29afa5-1bbb-45fe->
> > bba6-8ded74eb9eefn%40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40googlegroups.com?

> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

> standardebooks/ffb96a18-8527-410b-97cd-3f7fe9df78d0n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
> ffb96a18-8527-410b-97cd-3f7fe9df78d0n%40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Vince]

Well, it can be done, but I don’t think it’s something we want to do.

[Emma Sweeney]

In the example, you should treat the text like Stichomythia, because the characters are exchanging rapid dialog.

We only format dropped lines when it is inside of a stanza.

Emma

[Devin O'Bannon]

Hello Emma,

OK, thanks, that makes sense.

Devin

[Devin O'Bannon]

Hello all,

Two questions:

• I'm currently working on metadata, and it's a bit unclear to me how to phrase the imprint and colophon regarding transcription. The main source I worked with was at PG, and I also transcribed several poems myself. I added myself as a transcriber in content.opf, but when it comes to the imprint and colophon, saying that the transcription comes from "various sources" will look odd if I'm linking to only one PG link. Do I ignore myself as a transcriber altogether? Do I say the transcriptions come from various sources? I'm not sure who to phrase it, according to the SEMoS. Any guidance will be appreciated.
• Also, in poetry collections, we try to include everything in one file, in as much as possible. However, poetry.xhtml seems rather large to me at this point (1.1MB), and I was wondering what the threshold is for splitting a poem out from the overall collection. It it calculated by words? Lines of code? There's one rather long dramatic poem I could split out ("Merope"), but I was wondering about what criteria needs to be fulfilled when a poem requires it's own file, just in case there are others I need to split out, too. (I like keeping the poems in order of their date of composition, so if no splitting is required, then great, but if it is required, that's fine too.)

Thanks,

Devin

[David Reimer]

I can help with #1, but not so sure about #2:

1. In cases where I've included own-transcriptions along with PG
(etc.) transcriptions, I just ignored my own transcriptions for
colophon (and imprint) purposes, and included that information in the
`<meta property="se:production-notes">` field in `content.opf`. The
sources can also be commented to indicate what they are limited to.
This is how the Trollope Shorts content.opf looks:
https://github.com/standardebooks/anthony-trollope_short-fiction/blob/b9e96c8393d8ed455846c8d3d19a4b7c7a38debc/src/epub/content.opf#L47

2. As for size of file, here I simply don't know. Perhaps Emma or Alex
(or other) could weigh in on this one?

On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 at 03:44, Devin O'Bannon wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>

> Two questions:
>
> (1) I'm currently working on metadata, and it's a bit unclear to me how to phrase the imprint and colophon regarding transcription. The main source I worked with was at PG, and I also transcribed several poems myself. I added myself as a transcriber in content.opf, but when it comes to the imprint and colophon, saying that the transcription comes from "various sources" will look odd if I'm linking to only one PG link. Do I ignore myself as a transcriber altogether? Do I say the transcriptions come from various sources? I'm not sure who to phrase it, according to the SEMoS. Any guidance will be appreciated.
> (2) Also, in poetry collections, we try to include everything in one file, in as much as possible. However, poetry.xhtml seems rather large to me at this point (1.1MB), and I was wondering what the threshold is for splitting a poem out from the overall collection. It it calculated by words? Lines of code? There's one rather long dramatic poem I could split out ("Merope"), but I was wondering about what criteria needs to be fulfilled when a poem requires it's own file, just in case there are others I need to split out, too. (I like keeping the poems in order of their date of composition, so if no splitting is required, then great, but if it is required, that's fine too.)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Devin

[Alex Cabal]

File size doesn't matter. 1MB is fine.

[Vince]

Also note that we don’t add ourselves as transcribers, we just add the trc role to the producer entry.

[Devin O'Bannon]

Thanks everyone, that's helpful!

Devin

[Devin O'Bannon]

Hello,

Now I'm running through se lint, and running into some issues I'm unsure of how to resolve. Here are the issues that I'm having trouble with (in the picture below):

In "The Strayed Reveller" (which is a dramatic poem and styled as drama), there is introductory stage direction (as seen the picture below) that I have styled according to SEMoS 7.6.7.3. However, lint is complaining that the <p> doesn't have a <span> element, since the article has "z3998:poem" semantics. Is there something I need to do instead, or just put it in a se-lint-ignore?

The other complaint is that <br/> element found before closing tag of block-level element. Now, there are over 12,000 <br/> elements in this file, so trying to find it is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Is there a way se lint (or some other tool) can find out where the issue is located in the file?

