Chickens to pass along
Andrew Gilmartin
So, we have 4 bantams -- 1 b&w speckled (1.5 years old), 1 tan (1.5 years old), and 2 black (6 months old) -- and 3 full-size Rhode Island Reds (2.5 years old) to pass on. I would prefer to pass them along as a group of 7. However, if you want only the bantams or only the reds that would be acceptable.
-- Andrew
Andrew Gilmartin
and...@andrewgilmartin.com
401-789-3077
Ruth
Ruth in Wakefield
789-7784
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lisa gibson mcmahon
I am very sorry to read of your troubles and discouragement with your
chickens. Chicken rearing is touted as a splendid, nutritious, and
humorous endeavor in the media (which it is) but no one writes that it
is fraught with heartache. Our wild birds and animals bring to them a
myriad of pests and diseases. They are tasty morsels to ALL domestic
and wild predators (us included). And, as much as we grow fond of
them, name them, garden with them, they are not long lived creatures.
My oldest bantie hen, Little Putt of 6 years, passed away recently due
to, well, I don't want to go into it here...
We've been keeping chickens now for six years; seen the mites, been
through the coccidia in juveniles and adults, have Fisher Cats,
Coyote, Fox, Domestic Dogs and Cats, Hawks and Owls all knocking on
their coop...I am sure its the squirrels and chipmuncks, interested in
their feed, are exposing them to the mites...but, in spite of it all,
my Husband and I look forward to the end of each day, taking a
breather with a cocktail (no pun intended) a time we've declared
Chicken Hour.
I understand your frustration. Take a breather, if you feel its
best. I hope you do jump back in someday!
Regards, Lisa in Saunderstown
On Jul 27, 2010, at 10:21 AM, Andrew Gilmartin wrote:
Andrew Gilmartin
-- Andrew
Andrew Gilmartin
and...@andrewgilmartin.com
401-789-3077
Ruth
If it's not too painful a topic of conversation, it occurs to me that it might be useful for list members to share their negative experiences. Seems there is a lot of info out there regarding the good things about chickens but not as many warnings about all the things that can go wrong, and the potential heartaches. I know I still have a lot to learn - only got my first chickens last fall.
Ruth in Wakefield
Andrew Gilmartin
When I started rearing chickens I really don't understand how dirty, dumb, and malicious they are.
Chris and I let our chickens free-range. This was an important aspect of having them. However, this does mean that we had less control over protecting them from predators and controlling their waste. You also have much less control over their diet and their diet is important for egg production.
Chickens, especially young chickens, flee from danger but don't have the skills to hide from danger. The young white chicken is very easy pray for the hawks. Once the hawk has found one meal it will return to look for others. The same for other predators: They always come back for more.
Chickens are fragile and succumb to all manger of environmental conditions. They die of dehydration when it is too hot. They don't seem to know to drink more water. We have not lost chickens to the cold, but I am sure others have.
Chickens are malicious. We joke about pecking order but it is not fun to see it in action. The big tufts of neck feathers pulled out and the screech of the peeked. Roosters will kill hens that are yet to start laying. I don't know why, but it happens.
Many mornings you will open the coop and find dead birds.
There is also the time when a chicken need to be killed. A mean rooster that needs to go has no where to go but to be killed. A sick little chick can suffer a slow death or you can make it quick. Unfortunately, you learn the hard way how to make it quick. A VERY sharp knife and a cutting surface is needed to get through the flesh, cartilage, and bone. And, yes, the first time you do this you encounter the rush of blood that the chicken's heart continues to pump out its neck.
All told, when we do this again I (because I can't speak for Chris):
* we will have only a handful of chickens;
* will only get hens even though the rooters are very beautiful and their call is lovely;
* they will be kept in the run most of the time and free range only a small part of the end of the day and perhaps not everyday;
* the coop will be only big enough for the hens we have so it can be more easily cleaned and sterilized;
* the coop and run will be naturally shaded so they can stay their all day if need be;
* we will make a clear decision as to whether the hens are for ornamentation or for eggs; I think it is very hard to reconcile and maintain for the needs of both.
