Experiences with Update Style in RTF Templates

[Proske@localhost Michael Proske]

I just wanted to write down my frustration with the Update Style feature in EA 9. I have twenty of RTF Templates and there was no the task to change it to a new company style.
First task:
Change the page size and change borders. I tried to change the size in the normal.rtf file but this only works for new documents. Update style does not update the page size and borders. By that i was wondering why page size stil was the same even if i changed it under Program Files\Sparx Systems\EA\DocTemplates\Normal.rtf. I found out that EA always generates a copy of this file under C:\Documents and Settings\<username>\Application Data\Sparx Systems\EA\RTF Templates and only use this one for update style but does not change it when i edit the one under the program directory. Caused a lot of trouble so when you change the styles always delete the one in %APPDATA% it will be created immediately when style info is needed.

Second problem i had was that even i have changed Normal Style to Arial 10 after update style it was changed to Arial 10. This problem was solved after i changed the default paragraph font also and gave hime a concrete Font and size information. {\cs1\f0\fs20\cf0\sa120\sl240 Default Paragraph Font;} and here is the font definition {\fonttbl{\f0 \fswiss Arial;}{\f1 \fswiss \fcharset2 Symbol;}{\f2 \froman Lucida Sans;}}

Third problem is that after update style all font information like Bold or colored text is changed to standard normal style. Also Headings are resetted to normal but they keep their style information. You have to set the style again and also switch on numbering.  Didn't find a solution for that.

Fourth problem i had was that the table size was greater than the page size. I exported the document to an rtf file and changed the table site manually in the rtf file what was eays. Then import the file again and ... nothing changed. I found out that you have to close the rtf template and import only works when is open without any change. Could be a memory problem. So any change to the rtf file should be imported only to a newly open template otherwise it fails.

I still have some bugs in when generating documents with the new templates. One is that text in color will not generated when displaying a tagged value (ValueOf(...)). Also sometimes the style of a figure note ist not centrally but left but this happens only ion MS Mode not in Open Office mode. I made the experience that most errors appear in MS mode.

On the other hand style usage is much bette in EA 9. Where i had before hundered of styles in my word doc because very size change of normal style generated a new style this is gone so i have only the styles that i have defined in my word doc.

Hopes information helps somebody out there wis the same problem.
[original message]

[RoyC]

If you have not already submitted these points as a bug report to Sparx Support, please do so using the Report a Bug link at the foot of the page.  Thanks.
[original message]

[Graham_Moir]

6875776A766E60050 wrote:

Change the page size and change borders. I tried to change the size in the normal.rtf file but this only works for new documents.

I raised this formally as a bug in October 2009.   Shame it still hasn't been fixed.
[original message]

[M@localhost Simon M]

6154474E474B796B494F54260 wrote:

[quote author=6875776A766E60050 link=1311958205/0#0 date=1311958205]Change the page size and change borders. I tried to change the size in the normal.rtf file but this only works for new documents.

I raised this formally as a bug in October 2009. � Shame it still hasn't been fixed.[/quote]
That's because normal.rtf is used for creation of new documents. It is not, and was never intended to be a global settings override.
[original message]

[Graham_Moir]

3D27232120234E0 wrote:

[quote author=6154474E474B796B494F54260 link=1311958205/0#2 date=1312280541][quote author=6875776A766E60050 link=1311958205/0#0 date=1311958205]Change the page size and change borders. I tried to change the size in the normal.rtf file but this only works for new documents.

I raised this formally as a bug in October 2009. � Shame it still hasn't been fixed.[/quote]

That's because normal.rtf is used for creation of new documents. It is not, and was never intended to be a global settings override.[/quote]

Well, that's interesting.  In Oct 2009 the issue was accepted as a bug (by Dermot) with the implication it would be fixed.  In terms of usability, there are quite a few people who would like to be able to modify a style once and apply that style to all existing templates,  AND the EA help at that time said that you should be able to do this :

"Enterprise Architect supports a system template file: Normal.rtf.
This allows users to define and edit default styles and numbering,
etc.  Any styles modified in this file will reflect in newly created
templates. Existing templates can also be updated to reflect changes to
the Normal.rtf, using a feature in the RTF editor: File | Update Styles"

Even the help in EA 9 states this is available functionality

"A related feature in the RTF Style Template Editor is the File | Update Styles menu option, which enables you to update existing templates to reflect any changes to Normal.rtf."

