Does NZ need a Sexy Testing Conference?

[David Robinson]

Cross post from http://blog.karit.geek.nz/2013/05/a-sexy-software-testing-conference-for.html

HI All,

Just my two cents.

Recently I was at the work unconference where a lot of the Devs had Codemania TShirts on and saying great things about it. This got me thinking of Software Testing Conferences in NZ where is our sexy conference that we talk fondly of and wear TShirts from? STANZ isn't a sexy community based conference, it is a big, expensive old style conference (does it even have a TShirt? and would you proudly wear it?). KWST does have some of that sex appeal of the new style conference but it is invite only.

Looking at KWST, WeTest, NZ Tester, etc we don't need the flashy international super star testers to talk at it, there are a lot of people in NZ who have a lot to offer to the community. Then there are also a great number of people who could learn from these people as well.

Also look at what can be done, the Kiwicon the Hackers conference was only $60 per person plus some corporate sponsorship. I pay for Kiwicon out of my own pocket given that I enjoy and have a load of fun there. It is a conference that I go to because I want to go to rather than one of those conference where there is a bit of a feeling of going to keep up appearances and get a little bit out of it. Especially when the price is factored into it.

A common theme I see between Codemania and Kiwicon is that the core people behind making it happen are respected in the community and they are making the conference they would be first in line to queue up for tickets, like people would do for their favourite band when tickets to the gig go on sale.

So does NZ need something like this for the software testers? Or is KWST and WeTest etc enough for us? They are great and wouldn't want them to disappear. Surely there must be more testers who are interested in professional development or are a lot of testers comfortable doing what they are doing an not wanting to rock the boat? Or is that the WeTests all fill up instantly so are will making an elite clique that people can't break into? (Which I assume is no one's intention)

Regards,
Dave

[Katrina Edgar]

Dave,

WeTest was the first attempt to flush out the testers who wanted more. It has been my experience that a terrifying number are happy to continue testing exactly as they have for years. They don't want to be challenged and the industry doesn't demand that they are.

I also feel that KWST is a little too exclusive. We are really trying to avoid WeTest becoming the same. At the moment we have around 30% of attendees at each event being first timers, so I'm happy that we're still growing and pulling in those people around Wellington who want to meet other testers and learn from them.

At some stage we will reach a point where both events start to settle with a common group. That's when I think we have enough community to create a "sexy testing conference". My feeling at the moment is that we haven't quite dragged enough people out of the Wellington woodwork to get the support.

Also,  we could do tshirts for WeTest :)

Katrina

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Software Testers New Zealand" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to software-testers-new...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to software-teste...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/software-testers-new-zealand?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 

[Aaron Hodder]

I agree with Dave whole-heartedly.  I look at the tweets coming out of Let's Test that's happening in Europe right now and have serious conference-envy. I think we totally need an open-spaces / peer conference style conference in NZ. One modelled on CAST perhaps which is kind of a hybrid: speakers speak for about 35-45 minutes, and the rest of the time is facilitated open discussion. There are also tutorials, and testing games, and a big social aspect to it too.

 

WeTest was an attempt to begin the movement towards getting enthusiastic testers out of the woodwork and engaging with one another, and perhaps a bigger conference is the next natural evolution. STANZ is great but I do feel the price point excludes a lot of newer testers. That is, managers are perhaps less likely to spend that much money on a newbie tester to attend. Also, the social aspects of STANZ are limited. It's a great conference to hear from great speakers, and I always enjoy going, but I do think it leaves a gap for a "sexier" conference with a lower barrier of entry where more bleeding edge ideas and debates can occur.  And testing games. I love testing games ;) I guess the question is: "How do we make it happen?"  Approach the Association for Software Testing for sponsorship? See if SoftEd would be willing to help out?

[Oliver Erlewein]

Hi all,

I do agree with your sentiment David. I'd love nothing more but what Katrina implied is a sad fact. We will see if we/she is wrong I suppose.

1) Let's Test ANZ is in the making as we speak.

2) Feb 2014 will see another CITCON in Auckland. I was planning on doing a CITCON like event for testers only but have postponed that until 2015 as I don't want to compete with CITCON. I have already talked with Paul Julius about it and there would be funding and support coming from the peer conference mothership.

That sound like something along the lines you're wanting?

