Standing policy and experiences
10 views
Skip to first unread message
Andrew Leach
Oct 30, 2009, 8:37:21 AM10/30/09
to Southern East Coastway Commuters
All TOCs (train operating companies) must make best endeavours to
ensure a passenger has a seat and does not have to stand for over 20
minutes.
Where a passenger has to delay their journey due to having to take a
later train or indirect service that delays your journey by 20 minutes
then they can claim the compensation in the passenger charter
published by the TOC.
In the case of Southern a delay by 30 to 59 minutes means a 50%
refund, and for 60+ minutes it's 100% of the fare. For season tickets
it's a more complicated calculation, especially if you purchased your
Gold Card before 20th September, however some money can be claimed
back.
It is considered acceptable to have 30 passengers standing per 100
seated, for 20 minutes. However on the 7:15am First Capital Connect
service from Cambridge to King's Cross frequently has 76 people
standing for every 100 seated.
Health and safety: It is often argued by the passenger users'
associations that overcrowding is a health and safety issue. It is
undoubtedly the case that the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974
applies to the safety of rail passengers and indeed the rail companies
involved in the Potters Bar disaster and others were fined heavily by
the Health and Safety Executive. However, the HSE has made it clear
that subject to certain exceptions, overcrowding in itself does not
create health risks and is a matter of comfort rather than safety.
Further Reading:
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article2185511.ece
http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/
http://www.southernrailway.com/your-journey/passengers-charter/
Action:
If you have experiences to relate of standing on trains in excess of
20 minutes, please reply to this message. We need to know which train
you were on, when the standing started and how long it was for. Times
and stations are both useful. Also please say if seats were actually
available but weren't used; and why that was so if you can.
We plan to create a database of experiences, but while that's being
set up, any data you can provide will be useful. If you can reply to
this message it will help keep all the responses in some semblance of
order.
Thanks
NB:
If you're receiving this by email, you will receive replies containing
the reports as well. You may wish to filter Coastway emails into a
separate folder. You can also change whether the Group sends you email
by changing the settings in the top-left of the page at
http://groups.google.com/group/southern-east-coastway-commuters/subscribe
If you're reading this in the web group, please be sure to click
"Reply", not "Reply to author"
--
With acknowledgement to Ray Chapman for the research
ensure a passenger has a seat and does not have to stand for over 20
minutes.
Where a passenger has to delay their journey due to having to take a
later train or indirect service that delays your journey by 20 minutes
then they can claim the compensation in the passenger charter
published by the TOC.
In the case of Southern a delay by 30 to 59 minutes means a 50%
refund, and for 60+ minutes it's 100% of the fare. For season tickets
it's a more complicated calculation, especially if you purchased your
Gold Card before 20th September, however some money can be claimed
back.
It is considered acceptable to have 30 passengers standing per 100
seated, for 20 minutes. However on the 7:15am First Capital Connect
service from Cambridge to King's Cross frequently has 76 people
standing for every 100 seated.
Health and safety: It is often argued by the passenger users'
associations that overcrowding is a health and safety issue. It is
undoubtedly the case that the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974
applies to the safety of rail passengers and indeed the rail companies
involved in the Potters Bar disaster and others were fined heavily by
the Health and Safety Executive. However, the HSE has made it clear
that subject to certain exceptions, overcrowding in itself does not
create health risks and is a matter of comfort rather than safety.
Further Reading:
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article2185511.ece
http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/
http://www.southernrailway.com/your-journey/passengers-charter/
Action:
If you have experiences to relate of standing on trains in excess of
20 minutes, please reply to this message. We need to know which train
you were on, when the standing started and how long it was for. Times
and stations are both useful. Also please say if seats were actually
available but weren't used; and why that was so if you can.
We plan to create a database of experiences, but while that's being
set up, any data you can provide will be useful. If you can reply to
this message it will help keep all the responses in some semblance of
order.
