OS .65AX

[Greg Kieliszek]

My OS .65AX is eating glow plugs at an alarming rate. I’m using OS #8 plugs and 15 percent nitro fuel (caster mix). One actually disintegrated today and the debris locked up the piston. Is this unique or are other OS .65AX users seeing the same thing? Is there a better plug?

 

BTW, my email service provider (Verizon) has begun blocking messages from SPA users due to the sheer volume. Is there another way for people like Barry, who ask lots of questions, to get answers through the SPA website?

 

Greg Kieliszek

[John Cone]

Greg,

A couple of years ago I was blowing a lot of OS plugs in my MARK (Moki) 1.35

A friend gave me a SIG glow plug with the idle bar.

I ran that one SIG plug for at least a year without needing to replace it.

You should try dropping back to 10% nitro for cold temps and 5% for summer hot temps.

Run you engines just a little on the rich side.

R/C Long Glow Plug with Idle Bar

1-1/2 Volt, Long Thread Designed for sport or competition flying in standard 2-cycle model engines. http://www.sigmfg.com/IndexText/SIGGP001.html Best Regards JC I don't always fly R/C...but when I do, I fly FASST.  Fly well my friends.

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[Barry Demers]

Greg, people could respond directly to my email address.  Of course, if I quit asking questions, the volume should decrease as well. People do see my email address, so I can still be reached, if necessary.  Let's try that for awhile, see if Verizon still is being bothered.  Let me know how it goes.

Barry

--
Thank you,

Barry

[Jamie]

How is it idling and transistioning?

Rear bearing that came with my batch of .65's was trash after 25-30 flights. 

Start out 11 x 7 APC new high speed bearings and a Mc Coy 59.  10% is plenty. I'm having good luck with. 

 First sign of a bad bearing is lack of a good idle, you'll notice that before the spinner getting warm during the flight.  Most folks chase the idle needle not realizing is the heat causing the mixture change. Can't really tell how bad the bearings are till you get them in your hand.

Jamie

--

[jf_o...@comcast.net]

Greg,

   I am surprised. I use OS#8 plugs with 15% Omega(castor blend) in my OS 61SF engines. I average over 100 flights per plug. I would suspect that you are running a bit lean or maybe the compression is higher on the 65 AX than on my 61 SF. That's very strange behavior from Verizon. The volume of SPA email doesn't seem high and it certainly is much less than what I receive on my other Comcast email account.

Jeff

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From: "Greg Kieliszek" <gkiel...@nc.rr.com>
To: spame...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 2:51:43 PM
Subject: [SPA] OS .65AX

My OS .65AX is eating glow plugs at an alarming rate. I’m using OS #8 plugs and 15 percent nitro fuel (caster mix). One actually disintegrated today and the debris locked up the piston. Is this unique or are other OS .65AX users seeing the same thing? Is there a better plug?

 

BTW, my email service provider (Verizon) has begun blocking messages from SPA users due to the sheer volume. Is there another way for people like Barry, who ask lots of questions, to get answers through the SPA website?

 

Greg Kieliszek

[Greg Kieliszek]

Sounds exactly like what I’m seeing with my engine. Do you have a source for bearings?

 

Greg

[jf_o...@comcast.net]

Try Boca Bearings (www.bocabearings.com). I've had good service form them.

Jeff

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From: "Greg Kieliszek" <gkiel...@nc.rr.com>
To: SPAme...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:23:19 PM
Subject: RE: [SPA] OS .65AX

[Jay Marshall]

Greg, I run 15% Cool Power in my .65 powered DB and have had no problems at all (other than dumb thumb).

 

Jay Marshall

--

[Jim Johns]

I hate to disagree with Jeff, but Boca Bearings are GRODDLY

[jf_o...@comcast.net]

Then suggest an alternative...

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From: "Johns, Jim" <tr2...@gmail.com>
To: SPAme...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 5:02:03 PM

[Jim Johns]

I will - hit SEND by accident!

