Using Spatialite on ESRI mobile geodatabase

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David Anderson

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May 25, 2021, 4:30:36 PMMay 25
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Good day,
I was wondering if anyone has any experience in using Spatialite to work with the new ESRI mobile geodatabase format?
ESRI it seems has finally embraced SQLite.  However, it appears they are using the ESRI st_geometry format for the geometry data.  It would have been nice if they used the geopackage format.


Brad Hards

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May 25, 2021, 4:35:39 PMMay 25
to SpatiaLite Users, David Anderson
On Wednesday, 26 May 2021 6:30:36 AM AEST David Anderson wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone has any experience in using Spatialite to work
> with the new ESRI mobile geodatabase format?
None. I'd not even heard of it.

> ESRI it seems has finally embraced SQLite. However, it appears they are
> using the ESRI st_geometry format for the geometry data.
Do you have sample data that shows the geometry blob for each type?

Brad



David Anderson

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May 25, 2021, 4:54:47 PMMay 25
to SpatiaLite Users
On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 2:35:39 PM UTC-6 Brad Hards wrote:
On Wednesday, 26 May 2021 6:30:36 AM AEST David Anderson wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone has any experience in using Spatialite to work
> with the new ESRI mobile geodatabase format?
None. I'd not even heard of it.

It is fairly new.  It was released with ArcGIS pro 2.7 in December.  I just learned about it while doing some wildland fire GISS support.



> ESRI it seems has finally embraced SQLite. However, it appears they are
> using the ESRI st_geometry format for the geometry data.
Do you have sample data that shows the geometry blob for each type?

Brad

I do.  What would be the best way to send a sample file? 

Even Rouault

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May 25, 2021, 4:55:22 PMMay 25
to spatiali...@googlegroups.com, Brad Hards, David Anderson
It's this thing:
https://pro.arcgis.com/en/pro-app/latest/help/data/geodatabases/manage-mobile-gdb/mobile-geodatabases.htm

I had a quick look at that a couple months ago, and it is an encoding
similar (but not identical) to FileGeodatabase geometries. (sorry, I
have not kept written notes)
--
http://www.spatialys.com
My software is free, but my time generally not.

David Anderson

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May 25, 2021, 5:39:32 PMMay 25
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On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 2:55:22 PM UTC-6 EvenR wrote:
It's this thing:
https://pro.arcgis.com/en/pro-app/latest/help/data/geodatabases/manage-mobile-gdb/mobile-geodatabases.htm

I had a quick look at that a couple months ago, and it is an encoding
similar (but not identical) to FileGeodatabase geometries. (sorry, I
have not kept written notes)


My assumption is that it is the same st_geometry encoding that ESRI has been using with Postgres and Oracle and SQLite in the ArcMap days. Proprietary.

a.fu...@lqt.it

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May 26, 2021, 3:47:08 AMMay 26
to spatiali...@googlegroups.com
On Tue, 25 May 2021 14:39:32 -0700 (PDT), David Anderson wrote:
> My assumption is that it is the same st_geometry encoding that ESRI
> has been using with Postgres and Oracle and SQLite in the ArcMap
> days.
> Proprietary.
>

a long story lasting from many years summarized in just few lines:

step #1) SpatiaLite is the first full-fledged Spatial DBMS based
on the top of SQLite, and is almost fully compliant with OGC
SFS and ISO SQL-MM standard specifications.

step #2) when OGC and the US Army Geospatial Center start working
on a new standard for a lightwheight spatial database mainly
intended for mobiles SpatiaLite is adopted as the initial
start reference.

step #3) when the first OGC Geopackage specification has been
finally published any reference to SpatiaLite has been removed
and a brand new binary encoding for Geometries has been introduced.
the main and most authoritative supporter for such a solution
was ESRI, advocating the supposed advantages of the new
binary Geometries for ensuring a robust interoperability
between the implementations of different vendors.

step #4) now we discover that the optimal perfect solution
for a spatial database well tailored for mobiles (at least
accordingly to ESRI) is to deploy their own proprietary
(and undocumented) binary format for Geometries on the
top of SQLite.

If in all this history there is any trace of rational progress
I personally am not able to understand it.

bye Sandro

David Anderson

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May 26, 2021, 7:20:43 PMMay 26
to SpatiaLite Users
I can read the frustration between lines.  I apologize for opening up a sore topic.

Having seen ESRI's business practices over the past several decades, I am very much not surprised by the series of events you describe.  The geopandas folks are probably feeling the same way, their great open source idea having been coopted.

I guess it was too much to hope for a interoperable spatial database format from ESRI.

Stefan Keller

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May 27, 2021, 4:28:34 AMMay 27
to spatiali...@googlegroups.com
Despicable.

This was the reaction of Paul Ramsey and myself to this new format:
"Is this Esri's understanding of open platform and interoperability?
Going one step forth (after hesitating 6y), then one step back,
inflicting the domain with a competing SQLite format, while being
fully aware of GeoPackage extensions?"
https://twitter.com/sfkeller/status/1341836602474151936

There's a try to explain the reason Esri in the thread of the tweet.
It's ultimately saying "Esri doesn't know what Esri does".

I think that the best answer to this is to ignore this new format and
pointing to GeoPackage or Spatialite.

~Stefan

Am Do., 27. Mai 2021 um 01:20 Uhr schrieb David Anderson
<david.and...@gmail.com>:
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David Anderson

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May 27, 2021, 12:39:40 PMMay 27
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Late to the party again. :(
I am glad to hear though that other folks are aware of the problem.

I wish I could ignore it.  However being inside an organization that uses ESRI, I have to figure out how to make it work.

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