Slat alignment

[Ozheliguy]

Hi all,

Well, I've learned something today.
I was WRONG in one of my earlier posts about attaching photo sensors
directly to slats. Now I see why that question was being asked! I have
some other possible solutions but I will work out if it is possible
first before breaking into print in the discussion group. I drew some
pictures to look at the situation, not having looked at these issues
before opening my mouth. Apart from learning that I'm not as smart as
I think I am, some other crazy thoughts came into my head.

I havent heard of this being done before but is it possible to just
drive the slats to a sensor in the collector? Either sensing the max
temperature or max light intensity?

One other thing I did find from my diagrams was that the different
slats move the same amount, although through different arcs. This made
me think that it is more likely to be possible to drive all the slats
through a single actuator and one common rail link. Does anybody know
why this wasnt successful previously? If it was done connecting the
slats together in series like a daisy chain, the slop in the linkages
would be compounded. Of course I am just speculating here about
possibilities, without having the facts in front of me. If this was
the case connecting them in parallel, so to speak, with one common
linkage would give far more accuracy.

Cheers,

Milton.

[Marcin Jakubowski]

On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 6:59 PM, Ozheliguy <miltf...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

Well, I've learned something today.
I was WRONG in one of my earlier posts about attaching photo sensors
directly to slats. Now I see why that question was being asked! I have
some other possible solutions but I will work out if it is possible
first before breaking into print in the discussion group. I drew some
pictures to look at the situation, not having looked at these issues
before opening my mouth. Apart from learning that I'm not as smart as
I think I am, some other crazy thoughts came into my head.

I havent heard of this being done before but is it possible to just
drive the slats to a sensor in the collector? Either sensing the max
temperature or max light intensity?

One other thing I did find from my diagrams was that the different
slats move the same amount, although through different arcs. This made
me think that it is more likely to be possible to drive all the slats
through a single actuator and one common rail link. Does anybody know
why this wasnt successful previously?

The UK team told me that the level of precision needed is very high. You can convince yourself that the angular accuracy needed is on the scale of milliradians - when you consider slat dimensions and distances to the collector. Once you convince yourself of this, the limits of mechanical linkage may become apparent.

The UK team quit communications with me after they recognized that we are are an open source project, so I have no way to follow up with them. As such, the points above are merely anecdotal.

Marcin

If it was done connecting the
slats together in series like a daisy chain, the slop in the linkages
would be compounded. Of course I am just speculating here about
possibilities, without having the facts in front of me. If this was
the case connecting them in parallel, so to speak, with one common
linkage would give far more accuracy.

Cheers,

Milton.

--
To post to this group, send email to solar-...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
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See http://openfarmtech.org/index.php?title=Solar_Power_Generator_Distillation_Transcript

--
--------------------------------------------------
Marcin Jakubowski, Ph.D.
Open Source Ecology
http://openfarmtech.org/weblog
http://www.replab.org
opensourceecology at gmail dot com
Skype: marcin_ose
--------------------------------------------------

Nobody said that building the world's first open source village would be easy.

-- Anonymous, 2009

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

-- Robert A. Heinlein

NOTICE: All discussion in this communication is in the public domain, unless otherwise noted. If you are sharing proprietary, confidential, or otherwise privileged information, you must make that explicit. Otherwise, this discussion may be copied, republished, and otherwise used in the public domain - respectfully and with proper attribution. Furthermore, please consider that we are not interested in discussion as much as action. Therefore, we are particularly interested in discussion of ideas that both parties can commit to by acting on them.

[Ozheliguy]

Hi all,

Firstly this is not the first collector designed, or indeed working?
How have the others done this. Anyone know how this is acheived
currently?

I have another crazy idea. Oh no not this fool again, I hear you all
say. Seriously though What I realised, which I guess is obvious to
most people, is that the angle from the centre of any given mirror
slat to the centre of the collector is always the same. My diagram
from the limited info I have has the slat closest to the collector is
around 45 degs elevation angle above the horizon. The Furthest slat
appears to have an angle of around 21.8 degs direct path to the
collector. Possibly not accurate but the point is whatever it is it
wont change- as long as the structure supporting the mirrors and
collector is rigid enough. We can certainly calculate it easily enough
later on the physical structure. Anyway if we mount our sensor/s
RIGIDLY on that same path from the collector to the the slat pointing
at the slat. That way it would search for a reflected image of the sun
when the slat is pointing the relection directly at the collector.

I can however see some problem with this idea- I'm sure the rest of
you can think of many more. Anyway the design of the collector slat
frame is such that any sun elevation higher than our 21.8 degs the
collector will shade the furthest slat, then slats progressively
closer in as the sun gets higher. When the sun elevation is 45 +
degrees it is higher than the collector to shine on the closest slat.
The same will happen in the after noon as the sun angle decends
through 45- 21.8 degs. This of course is dependant on the geograph
latitude and time of the year as to the sun angles. Ie at the winter
solstice at 45+ deg latitude the sun will not rise above 22 degs so no
slat will be shaded that day. You guys get the idea.

Two possible solutions to the slats being shaded ie the sensor cant
track the sun when it is hidden behind the collector.

1. We could have an 'extension' of the slat/s beyond the collector.
This would be non productive mirror real estate for heat generation it
would be purely for aiming puposes. Individual sensors could be used.