[George Truett]

Boca has more than one price range of bearing, I have found the High Performance line to be a good quality bearing.  Their Econo version has at times been questionable for me, you get what you pay for.  If you have dimensions you can usually source them locally or online from a manufacturer like Skf.  George
 

---

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 21:03:05 +0000
From: jf_o...@comcast.net

[Jamie]

Boco bearing is a good place, speak with Teddy.

Just get the high speed bearings, but I'm testing ceramic with good luck, so far. Smooth as a whistle, turning 13,700 with 10% cool Power and a 11 x 8, all stock OS muffler, minus the baffle, he he he :).

Testing soon some 10.75 x 9 and 10.5 x 9 APC's just for the fun.

My Curare will not stop on a vertical after liftoff, but I'd like a bit more  flat speed gear down. 6 lbs 12 ounces don't take a lot :). Got a nice 90-92 mph gear down, and 97-98 with my tuned pipe and the gear sucked up. RPMs in the low 14's on a pipe. 

Jamie

[Jamie]

Other source ???

Jamie

[Jim Johns]

I hate to disagree with Jeff, but Boca Bearings are GROSSLY overpriced for what you get IMHO. I use Boca's site for only one reason - to check the sizes of the bearings you need. Your OS 61 AX ABL take a 6903 rear bearing (same bearing used in OS 61 FSR/VF, YS 60 & 61, early OS 61 SF/RF, etc) and a 6901 front bearing. Boca lists their LOWEST PRICED SET for your engine (Econo Power #ENK-036) at $24.95 - http://www.bocabearings.com/productdetail.aspx?ItemID=2043&MODSYSID=10216&ProductSubGroupID=22. Both bearings in the set have double metal shields denoted by the letters "ZZ" at the end of the bearing nomenclature. 

I use RCBearings.com with great success. They have great bearings, fast service, and excellent prices. You select the exactly the quality and price you want.

Searching their site by bearing number results in 10 choices for the rear bearing - http://www.rcbearings.com/search.php?search_query=6903&x=0&y=0. I'm currently running their standard 6903 with great success in my OS 61 FSR and YS 60 (http://www.rcbearings.com/products/6903-17-x-30-x-7-bearing.html). It's $8.87 each. You want an open rear bearing to give the best lubrication. This particular bearing has a composite retainer, which means no metal pieces to go through your engine in the event of failure.

Searching for the front bearing (http://www.rcbearings.com/search.php?search_query=6901&x=0&y=0) yields 6 choices. I'd suggest the 6901-2RS rubber sealed bearing with the rear seal removed for better lubrication. That particular tip came from long time pattern flier, Flying Models pattern columnist and my good friend Dean Pappas. I'm running their equivalent bearing (R6-2RS) in my OS 61 2-strokes. Their price is $3.28 each.

Add those figures together and you get $12.15. Paul also offers a set (http://www.rcbearings.com/products/os-65-ax-abl-bearing-set.html) for $10.97. I'm not positive, but I'd bet it contains those same two bearings. Give Paul a call at (480) 788-7416 to discuss your specific needs. He's always been most helpful to me and never steered me wrong.

Pay more if you want, but I'll stick with RCBearings.com. I have NO AFFILIATION WHATSOEVER with this company - I'm simply a very satisfied customer.

Jim Johns

SPA L23

On Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:03:06 PM UTC-5, Jeff Owens wrote:

Then suggest an alternative...

[Jim Johns]

Correction - OS 65 AX

Jim

[Jerry Joyner]

Greg,

My experience would say that the first thing to check if you are "eating" glow plugs would be the compression ratio. check and ensure that the brass gasket is assembled between the head and case. Too many of us are flying standard plugs and 15% fuel and have plugs lasting 50 flights plus. I would think it would have to be linked to something that affects combustion. JMO.