(And the titlecase issue is due to lint not recognising that "The Bottle" is the title of a painting, and it has been italicised and semanticated as such.. So I will have to make an se-lint-ignore for at least that issue.)

Thanks,

Devin

[David]

Here's my stab - 

1. Strayed Reveller - should that line be a "stage direction"? Or could it be a "bridgehead", and wrap a `header` around it, to remove it from the "body" of the poem?

2. That rogue `<br/>` is in line 26,724, following `Leap, and fly open of themselves for joy!`. You can wrap regex around a line (or more) using the models in this post (I use this ALL the time!).

3. Titlecase issue isn't just "The Bottle", but the "On Seeing For..." which should be "for...". Personally, I'd lowercase "the Bottle" as well, but perhaps the lint-ignore for that is preferable.

[Devin O'Bannon]

Hello David,

I'll treat that as stage direction, then. (It doesn't seem to be a bridgehead, according to that section.)

And thanks for the regrex! That's quite helpful.

And "The Bottle" refers to George Cruikshank's The Bottle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bottle_(etchings). So it looks like the "The" should be capitalised. I'll put it in the lint-ignore. (But yes, I missed the "for/For," so I'll fix that.)

Thanks,

Devin

[Alex Cabal]

That is not stage direction, it can be a bridghead. You need a <header>
element to offset heading material like that.

On 8/20/25 1:01 PM, Devin O'Bannon wrote:
> Hello David,
>
> I'll treat that as stage direction, then. (It doesn't seem to be a
> bridgehead, according to that section.)
>
> And thanks for the regrex! That's quite helpful.
>

> And "The Bottle" refers to George Cruikshank's /The Bottle/: https://
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bottle_(etchings) <https://en.wikipedia.org/
> wiki/The_Bottle_(etchings)>. So it looks like the "The" should be

> capitalised. I'll put it in the lint-ignore. (But yes, I missed the
> "for/For," so I'll fix that.)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Devin
>
> On Wednesday, August 20, 2025 at 11:15:22 AM UTC-5 David wrote:
>
> Here's my stab -
>
> 1. Strayed Reveller - should that line be a "stage direction"? Or

> could it be a "bridgehead <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.4/
> single-page#7.2.11>", and wrap a `header` around it, to remove it

> from the "body" of the poem?
>
> 2. That rogue `<br/>` is in line 26,724, following `Leap, and fly
> open of themselves for joy!`. You can wrap regex around a line (or

> more) using the models in this post <https://yanohirota.com/en/
> regex-delete-row/> (I use this ALL the time!).

>
> 3. Titlecase issue isn't just "The Bottle", but the "On Seeing
> For..." which should be "for...". Personally, I'd lowercase "the
> Bottle" as well, but perhaps the lint-ignore for that is preferable.
>
> On Wednesday, 20 August 2025 at 16:59:58 UTC+1 Devin wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Now I'm running through se lint, and running into some issues
> I'm unsure of how to resolve. Here are the issues that I'm
> having trouble with (in the picture below):
>

> Screenshot 2025-08-20 at 10.22.49 AM.png
>
> In "The Strayed Reveller" (which is a dramatic poem and styled
> as drama), there is introductory stage direction (as seen the
> picture below) that I have styled according to SEMoS 7.6.7.3.
> However, lint is complaining that the <p> doesn't have a <span>
> element, since the article has "z3998:poem" semantics. Is there
> something I need to do instead, or just put it in a se-lint-ignore?

> Screenshot 2025-08-20 at 10.22.38 AM.png
>
> The other complaint is that <br/> element found before closing
> tag of block-level element. Now, there are over 12,000 <br/>
> elements in this file, so trying to find it is like trying to
> find a needle in a haystack. Is there a way se lint (or some
> other tool) can find out where the issue is located in the file?
>
> (And the titlecase issue is due to lint not recognising that
> "The Bottle" is the title of a painting, and it has been
> italicised and semanticated as such.. So I will have to make an
> se-lint-ignore for at least that issue.)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Devin
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

> standardebooks/708b0e67-cbf3-4a41-87c4-e77c5e772fe9n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/708b0e67-
> cbf3-4a41-87c4-e77c5e772fe9n%40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Emma Sweeney]

"The portico of Circe's palace. Evening." is an introductory scene description. It usually doesn't go in a header. You don't need to tag the whole work with `z3998:poem` since every dialog is tagged with `z3998:verse`. Take a look at Oedipus Rex's formatting.

Emma

[Alex Cabal]

Oops, I missed the fact that this was structured as drama!