Thanks
NB:
If you're receiving this by email, you will receive replies containing
the reports as well. You may wish to filter Coastway emails into a
separate folder. You can also change whether the Group sends you email
by changing the settings in the top-left of the page at
http://groups.google.com/group/southern-east-coastway-commuters/subscribe
If you're reading this in the web group, please be sure to click
"Reply", not "Reply to author"
--
With acknowledgement to Ray Chapman for the research
simond
Nov 1, 2009, 4:15:22 PM11/1/09
to Southern East Coastway Commuters
Re standing on homeward journey
I generally catch the 17.23 Littlehampton train from Clapham
Junction. I usually find a seat at East Croydon, but once or twice a
week I have to stand further (as happened on Friday just gone, when
this train comprised only eight coaches) - means 40 mins standing.
After the change at Haywards Heath I usually have to stand until
Wivelsfield, only three or four minutes, and can then find a seat.
However, I often choose to stand when seats are available because in
the coaches with five seats across none is on its own wide enough for
an adult male of more than medium build. In effect, there are only
three seats across, plus two for children (who normally do not use
rush-hour trains from London to the coast) or very slim young things.
The atmosphere when all seats are taken is also very stuffy. Sitting
in the aisle seat on one of the seats for two people in the "cattle-
truck" carriages means having part of your body in the aisle and a
bent posture. The nominal number of seats substantially exaggerates
the number of seats available for adults. The journey gets
comfortable after Polegate.
Simon
On Oct 30, 12:37 pm, Andrew Leach <andrew.leac...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
I generally catch the 17.23 Littlehampton train from Clapham
Junction. I usually find a seat at East Croydon, but once or twice a
week I have to stand further (as happened on Friday just gone, when
this train comprised only eight coaches) - means 40 mins standing.
After the change at Haywards Heath I usually have to stand until
Wivelsfield, only three or four minutes, and can then find a seat.
However, I often choose to stand when seats are available because in
the coaches with five seats across none is on its own wide enough for
an adult male of more than medium build. In effect, there are only
three seats across, plus two for children (who normally do not use
rush-hour trains from London to the coast) or very slim young things.
The atmosphere when all seats are taken is also very stuffy. Sitting
in the aisle seat on one of the seats for two people in the "cattle-
truck" carriages means having part of your body in the aisle and a
bent posture. The nominal number of seats substantially exaggerates
the number of seats available for adults. The journey gets
comfortable after Polegate.
Simon
On Oct 30, 12:37 pm, Andrew Leach <andrew.leac...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
> All TOCs (train operating companies) must make best endeavours to
> ensure a passenger has a seat and does not have to stand for over 20
> minutes.
>
> Where a passenger has to delay their journey due to having to take a
> later train or indirect service that delays your journey by 20 minutes
> then they can claim the compensation in the passenger charter
> published by the TOC.
>
> In the case of Southern a delay by 30 to 59 minutes means a 50%
> refund, and for 60+ minutes it's 100% of the fare. For season tickets
> it's a more complicated calculation, especially if you purchased your
> Gold Card before 20th September, however some money can be claimed
> back.
>
> It is considered acceptable to have 30 passengers standing per 100
> seated, for 20 minutes. However on the 7:15am First Capital Connect
> service from Cambridge to King's Cross frequently has 76 people
> standing for every 100 seated.
>
> Health and safety: It is often argued by the passenger users'
> associations that overcrowding is a health and safety issue. It is
> undoubtedly the case that the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974
> applies to the safety of rail passengers and indeed the rail companies
> involved in the Potters Bar disaster and others were fined heavily by
> the Health and Safety Executive. However, the HSE has made it clear
> that subject to certain exceptions, overcrowding in itself does not
> create health risks and is a matter of comfort rather than safety.
>
> Further Reading:http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article2185511.ecehttp://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/http://www.southernrailway.com/your-journey/passengers-charter/
> ensure a passenger has a seat and does not have to stand for over 20
> minutes.