Jerry

[George Truett]

You can get bearings from suppliers like McMaster Carr and MSC if you have dimensions.  There are so many choices in bearings it's very easy to get something inappropriate for our engines if you don't know what you're looking for.  Boca has served our hobby well and has people who actually know what we're doing, just buy their better lines.  I bought some bearings from someone advertising on one of the forums, Bearings Direct or some name similar to that.  They were bad from the start and went in the garbage after one run.
George
 

---

Subject: Re: [SPA] OS .65AX

From: jstron...@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 16:16:40 -0500
To: SPAme...@googlegroups.com

[Les Smith]

Look at  your piston sleeve.  The cheap chrome OS uses may be flaking off (I’m not knocking OS, I use them but they don’t do a good job of plating).  At this point it may be tough to tell which came first, the glow plug damaging the sleeve or the sleeve damaging the glow plug.

--

[Les Smith]

I’ve had good luck with Boca also.  Even if the bearings are bad you should check the sleeve because regardless of where the metal came from  there is a good chance your sleeve and piston received damage when they locked up.

[Phil S.]

Barry, I don't like that solution -- email programs and ISPs can be told that SPA is not spam and to send them through.  Comcast doesn't block any of  my emails, AFIK...

Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary
AMA 1294 Scientific Leader Member
SPA L-18, Board Member
(865)435-1476v, (865)604-0541c

[Phil S.]

BOCA -- Google 'em, young Padawan...

Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary
AMA 1294 Scientific Leader Member
SPA L-18, Board Member
(865)435-1476v, (865)604-0541c

[Jamie]

Good info, try'em soon

Jamie

[Phil S.]

WTF does "groddly" mean????????????  I've not had any problems with the few I've needed in my career.

Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary
AMA 1294 Scientific Leader Member
SPA L-18, Board Member
(865)435-1476v, (865)604-0541c

[Jim Johns]

It means "typo" Phil. LOL!

[Phil S.]

WOW -- learned something new today -- groggly means typo.  Whodda thunK???

Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary
AMA 1294 Scientific Leader Member
SPA L-18, Board Member
(865)435-1476v, (865)604-0541c

On 9/28/2014 6:09 PM, Jim Johns wrote:

It means "typo" Phil. LOL!

  

[Duane Wilson]

I think he means GRODDY with a long "O" sound, which isn't really a word, but I think he means P-O-S.  Jim, didn't realize you were a "valley guy"

[Jeff Owens]

Actually, it was supposed to be "grossly" since his followup email said grossly overpriced.

Jeff

[Duane Wilson]

"Groddly"  was close.  So that explains everything--he was suffering from premature send-if-ication...

[Greg Kieliszek]

I did look at the piston/sleeve Les…. Doesn’t look good L

 

Greg

[Greg Kieliszek]

I think I’ll pass…. $82 plus change and probably also needs a piston/sleeve. I think I’ll put my old Webra Speed back in first. Might still be strong enough to do the job. If not…. Well might be a Rossi in my future.

 

Greg

 

From: SPAme...@googlegroups.com [mailto:SPAme...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jamie
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 6:03 PM
To: SPAme...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SPA] OS .65AX

 

Good info, try'em soon

Jamie

[Steve Ehlers]

Gregg ,

My brothers first .65 also had the same issues with plugs .Then one flight made a noise and quit ,with a dead stick landing .
Engine was locked -up and after inspection ,I found Rear bearing cage exploded . Returned engine to Hobby Services of
O S Engines and they Denied a claim for failure . They said it was Rust !that caused the bearing failure and subsequent total engine destruction . I had taken the engine apart and there was No rust in it . I went round and round with their So-called Tech people . After- run was always used after flying it after running all fuel out of it .  The engine had less than a gallon of fuel run trough it. The engine was junk now ,but they offered to sell another for about $150 .... What a warranty ! I have never had to use the 2 year warranty ever ,but don't get complacent thinking your wonderful  New .65's and .95's will be covered if ANYTHING breaks and the engine is damaged . I didn't let this out when it happened ,but now with at least a half dozen Bearing failures in this engine ,and others that were lucky enough to change them before they exploded ,they are Lucky .Basically ,I'm NOT impressed with a warranty that means Nothing ! I will consider buying other engine brands my self in the future .

Steve

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[Greg Kieliszek]

It’s weird Steve… bought the 65AX mostly because I was quite happy with the 55AX and 75AX I bought previously. I’m really bummed about the 65AX though.

