Nearly There - Status Update and Your "Runner Ups"

[LH (Leslie Hawthorn)]

Hello everyone,

I have everything I need from all of the organizations to announce the
Grand Prize Winners, so now it's just a matter of getting things in
order on our side. When I have an ETA for the announcement, I will
notify this list. The announcement will come at:

http://code.google.com/opensource/ghop/

and on the new Google Open Soure Blog

http://google-opensource.blogspot.com

I've heard from a number of organizations that choosing a grand prize
winner was exceedingly difficult and that they'd like to be able to
acknowledge their runners up somehow. If you folks draft some text
for the Google Open Source Blog showcasing the accomplishments of
those students who didn't get the Grand Prize but still did amazing
work, we'll publish it.

Maximum 5 students please, preferably 3. Remember, this isn't a press
release or marketing copy for your project - please make the write ups
much like your description of your Grand Prize Winner's
accomplishments. We'll edit the posts as necessary and share the
'final' text with you for your sign off.

If you'd like to do this, please send me copy after this Wednesday, 13
February.

Cheers,
LH

[Sigurd Magnusson]

Great! :)
SilverStripe certainly has a logical progression of first, second and
third place, so your offer to mention other top contributors is
awesome. These are students who did more than 20 tasks. We found them
to have a very visible lead over the other students involved over at
SilverStripe's camp of GHOP.

Sig

[Amy Stephen]

We talked about this possible approach in Joomla!, as well. It was
extremely difficult to pick a contestant, we have so many amazing
contributors. So, I understand the desire to honor more people in a
special way.

Let's consider, though, how disappointing it will be for many of these
amazing students to not be named the Grand Prize winner. Many were
deserving. They will accept this "loss", though, because it was part
of the contest they signed up for. By naming a few more people, we
would discourage people, again. And that was *not* part of the
contest.

The overall goal of the program is to introduce young people to free
software communities and projects and to encourage their
participation. I think the program did that very nicely - a smashing
success, even!

As a group in Joomla!, with the contestants, we had a couple of
spontaneous and frank discussions about the difficult task of naming a
'winner.' We talked about how the collective work helps the community,
not just one person's contributions. It appears to me that our very
top contestants are the same people who intuitively understand the
importance of community approaches, of helping one another, of sharing
knowledge, of learning, of having fun, and of valuing everyone's
gifts.

The big prize we each walk away with is a strengthened community, more
contributors, access to opportunity, connections, and learning. Anyone
who wants some of that can get it in a free software community. All
you have to do is contribute.

Thanks for letting me sharing my opinions on this,
Amy :)

--
AmySt...@gmail.com
http://OpenSourceCommunity.org

[Leslie Hawthorn]

On Feb 11, 2008 12:12 PM, Amy Stephen <amyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

We talked about this possible approach in Joomla!, as well. It was
extremely difficult to pick a contestant, we have so many amazing
contributors. So, I understand the desire to honor more people in a
special way.

Let's consider, though, how disappointing it will be for many of these
amazing students to not be named the Grand Prize winner. Many were
deserving. They will accept this "loss", though, because it was part
of the contest they signed up for. By naming a few more people, we
would discourage people, again. And that was *not* part of the
contest.

Interesting thought.  Do you think there's a way to do some honorable mentions without discouraging people?

The big prize we each walk away with is a strengthened community, more
contributors, access to opportunity, connections, and learning. Anyone
who wants some of that can get it in a free software community. All
you have to do is contribute.

Amen, sista!

--
Leslie Hawthorn
Program Manager - Open Source
Google Inc.

http://code.google.com/opensource/

I blog here:
http://googlesummerofcode.blogspot.com
http://google-opensource.blogspot.com
http://www.hawthornlandings.org

[Angela Byron]

On Feb 11, 2008 3:17 PM, Leslie Hawthorn <lhaw...@google.com> wrote:

On Feb 11, 2008 12:12 PM, Amy Stephen <amyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

We talked about this possible approach in Joomla!, as well. It was
extremely difficult to pick a contestant, we have so many amazing
contributors. So, I understand the desire to honor more people in a
special way.

Let's consider, though, how disappointing it will be for many of these
amazing students to not be named the Grand Prize winner. Many were
deserving. They will accept this "loss", though, because it was part
of the contest they signed up for. By naming a few more people, we
would discourage people, again. And that was *not* part of the
contest.

