Micro-nations
Olav Ståle Søvik of Camster
I have been told that it is possible to buy a piece of land and
declare it independent?
Is it difficult to declare a piece of land independent?
Would the title "prince" be suitable as the sovereign title?
Does the sovereign of a small country have got a font of honour?
Can the sovereign give the font of honour to someone else and name
them "Head-of-Honours"? Can the sovereign of a small country live in
another country as a citizen there or as a PT (permanent tourist)?
The "font of honour" is a gold mine!
Louis Epstein
Olav Ståle Søvik of Camster (oso...@sn.no) wrote:
: I have been told that it is possible to buy a piece of land and
: declare it independent?
Getting the declaration taken seriously is another matter entirely;
and making the declaration stick another yet!
: Is it difficult to declare a piece of land independent?
As a practical matter virtually impossible to make your declaration
mean a bleessed thing.
: Would the title "prince" be suitable as the sovereign title?
It works for Liechtenstein and Monaco.
: Does the sovereign of a small country have got a font of honour?
Yes.
: Can the sovereign give the font of honour to someone else and name
: them "Head-of-Honours"?
As a sovereign,yes.
: Can the sovereign of a small country live in
: another country as a citizen there or as a PT (permanent tourist)?
Exile is not to be sought...
: The "font of honour" is a gold mine!
Those who do it for money get no respect.
Anton Sherwood
Olav Ståle Søvik of Camster <oso...@sn.no> writes
: I have been told that it is possible to buy a piece of land and
: declare it independent?
Very. In about 1973, some investors planned to establish a new state
on the Minerva Reefs, as a free trade zone - you might say the Cayman
Islands of the Pacific. The king of Tonga promptly sent war canoes
to chase them off (some say at the USA's request); the Minervans were
unarmed, and went.
Tonga's action is fishy because (a) Minerva is south of the Tropic of
Capricorn, which maps show as the southern limit of the territorial
waters of most Pacific states; (b) if the boundary between Tonga and
Fiji is extended south, Minerva is on the Fiji side. Did Fiji refuse
to get involved?
In another case, a millionaire from Virginia named Ratliff tried to buy
from Britain the sovereignty of Henderson Island, an uninhabited speck
near Pitcairn, offering money, an airstrip and three planes for
Pitcairn, and a standing invitation to Pitcairners to hitch-hike on his
own comings and goings by air. But Henderson apparently has rare
snails, and Ratliff is a damned American.
: Would the title "prince" be suitable as the sovereign title?
If it makes you happy. ;) I'm a more modest sort; if I ever acquire
sovereignty of a reef or asteroid, I'll call it a Free Barony. I'll
have tenants but not subjects.
You might enjoy Neal Stephenson's novels "Snow Crash" and "The Diamond Age".
: Does the sovereign of a small country have got a font of honour?
: Can the sovereign give the font of honour to someone else and name
: them "Head-of-Honours"?
Why would you want to? If you're going into the business of selling
titles, you might appoint a secretary for such matters; but to make it
look good the papers should be signed by the actual sovereign.
: Can the sovereign of a small country live in
: another country as a citizen there or as a PT (permanent tourist)?
Stateless people do exist. Algis Budrys (writer and critic) mentioned
a while back that he was the youngest citizen of independent Lithuania;
if I ever meet him I'll ask whether he has a new passport (when the
USSR dissolved, the Lithuanian government-in-exile became a consulate
and dusted off its stamps...).
I've heard of several One-World or New Country projects that finance
themselves by selling passports. No idea whether anyone recognizes
them, though I did hear of Leon Louw bluffing a border-guard in
Swaziland with a stateless passport. (Presumably he did it for a
laugh.)
: The "font of honour" is a gold mine!
Only if you can find someone who'll take it seriously!
--
Anton Sherwood *\\* +1 415 267 0685 *\\* DAS...@netcom.com
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within
the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." --Claire Wolfe
Nick
>I have been told that it is possible to buy a piece of land and
>declare it independent?
