glue for laminating sheet balsa?

[Robert Redmon]

I am beginning my first Eureka (full) kit (not impressed by the
engineering or the quality of the wood) and wonder what you guys have
found to be the best glue to do all the myriad lamination tasks (tips,
blocks, etc.) that will need to be sanded to shape without leaving a
seam or ridge of glue? The balsa provided provides enough challenges
(varies widely in density) without dealing with glue seams. (examples: 6
layers of 1/4" to get the 1/1/2" vertical fin LE.....4 layers to get 1"
tips.....3 layers of 3/16 to make the 3/8" sub fin!!!!!) grrrrr

Bob

[Patternpilot One]

Maybe replace that wood with contest grade wood in the final dims.

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[George Truett]

When I join wing skins or anything where I don't want a hard ridge, I use old style model cement.  Ambroid is gone again, my current favorite is Sig-ment.  The newer versions of Titebond also sand pretty well.  It sounds like you already found CA will leave a joint much harder than the wood.

---

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Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2016 8:36 PM

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Subject: [SPA] glue for laminating sheet balsa?

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[Robert Redmon]

That was my first reaction.....but I really hate to throw away money, so before I dip into my stash or order new block, I intend to try to resolve this. Thanks, Scott.

Bob

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Bob

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[Steve Ehlers]

Bob ,

 I use Tite Bond for all wing skins (and they are soft light wood) and any laminations also. Of course you use water to clean up excess that squeezes out and will sand with out Any issues. The Only glue I can recommend even though others have had good results with other kinds and types. Like you say Stay away from CA !

Steve

[Steve Ehlers]

Bob , I forgot that you also should compress the stacked wood with clamps or weight. You might even thin the glue slightly with water also. The Gorilla glue maybe a great alternative ,just have never worked with it ,Yet .... But you have to Squeegee well and remove the squeezed out glue also ....

Steve

[Jim Johns]

Bob,

I'm not a fan of using multiple pieces to form a thicker part either. This seems to be a normal practice for laser cut kits though.

Wing sheeting - I don't edge glue any more. I just true the edges, tape together with blue painters tape and apply with Gorilla Glue. It expands to fill any voids but no hard glue line if you use it VERY SPARINGLY.

You might contact Bernie Olson FOR IDEAS. He's built several Eureka kits.

Jim

On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at 7:49 PM Robert Redmon <k5sm...@gmail.com> wrote:

That was my first reaction.....but I really hate to throw away money, so before I dip into my stash or order new block, I intend to try to resolve this. Thanks, Scott.

Bob

On Sunday, November 13, 2016, Patternpilot One <patter...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Maybe replace that wood with contest grade wood in the final dims.

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Robert Redmon <k5sm...@gmail.com>
Date: 11/13/16 8:36 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: SPAme...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [SPA] glue for laminating sheet balsa?

I am beginning my first Eureka (full) kit (not impressed by the
engineering or the quality of the wood) and wonder what you guys have
found to be the best glue to do all the myriad lamination tasks (tips,
blocks, etc.) that will need to be sanded to shape without leaving a
seam or ridge of glue? The balsa provided provides enough challenges
(varies widely in density) without dealing with glue seams. (examples: 6
layers of 1/4" to get the 1/1/2" vertical fin LE.....4 layers to get 1"
tips.....3 layers of 3/16 to make the 3/8" sub fin!!!!!) grrrrr

Bob

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Bob

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[Phil]

Bob,

Dennis Hunt always used white carpenter's glue, as did I when I worked with him in his factory.  As others have suggested about other glues, wipe off the excess that squeezes out from between the sheets.  There are several brands of carpenter's glue, and TiteBond may be one of them, just not familiar with it.  I'd stay away from Elmer's white glue, it isn't the same ting.  I believe Elmer,s makes a carpenter's glue, though.  Also, I am assuming you are NOT talking about skinning foam core wings.  That is a very different process.

 Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus
 AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member
 SPA L-18, Board Member
 Oliver Springs, TN  (865) 435-1476v  (865) 604-0541c

---

[Keith Watson]

Good ideas all around. If you try Titebond, thin it with water and make a zigzag pattern on the wood, then use a credit card as a scraper to leave a thin layer almost like a coat of paint. Weight it down overnight.

[Duane Wilson]

"Sigment" is perfect for balsa wing skins. It sands w/o any evidence of a ridge.

Duane 

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[Robert Redmon]

Thanks to all. I am going to experiment with gorilla glue tomorrow. I recently had really good luck with it sheeting a wing and stab. Sanded pretty well; however, I am hoping someone has a better solution than my old standby, thinned cellulose glue (ambroid, sigment, duco, etc.). I have yet to find any cement that will feather gracefully when sanding a taper.

