Those who haven't heard

[randyb]

I was recently having a discussion with a friend who believes there is
a God and has some understanding of the Bible and salvation, and right
and wrong from going to church when he was younger, but he has a
problem with people who have never heard the word or even seen a Bible
being condemed to hell without ever being given a chance. He doesn't
understand how a just and loving God could do that. It's keeping him
from wanting to know God and become a christian. O.K., I'm pretty
much stumped with this. I don't have a good answer for him, other
than of course that he needs to be responsible for his own salvation
and relationship with God through the Son, but this problem is keeping
him from that. I'd love to have a good answer for him and help him
find Jesus as his personal savior, but I'm not that wise to give him a
good answer to his problem. Any help or thoughts.

[Robert]

Well, there are two approaches.

First, the one that gives more glory to God but which might be kind of
unpalatable to most unbelievers and immature Christians. God does not
'send' anyone to hell, we earn that punishment ourselves by our sins.
We all have a conscience which tells us right from wrong and when we
go against God's law which is 'hidden in our heart' (Ecc. 3:11) we
deserve hell. So it is not that God is cruel in allowing some to go
to hell who have not heard the Gospel, it's more that he is extremely
gracious in allowing some to hear the Gospel, repent and believe and
be saved. I think of it like a lifeboat: you are in a lifeboat that
holds 10 people, you come along a sinking ship with thousands in the
water. You save 9 from death, since that is all you have room for.
Would you be held responsible for the other thousands that perish? Of
course not! You would be a hero. So, if someone does not hear the
Gospel and dies unsaved they deserved their punishment; those who hear
and respond deserve it too, their salvation was not earned by
believing, it was an act of grace.

But, I wouldn't share that with a new believer or unbeliever, hard to
understand, since they will argue that God's lifeboat is big enough
that all should be able to be saved and that he could saved everyone.

The other approach is to consider that God does reveal himself to all
people, though not all hear John 3:16. Romans 1 speaks of the fact
that none of us have an excuse to deny God since he is evident in
Creation. He has given us a conscience and those who go against it
have no excuse, again, from Romans 1. Those who follow their
conscience will be judged based on what they knew: they can do right
or wrong out of a desire to be obedient to God even though they may
not be able to call on the name of Jesus and be baptized, that is
found in Romans 2: 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,
do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for
themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show
that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their
consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now
even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will
judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

If you notice, they are still judged and saved by Christ, even though
it is their conscience which will bear witness to them. It's like
Abraham who was saved by faith in Christ, even though he did not know
the name of Christ, yet he believed in God's savior.

So, short answer, they will be judged by what they knew and how they
responded to the innate knowledge we have of God.

Your point is more important though: this guy has heard the Gospel, so
he has no excuse when he rejects the name of Christ, and will be held
to a higher standard, to those who much has been given, much will be
expected. He should not use this difficult subject as an excuse to
reject Christ.

[Wayne]

Condemned by God without a chance to hear about His offer of a pardon
for all? Your friend is right. It sounds like the ultimate
unfairness. I have always found it to be the weakest link in the
credibility of the gospel and I have no good answer for it.

The condemnation part is easy. Using the creation as proof, it's not
hard to convince even a non-believer that there is a God (Romans 1).
Then, using their own innate knowledge of right and wrong (conscience)
it's equally easy to believe that all have done wrong at some point,
violated that conscience, and therefore offended God (Romans 2). Some
have no bible you say? Never heard of the ten commandments? Doesn't
matter. All have a conscience. And all have at some point violated
that innate knowledge of right and wrong put in each human heart by
God. So, it's not hard for anyone to imagine that we may all be
condemned as evil by the holy God that created us with free wills. No
one "measures up".

But the second part is not so easy. To discover that God has a way to
count us as innocent after all, a plan of rescue from condemnation
that is effective only for those who just happen to hear about
it?.... Well... that doesn't fit well with our concept of love or
justice. But that's what Romans 10:9-17 seems to say.

Will there be a second chance for the dead and condemned who never had
opportunity to hear the gospel the first time around? If so, the
bible doesn't mention it, and Hebrews 9:27 implies not. Might they be
excused since it wasn't their fault they never heard of Jesus? No,
they are not condemned for rejecting Jesus. They are condemned for
their sin which God will not excuse. Might there be some other way
they could be saved holding them accountable only for the light they
had? Romans 10:9-17 and John 16:6 seem to say no. Only followers of
Jesus are pardoned.

So to your friend I would say -- Don't like it? Sound unfair? Too
narrow minded? I agree.

But what if it's true? It's God's ballgame. Do we gamble away our
own eternal life with God because He seems to be doing something we
don't understand? The only logical response is to thank our lucky
stars we happen to be one of those who HAVE heard about the rescue -
and then heartily and thankfully accept it. Maybe someday God will
explain to us how it all worked out totally fair and just. Because
I'm convinced, somehow, it is.

Wayne

On Jan 20, 4:54 am, randyb <biddle...@windstream.net> wrote:

[Robert]

Wayne,

You asked rhetorically: "Condemned by God...."

That's the thing. We are not condemned by God, we are condemned by
our sin. So, we really have no excuse when/if we are punished for our
sins, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

That might help this discussion with Randy's friend, to see that it is
our sins that condemn us, not some capricious act of God.

But in the end, like you say, this is a hard subject to understand and
explain. After all, even today there are many who never hear an
accurate portrayal of the Gospel. We have to rest on what we know of
the nature of God to know that He will do what is right and to the
glory of His name.

Robert

[Wayne]

But Randy's friend is not hung up on what causes condemnation. What
seems unfair to him is that those who never hear the gospel have no
chance to be rescued from condemnation. For God to make provisions
for a rescue, but then not make sure everyone at least hears about
that rescue, that is what's keeping Randy's friend from trusting such
a God. That's the way I read Randy's post - is that right Randy?

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[randyb]

Wayne,

That's right. It's his feeling that how can it be right for a just
and righteous God to condem someone to hell for something that they
never even heard or had a chance to take advantage of the gift of
salvation. Hard question, good discussion. I'm glad to see the
participation on the discussion group.

Randy

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