Well lots of folk have tried this. It worked for the Americans, didn't
work in Katanga and Biafra, worked for the Singaporeans, hasn't and
won't work for the Quebecers, and didn't work for the Rhodesians. Tell
you what, Olav. Buy a house in Oslo, declare it independent and see
what the Norwegian response is. Let us know.
>Is it difficult to declare a piece of land independent?
See above answers.
>Would the title "prince" be suitable as the sovereign title?
Yes. Also, Grand Poobah, Exalted Majesty, President, and various other
titles. Laird of Camster isn't one of them.
>Does the sovereign of a small country have got a font of honour?
Yes. It's usually in the church where he performs baptisms.
>Can the sovereign give the font of honour to someone else and name
>them "Head-of-Honours"?
Yes. In England these are called vicars and they perform the baptisms.
>Can the sovereign of a small country live in
>another country as a citizen there or as a PT (permanent tourist)?
Yes.For instance, Queen Elizabeth II of Canada lives in the United
Kingdom. The real King of Norway actually lives in Sweden.
>The "font of honour" is a gold mine!
Yes, unless it's located in Busang, Indonesia, in which case it is
called Bre-X.
(apologies to atr members; just couldn't resist!)
Morley
Olav StĀle SÆvik of Camster wrote:
>
> >Well lots of folk have tried this. It worked for the Americans, didn't
> >work in Katanga and Biafra, worked for the Singaporeans, hasn't and
> >won't work for the Quebecers, and didn't work for the Rhodesians. Tell
> >you what, Olav. Buy a house in Oslo, declare it independent and see
> >what the Norwegian response is. Let us know.
> perhaps I could take some of my garden and declare it independent. I
> could also declare parts of unusual mountains independent, perhaps
> that would work.
>
> What titles are: Grand Poobah, Exalted Majesty, Presiden
>
> > The real King of Norway actually lives in Sweden.
> in wars when they supported Napoleon.
>
> >(apologies to atr members; just couldn't resist!)
Careful Olav, there are odd - exceedinglty odd - moments when your
English is almost impeccable. Not quite, but...............
Steven F. Scharff
--
=======================
Steven F. Scharff <sch...@wizard.com>. Please "cc" to <sfsc...@juno.com>
Visit my pitiful (yet updated) excuse of a website at
<http://www.angelfire.com/nv/scharff/>
Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes
=======================
Anton Sherwood <das...@netcom.com> wrote in article
<dasherE8...@netcom.com>...
| Olav Ståle Søvik of Camster <oso...@sn.no> writes
| : I have been told that it is possible to buy a piece of land and
| : declare it independent?
| : Is it difficult to declare a piece of land independent?
|
| Very. In about 1973, some investors planned to establish a new state
| on the Minerva Reefs, as a free trade zone - you might say the Cayman
| Islands of the Pacific. The king of Tonga promptly sent war canoes
| to chase them off (some say at the USA's request); the Minervans were
| unarmed, and went.
Actually, the "island" was uninhabited at the time. It was little more than
sand dumped over the reefs by a Australian dredging ship. The "soldiers"
were taken from a Tognanese jail, and all that was done was to knock over a
small tower with a Minervan flag, play the Tonganese national anthem, and
read a proclamation of sovereignty.
Tonga has started selling the "space" over their islands and holdings for
geostationary satellites, so maybe the King was thinking ahead?
The investors were led by a Libertarian businessman named Michael J.
Oliver. The sand has since been washed off the reefs.
You can get the whole story in HOW TO START YOUR OWN COUNTRY by Erwin S.
Strauss (Loompanics Unlimited). This book also details other "flyspeck"
nation-state projects as well as model countries.
Other odd "island" projects include the Principality of Sealand and the
Isle of the Roses, both on man-made platforms.
(snip)
|
| You might enjoy Neal Stephenson's novels "Snow Crash" and "The Diamond
Age".