 

Greg

--

[Steve Ehlers]

Greg ,
 The rear bearing size and stock materials are Not up to the job this engine stress' it to . IMO the bearing is too small and or
supported with too few Balls !
Steve

[Phil S.]

HUH???  I don't grok "valley guy" either...what does that have to do with "groddley" or "groddy"?

Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary
AMA 1294 Scientific Leader Member
SPA L-18, Board Member
(865)435-1476v, (865)604-0541c

[Phil S.]

Don't blame you , Steve, for looking to other brands.  I had a new OS 65 in my thoughts, but after this I won't!!!

..."[your] brother's FIRST .65..."  He has had more than one???

Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary
AMA 1294 Scientific Leader Member
SPA L-18, Board Member
(865)435-1476v, (865)604-0541c

[Robert Redmon]

Although it has gotten better over time, OS has had problems with their sleeves shedding the nickle plating ever since they switched from chrome back in the 80s. I understand it had to do with a Japanese environmental restriction on the process required to chrome the brass cylinders. Apparently, nickle plating is not so noxious. Anyway, since then, it has been necessary to treat OS engines with much care...heat and inadequate lubrications being the worse culprits, but foreign material entering from the intake can also start the process. A good filter prevents this cause. When the liner begins flaking off nickle, the first indication is that glow plug life shortens dramatically. From then on, the flaking gets worse and worse and the sleeve is ruined in pretty short order.Same thing can be caused by plating on the bearings beginning to flake off, but with OS, it is usually the sleeve.

I am not sure how Saito, Enya, and YS have gotten around the restriction as they  (as far as I know) still do ABC/AAC. They probably have their sleeves made (or at least plated) somewhere besides Japan.

FWIW,

Bob

-- 
Robert Redmon K5SM
AMA 58073

[Jamie]

I went into the OS .65 knowing the rear bearing was a problem, however, changing it right away the motor has been flawless. $174 to the door, muffler and all ain't bad. My thoughts are to put 2-300 flights on it then sell it to a fun flyer buddy. OS ain't what it use to be, but for reliability I've found mine hard to beat, top end to bottom. Every engine has its flaws, but if I get a motor that runs without issue 98 flights out of a hundred, whatever the make, it's a winner. I Never touch my needle, unless the prior flight something seemed off. Tach it to the Max RPM, back it off 5-8%, and just fly. Mine Has not been touched all year long, altitude change or not. It's a shame OS let so many 65's get out without fixing the rear bearing issue, but it's not a bad fix, 30 minutes. If I had a new engine, the rear bearing would come out and be replaced immediately, Why risk an entire engine on what Ya already know rear bearing is substandard and not holding up ? Just my experience.

Jamie

[Charlie Johns]

Right on Jamie. I replaced rear bearing in a 120AX with a better bearing before first run. Others were having trouble with new stock bearing. Mine is still good and I like the engine.

I did have a problem with warranty on a new 91fs with very little fuel thru it. You know back when the cams were peeling. They said it was rusty bearings?????? I guess from the factory. Repaired at my cost.  On the other hand they have replaced  a $15 defective out of the box item---no questions.

Where ever or what ever we buy we need to be aware of problems others are having and adjust our buying habits. Just one of the reasons I'm thankful for SPA and other forums. See y'all in Cullman.

 

Charlie

[Eric Nessler]

I'll tell you what I haven't had the first minute's problem with, the Novarossi.  It's been screaming like a demon all season, straight out of the box!  Last I adjusted my needle was in Knoxville, and that includes Asheville.  In years past I've had to readjust my 4 cycles for the difference in climate up here in Buckeye country and down in dixie, and this season on the NR there was none of that.  I couldn't be happier with the product, consistency or the power.  I believe Dave Phillips told me when he visited the NR plant in Italy that their owner was checking bearings that were exclusively produced in-house because he didn't trust sourcing out bearings, but Dave can comment on that end.

Subject: Re: [SPA] OS .65AX
From: jstron...@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 16:16:40 -0500
To: SPAme...@googlegroups.com

Other source ???