Cheers Oliver

[Shaun Boyce]

Questions of funding and momentum aside it sounds like a great idea to me :)

 

Perhaps the WeTest meetups could form a solid base (of topics and talks) i.e. 11 months of WeTest meetups, ~11 topics & 11 speakers who've all had the chance to present their ideas and receive feedback from their peers. Then on the 12th month (or there-abouts) a larger conference (with tutorials / games in addition to the talks) which brings it all together in a nice neat package for a wider audience at an accessible price... wouldn't have to be fancy, just well managed and full of substance :)

[Katrina Edgar]

Shaun - I quite like that idea :)

[Shaun Boyce]

:)

 

My hope would be: people attend the first wider conference and (touch wood) really enjoy it... they discover the speakers are all just testers like them from around Wellington / NZ ... perhaps they have something they want to say as well so they ask about speaking at an upcoming WeTest event... perhaps the most interesting talks from the wider conference start making their way into other conferences and the word just keeps spreading

 

Talk about incentives to get up and start getting involved :)

[mjpur...@gmail.com]

Hi Dave and All,

I'm curious to hear the definition of "sexy" (in the context of conferences!) and of "community". With STANZ we've managed to engage around 100 testers in NZ each time, with plenty of discussion before, after and during the conference. The feedback we consistently get from testers is that the primary value comes imported ideas (like Matt Heusser this August). Could be a case of "a prophet in his own country...", but that's what we're told. That in turn drives the cost. Anyway, we'll keep running STANZ for another twelve years, so any suggestions for improvement most welcome.  

Martyn      

[David Robinson]

Hi,

Glad to know that I am not the only one who has similar thoughts. I
like Oliver ideas will be great to see them come through. Went to
CITCON when it was Wellington and really enjoyed. The Lets Test does
sound interesting. Also Shaun's idea of big WeTest type thing once a
year. Maybe have the leader talk on their topic for 30min and then in
the afternoon break out into some hour long unconference break outs?

Though apathy amongst some in the profession/craft to extending their
own skill set maybe an issue. Maybe on the flip side what can we do to
inspire our co workers?

The mention of testing games reminds me of Code Retreats
(http://coderetreat.org/) which I recently heard about. They are a dev
thing were it iss broken into hour blocks and they have to keep
solving the same problem each hour starting from a clean slate. Each
hour has a different focus and idea and is about getting back to
basics a focusing/learning/relearning particular skills of the craft.
Again they are being spoken highly of as a concept to remember the
craft as we often get too tied up in our job and forget our craft.

Martyn: To me STANZ is a conference 1.0 all about sitting there and
having the talking head at the front of the room, it feels big,
unsocial (find it easy to talk to random when already "talked" with
them in an unconference or LAWST) and the price. (Caveat haven't been
since the one day format, but then nothing has inspired me since to
ask my boss to send me)

Then came along Conference 2.0 with the ideas being more social. For
that we get things like unconferences and LAWST which are about the
collective knowledge of the room. As for community driven the Kiwicon
crue are respected members of the NZ Security Community when you get a
pen test done there is a chance that it is going to be those guys who
are owning your boxes. With Codemania one of the co creators is Ben
Gracewood who's day job is a dev. It is about people in the community
making the conference of their dreams to scratch their own itches.
With business run conferences you just get a different vibe maybe the
money and breaking even is more important than a good time as the
first reason for putting it on? As for price to get international
speakers Kiwicon had five last year from the US and a bunch from
Aussie from recollection and a handful zero day vulnerabilities made
public for the first time at the conference.

[Aaron Hodder]

As I mentioned before, I think STANZ is a great conference, and I've always enjoyed my time there. It's a great way to be exposed to international leaders and I have SoftEd to thank for bringing people like James Bach out to New Zealand, whom I may never have met otherwise. One highlight was in 2011, playing SET at lunchtime with Goranka from Facebook, another was in 2008, timidly approaching James Bach about how to do testing "by the book" and him saying "why would you want to do things by the book? The book is wrong!" That was certainly a formative event for me, and I have STANZ to thank for that.

 

But it does have a high barrier to entry (the cost) that some people cannot meet, and it does leave gaps that another conference could fill.  So I also wonder if there is space for a leaner open-spaces style conference, or unconference, or peer conference.  Michael Bolton tweeted this from Let's Test: https://twitter.com/michaelbolton/status/336919861135540224/photo/1  It would be great to see something like this locally.  Not as a replacement for STANZ, or as a competition to STANZ, but as something else as well as STANZ. 

 

I love the idea of the "super WeTest", and I'll definitely be talking with Katrina about it.

