Locked files

[tito fleita]

Hi im going to post this against the outdated locked files feature.

What is the purpose of this nowadays.. i use soulseek since 2004, i undertstand that this  was a leecher stopper when introduced, but today.. theres much more bandwidth and this allows to very dark behaviours like trading.

I mean, what is the purpose of a sharing software that allows a user to just only put a file like in a storewindow ??
what if i cant buy the track and my only chance is to download by soulseek, i have to put down on my knees and pray to the user to download, luckyly enough she/he will tell me if i have something interesting to trade, falling into a black hole..

Just to think about it.

[Nir Arbel]

Originally I implemented locked files because there were users that would literally just manually ban a lot of users who were trying to download from them because they weren't sharing, or they weren't sharing enough or some other personal reason, and I figured it might be better to just give uploaders who do that the ability to lock their files and cut down on what might be perceived by downloaders as abusive or at least unfriendly behavior. I will admit that I'm a little worried that too many people will end up using that feature. In most searches that I'm personally running locked files make up for a relatively small percentage of the results I'm getting, but I know it depends on what you search for and the situation may be different for other users. At this point there's pretty much only one effective thing I can do, which is to turn off the "show privately shared files in search results" by default when the user installs the client. This is will prevent them (and anyone else who manually turns it off) from having to deal with locked files, but it'll also reduce the number of results they see and deny them the choice of trying to reach out to the user with the locked files and ask for access, and of course it won't magically get the users locking their files to unlock them. They'll still be able to see locked files if the browse the user's share, so the feature won't become entirely useless. As a long term strategy it may very well be better because it will create an environment where users are sharing their files freely the way they used to originally. It's something I'm actively thinking about.

[Nick Polak]

I'd be very curious to know exacly what it is you're looking for, in terms of files. I have the "show privaytely shared files" option turned off, but have had very little difficulty finding pretty much everything I'm looking for. Back when I was seeing all the results, including locked files, I rarely saw a time when the ONLY person with the files was locking them, and when that happened, I almost invariably got access by messaging them.

Yes: there are unscrupulous users 'hoarding' files, but I get MUCH more perturbed at the people who are not sharing anything. What I'd really like to see is an option to prevent users with a zero share from downloading from me at all, or the ability to throttle their downloads so that they are not using as much of my bandwidth, or the ability to limit them to one download per enforcement cycle (as determined by me, the sharer). I already send an auto-text to anyone grabbing from me who has a zero share. About 1-2% of these get replies from people who need help sharing, are just starting out and have nothing to share yet, or with another legitimate excuse. The other 98% are just grabbing and running. These are the same people who do not re-seed bittorrents, and are beyond redemption AFAIC. I'd like to be able to block THEM entirely - they are a bigger threat to thehobby than locked files - which at least have a chance at access.

My .02, having been a Soulseek user since the 'old days'. YMM, of course, V.

nick_in_mersey3

On Tuesday 16 January 2024 at 18:21:32 UTC GUERRERO wrote:

Soulseek has become an awfull place where people will lock their files and leech other people's files, denying access to a lot of good tracks people are searching for.

It goes completely against what it should be.

I've been denied access by users so many times i lost count, people that are only "trading" tracks i'm searching for.

It makes no sense! delete file locking!

[Erik Jansen]

Please remove the locked files feature. I understand the original idea but it is absolutely terrible in practice. It just creates a possibility for people to leech without sharing in return and the number of people doing exactly that is getting bigger and bigger. 

[Erik Jansen]

Getting a number of cry mails from soulseek users that claim "they leave soulseek" forever if the locked files feature is removed. This is what we want. Please remove the feature so the leeches go away. 

[nur...@gmail.com]

Not that my vote means anything, but id vote for that too. No need for true leeches

[Brian Foster]

Yes soulseek!  Get rid of locked files!  It is foolish and unethical that you are allowing people to profit from already "stolen" music by asking for money or other things in return.  The community is about sharing so nothing should be locked!  Please do the right thing and remove locking of files!

