Re: [sous-vide] Re: Killing Lobster

[Andrea Ossola]

Although boiling lobsters alive is one of the most common methods used by chefs, it may also be the cruelest (how would you like to be boiled alive?). In the journal Science, researcher Gordon Gunter described this method of killing lobsters as "unnecessary torture." As anyone who has ever boiled a lobster alive can attest, when dropped into scalding water, lobsters whip their bodies wildly and scrape the sides of the pot in a desperate attempt to escape, and they can take up to three minutes to die.

Many people believe that placing lobsters in cold water that is slowly brought to a boil causes the lobsters to lose consciousness before the water becomes uncomfortably hot. But lobsters killed by this method do struggle to escape as the water becomes hotter - for five to seven minutes. J.R. Baker decided to prove the obvious and tortured some animals in the name of science. He explained that as you would expect, as the temperature of the water rises, lobsters begin "shaking" and "trembling," and their entire bodies start to convulse.

Although the lobster industry has claimed that immersing lobsters in a concentrated saltwater solution (one part salt to three parts water) renders them unconscious, we don't know how they experience the salt water (it could be completely agonizing for them), and lobsters regain full consciousness again within 30 seconds of being removed from the salt water. Since it can take three minutes to kill lobsters in boiling water, as you would expect, when plunged into it, the lobsters struggle to escape.

Julia Child, who never met an animal she didn't want in her tummy, once claimed that a lobster "may be killed almost instantly just before cooking if you plunge the point of a knife into the head between the eyes or sever the spinal cord." Nonsense! Like some other animals, lobsters continue to feel pain even after they have been cut in half (like you would if someone cut your legs off). Dr. Jaren G. Horsley, an invertebrate zoologist, says, "The lobster does not have an autonomic nervous system that puts it into a state of shock when it is harmed. It probably feels itself being cut. ... I think the lobster is in a great deal of pain from being cut open ... [and] feels all the pain until its nervous system is destroyed." In other words, the lobster feels being cut in half much like you would, regardless of what Julia Child claims.

To read the description, this may well be the cruelest method of killing lobsters. Lobsters who are transferred from sea water to fresh water (unsalted tap water) flip wildly, assume unnatural postures, regurgitate food, and suffer from a painful swelling at their joints. According to J.R. Baker, "the lobster has no defence against the entry of fresh water through the gills. The hard external skeleton prevents any swelling of the body as a whole, and as a result the soft integument at the joints becomes distended outwards. ... It is almost as though one sought to anaesthetize a human being, encased in tight armour, by slow injection of fresh water into the blood stream." Capacity for pain See also: Angling#Capacity for pain The question of whether or not lobsters can experience pain is unresolved. Because of the ambiguous nature of suffering, most people who contend that lobsters do have this capacity approach the issue using 'argument by analogy' — that is, they hold that certain similarities between lobsters' and humans' biology or behavior warrant an assumption that lobsters can feel pain.[11] In February 2005, a review of the literature by the Norwegian Scientific Committee for Food Safety tentatively concluded that "it is unlikely that [lobsters] can feel pain," though they note that "there is apparently a paucity of exact knowledge on sentience in crustaceans, and more research is needed." This conclusion is based on the lobster's simple nervous system. The report assumes that the violent reaction of lobsters to boiling water is a reflex to noxious stimuli.[12] However, review by the Scottish animal rights group Advocate for Animals released in the same year reported that "scientific evidence ... strongly suggests that there is a potential for [lobsters] to experience pain and suffering," primarily because lobsters (and other decapod crustaceans) "have opioid receptors and respond to opioids (analgesics such as morphine) in a similar way to vertebrates," indicating that lobsters' reaction to injury changes when painkillers are applied. The similarities in lobsters' and vertebrates' stress systems and behavioral responses to noxious stimuli were given as additional evidence for their capacity for pain.[11] A 2007 study at Queen's University, Belfast, suggested that crustaceans do feel pain. Acetic acid was placed on the antennae of 144 prawns; the animals responded by rubbing the affected areas. Professor Robert Elwood, who headed the study, argues that sensing pain is crucial to the survival of all animals, because it encourages them to avoid damaging behaviors. Some scientists responded, saying the rubbing may reflect an attempt to clean the affected area.[13 Animal welfare issues The most common way of killing a lobster is by placing it, live, in boiling water, or by splitting: severing the body in half, lengthwise. The boiling method (also used to kill crayfish and shrimp) is controversial because some believe that the lobster suffers. The practice is illegal in some places, such as in Reggio Emilia, Italy, where offenders face fines of up to €495.[16] The Norwegian study states that the lobster may be de-sensitized by placing it in a salt solution 15 minutes before killing it. Some stores will kill a lobster upon purchase by microwaving it. Whether or not death occurs more quickly than when the lobster is dropped in boiling water is not clear. There are, however, locations where the sale of a dead lobster to be eaten is illegal, including Massachusetts.[17] In 2006, British inventor Simon Buckhaven invented the CrustaStun, which electrocutes lobsters with a 110 V electric shock, killing them in about five seconds. This ensures a quicker death for the lobster. Seafood wholesalers in Britain already use a commercial version. A home version measuring about 46 cm width and depth came into the retail market in late 2006 for about £2000.[18][19] Crustastun From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search The Crustastun is a device manufactured by a company in England. It is designed to administer a lethal electric shock to shellfish (such as lobsters, crabs, and crayfish) before cooking, to avoid boiling a live shellfish and causing it undue pain. The device works by applying a 110 volt, 2-5 amp electrical charge to a shellfish. The inventor of the device, Simon Buckhaven, worked for two years with scientists from the University of Bristol to develop the device, at an estimated cost of £2,000.

