Multi bus

[Hans Leeuw]

Hi Jesse,

Maybe I do not understand correctly but reading this:

* Added support in the plugin versions for multi-bus output, to allow
individual connected users to be routed independently

I hoped that meant that it would be possible to select output channels for the different users in a vst~ instance (like for instance user 1 to outputs 1 2, user 2 to output channels 3 4 etcetera), but I can't seem to find a way to do it.

My students are very enthusiastic about sonobus as well by the way.

Best, Hans.

[Jesse Chappell]

Yes, this is what the feature does. You need to use the VST3, AU or AAX version of the plugin, because I chose to not include the feature in the VST2 version because OBS (a useful and popular host that only supports VST2 in its main version) currently crashes when trying to load a multi-bus plugin. 

What platform and plugin host are you using?

The way to access sidechain outputs is different in every one. 

Jesse

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[Hans Leeuw]

Hi Jesse,

Thanks for the quick reply. I (and my students) are using both Windows and Mac and multiple DAW's. Currently I am trying to sort it out in MAX (cycling74) on both Windows 10 and OSX 10.14.6 (Mojave).

Best, Hans.

Op zaterdag 5 december 2020 om 01:49:13 UTC+1 schreef jesse:

[Hans Leeuw]

Within MAX I can adjust the number of output channels that are generated as a parameter of the vst~. All output comes from channel 1 and 2 though.

Op zaterdag 5 december 2020 om 02:01:33 UTC+1 schreef Hans Leeuw:

[Hans Leeuw]

Hi Jesse,

I see some options in Reaper that I don't see in MAX:

https://we.tl/t-3XlQjxaDX6

Does that channel strip have a name? Maybe it is an option that I have to unlock in MAX or if it does not exist ask for it with the developers.

Best, Hans.

Op zaterdag 5 december 2020 om 02:05:02 UTC+1 schreef Hans Leeuw:

[Hans Leeuw]

The multi channel works after all. I missed that the first two channels are still the mix and that the outputs of the respective players start from channel 3 upward. I guess that the matrix mixing is just a feature that Reaper offers to any plug-in. Sorry to have bothered you.

Best, Hans.

Op maandag 7 december 2020 om 11:24:56 UTC+1 schreef Hans Leeuw:

[Jesse Chappell]

The main output bus is the full mix, the 2nd output bus is self-only,
and the 3rd and up output bus are other connected users. Each bus is
usually stereo.

Jesse

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[Hans Leeuw]

Yes, I figured that out. Reaper put me on the wrong foot. But actually it also helped me figure out the channel assignment as the channel strip in reaper shows it. Thanks for the good work. I also posted in another thread about messages through Sonobus and specifically talkback (which is probably better to implement in sonobus itself).

Op woensdag 9 december 2020 om 00:39:37 UTC+1 schreef jesse:

[Jesse Chappell]

You can basically do talkback individually already in SonoBus, by selectively enabling sending to individuals, while the main send mute is enabled. It’s not quick and easy...

Jesse

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[Hans Leeuw]

Yes, but then it would help to also have the opportunity to send messages remotely through the app so you can select the channel that you want to talk to remotely through the app. How is ordering of the channels actually determined? I guess order of connecting?

Op woensdag 9 december 2020 om 00:50:57 UTC+1 schreef jesse:

[Jason Buecker]

Hello !

I am also interested in this but cannot figure this out... I am using Logic Pro, with AU Plugin.... I can connect, but cannot figure out how to route specific players into specific channels..   Also I cant wait to see multichannel support!... Thanks So much!

~JB

[Jesse Chappell]

Yeah, I'm having issues getting Logic to recognize the multi-bus
outputs when using the AU plugin there. Ironically, other applications
can recognize them just fine. I'll let you know when I hit on the
right solution in an update.

Jesse

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[Chris B]

is there any writeup available on multibus?.. testing with both reaper and sonar/carkewalk - but not sure where to install plugin or how to access multiple tracks. I'd like to be able to send multiple tracks from a session at a local DAW and split out on a remote  DAW. I have this many vst instances...  - is there another way?

Thanks,

Chris

[Jesse Chappell]

There is a tutorial video that shows how it works in ProTools:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLExqULjoZ4GvPFPCIvH2ST68ZOXNRoCWy

And I also just made a Reaper example session:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/io4yax7i43ubbqp/reapersonobusmultiexample.rpp?dl=1
The trick in Reaper is setting up the plugin's pin connector. Then
using receive and sends when routing between tracks.

