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Feb 9, 2003, 1:54:38 PM2/9/03

freebsd-chat-digest Sunday, February 9 2003 Volume 05 : Number 698

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Re: languages
Re: languages
Okay, I think I need some serious introduction ;-)
Re: languages
Re: languages
Re: languages
Re: Okay, I think I need some serious introduction ;-)
Re: languages
Re: Okay, I think I need some serious introduction ;-)
Re: languages
Re: Okay, I think I need some serious introduction ;-)
Re: languages

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:25:12 -0800 (PST)
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------------------------------

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------------------------------

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:28:03 -0800 (PST)
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:27:47 -0800 (PST)
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:29:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

[19:22] <billh> Yeah, I really despise the FreeBSD folks in general, they have some of the biggest small dick complexies out of all the open source folks I know of.
[19:22] <billh> Alfred is one of the worst, Bill Fumerola is the other.

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:30:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:29:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:30:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:30:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:30:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:31:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:31:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:32:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

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_____________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:32:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:32:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:33:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
The Heavynoize Network --- http://heavynoize.net/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:33:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
The Heavynoize Network --- http://heavynoize.net/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:34:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
The Heavynoize Network --- http://heavynoize.net/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:33:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
The Heavynoize Network --- http://heavynoize.net/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:34:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:34:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:34:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
The Heavynoize Network --- http://heavynoize.net/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:35:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
The Heavynoize Network --- http://heavynoize.net/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:35:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
The Heavynoize Network --- http://heavynoize.net/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:35:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
The Heavynoize Network --- http://heavynoize.net/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:36:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
The Heavynoize Network --- http://heavynoize.net/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:36:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
The Heavynoize Network --- http://heavynoize.net/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:36:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
The Heavynoize Network --- http://heavynoize.net/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:37:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
The Heavynoize Network --- http://heavynoize.net/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:37:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
The Heavynoize Network --- http://heavynoize.net/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:37:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
The Heavynoize Network --- http://heavynoize.net/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 06:38:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Dillon <dil...@heavynoize.net>
Subject: sorry

- --
Matthew Dillon
DBSD - Available soon, FFL(1) licensed

1 - The Fuck Fumerola License (TM)

_____________________________________________________________
The Heavynoize Network --- http://heavynoize.net/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 14:39:20 +0000
From: Matthew Seaman <m.se...@infracaninophile.co.uk>
Subject: Re: languages

On Sun, Feb 09, 2003 at 01:39:23PM +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote:
> sw...@attbi.com (Gary W. Swearingen) writes:
> > XML and HTML are both languages in which you may tell the computer what
> > to do.
>
> XML is a syntax, not a language.

http://weblog.burningbird.net/fires/000581.htm

Cheers,

Matthew

- --
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 26 The Paddocks
Savill Way
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Marlow
Tel: +44 1628 476614 Bucks., SL7 1TH UK

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 16:23:10 +0100
From: "Zoidberg" <dr.zo...@telia.com>
Subject: Re: languages

says who?

XML = Extensible Markup Language
HTML = HyperText Markup Lanuage

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" <d...@ofug.org>
To: "Gary W. Swearingen" <sw...@attbi.com>
Cc: "Bill Moran" <wmo...@potentialtech.com>; <ch...@FreeBSD.ORG>
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: languages

> sw...@attbi.com (Gary W. Swearingen) writes:
> > XML and HTML are both languages in which you may tell the computer what
> > to do.
>
> XML is a syntax, not a language.
>
> DES
> --
> Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@ofug.org
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majo...@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 16:30:32 +0100 (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Westeurop=E4ische_Normalzeit?=)
From: Friedemann Becker <Friedema...@student.uni-tuebingen.de>
Subject: Okay, I think I need some serious introduction ;-)

Hi again,

after several mails - some of them leading to the wrong direction - I
decided to dare the big step: ask for help!