>
> Where a passenger has to delay their journey due to having to take a
> later train or indirect service that delays your journey by 20 minutes
> then they can claim the compensation in the passenger charter
> published by the TOC.
>
> In the case of Southern a delay by 30 to 59 minutes means a 50%
> refund, and for 60+ minutes it's 100% of the fare. For season tickets
> it's a more complicated calculation, especially if you purchased your
> Gold Card before 20th September, however some money can be claimed
> back.
>
> It is considered acceptable to have 30 passengers standing per 100
> seated, for 20 minutes. However on the 7:15am First Capital Connect
> service from Cambridge to King's Cross frequently has 76 people
> standing for every 100 seated.
>
> Health and safety: It is often argued by the passenger users'
> associations that overcrowding is a health and safety issue. It is
> undoubtedly the case that the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974
> applies to the safety of rail passengers and indeed the rail companies
> involved in the Potters Bar disaster and others were fined heavily by
> the Health and Safety Executive. However, the HSE has made it clear
> that subject to certain exceptions, overcrowding in itself does not
> create health risks and is a matter of comfort rather than safety.
>
>
> Action:
> If you have experiences to relate of standing on trains in excess of
> 20 minutes, please reply to this message. We need to know which train
> you were on, when the standing started and how long it was for. Times
> and stations are both useful. Also please say if seats were actually
> available but weren't used; and why that was so if you can.
>
> We plan to create a database of experiences, but while that's being
> set up, any data you can provide will be useful. If you can reply to
> this message it will help keep all the responses in some semblance of
> order.
>
> Thanks
>
> NB:
> If you're receiving this by email, you will receive replies containing
> the reports as well. You may wish to filter Coastway emails into a
> separate folder. You can also change whether the Group sends you email
> by changing the settings in the top-left of the page athttp://groups.google.com/group/southern-east-coastway-commuters/subsc...
> Action:
> If you have experiences to relate of standing on trains in excess of
> 20 minutes, please reply to this message. We need to know which train
> you were on, when the standing started and how long it was for. Times
> and stations are both useful. Also please say if seats were actually
> available but weren't used; and why that was so if you can.
>
> We plan to create a database of experiences, but while that's being
> set up, any data you can provide will be useful. If you can reply to
> this message it will help keep all the responses in some semblance of
> order.
>
> Thanks
>
> NB:
> If you're receiving this by email, you will receive replies containing
> the reports as well. You may wish to filter Coastway emails into a
> separate folder. You can also change whether the Group sends you email
Lucy
Nov 2, 2009, 4:37:25 AM11/2/09
to Southern East Coastway Commuters
I catch the 17.23 Eastbourne service from London Bridge. This is an 8
car train which is filled to capacity every single day. I frequently
have to stand for in excess of 20 mins, usually unable to get a seat
until after we have reached Horley or Haywards Heath (approx 40 mins).
The reason for the overcrowding on this service is due to the 17.46
service to Eastbourne (12 car train) being removed and replaced with
the 17.23 service which is only 8 cars. The later 18.22 service is 12
cars and is often half empty. Crazy!
Safety has got to be an issue for those of us using the 17.23; we are
packed in like cattle - the irony being there is probably better
legislation regarding the transportation of cattle than there is for
us commuters!
Added to this, the seats on these trains are barely large enough to
fit a normal sized adult on, and when the train is as full as it is,
the travelling conditions are extremely uncomfortable, especially in
the summer months.
Southern should be ashamed to charge £3800 for this "service".
Lucy
> Further Reading:http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article2185511.ecehttp://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/http://www.southernrailway.com/your-journey/passengers-charter/
car train which is filled to capacity every single day. I frequently
have to stand for in excess of 20 mins, usually unable to get a seat
until after we have reached Horley or Haywards Heath (approx 40 mins).