So how can you say it was never intended to provide an override ?   :-[
Finally is Sparx going to change the help to reflect the actual functionality, or is this going to be fixed ?


[original message]

[Proske@localhost Michael Proske]

Interesting information Raymond.  I agree with you like normal.dot in MS Word a template should provide all style information not only the paragraph styles.

I have tried to solve the problem that after update style heading numbering is lost. It could be written in the rtf documentation of the paragraph style but EA does not analyze it correctly.

I have not registeded all as bugs but i will do so.
[original message]

[skiwi]

Michael

you would be doing us all a significant favour if you do register these bugs.
The things you have identified impact negatively on construction of documents,
and on the ability of new comers to use generated documentation.

Absolutely I want the ability to update (overwrite) from normal.rtf the styles in document templates.
I'd also like the page margins to be updated from normal.rtf.

Simon
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn245/copperkiwi/Sparx/Greenshotimageeditor-Documentpatternsnew-EA_2011-08-04_13-09-16.jpg
[original message]

[RoyC]

Setting aside most of the specific issues (which we look forward to seeing described in the bug reports), let me clarify - I hope! - the role of the Normal.rtf file.

As Simon says, Normal.rtf is used for the creation of new templates. It is not, and was never intended to be, a global settings override. You create a new template, which is based on the current Normal.rtf. If you want to change the Normal.rtf styles, you specifically import it into the new template and edit it, then export it back to the %APPDATA% location to apply next time you want to create a new template.

The Update Styles option is a more recent and separate facility, but it enables you to open ONE existing template and update the styles from the Normal.RTF file. If you want to reflect template changes across all of your RTF templates, you have to open each template separately and use the menu option each time. Just make sure that you want to apply all updates to Normal.rtf to all of your existing templates.

If Update Styles does not work as expected in the context explained above, then there might still be a bug in it (we thought all reported bugs had been fixed). Please submit another bug report if that is the case.

I hope that helps - I have tightened the description in the Help to say that Update Styles enables you to update "an existing template" rather than "existing templates"; the latter words were probably giving the wrong impression. But you do have to be inside a specific template before the File | Update option is available.
[original message]

[Graham_Moir]

Thanks for the clarification Roy.  What you describe is in fact how I understood it was supposed to work - namely template by template.  

In terms of a bug,  it looks to me that if you use Update Styles, that  you get any new styles - that is those that didn't exist in the template before - but existing styles in the template are not changed/updated with the definition from normal.rtf


[original message]

[skiwi]

Roy

this may be a feature request, but I'd like to option to update ALL templates from normal.rtf.
We know from long and hard experience that strange and inexplicable things happen if styles get out of sync across document model templates.
We want to maintain the same model document templates and normal.rtf across a number of users and models, anything Sparx can do to make this easier would be of value to us.

Also, you have muddied the waters by mentioning the APPDATA normal.rtf.

Its bad enough normal.rtf being installed into the "Program Files" directory, but now I'm learning a copy is kept elsewhere?
Did I miss this in the documentation? Is this copy read every time EA opens, or what?

It seems to me there is not much clarity (as evidenced from the questions above), on how normal.rtf actually affects documents.

Perhaps <feature request on> there should be an option for normal.rtf to autoupdate (cf Word).

chao

Simon
[original message]

[RoyC]

EA Versions 7.5 and later use Windows 7. Windows 7, with dash and aplomb, locks the Program Files directory and makes it read only. So we stopped installing the Normal.rtf file into the Program Files directory and stored it as an external file in  %APPDATA%\Sparx Systems\EA\RTF Templates.

The first line of the topic that describes Normal.rtf, the RTF Templates topic, states:

"In versions of Enterprise Architect later than 7.1, a Normal.rtf template is provided as a system template, as an external file stored in:
       %APPDATA%\Sparx Systems\EA\RTF Templates"

I believe that this was in the Release Notes for version 7.5 too.

Please do submit your feature request.  Also, I can't comment on Graham's report that Update Styles does not update existing styles that have been changed; a casual query resulted in a couple of puzzled frowns, so resubmit the bug report and Support should either resolve the issue or explain why it isn't an issue.
[original message]

[Proske@localhost Michael Proske]

That is the behaviour but if no normal.rtf is located in the program files directory ea is giving an error message that normal.rtf is not available. If you only install it under APPDATA then please remove it under the prgram file directory. Otherwise it copies the first time the normal.rtf under the APPDATA path
[original message]

[skiwi]

Bump!