On 8/20/25 1:13 PM, Emma Sweeney wrote:
> "The portico of Circe's palace. Evening." is an introductory scene

> description <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/how-to-
> conquer-complex-drama-formatting#introductory-scene-descriptions>. It

> usually doesn't go in a header. You don't need to tag the whole work
> with `z3998:poem` since every dialog is tagged with `z3998:verse`. Take

> a look at Oedipus Rex <https://github.com/standardebooks/
> sophocles_oedipus-rex_francis-storr/blob/master/src/epub/text/oedipus-
> rex.xhtml>'s formatting.

>
> Emma
> On Wednesday, August 20, 2025 at 2:03:36 PM UTC-4 Alex Cabal wrote:
>
> That is not stage direction, it can be a bridghead. You need a <header>
> element to offset heading material like that.
>
> On 8/20/25 1:01 PM, Devin O'Bannon wrote:
> > Hello David,
> >
> > I'll treat that as stage direction, then. (It doesn't seem to be a
> > bridgehead, according to that section.)
> >
> > And thanks for the regrex! That's quite helpful.
> >
> > And "The Bottle" refers to George Cruikshank's /The Bottle/:
> https://

> > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bottle_(etchings) <http://
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bottle_(etchings)> <https://
> en.wikipedia.org/ <https://en.wikipedia.org/>

> > wiki/The_Bottle_(etchings)>. So it looks like the "The" should be
> > capitalised. I'll put it in the lint-ignore. (But yes, I missed the
> > "for/For," so I'll fix that.)
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Devin
> >
> > On Wednesday, August 20, 2025 at 11:15:22 AM UTC-5 David wrote:
> >
> > Here's my stab -
> >
> > 1. Strayed Reveller - should that line be a "stage direction"? Or
> > could it be a "bridgehead <https://standardebooks.org/

> manual/1.8.4/ <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.4/>

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> > standardebooks/708b0e67-cbf3-4a41-87c4-
> e77c5e772fe9n%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/708b0e67-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/708b0e67->
> > cbf3-4a41-87c4-e77c5e772fe9n%40googlegroups.com

> <http://40googlegroups.com>?
> > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

> standardebooks/85dc30ee-21a3-48a1-829a-12834b8756f9n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> standardebooks/85dc30ee-21a3-48a1-829a-12834b8756f9n%40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Devin O'Bannon]

Hello Emma,

OK, that makes sense, thanks. I'll remove the "z3998:poem" semantics from each <article> that has drama structure, though it seems like I should keep it on "Tristram and Iseult," since there are drama sections that alternate with regular poetry sections. (You all can correct me if I'm wrong on that, though.)

Thanks,

Devin

[Emma Sweeney]

Oops, I missed "A Youth. Circe." in the <hgroup>. This would also be an introductory scene description under the title.

I haven't taken a look at "Tristram and Iseult," so I can't say.

Emma

[Devin O'Bannon]

Hello,

I'm finding one more odd se lint issue, seen below in the picture.

When I run se lint, it says that one of the css selectors (pasted in from section 7.5.8) is unused. That's when the CSS looks like this (with other unused selectors already deleted):

[epub|type~="z3998:poem"] hgroup p,
[epub|type~="z3998:verse"] hgroup p{
text-align: center;
}

When I delete that particular CSS selector se lint tells me is unused, the CSS looks like this:

[epub|type~="z3998:poem"] hgroup p{
text-align: center;
}

And then when I run se lint again, I get errors that it's missing the corresponding style (seen in the picture above). So is the style being used, or is it not? Am I deleting something I shouldn't?

Thanks,

Devin

[Alex Cabal]

It is likely missing a different boilerplate style for verse. hgroup > p
is not a boilerplate style for verse so that's not what's causing that
error.

On 8/20/25 4:07 PM, Devin O'Bannon wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm finding one more odd se lint issue, seen below in the picture.