The reason for the overcrowding on this service is due to the 17.46
service to Eastbourne (12 car train) being removed and replaced with
the 17.23 service which is only 8 cars. The later 18.22 service is 12
cars and is often half empty. Crazy!
Safety has got to be an issue for those of us using the 17.23; we are
packed in like cattle - the irony being there is probably better
legislation regarding the transportation of cattle than there is for
us commuters!
Added to this, the seats on these trains are barely large enough to
fit a normal sized adult on, and when the train is as full as it is,
the travelling conditions are extremely uncomfortable, especially in
the summer months.
Southern should be ashamed to charge £3800 for this "service".
Lucy
>
> Action:
> If you have experiences to relate of standing on trains in excess of
> 20 minutes, please reply to this message. We need to know which train
> you were on, when the standing started and how long it was for. Times
> and stations are both useful. Also please say if seats were actually
> available but weren't used; and why that was so if you can.
>
> We plan to create a database of experiences, but while that's being
> set up, any data you can provide will be useful. If you can reply to
> this message it will help keep all the responses in some semblance of
> order.
>
> Thanks
>
> NB:
> If you're receiving this by email, you will receive replies containing
> the reports as well. You may wish to filter Coastway emails into a
> separate folder. You can also change whether the Group sends you email
> by changing the settings in the top-left of the page athttp://groups.google.com/group/southern-east-coastway-commuters/subsc...
> Action:
> If you have experiences to relate of standing on trains in excess of
> 20 minutes, please reply to this message. We need to know which train
> you were on, when the standing started and how long it was for. Times
> and stations are both useful. Also please say if seats were actually
> available but weren't used; and why that was so if you can.
>
> We plan to create a database of experiences, but while that's being
> set up, any data you can provide will be useful. If you can reply to
> this message it will help keep all the responses in some semblance of
> order.
>
> Thanks
>
> NB:
> If you're receiving this by email, you will receive replies containing
> the reports as well. You may wish to filter Coastway emails into a
> separate folder. You can also change whether the Group sends you email
tony bonnington
Nov 2, 2009, 6:25:37 AM11/2/09
to southern-east-co...@googlegroups.com
Not a story about the London Bridge - Eastbourne commute, but the London Victoria - Eastbourne one (although probably just as bad).
I catch the 18:47 from London Victoria to Eastbourne. There used to be a train at 18:17, but this went during the timetable alterations last year to make way for an additional train to Brighton (surprise surprise), so there is now a 45 minute interval between trains to Eastbourne at this time, whereas there used to be only 30 minutes.
This is actually a combined Eastbourne/Littlehampton train, which divides at Haywards Heath. The train used to have an 8 carriage unit to Eastbourne, with 4 carriages going to Littlehampton. I say used to, because as of the timetable change last September, the carriages were reduced to 4 for Eastbourne with 4 for Littlehampton.
The result of this is that the Eastbourne section of the train (I can only talk about this section as it is the one I take, but I'm sure the Littlehampton part is the same), is packed solid every day, with people standing throughout the length of every carriage. This only becomes worse at Clapham Junction and East Croydon as more people board than alight.
I usually have to stand until Haywards Heath at least, before I can get a seat - a journey of approximately 45 minutes. I should add that sometimes, especially at half term and general school holidays, due to the number of schoolkids, their parents, German students etc. all trying to crowd onto a 4 carriage train, I and many others have had to stand until Lewes. Quite ridiculous!
It doesn't look as though this situation is going to change any time soon, but it is surely unacceptable that people should be expected to pay increasing rail fares for a greatly reduced and poor service. I did contact my local MP about this, and in fairness he did write to Southern, who responded, but beyond the usual platitudes and promises to review the situation, nothing has changed.
What also gets me is that I hear reports that the 18:24 from London Bridge to Eastbourne is a 12 carriage train, but runs approximately half full. I don't understand the logic of Southern to run trains providing over capacity on some routes and providing others that are severely overcrowded!! Enlighten me someone!!