[Brooks Elford]

Yes, get rid of locked files.  I'll tell you my experience - I like looking for CD singles or Vinyl Singles, particularly Rap music.  I can find lots of them, but the users who have lots in their library, who have clearly downloaded these from others in the past as they are mostly "Scene" releases, have "Locked" libraries.  There are a few I have messaged who I would like to browse their libraries and download a few things but ask me "What file/folder do you want" and proceed to only let me have that folder and then that's it.  I tell them I'd like to browse their stuff and download some more and I've received responses such as "I don't add users to my download list or "I don't do that".  Like, seriously?  You profited off others in building your library but then you refuse to let others download from you?  I have searched for things and come across the same users multiple times and each time having to ask if I can download whatever.  Then get cut off after that.  It's annoying.  If you're not going to share then don't come on Soulseek!  I don't have any locked files, yet I've had people ask for permission to download things because in the past they've been burnt by others.  I said, of course!  Take what you want, that's what we're here for!  You can limit how many people can download at once from you, if you're worried about your internet "slowing down" I don't think that's a concern anymore with 1 GBPS Internet, we're not on dial-up here anymore.  If you're not going to share, go somewhere else!  I have around 40,000 files (about 600GB) being shared and I don't care who takes what.  I downloaded from others so I'm sharing the wealth, it's only fair.

[Malik Jefferson]

tell them and cdm-addicted

[Lucas Masek]

CDM-addicted has some extremely rare stuff that i'll never get to see unless i pay for it... ugh

[Brooks Elford]

So is this CDM-addicted a Soulseek User? If so I am trying to add them to my Soulseek and getting "User not found".  And charging money you say?  That's pretty illegal considering they downloaded that from others.

[nur...@gmail.com]

Well, technically, collecting the copyrighted files without paying is illegal in the first place, in most parts of the world.  But, that said we don't care about that. ( and many of us, still compensate the artists when possible )   But, charging the community for said files, ya, that's really uncool and deserves to be blacklisted.

Not sure you can search for a user if they are off-line?  Or does that actually search the user DB out on the server? I don't have any names to try.. 

[Lucas Masek]

user is CDM-Addicted yes. I will now specify that if you don't have stuff to trade then he will accept money instead. I have bought some rare scissor sisters stuff from him from a price he chose.

[Nick Polak]

Then you and they are exhibiting the kind of behaviour and lack of ethics which will inevitably, I fear, shut this platform down.

Both of you should be banned.

[nur...@gmail.com]

I donno, as long as the majority of us are freely sharing, it should continue, and slowly those true leechers will be banned out of existence. Now if it proliferates before then and becomes well known off the platform, we may run into ISP blockage issues at some point to have to work around. ( getting around the issue of a single point of failure would be one advantage of moving to a distributed back end, instead of a single server. But i do understand why it is that way )

[Jacob Shakur]

No, this feature should not be removed. I personally use it and I use it for the exact reason that Nir mentioned years ago. If I don't lock my files, I get random people with nothing shared downloading things all day. I am not your free leech server. I've seen enough people with nothing shared, absolute garbage shared, single empty folder shared, etc., that I now use this. Policing uploads all day because of these people is not feasible. You guys want to complain about something, complain about these people who actively and knowingly contribute nothing. They are the reason people lock their files. I feel bad about the people who are general contributors and can't download without asking to be on my list. But this is the only truly effective way to deal with the aforementioned. 

Now, I understand that there are also pretentious people who abuse this feature. I've dealt with them myself. They think you either need to have something they want or provide some other form of compensation before you get on their exclusive list. There are also people who somehow have their upload slots set to 0, or their upload speed set ridiculously slow. Removing locked files is not an appropriate solution for anything. They'll just use one of these other things or figure out something else. If locked files are removed and there are people who REALLY don't want to share things, they're just going to make their shares completely private, close Soulseek all the time, just not share at all, etc. Basically, it wouldn't solve anything. 

Again, my largest issue is all the people sharing nothing (or virtually nothing/trash). Try addressing that issue and maybe the locked files issue will be improved. 

People always think things have such simple solutions "I see locked files; I don't like locked files; locked files should be removed" when it's often not so simple.