[Brian Osman]

I agree with Aaron in that STANZ is the only software testing conference that actually brings interesting speakers who are LEADERS in their own right (James Bach, Scott Barber, Goranka et al) and I'm grateful that I've had the opportunity to attend a number of STANZ conferences and meet them. The only other practical way to meet these leaders would be via online and that's not the same. In my opinion, STANZ is head and shoulders above other conferences of the same ilk (such as ANZTB, Ignite or the Cognizant one) for the QUALITY of speakers. The other conferences don't compare.

When we founded KWST, it was for a specific reason and aimed at a specific group.  Yes it is *exclusive* (but NOT elitist) and most of that is due to the WAY a peer conference is run and what we are attempting to achieve.  KWST is a *different* type of conference compared to STANZ and I see KWST as an addition to, not  a competition against STANZ. Different philosophies, outcomes and logistics and both fill a need in the conference space.

Is there room for a *something else* type of conference? I don't know but David R has raised an interesting point and maybe its something worth thinking about.

Just my 2 cents worth :)

[Oliver Erlewein]

^what Brian said!!! STANZ is really necessary in our market and the need won't go away anyday soon. But I see the need for more. KWST, WeTest and a heap of others. If we compare PM confs, Dev confs,... they have a lot more too. So I don't think there is a competition scenario (bar STANZ vs ANZTB conf). Since the peer confs are low budget they also don't compete for training budget. It's just more pure goodness.

:)

[Shaun Boyce]

In answer to your question Martyn, I think 'sexy' in this context is a question of 'attractive to who?’ which in turn may be answered by the definition of 'community' in this context

 

As others have pointed out STANZ is very attractive to testers who want to come and hear, and potentially meet international speakers and leaders in the industry

 

I think WeTest for the most part, (appearances by Michael Bolton aside) is more of a grassroots movement (in the 'conference 2.0' as David calls it) and as such is attractive for different but similarly compelling reasons… the 'community' in question is the target audience... i.e. the testers Katrina wants to flush out of the Wellington woodwork and the WeTest regulars who itch for a regular outlet for their creative ideas

 

My take on the idea for another 'conference' (whether it be an unconference, or a 'super WeTest' or something else) is: I believe everyone has leadership potential, and a fundamental part of the conferences everyone has mentioned here (STANZ very much included) is developing that leadership potential in the people who attend

 

Meetups like 'WeTest', similarly to initiatives like Toastmasters, are about encouraging the people who attend to become leaders in their own right by providing them an accessible, safe way of getting involved 

 

I've not actually made it to a STANZ event, the cost for me has been prohibitive but it sounds like STANZ has played a big part in helping develop many of the testers who are now leading the way here, and WeTest is testament to that... it's the new local leaders of today passing it forward to the potential leaders of tomorrow :)

[olivernz]

David, 

You might be getting your wish sooner than you think. David's put together a little gem ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLHD-PuurvM

Cheers Oliver

On Wednesday, 22 May 2013 09:01:08 UTC+12, David Robinson wrote:

[Oliver Erlewein]

Shaun,

Without me attending STANZ I would be nowhere near where I am today testing wise. It was the single biggest event(s) that made me realise that testing is a profession and not only a job. And continuing on from that to discover CDT and all the energetic and wonderful people involved in that locally and world-wide.

So Martyn, ab very BIG thanks to you and your "crew" for that! 

[Brian Osman]

+1 Oliver :)

[Shaun Boyce]

"Without me attending STANZ I would be nowhere near where I am today testing wise. It was the single biggest event(s) that made me realise that testing is a profession and not only a job."

 

Sounds like Martyn has little to worry about - endorsements don't get much better than that.

 

Totally understand him posing the question though, and applaud him for being so humble after all these years as to still seek feedback and ask how they might do better - got to respect that :)

 

And as you said Oliver, it's just more pure goodness :)

[David Robinson]

Awesome Video for Lets Test. Now how to justify an Aussie trip shame
it doesn't coincide with a music festival, so can kill two birds with
one stone ;)

Yes STANZ is important in the ecosystem which is testing. Things can
live side by side and not compete. MS TechEd lives quite happily side
by side with all the other Dev conferences and all scratch different
itches.

[Shaun Boyce]

As a side note - did we answer your questions Martyn?