Tony
I catch the 18:47 from London Victoria to Eastbourne. There used to be a train at 18:17, but this went during the timetable alterations last year to make way for an additional train to Brighton (surprise surprise), so there is now a 45 minute interval between trains to Eastbourne at this time, whereas there used to be only 30 minutes.
This is actually a combined Eastbourne/Littlehampton train, which divides at Haywards Heath. The train used to have an 8 carriage unit to Eastbourne, with 4 carriages going to Littlehampton. I say used to, because as of the timetable change last September, the carriages were reduced to 4 for Eastbourne with 4 for Littlehampton.
The result of this is that the Eastbourne section of the train (I can only talk about this section as it is the one I take, but I'm sure the Littlehampton part is the same), is packed solid every day, with people standing throughout the length of every carriage. This only becomes worse at Clapham Junction and East Croydon as more people board than alight.
I usually have to stand until Haywards Heath at least, before I can get a seat - a journey of approximately 45 minutes. I should add that sometimes, especially at half term and general school holidays, due to the number of schoolkids, their parents, German students etc. all trying to crowd onto a 4 carriage train, I and many others have had to stand until Lewes. Quite ridiculous!
It doesn't look as though this situation is going to change any time soon, but it is surely unacceptable that people should be expected to pay increasing rail fares for a greatly reduced and poor service. I did contact my local MP about this, and in fairness he did write to Southern, who responded, but beyond the usual platitudes and promises to review the situation, nothing has changed.
What also gets me is that I hear reports that the 18:24 from London Bridge to Eastbourne is a 12 carriage train, but runs approximately half full. I don't understand the logic of Southern to run trains providing over capacity on some routes and providing others that are severely overcrowded!! Enlighten me someone!!
Tony
2009/10/30 Andrew Leach <andrew....@googlemail.com>
Ian Phillips
Nov 2, 2009, 8:04:03 AM11/2/09
to southern-east-co...@googlegroups.com
Tony
Having been on that train every day from London Bridge to Lewes it is rarely on time and has been cancelled quite often and when it runs is totally laden with People on their way to east Croydon. The only benefit is that you get a seat if you are lucky from there.
And just one further point it is a 10 carriage train that is old but comfortable when you get a seat. A sit is older it is prone to breakdown especially with its ancient deadlock system that fails. It still does not have the capacity and the earlier 5.24 is so over crowded that it is little less than a cattle truck...in fact a lot worse. I have stood from London Bridge to Haywards Heath often and during the half term holidays was full of screaming kids and mothers trying to control them.
I do hear you in your moans and groans about the Victoria route also and we hopefully get some movement out of all these publicised meetings....
Ian
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 11:25:37 +0000
Subject: Southern East Coastway Commuters Re: Standing policy and experiences
From: tony.bo...@googlemail.com
To: southern-east-co...@googlegroups.com
Having been on that train every day from London Bridge to Lewes it is rarely on time and has been cancelled quite often and when it runs is totally laden with People on their way to east Croydon. The only benefit is that you get a seat if you are lucky from there.
And just one further point it is a 10 carriage train that is old but comfortable when you get a seat. A sit is older it is prone to breakdown especially with its ancient deadlock system that fails. It still does not have the capacity and the earlier 5.24 is so over crowded that it is little less than a cattle truck...in fact a lot worse. I have stood from London Bridge to Haywards Heath often and during the half term holidays was full of screaming kids and mothers trying to control them.
I do hear you in your moans and groans about the Victoria route also and we hopefully get some movement out of all these publicised meetings....
