Topic #2

[Ben]

We are not talking about articles of faith when we speak of view in
Buddhism. We are talking about possibilities to be explored.... These
ideas must be tested in silence. Meditation is a term employed to
describe this internal experimentation.
By meditation nothing fancy is meant, simply sitting and watching.
Looking to see what is real, instead of standing back at a comfortable
distance for the ego and saying what is and what isn’t. Meditation is
an internal atmosphere of exploration. Let your curiosity get the best
of you. Silence is the space that accommodates those ideas and beliefs
we so hastily cling to and identify with. Penetrate the ideas, and
return to silence. Allow silence to reveal the true nature of thought,
as opposed to using thought to contrive and establish a false
viewpoint or sense of self, and therefore consistently arrive at
erroneous conclusions. To allow your curiosity to get the best of you
means to succumb to that primordial longing to recover silence. This
silence begets the most the most basic form of intelligence, sanity.
At the end of the day the view is a basic proposition; is it possible
that within us is the potential to simply reflect reality to such a
degree that we are truth? What if we are so whole and complete that we
are in need of nothing? What if hearing, smelling, seeing, tasting,
touching, and thinking are but waves emerging from an ocean of
awareness? Wondrous!!!

Within the context of our discussion these ideas are not just ideas-
They are possibilities! This is what is meant by view in Buddhism;
inspiration, exploration, and discovery...

How does all the lofty talk about enlightenment strike you?
Idealistic? Ambitious? Delusional? Realistic?
Do you ever stop and really think that all of this lofty talk is the
description of a potential within yourself, a potential that can be
actualized? If so, is that inspiring?

[Ben]

Topic # 2 is obviously entitled, "The View"
Here is a link to a blog I wrote on the view:
http://refugegroupbr.blogspot.com/2010/08/view-hypothesis.html

[john perry]

ben,
don't we have to at least have faith that the process will lead us to
the primordial silence to even try or to continue to practice?
otherwise wouldn't most people quit after the inital internal
self-discussion [during that meditation session] about how it isn't
working? just a thought.

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[Ben]

Faith... This is a great conversation to have... Does faith have its
place within Buddhism? What do y'all think?

On Sep 14, 1:20 pm, john perry <the29thdoc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ben,
> don't we have to at least have faith that the process will lead us to
> the primordial silence to even try or to continue to practice?
> otherwise wouldn't most people quit after the inital internal
> self-discussion [during that meditation session] about how it isn't
> working? just a thought.
>

[Roy]

Yes faith has a place in Buddhism. If one doesn't have faith that what
the Buddha said is true, why bother in trying? If one doesn't have
faith that the suffering of being reborn, getting old and dying can
cease what good is meditation? The Buddha siad believe nothing, even
if he said it, without checking it out for yourself and finding it to
agree with your senses. I have found what the Buddha said agreeable to
my senses, thus I have faith in the four noble truths and the eigth
fold path. If I didn't' I wouldn't waste my time meditating and
attending our sanga.

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>
> - Show quoted text -

[Steed, Robin]

I was reading Cheri Huber just a bit ago. She says that we must have faith in our essential nature and I think this is the kind of faith that John might be referring to- a basic belief that this is something worth trying. I have a basic faith in the scientific method- that if you want to find truth, then you have to set up certain experimental conditions. To me, this is the kind of faith that meditation asks of us- a belief that a method is worth trying, rather than a faith in a cosmic force or God.

[john perry]

yes, robin. the faith is that there is an essential nature [which i
believe is emptiness] and also on a simplier level faith that if the
buddha was correct in the four noble truths [which seem obvious after
you read them the first time] then he was probably right in the need
for meditation to reach this state of emptiness. i do love the
buddha's requirement for truth in that you should test his teachings.
and yes, roy, i caught the comment on attending the sangha but at the
moment i'm not good company for even myself. but thanks for trying.

[Ben]

Well I have a question for everyone:
Is faith, within a Buddhist context, properly directed at a teacher or
teachings? Can you even separate those two things? Or is faith
properly directed at our own potential- not the testing per se, as
that is the process and therefore prescribed or a form of teaching,
but rather directed towards or is faith perhaps an intuition of our
immense capacity to simply know/ basic intelligence?

[dfish...@centurytel.net]

Check out the atachment - Daniel

[rhea morales]

How does all the lofty talk about enlightenment strike you?
Idealistic? Ambitious? Delusional? Realistic?
Do you ever stop and really think that all of this lofty talk is the
description of a potential within yourself, a potential that can be
actualized? If so, is that inspiring?

A long time ago, these things seemed mystical and unreachable because
I was young and was not brought up to think this way. A while ago my
father met an acupressurist who shared his views and he said that it
was mystical magic but now I understand the energy meridians in the
body and it all makes perfect sense. At some point, we have to stop
thinking of things as idealistic or lofty and start seeing them for
what they are. I once wrote an article called "demystifying the
chakras". It explained how the chakras are directly related to our
hormonal system, a concept western thinkers can comprehend. If
someone from a thousand years ago came to to our time and saw the
future, they would think it were magical but it's our reality and we
understand it.

In my own practice, I have come up with my own definition of
enlightenment. I do seek it, but not the way one would seek a
mystical deity or profound unchanging state of bliss. I see it as
awareness and knowledge. I see it as a point where you realize that
you are the master of your own life and you do have choices. Many
things happened when I took this path. Perspectives and answers to
problems in my life opened to me. I stopped blaming others and the
way the world works for my problems. I became my own master.

Finding silence is simply a way to turn off the noise of the mind so
we can truly focus. As Deepak Chopra once said, you still the water
so you can see the ripples in it. You can't see them if you are
making waves. It is only an impossible task if we tell ourselves it
is. So, I say, keep it simple.

Anthony Robbins said something about how pain is an inevitable part of
life. Suffering happens when we don't believe we have the power to
control an unwanted situation. Contemplation teaches us to either
take the reigns and find a way or shift our attitudes if they are
sabotaging us. It doesn't sound very lofty and awe inspiring but, to
me, that is all there is to it. Hamlet said, "there are more things
in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy".
Sounds lofty and idealistic but when you think about it, he was right
and being right makes it very realistic.