 

If you're is genuinely asking for constructive feedback on STANZ, it sounds like a number of the posters here might be in a position to provide that sort of feedback

 

I imagine it would be useful to hear both from people who have attended, and from people who have heard of STANZ but not attended, or perhaps (as in David's case) people who went just the once and then not again

 

If you still have questions, or would like more feedback I would suggest you start a new topic and put those questions to us :)

[Oliver Erlewein]

Testing demand for know how and good testers is huge in NZ. I fail to
see why testers and the industry worries about competition.

What I see is competition from people and organisations that haven't
got a clue about testing trying to sell the same. That is also true
for conferences and training. That is what is harming the market and
what destroys our reputation and our profession(alism). But I think
that is another discussion entirely.

[David Greenlees]

I can play a little piano, and smoke on the water on guitar... will that help?

;0)

[amcha...@gmail.com]

Hi everyone,

My gut feel is that LetsTest and STANZ are very different beasts. I've been to both, and I enjoy going to both. Lets Test is more like a family reunion with intense learning. The format is very informal. Sponsors are not allowed to be at tables, but are invited to sponsor events (such as personal training!). The conference price includes ALL accommodation and meals. This encourages people to stay and talk long into the night (as we down under can attest to!). Also Lets Test is specifically context driven. It promotes itself as such. Its picky about its sponsors and really you need some serious context driven tendencies to attend.

STANZ brings quality people to this part of the world and helps promote local talent, to which I am forever grateful. I think STANZ is a terrific conference but its more in the traditional conference vein. STANZ is slightly broader, it probably appeals to a wider audience.

I see no reason why both can't live side by side.

Anne-Marie

[olivernz]

Hi again,

Just an FYI to conferences/workshops coming up:

06 & 07/07/2013 KWST (Wellington)

24/07/2013 Next WeTest workshop (http://www.meetup.com/WeTest-Workshops/events/119841952/)

03 & 04/08/2013 OZWST (http://ozwst.wordpress.com/)

05/08/2013 Tasting Let's Test (OZ) (http://lets-test.com/?page_id=1853)

19/08/2013 STANZ Wellington (http://www.softed.com/stanz/)

Feb 2014 CITCON Auckland

2014 full Let's Test in OZ

There's also TPN and SQNZ meetings but I don't have dates for the next ones.

Hope that helps a bit for everyone to get thier testing mojo into gear ;-)

Cheers Oliver

On Wednesday, 22 May 2013 09:01:08 UTC+12, David Robinson wrote:

[mjpur...@gmail.com]

STANZ also runs in Auckland on 20 August.

Martyn

[Mike Talks]

Because I'm fortunate to be an ex-developer, last year I attended two absolutely free events - SQL Saturday and Code Camp, which were hugely positive experiences run simply by people with passion for the subject.

I've been talking to Dave about this, and I do think there really should be a testing event which tries to achieve the same thing. I know Agile Wellington is trying to do a similar camp in (on Agile) future.

A major issue is just getting a place and sponsorship to make it happen. Amongst the WeTest crew we have a good number of writers around Testing, so I'm sure there's enough folk like myself who are itching for the chance to do a presentation or a workshop idea along that line?

[David Greenlees]

Sounds easy (and it isn't), but... start one!

Use a similar model to Weekend Testing, or organise a good ol' LAN party... but no games, just testing!

To echo Nike... Just do it!

;0)

--

[Brian Osman]

+1 DG....it just takes one person to start (with a little encouragement):-)

Mike?:-)

Sent from my Windows Phone

---

From: David Greenlees
Sent: 29/05/2013 4:58 p.m.
To: software-teste...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [stnz] Re: Does NZ need a Sexy Testing Conference?

[David Greenlees]

Mike - We hereby encourage you to go forth, and create your software testing camp!

Serious though mate... these things have to start somewhere... make it small, then grow.  Build interest and excitement... then it'll run itself (so to speak).

[Mike Talks]

Well I'm starting to think that way - me and Dave are starting to talk about this, and I'm really keen to talk around KWST and WeTest about this.  I think Dave has started a ball rolling.

[Oliver Erlewein]

Different people learn in different ways. They need different conferences and, most importantly, see different things as sexy/cool/fun. So in my opinion the more the merrier. If concepts don't work they will die a natural death. If they work they will succeed. The actual achievement is in the "having tried". 

See the example "Weekend Testing ANZ". Marlena Compton and I ran that for quite a while but uptake was very slow and it ran just under a year and it died. Now it's coming back (hopefully). I think the uptake would be completely different. The testing market today is totally different. More people are interested. So I'm hoping it will be a success.

So yeah things fail even if they are good ideas. They might come back when the time is right, they might not. We need to try and find our way. Without trying we won't know.