Ian
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 11:25:37 +0000
Subject: Southern East Coastway Commuters Re: Standing policy and experiences
From: tony.bo...@googlemail.com
To: southern-east-co...@googlegroups.com
Andy W
Nov 3, 2009, 10:54:33 AM11/3/09
to Southern East Coastway Commuters
I commute from London Bridge to Plumpton. We've only every had one
direct train from London Bridge, but at least it was at a reasonable
time. Now we have to wait until 18:22 for the only direct train. To
get back at the same time I used to, I now have to catch the 17:32 and
change at East Croydon. However, that train is so packed it's a real
fight to just get on and extremely crushed to East Croydon. It's so
bad in fact that I've had to give up on the 17:32 and now have to
catch an even earlier train and I still have to stand and change at
East Croydon. Oh and to top it off, I'm paying 10% extra for the
privilege of a much worse service :-(
direct train from London Bridge, but at least it was at a reasonable
time. Now we have to wait until 18:22 for the only direct train. To
get back at the same time I used to, I now have to catch the 17:32 and
change at East Croydon. However, that train is so packed it's a real
fight to just get on and extremely crushed to East Croydon. It's so
bad in fact that I've had to give up on the 17:32 and now have to
catch an even earlier train and I still have to stand and change at
East Croydon. Oh and to top it off, I'm paying 10% extra for the
privilege of a much worse service :-(
Tom Roper
Nov 3, 2009, 4:54:39 PM11/3/09
to southern-east-co...@googlegroups.com
I travel from Seaford to Clapham Junction. On the homeward journey, usually on the train that leaves Clapham Junction at 17:42, I usually have to stand to East Croydon and frequently beyond that, on some occasions as far as Lewes. If I take an earlier train, which seems to have fewer coaches, then I always have to stand.
Tom
beasley
Nov 4, 2009, 5:09:03 AM11/4/09
to southern-east-co...@googlegroups.com
To avoid the calamity 17.23 train from London Bridge to Eastbourne –
which we all know, means an unenviable long journey standing – I take
either the packed 17.29 Reigate or 17.32 Brighton train to East Croyden
and reside myself to the fact that the first part of the journey will
always be crushed, trampled, compacted and standing!
However, recently the 17.52 connection from Victoria is entirely full
and on occasion have had standing journeys totalling 45-55 minutes!
Companies Act 2006 : http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/companyinfo
which we all know, means an unenviable long journey standing – I take
either the packed 17.29 Reigate or 17.32 Brighton train to East Croyden
and reside myself to the fact that the first part of the journey will
always be crushed, trampled, compacted and standing!
However, recently the 17.52 connection from Victoria is entirely full
and on occasion have had standing journeys totalling 45-55 minutes!
Laurent
Nov 4, 2009, 8:28:50 AM11/4/09
to southern-east-co...@googlegroups.com
I'm turning up 10 minutes before scheduled departure of the 17:23 LBG
to EBN to get a seat.
This means leaving the office at 16:50. This also means taking the
earlier 05:42 EBN to LBG as a result.
Thank you Southern!
Laurent
2009/11/4 beasley <a.be...@londonmet.ac.uk>:
to EBN to get a seat.
This means leaving the office at 16:50. This also means taking the
earlier 05:42 EBN to LBG as a result.
Thank you Southern!
Laurent
2009/11/4 beasley <a.be...@londonmet.ac.uk>:
Diane
Nov 5, 2009, 8:15:21 AM11/5/09
to Southern East Coastway Commuters
On the few occassions I have travelled on the17.23 Eastbourne train
from London Bridge, the train has been standing room only to Haywards
Heath. This seems to be a regular occurrence, and fellow commuters
have warned that unless I get to the train 15 minutes before departure
there is no chance of a seat
My regular route was the straight through 17.17 London Victoria to
Seaford, this was cancelled and the new time is now 18.06, highly
inconvenient.There is now no train between London Vic and Lewes
between 16.45 and 17.36 - a gap of 50 minutes at one of the busiest
times of the day. Needless to say the pressure on the 17.36 can be
immense, particularily in school break time. One example of this was
last Thursday when there were people standing from London Victoria to
Lewes... a journey of just fractionally over an hour!
I understand that to complete Southern's downgrading of the Seaford
line, there is discussion on replacing train stock with the older
models.running between Seaford and Worthing... and there are no
toilets on board!! Does this also mean the end of the straight through
train as the two train stock versions cannot attach.