[Dàwéi Hēiér]

I'll shime in here... I hide files from people not in my list because MPAA, RCAA, etc are making DMCA requests against users sharing some particular files and I only keep a few subset of them unlocked .   When I download from someone, I automatically add them (when I don't forget) so they can see all my files.   Then they can see all my files except the ones I moved in another folder due to DMCA take down notice but that being said, sometimes I get banned because people read my info and are like (screw you) or ban me for whatever reasons.    I do share close to 1M files and it takes a while to browse me so perhaps their patience is too short but that's the least of my concern once I'm banned, I no longer see their files .    The day this feature disappear, all my files will be hidden !!! :)

[87]

it's what i was saying in my last post , it allow some users to just make a leak business and only sell files , locking all their collection and reaching any person who try to DL it by sending them a message asking for a payment in exchange of unlocking the file .. ( i experienced this yesterday , see my post ) 
So apparently this is absolutely not the original purpose of this feature , but having it allow this kind of behavior , what is frankly bad ( see this is leak selling, making profit on stolen files from artists , and opposite of "sharing" ) 

[Glen MacNab]

I used to share all my files and then began looking into who downloads and how many files they share. I was shocked to find that there was a large number who downloaded from me but shared nothing. I then put most of my files in private with 25,000 or so shares free to download. I always had a buddy list of users I downloaded from and allowed access to my private files to my buddies. In my user info, I have a message asking users that share and want access to my private files to send me a message and I add them to my buddy list. THis seems to work well.

However, I still find users who download my freely shared files and share nothing themselves. When that happens I ban them. This is supposed to be a file sharing platform and if that behaviour continues, pretty soon there will be no files shared. I know many users who shared a lot of files have left the platform due to the leeching.

If anyone has designed a true leech detector that can stop leeches downloading, I'd be interested in trying that out. If that worked, I would happily share all my files again. Leeches are the problem and is the reason many users are leaving.

[bitesh]

I don't see the leechers as a problem. I see legit reasons for not being able to share much or at all, not to mention bugs and other issues that might make it seem like you're not sharing at a given time, when you would otherwise be sharing.

With good enough internet and 5 slots, I rarely have them all filled. Leechers don't get a lot of files anyway, and u always have the option to limit consecutive uploads. Either way, I lose literally nothing to leechers.

I see a much bigger problem with gatekeepers.

[nur...@gmail.com]

Yes. gate keepers trying to make a profit are far worse, but if we end up with too many leechers, the end result is the same.  And sure, we all have to start somewhere, and the honest ones may have nothing at first, but in today's world, that is a bit odd.

[Greg Stahl]

I have not run into too many locked files, though I generally am searching for rare songs from just a couple of artists in particular.

I ran into one user geo-restricting their uploads (to Canada), which is really messed up imo.

But my biggest issue lately is getting stuck in queue to download, position never changing, and no the files aren't private.

My usual solution to being stuck in queue is find the files from another user and hope the downloads start, not always a solution..

I'm sharing over 7000 files, had my apt not been burglarized years ago it'd be over 20-25k files-

I don't even require users to have anything, clearly ik what it's like to have to start from scratch..

Hoping the next update comes soon, I love SoulSeek when it works. But Gatekeeping is BS & getting stuck in queues is so damn depressing.

There's also the fact that people can also use Nicotine+ and that has features SoulSeek does not (which I haven't fully explored the settings of),

they both run on the same network and should work with each other no problem but I can't help wondering if something is preventing syncing between users

connecting between the two applications..

[bitesh]

Yeah, not only Nicotine+(which I'm using) but also slskd. I've been seing a non-negligible number of users stuck on my upload queue, "getting status" indefinitely, and a good portion of them advertise being slskd users on their profile. I hope it's just them not configuring their shit correctly (so I don't have to do anything). But I also wonder...

[Greg Stahl]

I just came across slskd and tried to configure it a couple times- unsuccessfully. It would be nice if there were a small text file instructing users how to do it properly.

I checked and found the user I'm trying to download around 30 songs from has over 400 uploads queued and 8 free upload slots but nothing moving on their end.

I sent them a message letting them know that if they haven't- updating to the latest SoulSeek version (2024-6-30) should resolve the issue.

Anyone using version 2024-2-1 is probably going to have their uploads queues back up due to that bug.

[Greg Stahl]

So, I ended up reaching out with a simple message letting the user know their uploads were jammed and that it's a known bug that has been fixed with the (2024-6-30) update and seems like they updated and it fixed it, everything I was waiting on was downloaded yesterday evening. Seems like not all users may be running on the latest update. I was reluctant to reach out, but glad I did. I would recommend doing the same and hopefully we'll all reach parity running the latest client version before too long. :)