Andrea

-----sous...@googlegroups.com wrote: -----

To: Sous VIde <sous...@googlegroups.com>
From: Brad <stunni...@gmail.com>
Sent by: sous...@googlegroups.com
Date: 11/07/2008 10:37AM
Subject: [sous-vide] Re: Lobster Sous-Vide


I looked at some more recipes for lobster sous-vide after posting the
first post in this thread yesterday and was surprised to find that
many people were cooking the lobsters at much lower temperatures than
I did (between 115F and 120F instead of my 139.5F). Apparently they
got a very raw-like texture, much like lobster sushi which some people
really liked and others didn't. I tend to think lobster, like shrimp,
is better cooked through to bring out its sweetness, but I thought I'd
share just in case anyone wanted to try it.

When I dispatched my lobster I just cut the tail off while the thing
was still alive, but this proved to be bad idea as both halves of the
poor creature were still moving a full 10 minutes later. Sorry! I
think pouring boiling water over them and letting them steep for 2
minutes is the preferred way because it makes it easy to get the tail
meat out.

Anyone have any suggestions on what to do with the claws?

On Nov 6, 7:52 pm, Marc Nicholas <geekyth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Do you think a 12v car battery would work? ;) or maybe just run him  
> over with the car?
>
> I may also see if I can find some local tuna and experiment with that.  
> I would generally prefer good tuna raw, but the results might be  
> interesting....
>
> -marc
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 6-Nov-08, at 20:46, "Alejandro Trambauer" <atramba...@gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>
> > i kill them with a 100.000 volt shock, but if not i use a sharp  
> > knife into the top of the head, then all the way down halving the  
> > head.
>
> > 2008/11/6 Marc Nicholas <geekyth...@gmail.com>
>
> > Good timing on posting this!
>
> > I'm in Halifax, Nova Scotia for a few days and was planning on taking
> > some live lobster home.
>
> > Does anyone have a recomendation for the best way to kill a live
> > lobster for sous vide? Obviously, boiling water defeats the point ;)
>
> > -marc
>
> > Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 6-Nov-08, at 13:44, Brad <stunningt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Just thought I'd share that I cooked lobster tail sous-vide last  
> > night
> > > with good results. First I (clumsily) removed the tail meat from the
> > > shell. Then I vacuum packed it with a pat of butter, orange section,
> > > tiny slice of garlic, bit of chives, parsley, saffron, salt and
> > > pepper. Finally I poached it at 139.5F for 20 minutes as per Thomas
> > > Keller's recipe in "Under Pressure". Keller doesn't vacuum seal his
> > > tails, but rather uses a temperature controlled bath with a water-
> > > butter emulsion to poach them, but I think that's only because the  
> > NYC
> > > board of health asked him not to cook shellfish sous-vide. The  
> > results
> > > were really nice. The texture was not too different from a boiled
> > > lobster, maybe a bit more tender. The main difference was that I  
> > could
> > > taste the ocean salt water in the meat and a hint of seaweed. That  
> > the
> > > amount of butter and flavorings needed is very small is a big bonus
> > > with this method, but the biggest benefit in my opinion is that the
> > > method is relatively forgiving when it comes to cooking time. Anyone
> > > who has ever over- or under-boiled a lobster should appreciate that.
> > > I'll definitely always cook them sous-vide from now on.
>
> > --
> > _______________________________
> > Alejandro Trambauer

[methodlab]

honestly?! look if we ate spiders as well we could be as concerned
about "the proper methods of dispatching" instead of squashing them
under our feet but the truth is that lobsters are giant water bugs and
have tiny brains... brains that aren't developed or intelligent enough
to communicate to the rest of the body: "oh hey! we've been cut in
two! time to die now"... this is why they flail.