FreeBSD is nice and so on, documentation is great, many ports etc, "How to
contribute" hanbook chapter and the article are good too, but still I
miss most of the point:

I feel rather helpless when surfing through the gnats database, looking
for interesting tasks I could do. Some of the projects even would look
interesting, but e.g. for ia64 I do not have the hardware, binup seems to
sleep or to be unsure what the goals of the project are - or I didn't
understand - some of the projects don't seem to belong to freebsd.org
directly (like ALTQ).

I also would like to fix things like my bugreport (kern/47512), but I just
lack of background too much, to do things like this.

It seems to me - and I think I read something like this recently - that
freebsd is low on manpower: port-related bugreports are flooding the
gnats-database, so maintainers can't keep step with it. I _really_ want to
help, I think of myself as a quite potentially usefull programmer, but I
need someones help here.

If someone could please divert my unused engergies to the right direction :)

Thanks for all the advances in fish ;-)

Friedemann

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 11:40:46 -0500
From: Bill Moran <wmo...@potentialtech.com>
Subject: Re: languages

Zoidberg wrote:
> says who?
>
> XML = Extensible Markup Language
> HTML = HyperText Markup Lanuage

Sure ... and I can fly because I use Windows XP.

And when I drink Pepsi, I get so happy that I dance around,
and suddenly there are voluptuous women dancing with me!
And everyone is young again, and happy and carefree!

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" <d...@ofug.org>
>
>>sw...@attbi.com (Gary W. Swearingen) writes:
>>
>>>XML and HTML are both languages in which you may tell the computer what
>>>to do.
>>
>>XML is a syntax, not a language.
>>
>>DES
>>--
>>Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@ofug.org
>>
>>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majo...@FreeBSD.org
>>with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message

- --
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 11:41:13 -0500
From: Bill Moran <wmo...@potentialtech.com>
Subject: Re: languages

Matthew Seaman wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 09, 2003 at 01:39:23PM +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote:
>
>>sw...@attbi.com (Gary W. Swearingen) writes:
>>
>>>XML and HTML are both languages in which you may tell the computer what
>>>to do.
>>
>>XML is a syntax, not a language.
>
> http://weblog.burningbird.net/fires/000581.htm

That was a very satisfying read. Thank you for the link.

- --
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 19:13:29 +0100
From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav <d...@ofug.org>
Subject: Re: languages

"Zoidberg" <dr.zo...@telia.com> writes:
> says who?
>
> XML = Extensible Markup Language

All right, show me where in the XML 1.0 specification the
interpretation of the following snippet of XML described:

<class id="0xc0319d80">
<name>GEOMCTL</name>
<geom id="0xc4122600">
<class ref="0xc0319d80"/>
<name>geom.ctl</name>
<rank>1</rank>
<provider id="0xc4122580">
<geom ref="0xc4122600"/>
<mode>r0w0e0</mode>
<name>geom.ctl</name>
<mediasize>0</mediasize>
<sectorsize>512</sectorsize>
</provider>
</geom>
</class>

DES
- --
Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@ofug.org

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 18:16:26 +0000
From: Mark Murray <ma...@grondar.org>
Subject: Re: Okay, I think I need some serious introduction ;-)

Friedemann Becker writes:
> If someone could please divert my unused engergies to the right direction :)

Use the OS. When something bothers you, fix it :-). Submit your fix
back through the usual channels to learn the project norms and customs.

Repeat.

Welcome to FreeBSD! :-)

M
- --
Mark Murray
iumop ap!sdn w,I idlaH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 18:20:51 +0000
From: Mark Murray <ma...@grondar.org>
Subject: Re: languages

Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes:
> "Zoidberg" <dr.zo...@telia.com> writes:
> > says who?
> >
> > XML = Extensible Markup Language
>
> All right, show me where in the XML 1.0 specification the
> interpretation of the following snippet of XML described:

Where in a dictionary is the meaning of Jabberwocky explained?

'Twas brillig. and the slithy toves did gimble on the gyre....