On 4 Nov, 13:28, Laurent <lseve...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm turning up 10 minutes before scheduled departure of the 17:23 LBG
> to EBN to get a seat.
>
> This means leaving the office at 16:50. This also means taking the
> earlier 05:42 EBN to LBG as a result.
>
> Thank you Southern!
>
> Laurent
>
> 2009/11/4 beasley <a.beas...@londonmet.ac.uk>:
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/southern-east-coastway-commuters/subsc...
>
> - Show quoted text -
from London Bridge, the train has been standing room only to Haywards
Heath. This seems to be a regular occurrence, and fellow commuters
have warned that unless I get to the train 15 minutes before departure
there is no chance of a seat
My regular route was the straight through 17.17 London Victoria to
Seaford, this was cancelled and the new time is now 18.06, highly
inconvenient.There is now no train between London Vic and Lewes
between 16.45 and 17.36 - a gap of 50 minutes at one of the busiest
times of the day. Needless to say the pressure on the 17.36 can be
immense, particularily in school break time. One example of this was
last Thursday when there were people standing from London Victoria to
Lewes... a journey of just fractionally over an hour!
I understand that to complete Southern's downgrading of the Seaford
line, there is discussion on replacing train stock with the older
models.running between Seaford and Worthing... and there are no
toilets on board!! Does this also mean the end of the straight through
train as the two train stock versions cannot attach.
On 4 Nov, 13:28, Laurent <lseve...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm turning up 10 minutes before scheduled departure of the 17:23 LBG
> to EBN to get a seat.
>
> This means leaving the office at 16:50. This also means taking the
> earlier 05:42 EBN to LBG as a result.
>
> Thank you Southern!
>
> Laurent
>
> >> If you're reading this in the web group, please be sure to click
> >> "Reply", not "Reply to author"
>
> >> --
> >> With acknowledgement to Ray Chapman for the research
>
> > Companies Act 2006 :http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/companyinfo- Hide quoted text -
> >> "Reply", not "Reply to author"
>
> >> --
> >> With acknowledgement to Ray Chapman for the research
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Davidc Pmp
Nov 5, 2009, 4:24:15 PM11/5/09
to Southern East Coastway Commuters
London Bridge to Eastbourne line has become near impossible in the
evening peak. Several others have commented that the 17.32 First
Capital Connect service out of London Bridge is hopelessly overcrowded
as are all the few others around that time. That is when it runs a
full 8 carriages. More and more frequently it runs only 4 cars
leading to an impossible situation On 2 occasions in the past
fortnight it was shown as 'cancelled' at London Bridge, but on at
least one of these it mysteriously re-appeared at East Croydon
although only in 4 car format.
On raising the issue of this time of day at the last Southern 'meet
the managers' day at London Bridge I was told that the rush hour FCC
trains were being withdrawn from London Bridge from the next timetable
change in December. Southern were not able to add extra services to
replace these and had no extra rolling stock to extend any of the
other services so the situation will get worse! anyone else picked
this up? - I can only hope the southern manager concerned was
misinformed. It is most alarming and clearly designed for customer
satisfaction - not!
david
> > > Companies Act 2006 :http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/companyinfo-Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
evening peak. Several others have commented that the 17.32 First
Capital Connect service out of London Bridge is hopelessly overcrowded
as are all the few others around that time. That is when it runs a
full 8 carriages. More and more frequently it runs only 4 cars
leading to an impossible situation On 2 occasions in the past
fortnight it was shown as 'cancelled' at London Bridge, but on at
least one of these it mysteriously re-appeared at East Croydon
although only in 4 car format.