On Nov 9, 3:31 pm, Andrea Ossola <Andrea.Oss...@fourseasons.com>
wrote:
> Although boiling lobsters alive is one of the most common methods used by chefs, it may also be the cruelest (how would you like to be boiled alive?). In the journal Science, researcher Gordon Gunter described this method of killing lobsters as "unnecessary torture." As anyone who has ever boiled a lobster alive can attest, when dropped into scalding water, lobsters whip their bodies wildly and scrape the sides of the pot in a desperate attempt to escape, and they can take up to three minutes to die.Many people believe that placing lobsters in cold water that is slowly brought to a boil causes the lobsters to lose consciousness before the water becomes uncomfortably hot. But lobsters killed by this method do struggle to escape as the water becomes hotter - for five to seven minutes. J.R. Baker decided to prove the obvious and tortured some animals in the name of science. He explained that as you would expect, as the temperature of the water rises, lobsters begin "shaking" and "trembling," and their entire bodies start to convulse.Although the lobster industry has claimed that immersing lobsters in a concentrated saltwater solution (one part salt to three parts water) renders them unconscious, we don't know how they experience the salt water (it could be completely agonizing for them), and lobsters regain full consciousness again within 30 seconds of being removed from the salt water. Since it can take three minutes to kill lobsters in boiling water, as you would expect, when plunged into it, the lobsters struggle to escape.Julia Child, who never met an animal she didn't want in her tummy, once claimed that a lobster "may be killed almost instantly just before cooking if you plunge the point of a knife into the head between the eyes or sever the spinal cord." Nonsense! Like some other animals, lobsters continue to feel pain even after they have been cut in half (like you would if someone cut your legs off). Dr. Jaren G. Horsley, an invertebrate zoologist, says, "The lobster does not have an autonomic nervous system that puts it into a state of shock when it is harmed. It probably feels itself being cut. ... I think the lobster is in a great deal of pain from being cut open ... [and] feels all the pain until its nervous system is destroyed." In other words, the lobster feels being cut in half much like you would, regardless of what Julia Child claims.To read the description, this may well be the cruelest method of killing lobsters. Lobsters who are transferred from sea water to fresh water (unsalted tap water) flip wildly, assume unnatural postures, regurgitate food, and suffer from a painful swelling at their joints. According to J.R. Baker, "the lobster has no defence against the entry of fresh water through the gills. The hard external skeleton prevents any swelling of the body as a whole, and as a result the soft integument at the joints becomes distended outwards. ... It is almost as though one sought to anaesthetize a human being, encased in tight armour, by slow injection of fresh water into the blood stream."Capacity for painSee also:Angling#Capacity for pain

>
> The question of whether or not lobsters can experience pain is unresolved. Because of the ambiguous nature of suffering, most people who contend that lobsters do have this capacity approach the issue using 'argument by analogy' — that is, they hold that certain similarities between lobsters' and humans' biology or behavior warrant an assumption that lobsters can feel pain.[11]
>
> In February 2005, a review of the literature by the Norwegian Scientific Committee for Food Safety tentatively concluded that "it is unlikely that [lobsters] can feel pain," though they note that "there is apparently a paucity of exact knowledge on sentience in crustaceans, and more research is needed." This conclusion is based on the lobster's simple nervous system. The report assumes that the violent reaction of lobsters to boiling water is a reflex to noxious stimuli.[12]
>

> However, review by the Scottishanimal rightsgroupAdvocate for Animalsreleased in the same year reported that "scientific evidence ... strongly suggests that there is a potential for [lobsters] to experience pain and suffering," primarily because lobsters (and other decapod crustaceans) "have opioid receptors and respond to opioids (analgesics such as morphine) in a similar way to vertebrates," indicating that lobsters' reaction to injury changes when painkillers are applied. The similarities in lobsters' and vertebrates' stress systems and behavioral responses to noxious stimuli were given as additional evidence for their capacity for pain.[11]
>
> A 2007 study at Queen's University, Belfast, suggested that crustaceans do feel pain. Acetic acid was placed on the antennae of 144 prawns; the animals responded by rubbing the affected areas. Professor Robert Elwood, who headed the study, argues that sensing pain is crucial to the survival of all animals, because it encourages them to avoid damaging behaviors. Some scientists responded, saying the rubbing may reflect an attempt to clean the affected area.[13Animal welfare issues

>
> The most common way of killing a lobster is by placing it, live, in boiling water, or by splitting: severing the body in half, lengthwise.
>

> The boiling method (also used to kill crayfish and shrimp) is controversial because some believe that the lobster suffers. The practice is illegal in some places, such as inReggio Emilia, Italy, where offenders face fines of up to€495.[16]The Norwegian study states that the lobster may be de-sensitized by placing it in a salt solution 15 minutes before killing it.
>
> Some stores will kill a lobster upon purchase by microwaving it. Whether or not death occurs more quickly than when the lobster is dropped in boiling water is not clear. There are, however, locations where the sale of a dead lobster to be eaten is illegal, includingMassachusetts.[17]
>
> In 2006, British inventor Simon Buckhaven invented theCrustaStun, which electrocutes lobsters with a 110 Velectric shock, killing them in about five seconds. This ensures a quicker death for the lobster. Seafood wholesalers in Britain already use a commercial version. A home version measuring about 46 cm width and depth came into the retail market in late 2006 for about£2000.[18][19]CrustastunFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to:navigation,search
>
>
>
> TheCrustastunis a device manufactured by a company inEngland. It is designed to administer a lethal electric shock toshellfish(such as lobsters, crabs, and crayfish) before cooking, to avoid boiling a live shellfish and causing it undue pain. The device works by applying a 110 volt, 2-5 amp electrical charge to ashellfish.
>
> The inventor of the device, Simon Buckhaven, worked for two years with scientists from theUniversity of Bristolto develop the device, at an estimated cost of £2,000.Andrea
>
> -----sous...@googlegroups.com wrote: -----To: Sous VIde <sous...@googlegroups.com>