Language is a structure, not necessarily a meaning.

M
- --
Mark Murray
iumop ap!sdn w,I idlaH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 18:37:41 +0000
From: Colin Percival <colin.p...@wadham.ox.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Okay, I think I need some serious introduction ;-)

At 18:16 09/02/2003 +0000, Mark Murray wrote:
>Use the OS. When something bothers you, fix it :-). Submit your fix
>back through the usual channels to learn the project norms and customs.

Continuing on with this process, what's the next step? Specifically,
after finding a bug, fixing it, submitting a PR with included patches to
- -CURRENT and -STABLE, and watching it sit in GNATS for 8 weeks, is there
anything to do other than keep on waiting?

Colin Percival

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 13:46:58 -0500
From: Rahul Siddharthan <rs...@online.fr>
Subject: Re: languages

Mark Murray wrote:
> Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes:
> > All right, show me where in the XML 1.0 specification the
> > interpretation of the following snippet of XML described:

Presumably in some DTD somewhere? That's possible with XML (hence
"extensible")

> Where in a dictionary is the meaning of Jabberwocky explained?
>
> 'Twas brillig. and the slithy toves did gimble on the gyre....
>
> Language is a structure, not necessarily a meaning.

Well, it's explained later in "Through the looking glass", and some
of it even got into the dictionary later ("chortle", "galumph").

The newspeak words in Burgess's "A clockwork orange" aren't in fact
explained anywhere -- the reader understands them by context. But
they still have a meaning. Ditto with some of Edward Lear's nonsense.

I think language is a structure *and* a meaning, but the meaning
doesn't necessarily come from an authoritative dictionary (though the
Academie Française may disagree)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 18:45:26 +0000
From: Mark Murray <ma...@grondar.org>
Subject: Re: Okay, I think I need some serious introduction ;-)

Colin Percival writes:
> At 18:16 09/02/2003 +0000, Mark Murray wrote:
> >Use the OS. When something bothers you, fix it :-). Submit your fix
> >back through the usual channels to learn the project norms and customs.
>
> Continuing on with this process, what's the next step? Specifically,
> after finding a bug, fixing it, submitting a PR with included patches to
> -CURRENT and -STABLE, and watching it sit in GNATS for 8 weeks, is there
> anything to do other than keep on waiting?

Yeah. Do enough of the above to get a good portfolio of patches "on
register". Participate in mailing lists such that your name and
credibility are recognised. Sooner or later someone will get annoyed by
this unprovoked display of compatibility and competence and punish you
with a commit bit.

After that, you commit your own damn patches. ;-)

M
- --
Mark Murray
iumop ap!sdn w,I idlaH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 19:53:07 +0100
From: "Zoidberg" <dr.zo...@telia.com>
Subject: Re: languages

well, congratulations then...

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Moran" <wmo...@potentialtech.com>
To: "Zoidberg" <dr.zo...@telia.com>
Cc: "Gary W. Swearingen" <sw...@attbi.com>; "Dag-Erling Smorgrav"
<d...@ofug.org>; <ch...@FreeBSD.ORG>
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: languages

> Zoidberg wrote:
> > says who?
> >
> > XML = Extensible Markup Language
> > HTML = HyperText Markup Lanuage
>
> Sure ... and I can fly because I use Windows XP.
>
> And when I drink Pepsi, I get so happy that I dance around,
> and suddenly there are voluptuous women dancing with me!
> And everyone is young again, and happy and carefree!
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" <d...@ofug.org>
> >
> >>sw...@attbi.com (Gary W. Swearingen) writes:
> >>
> >>>XML and HTML are both languages in which you may tell the computer what
> >>>to do.
> >>
> >>XML is a syntax, not a language.
> >>
> >>DES
> >>--
> >>Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@ofug.org
> >>
> >>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majo...@FreeBSD.org
> >>with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
>
> --
> Bill Moran
> Potential Technologies
> http://www.potentialtech.com
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majo...@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message

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