Sue Desillier
Ruth
I started my flock with 4 hens and a rooster. I got 4 month old birds from a local free-range, mixed breed flock rather than pure-breed hatchery chicks, because I hoped birds raised by their mothers and living in a loose flock situation might have more predator smarts etc. I wanted my birds to day range because I was not looking to add a lot more time and responsibility to my routine. Also wanted birds that would find most if not all of their own food. Yes I am a lazy chicken keeper. 8'x8' coop and 5,000 sq feet to day range; only 5 birds. It seemed like it would be so simple.
It did turn out well insofar as the rooster keeps order in the flock, actually moving between 2 hens or calling one away if they start getting snippy. So I haven't had problems with the pecking order. He is excellent with the chicks. He also is a great protector, I witnessed him drive off a neighbor's cat and an adult red-tailed hawk. That's the good news.
What I did not anticipate is that all 4 hens would go broody at the same time, meaning I went from getting 4 eggs a day to zero. There was no breaking their broodiness. Even trying to fake them out with ceramic eggs did not work. I ended up ordering fertile eggs from non-setting breeds for the hens to hatch. I thought if I got eggs instead of day-old chicks, the chicks would learn proper chicken behaviour from their foster mothers but being from non-setting breeds would not try to hatch their own eggs next year, so I'd have my eating egg supply.
Hatch rate was abysmal; hamburg eggs hatched only 2 out of 12; 4 out of 12 Ameraucana and 7 of 12 Welsummer. So I had a lot of expense (fertile eggs are not cheap, no pun intended plus there's shipping and no guarantee how many eggs will hatch nor how many will be female). Meantime, I'm getting zero eggs for me this whole spring and summer.
Then, turns out chicks from hatchery lines, even reared with "smart" mothers in a natural situation, are missing some important instincts. They don't follow the mother as closely, pay less attention to her instructions, not as vigorous foragers, less active and just seem less motivated in general. This is 3 different breeds, mind you, from 3 different sources. Even the hens seem a bit frustrated. These chicks just want food and water put in front of them, they don't want to forage and they don't really pay close attention to the adult birds' communications. I've got some huge chicks 7 weeks old still following their mother around, waiting for her to present them with food. I've started to refer to them as free-loaders. I also lost 3 hatchery chicks to predators because they wandered too far away from the hen and/or did not respond promptly to the warning calls of the rooster and adult hens. My mutt chicks have a 100% survival rate. I try to look at it as natural selection in action but it's still distressing.
My feed expenses last fall and through winter were almost nil. I don't know what they were finding to eat outside, especially in the winter, but they literally ate almost no feed provided by me. The first 2 hatches of mutt chicks also foraged all their own food, learning from their mothers. Now with these hatchery chicks, during prime bug/plant growing season, I'm going through 25# commercial feed at least every 7-10 days. It's ridiculous. I even tried making feed unavailable from sundown until they'd had 2-3 hours foraging time in the morning, but those chicks wouldn't follow the hens to forage, would just stand around the henhouse peeping and of course the hens wouldn't leave them behind. What I've got is growing chicks which only want to stuff themselves at a food bowl, and then lounge around outside under the bushes the rest of the day.
So like you, Andrew, I think I have to make a choice. Seems like there's a definite nature/nurture thing going on here and I have to choose between consistant egg production from sweet but dumber, lazier birds with much higher feed requirements; or self-supporting smart birds which are not going to provide eggs as steadily because they insist on reproducing and I was unable to outmaneuver them in the family planning department. How pathetic is that, never mind are you smarter than a 5th grader, I am apparently not smarter than a bird brain.
The hatchery chicks are growing well, seem very healthy and no doubt would work out very well in a situation where they were in a more protected environment (enclosed run) where it wouldn't matter if they didn't have perfect chicken skill sets. Unfortunately, that's not the environment I have so my great plan didn't work out as expected. Good thing I enjoy watching the flock dynamics because I have invested much more money than I care to add up into these birds and I'm still having to buy eggs at the farmer's market.
Oh, and now the rooster has some weird skin rash which has baffled 2 avian specialist veterinarians. That's something else I didn't plan on, vet bills for semi-feral chickens, but he's a good bird so I sort of figure I owe him.
Ruth in Wakefield
Andrew Gilmartin
> Will you still be an organizer of the Coop Tour?
If folks would like another tour and want me to organize it then I would be happy to do so.