Jamie

On Sep 28, 2014, at 4:02 PM, Jim Johns <tr2...@gmail.com> wrote:

I hate to disagree with Jeff, but Boca Bearings are GRODDLY

On Sunday, September 28, 2014 3:37:42 PM UTC-5, Jeff Owens wrote:

 

Try Boca Bearings (http://www.bocabearings.com/). I've had good service form them.

 

Jeff

 

From: "Greg Kieliszek" <gkiel...@nc.rr.com>
To: SPAme...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:23:19 PM
Subject: RE: [SPA] OS .65AX

 

Sounds exactly like what I’m seeing with my engine. Do you have a source for bearings?

 

Greg

 

From: SPAme...@googlegroups.com [mailto:SPAme...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jamie
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 3:23 PM
To: SPAme...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SPA] OS .65AX

 

How is it idling and transistioning?

Rear bearing that came with my batch of .65's was trash after 25-30 flights. 

Start out 11 x 7 APC new high speed bearings and a Mc Coy 59.  10% is plenty. I'm having good luck with. 

 First sign of a bad bearing is lack of a good idle, you'll notice that before the spinner getting warm during the flight.  Most folks chase the idle needle not realizing is the heat causing the mixture change. Can't really tell how bad the bearings are till you get them in your hand.

 

Jamie

On Sep 28, 2014, at 1:51 PM, "Greg Kieliszek" <gkiel...@nc.rr.com> wrote:

My OS .65AX is eating glow plugs at an alarming rate. I’m using OS #8 plugs and 15 percent nitro fuel (caster mix). One actually disintegrated today and the debris locked up the piston. Is this unique or are other OS .65AX users seeing the same thing? Is there a better plug?

 

BTW, my email service provider (Verizon) has begun blocking messages from SPA users due to the sheer volume. Is there another way for people like Barry, who ask lots of questions, to get answers through the SPA website?

 

Greg Kieliszek

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[Ddphill9]

Eric, you are right on with the Nova Rossi Bearings !   I watched two of their employees, assemble bearings and send them to Mr. Rossi for inspection. His wife told me that he will not allow any bearings to be installed without being inspected by him.. To add to what you were saying the only thing that was not done in house was the coloring of the blocks. They cast all the parts, do all machining in house, assemble all glow plugs and bearings !!!!  

The plant was as clean as any manufacturing plant I have ever seen !! 

All Nova Rossi engines are assembled by hand and tested..

 I also have a R60F just like the one Eric is running on my Dirty Birdy that has ran out of the box with out any adjustment more than a tweak on the needle valve..

Dave

ddph...@aol.com

[Jamie]

No doubd't the Nova Rossi is the, strongest, hottest ticket, and best quality motor that can be still bought new, but I'm just waiting on a stock 2 screw muffler that comes with it, before I try again. The muffler NR has now is junk, pretty but drops 1200 rpm from and open face run, to a muffler run.

 The tight cowling on my Curare with the Nova Rossi and its adapter requires me to remove the cowling to change from muffler to pipe, ( bummer). It's so nice to unscrew two muffler screws, drop the muffler and add the header for my pipe, one hush clamp on the pipe and go. Only problem for me is I tend to let my permetex gasket sealer dry overnight. Like to keep the front nice and dry :). I'm Sure I'll be hanging one of the NR's on the nose before to awful long :). If I can get another 2-5 mph, just means less control inputs to through in, at least that's what I've found to be true. No more are the days of full rudder for knife edge flight, only about 1/4" deflection does it going near 100 mph, he he he

Most of the engines flaws of now of days is not having a ring to replace to give Ya a simple inexpensive rebuild. Know for a piston and sleeve for the .65 is 3/4's the price of the entire engine. So, like I said, 2-300 flights, sell it to a fun flyer for $100, and buy a new one. 

Jamie

[Tim Reed]

With the power of the NR 60F on a Jett exhaust do you think you need to change mufflers?  You're not using the 60CR are you?