> how-to- <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/how-to->
> > conquer-complex-drama-formatting#introductory-scene-

> descriptions>. It
> > usually doesn't go in a header. You don't need to tag the
> whole work
> > with `z3998:poem` since every dialog is tagged with
> `z3998:verse`. Take
> > a look at Oedipus Rex <https://github.com/standardebooks/

> <https://github.com/standardebooks/>
> > sophocles_oedipus-rex_francis-storr/blob/master/src/epub/

> text/oedipus-
> > rex.xhtml>'s formatting.
> >
> > Emma
> > On Wednesday, August 20, 2025 at 2:03:36 PM UTC-4 Alex Cabal
> wrote:
> >
> > That is not stage direction, it can be a bridghead. You need
> a <header>
> > element to offset heading material like that.
> >
> > On 8/20/25 1:01 PM, Devin O'Bannon wrote:
> > > Hello David,
> > >
> > > I'll treat that as stage direction, then. (It doesn't seem
> to be a
> > > bridgehead, according to that section.)
> > >
> > > And thanks for the regrex! That's quite helpful.
> > >
> > > And "The Bottle" refers to George Cruikshank's /The Bottle/:
> > https://
> > > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bottle_(etchings) <http://

> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bottle_(etchings)> <http://

> > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bottle_(etchings) <http://
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bottle_(etchings)>> <https://

> > en.wikipedia.org/ <http://en.wikipedia.org/> <https://

> > > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/
> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>

> > > standardebooks/708b0e67-cbf3-4a41-87c4-
> > e77c5e772fe9n%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>

> > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/708b0e67-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/708b0e67->
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/708b0e67-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/708b0e67->>
> > > cbf3-4a41-87c4-e77c5e772fe9n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>

> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>?

> > > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> Google
> > Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
> it, send
> > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/

> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> >
> standardebooks/85dc30ee-21a3-48a1-829a-12834b8756f9n%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> >
> standardebooks/85dc30ee-21a3-48a1-829a-12834b8756f9n%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>?

> > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

> standardebooks/259388b8-084c-49ca-92c0-500ea56ca637n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> standardebooks/259388b8-084c-49ca-92c0-500ea56ca637n%40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Devin O'Bannon]

Hello all,

I figured out the CSS issue, and it has been fixed.

I believe this is ready for review now. 

Thanks,

Devin

[Vince]

OK, I have a couple in front of this, so probably be the weekend before I get to it.

[Devin O'Bannon]

Hello,

I've been going through some preliminary review stuff with Vince, and while doing so, I realised that "Cromwell" has a synopsis that was for-sure added by Matthew Arnold in later editions of the poem. However, it's unclear to me how to program it. As you can see in the image below, there's the title of the poem (followed by publication info, which will not be included), then the synopsis heading, then the synopsis (a bridgehead), then an epigraph. Before, I programmed it like a header with an epigraph, with the <h2> title element followed by the <blockquote> epigraph element (the quote from Schiller), with both grouped together in a <header> element. But the bridgehead goes between the title and the epigraph, and the bridgehead has its own header. What do I do?

Thanks,

Devin

[Vince]

I’m curious to see what Alex says. It’s clearly a bridgehead, and bridgeheads whole purpose is to “give an abstract or summary” (from SEMoS), so why would it need a header stating the obvious? Beyond that, does a 240-line poem really need a 12-line synopsis? That seems … overkill. How do you know Arnold “for sure” added it? If it was a late addition, is it really needed?

But, as I said, I’m curious to see what Alex says. I usually get these things completely wrong. :)

[Devin O'Bannon]

Hello all,

OK, never mind about the synopsis. I dug a little deeper and found an original, updated copy of the poem "Cromwell." It looks like, yes, the synopsis was added, but it also looks like it was mainly for the single-copy publication, and various later editions use it (including the 1922 page scans I've been using as well as the scholarly reference I've been referring to), while others (such as the 1897 scans I'm using) don't. See here for what I'm talking about: https://archive.org/details/cromwellprizepoe00arnorich/page/n3/mode/2up

Since, as Vince pointed out, it seems rather overmuch to add a synopsis to a 240-line poem (as well as the programming issues), I'm going to leave it out (unless there are any objections).

Devin

[Alex Cabal]

I agree, we can exclude it.

On 8/24/25 9:02 PM, Devin O'Bannon wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> OK, never mind about the synopsis. I dug a little deeper and found an
> original, updated copy of the poem "Cromwell." It looks like, yes, the
> synopsis was added, but it also looks like it was mainly for the single-
> copy publication, and various later editions use it (including the 1922
> page scans I've been using as well as the scholarly reference I've been
> referring to), while others (such as the 1897 scans I'm using) don't.
> See here for what I'm talking about: https://archive.org/details/

> cromwellprizepoe00arnorich/page/n3/mode/2up <https://archive.org/
> details/cromwellprizepoe00arnorich/page/n3/mode/2up>