As for sending multiple independent tracks through SonoBus, your best
bet there is to have multiple SonoBus instances, which are used for
sending only, using the same connect group. You'll want to mute the
receiving side within those instance of sonobus because you only want
to receive things once.

There are so many ways to do it!

Jesse

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[Chris B]

thank you, I'll give it a shot

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 5:35 PM Chris B <chrisb...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Chris B]

Jesse,

Did some testing yesterday. We're trying to proof out using sonobus to remotely cabture a tracking session -- even if it means we are only capturing tracks that will be replaced later with daw data local to the tracking session.  SO, its just a local and remote daw with sonobus in between. 

Started to notice that the individual tracks were not in sync with each other -- they all seemed to have differing delays, and reflect this when looking at each tracks buffering information. The setup was done using individual sonobus sessions in a single group and separate groups. We tried rolling back quality to see if relieving congestion helped, but it didn't -- and I was not able to look closely at the remote network stats to further diagnose. Is there a better/best way to do this to keep all of the tracks sent over sonobus togtether?

Thank You,

Chris

[Jesse Chappell]

This is the nature of the beast right, sorry that wasn’t made clear up front. The latency of incoming tracks from different locations is variable due to internet conditions and the receive jitter buffer size the connection needs. Currently there isn’t a mechanism in SonoBus to time align based on absolute timestamps of the produced data because it wasn’t clear how useful that would be given the activities of the producers at their source.

If you limited the usage to providing a backing track playback from the recording DAW side, that the remote users reference as they receive it and play along with it, while their input is sent back to the recording DAW, only then would we have enough information to possibly automatically adjust the latencies so the recorded tracks lined up with each other. 

Can you describe the workflow you want and if it similar to what I describe above? In the meantime you will need to shift tracks by hand. Perhaps I can add a feature that puts a small “blip” of the original source backing track into the returned signal to help with such a manual alignment. 

Jesse

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[Chris B]

Thanks Jessie -- this should be copied to the list now..

We're sending the tracks that we're recording + the guide track to the remote production team's DAW.

The remote DAW at this point is Bandlab Cakewalk - which runs the vst just fine, but I'm not aware that it can do multi channel inputs.

I think you clarified what I was looking for - if the multichannel mode was indeed a multichannel stream -- at least in the sense that the tracks would arrive in sync.

What we may do is just run reaper on both ends - then we can either just export to the producer's choice of DAW when we are finished tracking -- or leverage rearoute to pipe things into cakewalk. 

  

On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 2:57 PM Jesse Chappell <je...@sonosaurus.com> wrote:

I noticed this reply was to me only and not the list, was that
intentional? If not, you can reply to this message to the list as
well...

So it sounds like you want to send many tracks from the "local DAW" to
a remote one, not just the new ones being actively recorded...
including any backing tracks individually? Since all the tracks share
a common timebase (eg coming from one place, and not several) it might
be possible to come up with a way to synchronize them on the remote
end even though you are using multiple instances of the SonoBus plugin
(1 on each track you want to send remotely)... will have to consider
that.  Another possible solution would be to add multichannel inputs
as an option so you could route all of the inputs you want into a
single instance of plugin, which would then be sent together in
perfect sync over the network to the destination. I think the latter
would be the ideal way to do it from both yours and my perspective
assuming your DAW of choice is flexible enough to accommodate it. What
DAW are you using?

Jesse

On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 2:44 PM Chris B <chrisb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Use case is for remote tracking. We have a local DAW capturing a musician, but also would like  the multitrack output to remote DAW for the remote production/engineering team to Q/A and support. The remote DAW would capture in whatever format works best and gives enough to start project build, even if it's just giving a placeholder for the locally captured data to be dropped following the session. Any guide tracks are sent from the local DAW so the musician is not monitoring and recording back and forth over the latency barrier.

[Jesse Chappell]

The multi-channel input feature (>2) is a future update... so I’m trying to get all the use cases planned for before I implement it. 

The plugin already supports multi-bus output so all the remote senders can come out of a single plugin with those outputs routed independently, but they are not time synced in any automatic way, since everything can be coming from different places. 

I haven’t tested in cakewalk, but I know Reaper can handle pretty much anything....

Jesse

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