So Mike & Dave keen to see what you come up with! Expecting an invite mail soon ;-)

On 30 May 2013 11:36, Mike Talks <grey_wol...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Well I'm starting to think that way - me and Dave are starting to talk about this, and I'm really keen to talk around KWST and WeTest about this.  I think Dave has started a ball rolling.

--

[Mike Talks]

There is nothing more terrifying than going from "someone should" to "how can we".  Yup - we're going to start going through and working out what's involved to make it happen.  Scope out the requirements so to speak.  Anyone know a good BA?  ;-)

[Oliver Erlewein]

LOL....NO! ;-)

On 30 May 2013 13:16, Mike Talks <grey_wol...@hotmail.com> wrote:

There is nothing more terrifying than going from "someone should" to "how can we".  Yup - we're going to start going through and working out what's involved to make it happen.  Scope out the requirements so to speak.  Anyone know a good BA?  ;-)

--

[David Greenlees]

ha!  i was waiting for that!  haha

[Andrew Robins]

"We shall apply fractal logic to the quantum interface in an agile way to manifest our perfect synergy to actualise the business value we need to streamline the delivery system for this conference."

There could be a job for me as a BA yet!

Cheers

Andrew

Test Manager, Tait Radio Communications

---

This email, including any attachments, is only for the intended recipient. It is subject to copyright, is confidential and may be the subject of legal or other privilege, none of which is waived or lost by reason of this transmission.

If you are not an intended recipient, you may not use, disseminate, distribute or reproduce such email, any attachments, or any part thereof. If you have received a message in error, please notify the sender immediately and erase all copies of the message and any attachments.

Unfortunately, we cannot warrant that the email has not been altered or corrupted during transmission nor can we guarantee that any email or any attachments are free from computer viruses or other conditions which may damage or interfere with recipient data, hardware or software. The recipient relies upon its own procedures and assumes all risk of use and of opening any attachments.

---

[Brian Osman]

Very metamucil Andrew :)

[David Greenlees]

or some sort of C-level gig mate...

[Andrew Robins]

If by C level you mean "speed of light level" then I might agree ;-)

Cheers

Andrew

[Rebecca Ray]

I don't have a lot of time on my hands at the moment to help out, but I've done some conference organisation work before - shoot me an email if you need an extra set of hands or eyes at any point. 

I'm fairly new to testing, but I'm definitely keen on a sexy conference.

On 30 May 2013 13:39, David Greenlees <xtre...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Oliver Erlewein]

Go Rebecca! That's the spirit!! :)

[David Robinson]

What I have started????? *worried face*

Better help out getting something going I suppose as there are
expectations now, that will teach me.

As Mike has said have talked with him.

[Andrew Robins]

If you need someone to organise CHCH folk, then I will help if I can

[David Greenlees]

See Mike... it's like magic happening over the interwebs.  ;0)

[Mike Talks]

Fantastic.  The wheels are rolling.

[Oliver Erlewein]

I'd help too but already crowded for this year. :-(

But I'll definitely attend!

On 30 May 2013 15:24, Mike Talks <grey_wol...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Fantastic.  The wheels are rolling.

[Shaun Boyce]

I have not organised or helped to organise a conference before but it sounds like it could be an interesting and worthwhile experience so I'm keen to learn / help if I can

 

Count me in if you think there's something I could help with, even if it's just bouncing ideas back and forth :)

[jphailstone]

I'm always happy to share my experiences with all levels of testing people and share the mutual pain we have when we see complete stupidity and dumbness around us or PMs wanting to break our legs (in my case - that was a one off). I'd be happy to attend or talk - wouldn't matter to me :)

Perhaps we could do a tie up with Agile Welly Meetup group? I would like better communication between BAs, PMs and TAs - probably a pipe dream but "build it and they will come".

Cheers

James

[Matt Heusser]

Sorry, folks, I'm late to the party here.

If you want to create another conference in NZ, and I can help, I'd be happy to talk.

I'll be at STANZ in Wellington and Auckland; perhaps we can kick some ideas around?

--heusser

[Matt Heusser]

On Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:05:30 PM UTC-4, jphailstone wrote:

I would like better communication between BAs, PMs and TAs - probably a pipe dream but "build it and they will come".

I think the opportunity to reduce friction is a huge opportunity in test right now. If I can help with a conference, I'd like to; I will be in town for STANZ. (If this is a repeat post, I apologize. It looks like the first didn't "take").

--heusser