>
> Since, as Vince pointed out, it seems rather overmuch to add a synopsis
> to a 240-line poem (as well as the programming issues), I'm going to
> leave it out (unless there are any objections).
>
> Devin
>
> On Sunday, August 24, 2025 at 7:17:26 PM UTC-5 Vince wrote:
>
> I’m curious to see what Alex says. It’s clearly a bridgehead, and
> bridgeheads whole purpose is to “give an abstract or summary” (from
> SEMoS), so why would it need a header stating the obvious? Beyond
> that, does a 240-line poem really need a 12-line synopsis? That
> seems … overkill. How do you know Arnold “for sure” added it? If it
> was a late addition, is it really needed?
>
> But, as I said, I’m curious to see what Alex says. I usually get
> these things completely wrong. :)
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

> standardebooks/273a2170-36ea-4280-bfa3-76be1a66133bn%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/273a2170-36ea-4280-
> bfa3-76be1a66133bn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Vince]

Great work on a lot of complicated (to me) formatting, Devin. I’ve opened an issue with a few minor things.

[Vince]

All right, Alex, I believe this is ready for you.

In addition to the first-line CSS discussed in the thread, Devin also created a few more for other instances where the same line (but not the first) was indented the same. I don’t know if they will fly, but I left it for you to decide.

There are some edge cases regarding italics; many of them a person is quoting someone else, usually without quotes but in at least one instance with. I had him make those <q>; if that’s wrong it’s on me, but you’ve mentioned before that <q> can be something of a stand-in for quotes when italics are used in the source for quoted material.

Also, you might want to take a quick glance at the endnotes; a number of them look to me to be the kind of information that you have traditionally left to Wikipedia rather than the text. I believe most/all of them were added by the editor, not the author.

[Alex Cabal]

Great work on a big production. I've gone ahead and released it. Thanks!

I'm not sure where I OK'd special classes for line indentation. Maybe my
search isn't working well. But we already have a class for indenting
lines, `i1`-`iN`. Adding special selectors to indent lines that could
just be `i1` is not something any other ebook does.

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

> standardebooks/B279ED09-4E17-4266-ABB5-D7371B8D03B3%40letterboxes.org
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/B279ED09-4E17-4266-
> ABB5-D7371B8D03B3%40letterboxes.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Devin O'Bannon]

Hello Alex,

Thanks! 

As for the special classes for line indentation, I believe it was in this thread: https://groups.google.com/u/1/g/standardebooks/c/WXuF5U4w4xQ

But if using the ".i1" on each line is preferred, then I'll do that from now on.

Thanks,

Devin

[Alex Cabal]

OK, I see. Upon seeing it in practice, I changed my mind. So let's stick
with standard indentation classes in the future.

On 9/2/25 3:51 PM, Devin O'Bannon wrote:
> Hello Alex,
>
> Thanks!
>
> As for the special classes for line indentation, I believe it was in
> this thread: https://groups.google.com/u/1/g/standardebooks/c/

> WXuF5U4w4xQ <https://groups.google.com/u/1/g/standardebooks/c/WXuF5U4w4xQ>

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> > standardebooks/B279ED09-4E17-4266-ABB5-
> D7371B8D03B3%40letterboxes.org <http://40letterboxes.org>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
> B279ED09-4E17-4266- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> standardebooks/B279ED09-4E17-4266->
> > ABB5-D7371B8D03B3%40letterboxes.org?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40letterboxes.org?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

> standardebooks/7e7fa21e-ed98-4cae-b586-29167eecfba6n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/7e7fa21e-ed98-4cae-
> b586-29167eecfba6n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Vince]

On Sep 2, 2025, at 3:46 PM, Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org> wrote:

Great work on a big production. I've gone ahead and released it. Thanks!

I'm not sure where I OK'd special classes for line indentation. Maybe my search isn't working well. But we already have a class for indenting lines, `i1`-`iN`. Adding special selectors to indent lines that could just be `i1` is not something any other ebook does.

In the “Poetry verse paragraphs” thread just last week, when I specifically asked about it.

On 8/27/25 2:57 PM, Alex Cabal wrote:

You can add a class to simplify things. Classes are fine when there is 
an actual "class" of elements to select, i.e. many elements under some 
common grouping.

On 8/26/25 8:22 PM, Vince Rice wrote:
Perfect, thank you!

Alex, a number of poems in the collection I’m reviewing could use the 
below CSS, but the number is large enough that a class would be needed 
to keep the CSS selector list from getting out of hand.
 
Would you rather him:
 

•  Use the standard i1 markup on each stanza of each poem, or
•  Use a class on each poem and accompanying CSS?

 
Either way requires markup, just of a different kind and quantity.

[Vince]

Oops, sorry, didn’t read all the way to the end!