Andrew Gilmartin
> Oh, and now the rooster has some weird skin rash which has baffled 2 avian specialist veterinarians. That's something else I didn't plan on, vet bills for semi-feral chickens, but he's a good bird so I sort of figure I owe him.
LOL. We get very attached to our birds. Their plight becomes ours and, in my case, more often than not, I have no idea what to do. Chris is great at tracking down advice on the web and so I tend to abide by her discoveries. However, the collection of advice found is usually contradictory. You should always add vinegar to their water except when you shouldn't. A pale comb means the bird is sick except when that breed has pale combs. Etc. But this is why I created this little list: To give some local chicken rears some local advise. Thank you everyone for sharing.
Andrew Gilmartin
On Jul 28, 2010, at 9:18 PM, Ruth wrote:
> What I did not anticipate is that all 4 hens would go broody at the same time, meaning I went from getting 4 eggs a day to zero.
Our hens didn't get broody but the Rhode Island Reds started to molt within days of their becoming good egg layers. (They were about 1.5 years old at that time.) They didn't lay any more eggs for the several months it took for the molting to finish and the new feathers to grow in. (During this period we got to watch three very ugly sisters -- only a few tail feathers and patchy chests -- wondering around the yard grumbling to each other.) By the time they feathered out it was winter and they stopped laying altogether until spring.
The good news, however, was that they never stopped eating the ticks. Last year everyone spoke about the excessive number of ticks and yet we had far fewer ticks than normal. Our gauge was how many ticks our cats Autumn and Willow brought into the house each day. Autumn and Willow passed on last year and so this year Milo, our puppy, will have to take on their duties.
Ruth
Ruth in Wakefield
Ruth
> LOL. We get very attached to our birds. Their plight becomes ours and, in my case, more often than not, I have no idea what to do. Chris is great at tracking down advice on the web and so I tend to abide by her discoveries. However, the collection of advice found is usually contradictory. You should always add vinegar to their water except when you shouldn't. A pale comb means the bird is sick except when that breed has pale combs. Etc.
It's a maze out there for sure. How about when you think you've found consensus on a topic, but then realize all the websites are just cutting and pasting the same info so it's not agreement, just repetition.
I found a resounding silence on the topic of avian skin rashes. I'm thinking of applying some olive oil infused with soothing herbs to the area, hopefully he won't get nervous wondering why I'm basting him.
Ruth in Wakefield
Ruth
> Our hens didn't get broody but the Rhode Island Reds started to molt within days of their becoming good egg layers. (They were about 1.5 years old at that time.) They didn't lay any more eggs for the several months it took for the molting to finish and the new feathers to grow in. (During this period we got to watch three very ugly sisters -- only a few tail feathers and patchy chests -- wondering around the yard grumbling to each other.) By the time they feathered out it was winter and they stopped laying altogether until spring.
Oh. Molting. Something else to look forward to.
So this summer was a bust for me as far as eggs, but at least the pullets hatched this year should go into lay in the late fall and produce through the winter. Here's hoping.
Ruth in Wakefield
Lisa Allen
The tour was what finally motivated me to jump in. It wasn't the coops
I saw so much as the network of knowledgable people in the area that
led to this decision.
The only lesson I can share which I've never seen elsewhere is this.
No open toed shoes if you have painted toenails!
Regards,
Lisa
Ruth
> The only lesson I can share which I've never seen elsewhere is this. No open toed shoes if you have painted toenails!
That's funny! Tasty moving berries for the chickens!
Ruth in Wakefield
seleena rappa
My husband and I were at you place at the time of the Coop Tour in the Spring.
I was raised on a farm complete with chickens in Upstate NY . In the last few years I have wanted to have my own chickens- I wanted to get the childhood memory back of going to the coop, reaching under the chicken and pulling out a nice warm egg. I guess my dad would of have had all the not so nice memories. The only one I could think of was the weasels. Anyway - I haven't started yet - this year a pair of hawks made one of our trees their home and had a couple babies - so chickens in the yard was not a good idea. I have not given up the idea totally yet- but do thank you for giving me some more unfortunate things to consider.
Seleena
> Subject: [South County Coop Tour] Some of the bad chicken rearing lessons
> From: and...@andrewgilmartin.com
> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:19:40 -0400
> To: south-count...@googlegroups.com