Any joy with bug reports?
[original message]

[Graham_Moir]

I just re-submitted a bug report regarding "Update styles" failing to update existing styles in a template - reference 11101317 has been provided. � �As I think I mentioned, I originally submitted this formally in October 2009.
[original message]

[Proske@localhost Michael Proske]

I have asked for the status of my bug report but it is still not scheduled. We have to wait.
[original message]

[skiwi]

My frustration level (actually the inability to actually update styles in 930) has grown to the point where I have reported the following (along with pix, model and normal files) to EA


I have observed a number of issues while using the File Update Styles (http://www.sparxsystems.com/enterprise_architect_user_guide/9.2/reporting/fileandprintoptions.html#upstyle) function in the RTF editor to update Document Templates in the Model (ie our defined templates).
EA version 930

Note that this is using W7 32 bit and the normal.rtf (http://www.sparxsystems.com/enterprise_architect_user_guide/9.2/reporting/the_normal_rtf_style_template.html) document is in the directory
C:\Users\username\AppData\Roaming\Sparx Systems\EA\RTF Templates
(I note EA doc shows this junction (http://www.svrops.com/svrops/articles/jpoints.htm) as %APPDATA%\Sparx Systems\EA\RTF Templates)


1) When I update the styles the editor closes without prompting me to save

2) It would be preferable if the style file location is shown (so we can see what directory we are loading it from)
and the option to browsed to another file was available.

3) Updates to heading styles to not carry font colour settings across
4) Updates to styles do not carry font size across (eg Normal, Body Text)

5) When updating one specific template the style �Heading 5 Char� is shown.
This is one of a number of similar �Char� styles shown in the drop down box
Yet when I try to Edit Styles and delete them, they are not shown, how do I delete them?

6) It would be valuable if EA provided a means of updating a selection, or all model document templates at one time.
It is a hugely manual process to update a large number of templates.


Overall it appears that the Updates Styles functionality is not working in 930.
[original message]

[Graham_Moir]

Totally agree this needs sorting out, and a real disappointment that 9.3 does nothing about it. �

I also have an additional similar issue with list numbering/overrides in build 922 - haven't tried this in 930. � I set one up to provide consistent numbering through a master/model document set up and then found that it didn't work.

I took the following approach:
- created a new template
- imported normal.rtf from the %appdata% location
- created the list override and all the heading numbering down to level 9
- set up the heading 1 to 9 styles to use the numbering
- tested all the styles within this new template, seemed to work OK
- exported normal.rtf to a neutral location, deleted the existing normal.rtf and placed in the %appdata% location
- threw away this template
- started again, created a new template not copying from any existing template
- immediately did an "updates styles". �The list override was not included in the heading definitions � :(


[original message]

[Proske@localhost Michael Proske]

I made a bug report of the heading topic. Reply is that this feature is not planned. The behaviour you see with headings is expected by Sparx and not a bug. So just forgot Update Styles functionality it will not work as expected.
[original message]

[skiwi]

One of the issues that compounds the update styles problem is that the visibility of the style settings in the RTF editor is remarkably opaque.

That is to say that once the styles have been updated it is remarkably hard to determine what the style setting are.
(Printing and examining in Word can give the clearest picture).

Further, not all the settings that are loaded are editable, even though some of them are visible (eg setting a line height to exactly 8pt).

My feature request is for a properties box for styles within the RTF editor, which settings can be viewed and changed.
[original message]

[skiwi]

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn245/copperkiwi/Sparx/2012-03-2309-14-35_EA.png
Finally, and perhaps the most significant - I welcome your feedback on this ...

When the styles are updated in the linked document or template the document's appearance does not change.
Actually what has happened is that the definition of the styles has been updated (more or less).

What is needed IMHO is an option to "reapply" the styles in the document.
This should reapply all style formatting in the document, thus all changes would become visible.

As for non style formatting (shown under the heading "Font" in Word's Reveal Formatting) I'd don't care either way whether they are preserved or not.