Could you describe these to the uninitiated?
| I've heard of several One-World or New Country projects that finance
| themselves by selling passports. No idea whether anyone recognizes
| them, though I did hear of Leon Louw bluffing a border-guard in
| Swaziland with a stateless passport. (Presumably he did it for a
| laugh.)
The leading group that issues One-World passports is the World Service
Authority. <http://www.worldcitizen.org>. The only difference is that this
group has de jure (official and legal) recognition by 6 countries! WSA
issues passports, birth and wedding certificates, and "World Citizen" ID
cards. The founder, Garry Davis, holds WSA passport #0000001, and has been
arrested and deported for the crime of crossing international borders
without citizenship close to 300 times!
Problem is, how do you "deport" someone with no citizenship?
| : The "font of honour" is a gold mine!
|
| Only if you can find someone who'll take it seriously!
Still, documents of noble title look great on a wall!
--
=======================
Steven F. Scharff <sch...@wizard.com>. Please "cc" to <sfsc...@juno.com>
Visit my pitiful (yet updated) excuse of a website at
<http://www.angelfire.com/nv/scharff/>
Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes
=======================
Louis Epstein
Olav Ståle Søvik of Camster (oso...@sn.no) wrote:
:
: >>declare it independent?
:
: >work in Katanga and Biafra, worked for the Singaporeans, hasn't and
: >won't work for the Quebecers, and didn't work for the Rhodesians. Tell
: >you what, Olav. Buy a house in Oslo, declare it independent and see
: >what the Norwegian response is. Let us know.
: -How do I declare a piece of land independent? How big can it be?
: How big are the independent states in USA, and Singapore?
Look,I declared myself Overlord of the Universe almost twenty years ago.
However,not a single planet has conveyed its recognition even now!
The question is not can you utter some grandiloquent words,it's
can you get anyone to take the claim seriously.
: -It is possible for me to buy a great piece of land in USA and declare
: it independent?
If you have the money and are not mute.The authorities will prosecute you
as necessary if you seek to have your declaration recognized,however!
: -I know this question might be a little strange, but hom much does
: 1 square metres cost in pounds or dollars? I guess it depends on
: where it is situated, but I talk about a piece of land in a wood, at a
: mountain or something like that.
Just remember that having your declaration ignored is about the best you
can hope for.
Olav Ståle Søvik of Camster
>Well lots of folk have tried this. It worked for the Americans, didn't
>work in Katanga and Biafra, worked for the Singaporeans, hasn't and
>won't work for the Quebecers, and didn't work for the Rhodesians. Tell
>you what, Olav. Buy a house in Oslo, declare it independent and see
>what the Norwegian response is. Let us know.
Olav Ståle Søvik of Camster
>>I have been told that it is possible to buy a piece of land and
>>declare it independent?
>Well lots of folk have tried this. It worked for the Americans, didn't
>work in Katanga and Biafra, worked for the Singaporeans, hasn't and
>won't work for the Quebecers, and didn't work for the Rhodesians. Tell
>you what, Olav. Buy a house in Oslo, declare it independent and see
>what the Norwegian response is. Let us know.
-How do I declare a piece of land independent? How big can it be?
How big are the independent states in USA, and Singapore?
-It is possible for me to buy a great piece of land in USA and declare
it independent?
-I know this question might be a little strange, but hom much does
Anton Sherwood
Steven F. Scharff <sch...@wizard.com> writes
[more than I knew or remembered about Minerva. Thanks!]
: Anton Sherwood <das...@netcom.com> wrote
: | You might enjoy Neal Stephenson's novels "Snow Crash" and "The Diamond Age".
: Could you describe these to the uninitiated?
Though unrelated to each other, the key players in each are
micro-states occupying scattered enclaves ("franchulates").
In "Snow Crash", the most important are the Mafia and Mr Lee's Greater
Hong Kong; in "The Diamond Age", the neo-Victorian kingdom of Atlantis
and the shadowy Confucian state that claims to be the successor of the
Chinese empire.