I'll most likely give away a NR 60F at the Fort Worth CPA October 11 :-)   I'll give them a choice of the Speed 13 or the 60F but with the popularity of SPA and not wanting to change exhaust like you're doing, I'm sure they'll choose the 60F.

Or you could buy another Curare for SPA...ouch$$$

Tim

---

From: Jamie <jstron...@gmail.com>
To: "SPAme...@googlegroups.com" <SPAme...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 8:12 PM

[Jamie]

Jett muffler/ pipe makes it come alive. Only way to run a NR, other than a pipe. Looking forward to the new mufflers for them. Dave will keep us in the loop, I'm sure.

Jamie

[Ddphill9]

 Jamie, you need to buy a R60CR !! this is the same engine as the R60F but is hand built by Cesar Rossi !!  The engine has the same type bolt pattern as your OS and will accept any thing that will bolt on a OS !!  You have your choice of mufflers !! the muffler that Jeff Owens is using from mac's will bolt on as well as the jett ! The motor that I have on the bootlegger is one of those engines only mine has a black  block and is a house production motor  (nothing special about it ) The CR engine is a little more expensive than the R60F because of being hand built by Mr Rossi..but is a very nice piece !!  

Dave.

ddph...@aol.com

[Jamie]

May just do that this winter. Need to help the dude trying to help us !!!

Jamie

<R60CR 001_2.JPG>

<R60CR 004_2.JPG>

[Ddphill9]

Yep !!!

[Tim Reed]

Maybe I didn't ask the right question, why would you change to a PIPE if the Jett exhaust works so well for both applications?

---

From: Jamie <jstron...@gmail.com>
To: "SPAme...@googlegroups.com" <SPAme...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 8:44 PM

[Eric Nessler]

that was the comment that Mark Radcliff gave me last season (2013) at the Asheville Masters when he switched to the NR in his P7.  He told me it was stronger on the muffler than the previous engine he had in there was on a pipe, said he probably wouldn't bother putting a pipe on it.  We had wind in 2013 there (just like this year too), and his airplane really pulled through the FAI Horizontal 8 in the outside portion back into the wind where the rest of us struggled.  That's when I said I was going to switch to Novarossi right there, and I'm glad I did. 

From: 'Tim Reed' via The Senior Pattern Association <SPAme...@googlegroups.com>
To: "SPAme...@googlegroups.com" <SPAme...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 10:39 PM

Subject: Re: [SPA] OS .65AX

Maybe I didn't ask the right question, why would you change to a PIPE if the Jett exhaust works so well for both applications?

From: Jamie <jstron...@gmail.com>
To: "SPAme...@googlegroups.com" <SPAme...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [SPA] OS .65AX

Jett muffler/ pipe makes it come alive. Only way to run a NR, other than a pipe. Looking forward to the new mufflers for them. Dave will keep us in the loop, I'm sure.

Jamie

On Sep 29, 2014, at 8:23 PM, 'Tim Reed' via The Senior Pattern Association <SPAme...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

With the power of the NR 60F on a Jett exhaust do you think you need to change mufflers?  You're not using the 60CR are you?

I'll most likely give away a NR 60F at the Fort Worth CPA October 11 :-)   I'll give them a choice of the Speed 13 or the 60F but with the popularity of SPA and not wanting to change exhaust like you're doing, I'm sure they'll choose the 60F.

Or you could buy another Curare for SPA...ouch$$$

Tim

[Jamie]

4-600 more RPM

Jamie

> On Sep 29, 2014, at 9:39 PM, "'Tim Reed' via The Senior Pattern Association" <SPAme...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Maybe I didn't ask the right question, why would you change to a PIPE if th=

> e Jett exhaust works so well for both applications?
>
>

> ________________________________
> From: Jamie <jstron...@gmail.com>
> To: "SPAme...@googlegroups.com" <SPAme...@googlegroups.com>=20

> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 8:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [SPA] OS .65AX

> =20
>
>
> Jet

[Jamie]

Out motor testing, Wow!!!!, what an idle, he he he

How about that test stand, screwed down :).

Jamie

Jamie

<R60CR 001_2.JPG>

<R60CR 004_2.JPG>