Bob

[Phil]

Here's another little trick I figured out many years ago.  Carpenter's glue has a wonderful trait when dried and heated.  Spread the glue on both sheets to be laminated, make sure it is very smooth, but not scraped off as if you were sheeting foam cores, and let it dry.  Once dry, align the two pieces (I do this when laminating ply stiffeners to balsas fuse sides) and use an iron (I prefer a cheap household iron due to more heat area) and iron the two pieces together.  The glue polymerizes and fuses, so the pieces are thoroughly fused together and perfectly aligned (if you did it right!) and there is no squeeze-out to worry about.  I have a laminated Daddy Rabbit fuse that is broken ahead of the wing saddle, and it broke as if it were one piece of wood.  This won't do for thick laminated "built-up" blocks -- too thick.  BTW, I won't buy a Eurick full kit if all you get are laminated wing tips, etc.  I prefer to use contest-grade balsa blocks to carve and hollow.

I will add this:  The Panzer D-20 has thick, rounded wing tips.  When I was working with Dennis, I laminated the tips out of 3 pieces of 3/8" balsa.  The middle piece was cut in a "C" shape to partially hollow the tips.  This works better than a block, in this case, since it is very difficult to hollow a semicircular tip that is 1 1/8" thick.

 Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus
 AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member
 SPA L-18, Board Member
 Oliver Springs, TN  (865) 435-1476v  (865) 604-0541c

---

Thanks to all. I am going to experiment with gorilla glue tomorrow. I recently had really good luck with it sheeting a wing and stab. Sanded pretty well; however, I am hoping someone has a better solution than my old standby, thinned cellulose glue (ambroid, sigment, duco, etc.). I have yet to find any cement that will feather gracefully when sanding a taper.

Bob

On Sunday, November 13, 2016, Steve Ehlers <stevene...@gmail.com> wrote:

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Bob

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[Vic Koenig]

 Included is a photo of the Ambroid replacement I found at my LHS. It is made by Testors and comes in three colors, you only want the green tube as it's for wood. I like it to join wing sheets as it sands just like Ambroid.
 I also tried Phil's method of ironing carpenters glue but had a delamination and never tried it again.   Vic

 

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[Robert Redmon]

Thanks, Phil. Actually, I used the "ironing on" technique on several occasions when sheeting a built up wing. I worked very well, but I never had the need to sand any of the joints.

I agree with you regarding using lamination to built up blocks. Poor engineering. I loved the kits Bridi and Southern RC made back in the 70s. All the block parts, tapered stock, triangle stock, formers, and ribs were either band sawn or machined using templates and disk/drum sanders using very high quality wood. I love the self jigging nature of well designed laser cut kits, but the Eureka kits are made using a 1/16" (or so) rotary cutter and CNC. This is my first kit cut like this, and I am not impressed. Tolerances are MUCH sloppier than laser cutting.

Don uses Bud Nosen "Select" balsa, but I could see not consistency in the "selection." Some is very light and clear...nice light (contest) stock, but some is very hard and heavy. Often the laminated parts combine these as his setup requires pieces from several different sheets to be laminated. Wing tips are tapered (airfoil shape to match the tip), with each (four per tip) slightly smaller than the rest to be laminated and then sanded to shape. In this case very soft balsa was supplied...good for weight but bad to sand out after being laminated. I see NO WAY to avoid three glue lines unless I saturate the wood with some kind of sealer. I will locate some block in my "junk" balsa box and pitch those. I may end up doing that with all the laminated parts, but every time I have to do that, I resent having spent good money for the kit....the point of which is to avoid the nuisance of sourcing all the wood now that I have to drive 2 hours to the nearest hobby shop (DFW) and still be confronted with a very limited selection of wood.

Anyway, guys, please close this thread. It seems we have exhausted the collective wisdom of the group.

Bob

[Patternpilot One]

Bib,

You need to tr th one of my laser cut kits.

S.

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Robert Redmon <k5sm...@gmail.com>
Date: 11/14/16 12:25 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: SPAme...@googlegroups.com

[Robert Redmon]

Oh, my! That was the  very first model airplane glue I ever used! I used Testors cement back in the '50s when I was but a wee lad. Lately I find it a bit more "rubbery" than I remember it being back then....and it does not sand well. They must be using more banana oil. (There is a reference only the really old timers will related to.)

Bob

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[Robert Redmon]

I did. Bootlegger...couple years ago. It was well engineered and turned out really nice.

Bob

[Patternpilot One]

Bob, 

Sorry for the typo on the name.

The new bootlegger kit is even better.

[Phil]

Ah, yes, banana oil.  To be avoided if at all possible.  Goes with some thick plasticy dopes and similar glue!!

 Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus
 AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member
 SPA L-18, Board Member
 Oliver Springs, TN  (865) 435-1476v  (865) 604-0541c

---

Oh, my! That was the  very first model airplane glue I ever used! I used Testors cement back in the '50s when I was but a wee lad. Lately I find it a bit more "rubbery" than I remember it being back then....and it does not sand well. They must be using more banana oil. (There is a reference only the really old timers will related to.)