2. Similar idea, but I think more practical, have another referernce/
aiming/ calibration, slave mirror (call it what you like) connected to
and moving in sync with the other slats. I would place this mirror
slat directly, or within 5 degs under the collector, The sensor, one
only- (could have more for redundancy), could be mounted on the
support frame for the collector pointing down toward the 'reference'
slat. The sensor, which would not move, adding to it's reliability. It
would also be in a very convenient location to access for maintenance,
as well as close to my proposed rotational control actuator. It
mounting would also have to incorporate a means to adjust it's
position to aim it properly. This 'reference' slat could actually be
used productively as heat generator. The max sun elevation anywhere,
anytime (ie tropical, summer at noon) I think is around 85 degs.

This also begs the question of the collector designed position.
Perhaps we should consider having less distance horizontally between
the first slat and the collector. I believe the current design is to
have the closest slat 10 horizontal feet from the collector. I'm sure
there are reasons for this but it seems like 10 feet of unutilized
real estate. I'm all for the maximisation of utilization of precious
space. More compact might mean this unit can be used in more
locations. I cant see how the problem of the collector shading some
slats some of the time can be avoided with this design. It is just an
acceptable compromise. May be some of you guys have an answer?

I also tend to think the UK project having a 'pre programmed' control
circuit to at least position the slats into at least the right general
area is a good idea. For example at night.

I look forward to your replies,

Thanks,

Milton.

[Ozheliguy]

Hi all,

well I can hear all the guys laughing out there. I have just spent my
time inventing this new round device. Then I found an earlier
'similar' device some has called a wheel- doh! I am still trying to
find and look through the material on this subject. I have just found
a diagram http://openfarmtech.org/images/f/f3/Tracking.jpg which is
what I was describing in my previous post. At least this might tend to
indicate I am not completely crazy after all- just a little slow.

Well it was fun anyway.

Thanks,

Milton.

[Rick Thomas]

If you are into turbines, have you seen
http://www.phoenixnavigation.com/ptbc/index.html ?

Rick

Hi all,

Thanks,

Milton.

--

[Rick Thomas]

A resource for anybody thinking about using steam.

http://www.spiraxsarco.com/resources/steam-engineering-tutorials.asp

The book contents and the tutorials are the same but the book is easier to
read.

Rick

[...]

There was something called the Huge Unified Array or something like that.  I dont remember its name. I've seen other webpages and things too.  it can be done I am sure with precise gearing.

(worm gears?)
...

[Ozheliguy]

Yep, thanks,

already been there, on their mailing list etc. I am indeed quite
interested in their stuff. Like a lot of things on the net it is hard
to sort the chaff from the hay. I was interested when I learnt that
this project was not going down that path. Finding completed,
funtioning well, verifyable information on a lot of these things is
usually not easy and thin on the ground. Which is why I am here
talking to people like yourself that are out there fighting the same
battle. But that is all part of the excitment of going into uncharted
waters.

Thanks,

Milton.

On 26 fev, 13:11, "Rick Thomas" <r...@wirecomms.com> wrote:
> If you are into turbines, have you seenhttp://www.phoenixnavigation.com/ptbc/index.html?
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: solar-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:solar-...@googlegroups.com]
>
> On Behalf Of Ozheliguy
> Sent: 26 February 2010 14:07
> To: Solar Turbine
> Subject: [Solar Turbine] Re: Slat alignment
>
> Hi all,
>
> well I can hear all the guys laughing out there. I have just spent my
> time inventing this new round device. Then I found an earlier
> 'similar' device some has called a wheel- doh! I am still trying to
> find and look through the material on this subject. I have just found

> a diagramhttp://openfarmtech.org/images/f/f3/Tracking.jpgwhich is

> Seehttp://openfarmtech.org/index.php?title=Solar_Power_Generator_Distill...
> ranscript- Ocultar texto das mensagens anteriores -
>
> - Mostrar texto das mensagens anteriores -

[Ozheliguy]

Hey Rick thanks again,

no havent been to their site before. They look quite good. I will look
a bit more. Another project I am working on perhaps you know something
about it? "Steam jet ejector vacuum chilling"?

Thanks,

Milton.

[Ozheliguy]

That wasnt very open minded or sharing spirited of them was it. I'm
sure they will be happy to receive when this project has acheived
something that could make their system work better.

On 25 fev, 23:39, Marcin Jakubowski <joseph.dolit...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >http://openfarmtech.org/index.php?title=Solar_Power_Generator_Distill...

>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------
> Marcin Jakubowski, Ph.D.

> Open Source Ecologyhttp://openfarmtech.org/webloghttp://www.replab.org

> opensourceecology at gmail dot com
> Skype: marcin_ose
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> Nobody said that building the world's first open source village would be
> easy.
>
> -- Anonymous, 2009
>
> A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a
> hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build
> a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate,
> act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
> computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
> Specialization is for insects.
>
> -- Robert A. Heinlein
>
> NOTICE: All discussion in this communication is in the public domain, unless
> otherwise noted. If you are sharing proprietary, confidential, or otherwise
> privileged information, you must make that explicit. Otherwise, this
> discussion may be copied, republished, and otherwise used in the public
> domain - respectfully and with proper attribution. Furthermore, please
> consider that we are not interested in discussion as much as action.
> Therefore, we are particularly interested in discussion of ideas that both

> parties can commit to by acting on them.- Ocultar texto das mensagens anteriores -
>
> - Mostrar texto das mensagens anteriores -- Ocultar texto das mensagens anteriores -

[Rick Thomas]

Sorry, I had to look up "Steam jet ejector vacuum chilling" just to find out
what it is.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: solar-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:solar-...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Ozheliguy
Sent: 26 February 2010 18:19
To: Solar Turbine
Subject: [Solar Turbine] Re: Slat alignment

Hey Rick thanks again,

Thanks,

Milton.

--

To post to this group, send email to solar-...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
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See

http://openfarmtech.org/index.php?title=Solar_Power_Generator_Distillation_T
ranscript