Revised Sports Event Proposal

[Jason Johnson]

Hi all,

As I started to write up the collective proposal for our sports extension, I identified a potential need to revise our previous event proposal.  You can find the new proposal in the google drive folder I shared.  Please take the time to review and provide comments in that document or this thread as appropriate. 

My thoughts on the revision are:

- we should include an 'attendance' property within the 'Event' base class

- rather than 'SportsEvent', we use a more generic 'Competition' event class so that we can support other types of competitions not viewed as 'sports' (e.g. cooking, beauty).

- we use the proposed 'hasRoles' instead of 'homeTeam', 'awayTeam', and 'competitor' - 'hostRole' implies the 'home' team and the other competitors are viewed as 'away' team - examples are illustrated in the new proposal.

- we introduce the concept of a 'CompetitionResult' which applies to 'Competition' events - a single 'event' having multiple 'results', each tied to a competitor

- competitors are 'things' and can represent people, organization, or more abstract things like 'cakes' in a baking competition

- statistics for an event are captured within a 'CompetionResult' via a 'statistics' property and apply to that competitor

- statistics for individual athletes and their teams are captured as independent 'CompetitionResults' - the baseball team wins and has aggregate statistics (total runs), the players have individual (runs) and aggregate statistics (batting percentage in the game)

- we introduce a 'ResultType' to capture things like winner, loser, placed, disqualified, etc.

I'm anxious to hear feedback on this, especially from Vicki.

Hope the holidays are treating all of you well.

Cheers,

- Jason

[Tom Grahame BBC]

I like Competition and acknowledging that the idea exists outside of the world of Sports. But I don't know how this particular suggestion will pan out given that SportsEvent is already established - it's certainly already in use at the BBC.

Although I'm a strong advocate of modelling roles for people, I'm not sure that the concept extends in this fashion. I'm not sure the semantics are clear. The notion of 'home' and 'away' is quite a strong one I believe, SportsML and the BBC Sport ontology both identify home/away competitor relationships, albeit in slightly different ways. Additionally, in Soccer at least you can be the home competitor without strictly being the host - at a match during the World Cup for example, where neither team is affiliated to the stadium.

I think I need to see a markup example for ordered event.

Very much in favour of competitor as a 'thing', in particular we need to avoid terms like 'player' or driver'.

CompetitionResult seems like a good approach, I think it solves a problem and would like to see a markup example.

Tom

[Tom Grahame BBC]

Posting on behalf of Jason to the schema-collab list:

On Friday, January 3, 2014 5:32:59 AM UTC-8, Tom Grahame BBC wrote:

I like Competition and acknowledging that the idea exists outside of the world of Sports. But I don't know how this particular suggestion will pan out given that SportsEvent is already established - it's certainly already in use at the BBC

A valid point.  I'm fine with sticking to SportsEvent and then if we want to expand to other competitions, we can insert a super class at that point. 

 

Although I'm a strong advocate of modelling roles for people, I'm not sure that the concept extends in this fashion. I'm not sure the semantics are clear. The notion of 'home' and 'away' is quite a strong one I believe, SportsML and the BBC Sport ontology both identify home/away competitor relationships, albeit in slightly different ways. Additionally, in Soccer at least you can be the home competitor without strictly being the host - at a match during the World Cup for example, where neither team is affiliated to the stadium.

I firmly believe roles apply equally to both people and organizations (agents).  I agree that the idea of using 'hostRole' to imply the home and away teams is fuzzy.  The soccer example is a clear example of where it fails.  What if we introduced a 'homeTeamRole' and 'awayTeamRole'?

 

I think I need to see a markup example for ordered event.

Vicki - can you help out here?

 

Very much in favour of competitor as a 'thing', in particular we need to avoid terms like 'player' or driver'.

CompetitionResult seems like a good approach, I think it solves a problem and would like to see a markup example.

The third and fourth pages of the google document includes examples in JSON-LD.  Did you want Microdata / RDFa based markup examples in addition?

 

Tom

[Tom Grahame BBC]

A valid point.  I'm fine with sticking to SportsEvent and then if we want to expand to other competitions, we can insert a super class at that point.

Great. I'm not strictly opposed to Competition, I just think we should be prepared for rejection. 

I firmly believe roles apply equally to both people and organizations (agents).  I agree that the idea of using 'hostRole' to imply the home and away teams is fuzzy.  The soccer example is a clear example of where it fails.  What if we introduced a 'homeTeamRole' and 'awayTeamRole'?

 

Fine with me, a good point simply made. Happy to extend the concept of roles now that you have reminded of 'agents'.

The third and fourth pages of the google document includes examples in JSON-LD.  Did you want Microdata / RDFa based markup examples in addition?

 

I can see them now, just needed your reminder. Also I think json-ld is a good choice for these examples.

[Vicki Tardif Holland]

I finally reviewed the documents. It took me a little bit of time to catch up on where the role discussion has gone, but now that I understand it I like it. My only advice is to have clear examples to help explain this bit of schema to the larger partners body and eventually to end users.

I also like where we have set up the line between generic statistics and sports-specific stats. We can revisit the major sports in the next round.

Jason, are you still looking for some markup for ordered events?

- Vicki

Vicki Tardif Holland | Ontologist | vta...@google.com 

 

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[Paul Kelly]

Hi everyone, it's been a while since we've seen any activity on this list. I'll be in NYC the week of the 16th and will be running a session on the IPTC's new sports data formats (held at The AP). It would be great to meet with anyone in the area and perhaps discuss how we could push forward the schema.org sports initiative.

Last September Jason sent out an email breaking the work into three parts:

1) agents
2) on-field actions
3) cumulative stats

But I haven't heard anything since. I understand how these things can lose momentum due to busyness and other priorities but it would be nice to take another stab, eh?

If anyone is interested in the IPTC session I can arrange an invitation. It will be held on Tuesday March 17 at The Associated Press headquarters on 450 W. 33rd St. We will be discussing the new Sports-in-JSON format and the new version of SportsML and how it accommodates semantic tech and vocabulary management. A by-product of the latter will be SportsML's comprehensive controlled vocabularies in semantic-friendly formats like skos.

Let me know if you are interested in meeting or attending the session. Hope we can get things going again!

---
Paul Kelly
Director of Software Development, XML Team Solutions
Chair, IPTC Sports Content Working Party

[Dan Brickley]

Thanks for nudging this along! Three things quickly -

- schema.org did add some relatively modest but hopefully useful
pieces of Sports-related vocabulary late last year, based on the
discussions that Jason was leading, see
http://schema.org/docs/releases.html#v1.92
- Also to mention that unfortunately Jason Johnson has moved on from
Microsoft/Bing
- There is a new extension mechanism under discussion for schema.org,
outlined in https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2015Feb/0052.html
which might help such things move faster

I can't make it to the March 17 event but hope some of you can get
together there and report back...

cheers,

Dan

[Vicki Tardif Holland]

I can't make it March 17, but I would love to see this proposal get moving again.

Please let us know what comes of the talks.

- Vicki

Vicki Tardif Holland | Ontologist | vta...@google.com 

 

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[Paul Kelly]

It's too bad we're not meeting on the west coast coz that seems to be where most on this list are stationed :)

I intend to take a close look at the extension proposal and perhaps kick things off for 2 and 3 with some vocabulary lists we've already tallied and which are proven on the ground. Perhaps beginning with a single sport to start?

[Heimo Hänninen]

Hi All

Me either cannot make it. I share your concern over losing momentum.

I am finalizing "sports assets" metadata structures for a large German sports manufacturer, an as soon as ready, I will ask permission to share it for your review.

Let's kick the ball rollin'

Heimo