On raising the issue of this time of day at the last Southern 'meet
the managers' day at London Bridge I was told that the rush hour FCC
trains were being withdrawn from London Bridge from the next timetable
change in December. Southern were not able to add extra services to
replace these and had no extra rolling stock to extend any of the
other services so the situation will get worse! anyone else picked
this up? - I can only hope the southern manager concerned was
misinformed. It is most alarming and clearly designed for customer
satisfaction - not!
david
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Peter Baker
Nov 5, 2009, 7:31:45 PM11/5/09
to southern-east-co...@googlegroups.com, david....@gmail.com
David
I don't think the trains are being withdrawn. If you look at
http://www.southernrailway.com/ and look at, say 18th dec, you will see a
17.23 and an 18.22 from London Bridge to Eastbourne.
Peter Baker
--
Peter Baker
http://www.pba-research.co.uk
I don't think the trains are being withdrawn. If you look at
http://www.southernrailway.com/ and look at, say 18th dec, you will see a
17.23 and an 18.22 from London Bridge to Eastbourne.
Peter Baker
Peter Baker
http://www.pba-research.co.uk
slwatson
Nov 6, 2009, 10:08:03 AM11/6/09
to Southern East Coastway Commuters
I second these remarks as I also regularly use the 17.23 from London
Bridge and have the same experiences. This train is grossly
overcrowded and there are always standing passengers in my coach as
far as Haywards Heath. I usually manage get a seat at Three Bridges,
occasionally at Horley.
Where the orginal post says "All TOCs (train operating companies) must
not comply with this. They have taken a business decision to run a 8
car train on this route and must be perfectly aware that they breach
the standing time requirement..
So what does "must" mean in this context?
> > Further Reading:http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article2185511.ece...
Bridge and have the same experiences. This train is grossly
overcrowded and there are always standing passengers in my coach as
far as Haywards Heath. I usually manage get a seat at Three Bridges,
occasionally at Horley.
Where the orginal post says "All TOCs (train operating companies) must
make best endeavours to ensure a passenger has a seat and does not
have to stand for over 20 minutes. " - it is clear that Southern do
not comply with this. They have taken a business decision to run a 8
car train on this route and must be perfectly aware that they breach
the standing time requirement..
So what does "must" mean in this context?
>
> > Action:
> > If you have experiences to relate of standing on trains in excess of
> > 20 minutes, please reply to this message. We need to know which train
> > you were on, when the standing started and how long it was for. Times
> > and stations are both useful. Also please say if seats were actually
> > available but weren't used; and why that was so if you can.
>
> > We plan to create a database of experiences, but while that's being
> > set up, any data you can provide will be useful. If you can reply to
> > this message it will help keep all the responses in some semblance of
> > order.
>
> > Thanks
>
> > NB:
> > If you're receiving this by email, you will receive replies containing
> > the reports as well. You may wish to filter Coastway emails into a
> > separate folder. You can also change whether the Group sends you email
> > by changing the settings in the top-left of the page athttp://groups.google.com/group/southern-east-coastway-commuters/subsc...
> > If you're reading this in the web group, please be sure to click
> > "Reply", not "Reply to author"
>
> > --
> > With acknowledgement to Ray Chapman for the research- Hide quoted text -
> > Action:
> > If you have experiences to relate of standing on trains in excess of
> > 20 minutes, please reply to this message. We need to know which train
> > you were on, when the standing started and how long it was for. Times
> > and stations are both useful. Also please say if seats were actually
> > available but weren't used; and why that was so if you can.
>
> > We plan to create a database of experiences, but while that's being
> > set up, any data you can provide will be useful. If you can reply to
> > this message it will help keep all the responses in some semblance of
> > order.
>
> > Thanks
>
> > NB:
> > If you're receiving this by email, you will receive replies containing
> > the reports as well. You may wish to filter Coastway emails into a
> > separate folder. You can also change whether the Group sends you email
> > by changing the settings in the top-left of the page athttp://groups.google.com/group/southern-east-coastway-commuters/subsc...
> > If you're reading this in the web group, please be sure to click
> > "Reply", not "Reply to author"
>
> > --
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages