FT4 operations

[Mike Brown]

Alan

Thanks for the response the other day. Hope you're halfway proficient in FT8/4 by now!

I suspect you're way ahead of me by now but I've been thinking about ways FT4 might be used. It was designed for contesting of course (witness all the American 'FD' stations this weekend) but quite a few amateurs seem to be using it on a day-to-day basis, which is how I think a SparkSDR user is most likely to use it.

Given how fast FT4 is, maybe something like the wsjt-x  'Best S&P' button, which autostarts a QSO would be a good idea. Possibly with options for prioritisation? eg new DXCC, new call on band/mode or greatest distance?? It all depends on whether you're going to interrogate the wsjt-x log of course. The button might be quite a useful add-on for FT8 as well. In either case it would be great if the user could set a minimum C/N before a QSO is attempted. (I quite often get sniffs of signals from the far east that are there one moment and gone the next.)

Best 73

Mike

[ahop...@googlemail.com]

Hi Mike,

I've been wondering along similar lines, I'm trying not to look at how WSJTX does things but am trying to stick to the guidelines on automation in the QEX article. I think it really comes down to as long as you have to click at least one button per qso that is ok. I have added auto selection of responses from your CQ by first,last,nearest, furthest and will add high and low snr. I guess the Best S&P does similar for incoming CQs which should be easy to add.

To go much further I need to finally tackle logging,  the plan at the moment:-

1. Build a simple internal log with an embedded database and ADIF exports or live ADIF file updates.

2. Add log events to the websocket interface.

3. Explore the WSJTX udp format and maybe emulate it.

4. Explore interfaces to other logging programs (preferably avoiding virtual serial cables:) )

I don't believe the WSJT-X log records anything that happens from a Spark decode although I have never checked, It certainly will know nothing from a level 0 decode.

Obviously none of this will get in the way of people that want to use WSJT-X or similar with the digiu mode.
73 Alan M0NNB

[ahop...@googlemail.com]

Hi beta testers

this https://www.sparksdr.com/download/sparksdr2_0_7_7_win64.zip has a first attempt at auto sequencing and auto replying to answers to your cq.

The macro templates are editable in the general settings and there is a clock.

The auto replies retry each message up to 3 times if the expected answer is not received and the cq currently times out after 16 calls.

The cancel button will stop any tx and reset the sequence.

73 Alan M0NNB

[Thomas Beiderwieden]

Hi Alan,

thanks a lot. FT8 works like charm, calling CQ or answering. FT4 does not work (sorry, again me). However this time, the HL2 refuses to use any output power, see attached. When changing between FT8 and FT4 on the same radio I have seen, that the options Simplex, Auto Seq, Auto Reply and TX even are always switched back to their default values. Is that intended?

I personally think,  that the  3x repetition is to less, especially when you are running with only 5w or less. Currently, it looks like, that if you, after the timeout, hit the resp. button again, it sequence is only sent once. Would it be an option to start the sequence at point again, with whatever the timeout value may be?

Vy 73 de Thomas, DL3EL

[Mike Brown]

Hi Alan

The Best S&P option could only work if you have 'worked before' functionality or it would keep trying to start QSOs with the same station.

WSJT-X doesn't log SparkSDR QSOs, at least on my setup. I have it set to 'Prompt me to log QSO' and of course I don't get a prompt. I don't believe you get a log in WSJT-X if you don't choose that option. 

For some reason WSJT-X seems to keep two logs, wsjtx.log which is CSV and wsjtx_log.adi in ADI format. Presumably CSV is quicker to parse for worked B4 status.

What WSJT-X does do is put all decodes and TXn's in ALL.TXT. I guess it might be possible to pick QSO details out but it would be messy, particularly where there are repeats or other stations calling during the QSO.

73

Mike

G4RAA

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[ahop...@googlemail.com]

Hi Thomas,

I'll have a play with FT4, quite possible I broke it again, these releases are generally at a point when I know I have not got any free time for a bit  rather than I've tested everything in every possible mode.  The 3x was just a starting point and am open to suggestions or for making it setable. 

I'll ponder the restart option, clicking the appropriate macro ought to do it but I've not tested.

Changing mode is another issue on the list, my plan is to start saving a set of defaults for each mode which will be settings for that mode  for the last closed receiver on that mode or some arbitrary selection when you close the program, for now profiles are the way to go.  

73 Alan M0NNB

[ahop...@googlemail.com]

Hi Mike,

yep logging is definitely the next step.  Spark only uses the jt9.exe from wsjtx which purely decodes and I don't believe has much to do with logging.  All the info is already in Spark it just needs using. Spark is in a similar position to WSJT-X in needing its own log for direct/fast  'worked before' type info but my plan is to make it a simple but usable log for all modes. I've just started downloading every logging program I can find to see what can already connect and what is the simplest way to interface, I think this has to be as well as an internal one for FT8 etc.

73 Alan M0NNB

[ahop...@googlemail.com]

Hi beta testers

https://www.sparksdr.com/download/sparksdr2_0_7_8_win64.zip should fix FT4.

73 Alan M0NNB

[Thomas Beiderwieden]

Hi Alan,

thanks for your effort. Unfortunately, there are still some things. The issues are not stable reproducable, meaning, after a fresh start of SparkSDR it works or it doesn't. I did not find any connection which could be the reason. 

What happens? In the case it goes wrong, you start SparkSDR, choose the FT4 receiver and call CQ. First transmission ok, the next are without power. If, in this case, you switch to another receiver, (only tested on the same band) where FT8 is configured, it may work or it may show the same "no power error" from the first transmission.

Interesting is, that if you shut down SparkSDR during this error condition completely and restart it, the same may happen or it may work perfectly. I have seen both.

Attached are a couple of screenshots showing the FT4 behaviour. 02-04 is ok, 06-08 is not ok.

vy 73 de Thomas, DL3EL

[ahop...@googlemail.com]

Hi Thomas,

thanks for that, I suspect some subtle timing issue between the gui and the backend.

73 Alan M0NNB

[Anthony N1IG]

Alan & Thomas,

I noticed something similar working FT8 from WSJTX and in the DIGIU setting.  What would happen is that in TX it would initially show 5+watts, and then momentarily drop to 0 watts and a high SWR  reading before returning to normal TX & SWR.  It would happen every 5-6 seconds for about a second in duration.

After banging my head against the wall over this, I decided to try rolling up the "volume" slider slightly when the radio was in TX, and the problem stopped.  Now it stays at 5w and minimal swr with no more fluctuations.

Not sure why that would have an effect, but it may be something DL3EL should try and see if it corrects his issue.

Anthony - N1IG

[Ronald Meier]

I see the same issue in FT8. When I set volume at zero I have approx 6watt power. When I increase volume the power is reduced to approx 2~3 watt during TX. SWR stays at the same level.

73 Ronald PH7R

Op woensdag 30 juni 2021 om 20:54:31 UTC+2 schreef Anthony N1IG:

[Thomas Beiderwieden]

Just done some tests. When I use 2.0.7-8 on my PC with SparkSDR FT8 I cannot reproduce the power issue from Ronald. Changing the volume has no effect on the output power. When I use WSJT-X I see a constant change of the power level, everything between 1 and 6 watts, changes a couple of times per second. SWR changes slightly. However, same setup as FT8, just another virtual radio. 

But there is one thing to mention, due to local reasons I can only test Raspberry versions in a setup, where the computer is on the same network switch as the HL2. All tests with windows are with some Wifi network between the PC and the HL2. So I am not sure, if there is any influence.

vy 73 de Thomas, DL3EL

[ahop...@googlemail.com]

Hi All,

which volume are we talking about here, I can see no way the spark one affects power output unless something bad is happening with virtual audio cables and there is some way the output gets back into the input, someone did mention using different vacs for input and output is wise.

73 Alan M0NNB

[ahop...@googlemail.com]

Hi All,

https://www.sparksdr.com/download/sparksdr2_0_7_9_win64.zip might fix the zero power ft4 txs, I made a few tweaks and have not seen it happen in an hour or so of tx. I think there is a remaining issue where I need to prioritise decodes for the receiver in the main  display when multiple receivers are in use.

73 Alan M0NNB

[Thomas Beiderwieden]

Hi Alan,

quick test, looks good so far. Thanks. Looking forward to a Raspberry build for 24/7 ops.

vy 73 de Thomas, DL3EL

[Anthony N1IG]

on mine it is the volume slider immediately to the right of the speaker icon in SparkSDR.  I only needed to nudge it up a little bit, for the fluctuating TX/SWR to go away.

Anthony - N1IG

[ahop...@googlemail.com]

Hi Anthony and Ronald,

this is all very strange, the volume control has absolutely nothing to do with the signal sent to the radio, it purely controls the audio level sent to WSJT-X over vac so I can only think that vac or wsjt-x are doing something odd. Are you using different vac connections for in and out? A screen shot might give a clue.

Are you hearing any relay clicks when it goes wrong and are you getting ep6 errors?

73 Alan M0NNB

[ahop...@googlemail.com]

Hi Thomas and beta testers,

here are builds for all platforms it is still very much a test version.  The win64 version also has the sdrplay beta enabled.

It may report ever so slightly more spots as I found an error in my spot parser for messages like CQ UK .....

https://www.sparksdr.com/download/sparksdr2_0_7_9_win64.zip

https://www.sparksdr.com/download/sparksdr2_0_7_9_win32.zip

https://www.sparksdr.com/download/SparkSDR.2.0.7-9.linux-x64.deb

https://www.sparksdr.com/download/SparkSDR.2.0.7-9.linux-x64.rpm

https://www.sparksdr.com/download/SparkSDR.2.0.7-9.linux-arm.deb

https://www.sparksdr.com/download/sparksdr2_0_7_9_osx.app.tar.gz

73 Alan M0NNB

[Anthony N1IG]

yes, I was hearing relay clicks but the ep6 did not increase.

I just tried to recreate the issue by rolling the volume slider down during TX, but of course it isn't happening now.  If. it happens again, I will try to get some screen video of it.

I am using VB-Audio for the VAC, and I think it uses two different connections.

One other thing that I have noticed, is a difference in TX output during TUNE when using SparkSDR vs WSJTX thru Spark.  Not sure why it would be different.

Anthony - N1IG

[Thomas Beiderwieden]

Hi Alan,

works on Raspberry 4. I have seen situations in which tx starts 3 - 5 secs after the slots beginning. Mostly in a setup with a couple of virtual radios. Is that a timing issue or local overload (cpu load is around 60%).

Is it intended that a reply to a CQ is only repeated 3 times as well?

vy 73 de Thomas, DL3EL

[ahop...@googlemail.com]

Hi Thomas,

Good to know,

yep I need to give priority to the foreground receiver when you have many.  The reply timeout is set to 3, it was just a first guess as to what to use so I'm very open to suggestions, I guess the cancel button allows it to be much longer, it is partly there as I was being cautious about semi automatic tx during testing :)

73 Alan M0NNB

[Thomas Beiderwieden]

Hi Alan,

the foreground receiver is definitely more important :-)

For the reply timeout. WSJT-X uses a watchdog timer, decreasing minutes. Could be same or just a number, let's say between 1 and 20, default 10 which applies for all K1JT-modes?

vy 73 de Thomas, DL3EL

[Josh Logan]

No virtual com ports needed.

JTAlert and gridtracker are the tools I use for alerts, and logging to dxkeeper through JTAlert.   The full path is: WSJT -> JTAlert -> dxkeeper -> tsql -> LOTW

https://hamapps.com/

https://gridtracker.org/

http://www.dxlabsuite.com/dxkeeper/

JTDX also works with the above logging and alerting programs, I wonder if the multicast protocol is documented in a way you can use.  

I took a look and It's mostly documentation in NetworkMessage.hpp, but there are a few definitions at the bottom.  JTAlert is also closed source and you may be able to work with that developer for creating a working solution while staying away from WSJT code.

WSJT-X -> JTAlert uses multicast to talk back and forth, gridtracker can also watch the multicast feed.  JTAlert will mark the received signals in real time, as an example: worked before - B4, new country, new state, new grid, new prefix, etc.  It will then highlight the calls accordingly.

If you can leverage something like JTAlert to process the stations you may not need to actually do logging and reporting in SparkSDR.

73, Josh

KD7HGL

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[Josh Logan]

This version is not working with WSJT-X TX audio via VB-Audio or VoiceMeeter VM-Audio.

PTT trigures, but the TX power is 0.

Moving back to sparksdr2_0_7_6_win64 fixes the problem.

73, Josh

KD7HGL

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[ahop...@googlemail.com]

Hi Josh,

sorry not near my radio to test at the moment but are you sure? I ask because the mods I've made really do not touch anything other than the JT/FT modes, the digiu mode and whole radio and audio path has not changed.  What mode are you using? What is the drive set to? However strange things do happen and I may have done something silly :) 

73 Alan M0NNB

[ahop...@googlemail.com]

Hi Josh,

just done some testing here and it works for me, I have discovered that tx near the band edges has very reduced power due to an issue with the digital bandpass filter so I wonder if that is happening to you.

73 Alan M0NNB

On Thursday, July 1, 2021 at 9:55:45 PM UTC+1 kd7...@gmail.com wrote:

[Josh Logan]

I'm trying the new sparksdr2_0_8_4_win64.zip and I'm seeing the same behavior.

Even SPprk turning on tune does not produce any output power:

sparksdr2_0_7_6 does this (also tested on 20m):

73, KD7HGL
Josh

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[ahop...@googlemail.com]

Hi Josh,

I don't know what is happening with 2.0.7.6 but this https://www.sparksdr.com/download/sparksdr2_0_8_5_win64.zip should fix tx on 2.0.8.4.

73 Alan M0NNB

[Josh Logan]

That release fixed the issue.  Thanks!

I was trying to say 2.0.7.6 worked correctly.

73, KD7HGL
Josh

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