---

See also
Experiences with Update Style in RTF Templates (http://www.sparxsystems.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1311958205)
Update Styles in RTF template seems incomplete (http://www.sparxsystems.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1327930741/0#0)


http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn245/copperkiwi/Sparx/2012-03-2811-01-29_MsoDockRight.png

[original message]

[skiwi]

I'm still struggling with multi-level list numbering in heading in generated rtf documents. This sort of nonsense ...
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn245/copperkiwi/Sparx/2012-04-1108-47-55_Personalnamebestpractices.png

In trying to understand what is going on, and how to fix it in normal.rtf, my document templates, and in the generated document, I've found the following references that you too may find useful.

How to create numbered headings or outline numbering in Word 2007 and Word 2010 (http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/numbering20072010.html)
How to modify styles in Microsoft Word (http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/styles/modifyastyle.html)
and a word of caution
How to number chapters, appendixes, and pages in documents that contain both chapter and appendix headings in Word (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/290953)

Just remember folks, don't try this at home.

In summary it seems to me:
1) A named list style is required to define the numbering, and this needs to be linked to the heading styles. viz
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn245/copperkiwi/Sparx/2012-04-1108-39-24_normalv4.png
2) The RTF editor needs to support named list styles, and the linking of them to heading styles.
[original message]

[Graham_Moir]

Thanks for the links related to Word, but doesn't it add an extra layer of complexity/confusion by looking to address this in Ms Office rather than in the rtf generation process ?  

In my experience, the numbering requires the same list override in all templates in the master/model documents.  Setting up an override in a new template that has the same attributes as one used elsewhere won't work, and adding it to normal.rtf doesn't seem to help either, so the only option appears to be to copy an existing template that has the list override already defined - that way you know you're using the same one.
[original message]

[skiwi]

I'm not looking to address this in Word per se, however the reference implementation for RTF (v1.9.1 (http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=10725)) would have to be Word.
In addition I expect that
- normal.rtf is created/maintained using Word
- RTF generated documents are opened and printed using Word
- sometimes to get the formatting required document templates are exported, updated, and imported due to shortcomings in the internal editor
Therefore numbering has to work in Word.
It doesn't.
EA need to generate RTF that works in Word, hence my suggestions.

The references I provided are those that enabled be to delve deep enough to fix the broken definition of the styles generated by EA in order to get the numbering to work in my documents.

I'm not quite sure what you are referring to by "copying an existing template.
If you mean each time you create a new document template I agree that approach is necessary, Word does not like different version of styles in a document (and this happens as EA generates model document as far as I can see [elsewhere it has been suggested that EA only generate the styles once]).

I am interested in how I can update my styles in (all) existing document templates, and recreating them from scratch by copying an existing template isn't reasonable or really feasible,
and most importantly have this NOT break the heading numbering.

---

See also
RTF Template: after changes fields not substituted (http://www.sparxsystems.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1248817992/0#0)
RTF Documentation issues (http://www.sparxsystems.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1263261721/0#0)
[original message]

[Proske@localhost Michael Proske]

Please do not create normal.rtf with word. The RTF created by word has much more information EA can understand. Normal.rtf for EA is a quite simple file with only basic style information.
[original message]

[skiwi]

736E6C716D757B1E0 wrote:

Please do not create normal.rtf with word. The RTF created by word has much more information EA can understand. Normal.rtf for EA is a quite simple file with only basic style information.

Thanks, but where does it say (http://www.sparxsystems.com/enterprise_architect_user_guide/9.3/reporting/the_normal_rtf_style_template.html) this in the documentation?

What "basic style information" does EA understand?
[original message]

[skiwi]

Sparx got back to me on the numbering issue.


Quote:

The issue is that you have not chosen two separate lists for level 1 and 2 headings. This is present through out the user defined templates. One example on (template)... GENERIC-Text Select Element.Name and form its context menu go to Paragraph->List Numbering Notice the list chosen is "List Override #001" If you select PKG.Name and from its context menu go to Paragraph->List Numbering Notice the list chosen is "List: list670593188 Override #002" Both of heading lvl 1 & 2 should belong to a common list if you need the numbering based on those levels. http://www.sparxsystems.com/enterprise_architect_user_guide/9.3/reporting/user_defined_list_numbering.html

While I have yet to check this out in detail, especially my normal.rtf,
I should note that all styles were loaded/updated from normal.rtf, so I'd expect them to be consistent, and I know that numbering in the normal.rtf works correctly.
[original message]

[skiwi]

Of all the things v10 could have fixed this is the one I miss the most.