: The leading group that issues One-World passports is the World Service
: Authority. <http://www.worldcitizen.org>. [...]
Yeah, that one. I might be tempted to buy one, but can't quite swallow
their ideology. The other issuer I had in mind was Eric Klien's Oceania
project, which at last report wanted to build a floating city off Panama.
Bruce "B-chan" Lewis
It is indeed possible to prclaim your own prinicpality or kingdom in the
U.S., as long as you don't take things too seriously. I refer all
readers of this ng to http://www.execpc.com/~talossa/index.html for a
look at North America's largest and most successful micronation.
My own national web page will be up soon, by the way!
Weißenstein für immer und ewige,
BRUCE
King of Weissenstein
Header e-mail address hacked
to defeat e-mail spammers.
Reply to: bch...@idt.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Nick
>
>>>I have been told that it is possible to buy a piece of land and
>>>declare it independent?
>
>>Well lots of folk have tried this. It worked for the Americans, didn't
>>work in Katanga and Biafra, worked for the Singaporeans, hasn't and
>>won't work for the Quebecers, and didn't work for the Rhodesians. Tell
>>you what, Olav. Buy a house in Oslo, declare it independent and see
>>what the Norwegian response is. Let us know.
>
>-How do I declare a piece of land independent? How big can it be?
>How big are the independent states in USA, and Singapore?
OK, Olav - let's keep this joke going a while longer:
>-It is possible for me to buy a great piece of land in USA and declare
>it independent?
Certainly. For instance, the Montana Freemen have done this. However,
be advised the US federal authorities and the FBI don't take kindly to
this kind of thing. The Americans have this funny thing about "one
nation, indivisible,...." So y'see, it ain't gonna be easy
>
>-I know this question might be a little strange, but hom much does
> 1 square metres cost in pounds or dollars? I guess it depends on
>where it is situated, but I talk about a piece of land in a wood, at a
>mountain or something like that.
Right. If you are seriously interested, I have some otherwise
worthless swampland in Florida ....
Louis Epstein
Bruce \"B-chan\" Lewis (spoil...@spambuster.net) wrote:
: It is indeed possible to prclaim your own prinicpality or kingdom in the
: U.S., as long as you don't take things too seriously. I refer all
: readers of this ng to http://www.execpc.com/~talossa/index.html for a
: look at North America's largest and most successful micronation.
Talossa is biased abut itself,of course.
Their Micronation Page has refused to list the one I've run for fifteen
years,or the one a friend has headed for decades.
: My own national web page will be up soon, by the way!
Anton Sherwood
: >another country as a citizen there or as a PT (permanent tourist)?
Nick <cho...@hotmail.com> writes
: Yes.For instance, Queen Elizabeth II of Canada lives in the United
: Kingdom. The real King of Norway actually lives in Sweden.
Hee hee. And the real king of France lives in Bavaria.
Can I say without being patronizing that the Germanic syntax
of the Norwegians in this thread is to me charming?
--
Anton Sherwood *\\* +1 415 267 0685 *\\* DASher @ netcom .com
Anton Sherwood
Olav Ståle Søvik of Camster <oso...@sn.no> writes
: >>I have been told that it is possible to buy a piece of land and
: >>declare it independent?
: >Well lots of folk have tried this. It worked for the Americans, didn't
: >work in Katanga and Biafra, worked for the Singaporeans, hasn't and
: >won't work for the Quebecers, and didn't work for the Rhodesians. Tell
: >you what, Olav. Buy a house in Oslo, declare it independent and see
: >what the Norwegian response is. Let us know.
: -How do I declare a piece of land independent? How big can it be?
: How big are the independent states in USA, and Singapore?
Good grief. Hasn't your school even got an *atlas* ?!
--
Anton Sherwood *\\* +1 415 267 0685 *\\* DASher @ netcom .com
"How'd ya like to climb this high WITHOUT no mountain?" --Porky Pine 70.6.19