Bah humbug.
[original message]

[Graham_Moir]

Totally agree.  The frustration and time wasting associated with this is ENORMOUS.
[original message]

[Mitchell@localhost Ian Mitchell]

If it's a detailed but stress-free integration between Word and EA you're looking for, have a look at eaDocX. I got so frustrated with spending ages producing average-looking documents using the RTF generator that I quit my job to write it. It'll pay for itself inside of a month.
[original message]

[skiwi]

I asked support (for EA 10)

I have a lot of problems with heading (multilevel list) numbering.
I have created an entirely new normal.rtf and am using the FILE | UPDATE STYLES menu to update the styles in all my document templates (in which we have made a considerable investment), but after I do this heading numbering is as bad as ever.
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn245/copperkiwi/Sparx/2013-07-0915_53_05-_zpse24e4599.png
Steps to Reproduce:  
I decided to investigate what List override there were in the various document templates I have with a view to removing most of them.
In the attached image you can  see the document template has many many list overrides - no wonder I don't know what I am getting.
How do I delete all the old (leftover) document list overrides?

---

Here is the answer
With the List Overrides as these can be referenced within the document their removal can seriously alter the document structure, this is why both Word and the RTF editor do not offer options to remove these.

With the Update Styles - this does not support updating of the List Numbering.

There is a method to use a List Number across multiple templates in a Virtual Document by setting the List Override in the Normal.rtf (See the text below).
We are looking at updating the Normal.RTF to set the List override for MasterList as a default. When this is available there will be a help page reference for this.

_____List numbering ________
With numbering across multiple documents what is critical is to create a Numbering List in the Normal.Rtf template and ensure that all your templates are then copies of this file to ensure the numbering Identifier is the same for List Numbers you create in the multiple templates forming a Virtual Document.
 
To use List numbering across multiple documents you need to add a List Override and then add a List Level to the Normal.rtf template - for details on updating the Normal.rtf see:
http://www.sparxsystems.com/enterprise_architect_user_guide/9.3/reporting/the_normal_rtf_style_template.html
 
The Native Normal.rtf does include "MasterList" List numbering, but this needs to be set as a List Override.
With the Normal.rtf in the template editor
- Select from the Context menu:
 Edit | List Overrides | Create List Override
- From the List Overrides Properties dialog - select "MasterList" and click on OK.
  Nb: the List Item "MasterList" can be found when creating a new template from the standard Normal.rtf.
 
Now set the Override (and make any changes to the formatting) using:
- Edit | List and Overrides | Edit List Override > Level Selection | (x) List Overrides
- Select List: Masterlist - Override #1 from this drop-down.
- Click on OK.
 
- In the Editor create some text (to be removed later).
- Highlight this text
- Select from the context menu: Paragraph | List Numbering (opens a dialog)
- Select List: Masterlist - Override #1
- Click on OK.
 
Then you should be able to set the paragraph numbering using:
- Paragraph | Numbering
- Paragraph | List Numbering - set the list to  List: Masterlist - Override #1
 
Remove the text in your template and save the Normal.rtf  as described in the above help page (to  %APPDATA%\Sparx Systems\EA\RTF Templates).
 
Now you can now create multiple new templates, but the using "Copy Template:" option of "None" to start with the updated Normal.rtf template.
 
The new templates should have under - Paragraph | List Numbering - the List: Masterlist - Override #1

[original message]

[qwerty]

There's a recent thread where another issue is reported which I filed as bug some 2 years ago. Why hasn't this been fixed? Guess.

q.
[original message]

[qwerty]

My impression is that they wear some kind of "Sparx Glass" letting them see only what they think is important. In seldom cases your issues come into focus. But mainly it enlarges the view to new features. I stopped reporting bugs since it takes effort and does not achieve anything.

q.
[original message]

[Graham_Moir]

Yes, I know qwerty, there are lots of bugs that have been lying around for quite some time, I have some logged myself from years ago and have no idea what the status of them is.  

I suppose building new functionality seems always to take priority as opposed to fixing problems.  

Perhaps Sparx needs a "user pain indicator" to help them with prioritization of bugs so that we at least get some of the bigger issues fixed.  This is where I was coming from,  I would suggest that this numbering thing is an issue everyone comes up against if they're using anything other than very simple rtf reporting, and it registers very very high on the user pain index.    
[original message]

[Graham_Moir]

Yes, thanks,  but why can't Sparx actually fix this properly and make the process much more usable.  As I mentioned in an earlier message, the frustration and TIMEWASTING associated with this is enormous.
[original message]