Interesting thought.  Do you think there's a way to do some honorable mentions without discouraging people?

After reading Amy's thoughts, I really don't think there is such a way, and pretty much feel like we should abandon the idea altogether, as well-meaning as it is. If some projects do mention runners-up and others don't (for this reason), it's going to cause even /more/ disappointment for students ("Wow, not only didn't I win, I didn't even do well enough for them to consider me a runner-up. Dang...").

As tough as the decision was for all of us, it was also something that everyone involved knew was inevitable. Maybe we could discuss next year how/if to have 2nd/3rd prizes so we can prepare expectations accordingly, but for this year I think doing this would probably be a mistake. Let each project handle this on their own communities' GHOP wrap-up announcements if they so choose.

-Angie

[Leslie Hawthorn]

On Feb 11, 2008 4:41 PM, Angela Byron <webchic...@gmail.com> wrote:

Let's consider, though, how disappointing it will be for many of these

amazing students to not be named the Grand Prize winner. Many were
deserving. They will accept this "loss", though, because it was part
of the contest they signed up for. By naming a few more people, we
would discourage people, again. And that was *not* part of the
contest.

Interesting thought.  Do you think there's a way to do some honorable mentions without discouraging people?

After reading Amy's thoughts, I really don't think there is such a way, and pretty much feel like we should abandon the idea altogether, as well-meaning as it is. If some projects do mention runners-up and others don't (for this reason), it's going to cause even /more/ disappointment for students ("Wow, not only didn't I win, I didn't even do well enough for them to consider me a runner-up. Dang...").

As tough as the decision was for all of us, it was also something that everyone involved knew was inevitable. Maybe we could discuss next year how/if to have 2nd/3rd prizes so we can prepare expectations accordingly, but for this year I think doing this would probably be a mistake. Let each project handle this on their own communities' GHOP wrap-up announcements if they so choose.

I'm good with this, but I did commit to the PSF that I'd run such a post if they produced one and I'm going to honor that if they ask me to do so. 

I hate to sound unkind, but not winning (and not placing) is a fact of life.  There's a part of me that thinks giving kudos to people who really shined is worth some hurt feelings.  Isn't being a part of participation in open source, even in the healthiest and gentlest community, growing a thicker skin?

In any case, I think this debate can rage on forever.  I'll make another offer - if you let me know who your top 5 runners up were, I will include extra Google swag in their GHOP prize package.  Then it's all anonymous and those who worked really hard get extra love.

Cheers,
LH

[Doug Hellmann]

It seems like you're all over-thinking this.  Having "runners up" in contests is very common, and although not explicitly described in the official rules as such, I find it hard to understand how anyone would be "discouraged" if we mention the exceptional work of a few students in addition to our top prize winners.

Doug

[Amy Stephen]

Leslie published in her announcement that we will feature stories on
runner up students, so, we are moving forward. And, I am cool with
that. Featuring stories on these kids is an excellent idea!

I agree with Angie's point on continuing to work as a united front as
it relates to the Google end of things. So, I suggest we talk about
these ideas within our own projects about this and work out the
details, together, as a group.

To make this work for our contestants, I think it will be helpful to
feature the work of more than three to five people. Out of the 75
participants we had, there is easily a solid list of up to 15 people
we would certainly like to honor.

Maybe this could be done by allowing one Google Blog per project? To
keep it even we could have a word limit for each project team - but
within those parameters, allow each project some latitude to operate?

This has been an exceptional group because share common goals and
approaches, and that includes valuing different perspectives and
accomodating those ideas. It has been an honor to participate with
you.

Thanks!
Amy :)

[Leslie Hawthorn]

On Feb 12, 2008 7:11 AM, Amy Stephen <amyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

Leslie published in her announcement that we will feature stories on
runner up students, so, we are moving forward. And, I am cool with
that. Featuring stories on these kids is an excellent idea!

Honestly, if you'd prefer not to publish it, you need not.  I changed the wording to "look into" publishing stories, so if you don't want to you don't need to.

I agree with Angie's point on continuing to work as a united front as
it relates to the Google end of things. So, I suggest we talk about
these ideas within our own projects about this and work out the
details, together, as a group.

To make this work for our contestants, I think it will be helpful to
feature the work of more than three to five people. Out of the 75
participants we had, there is easily a solid list of up to 15 people
we would certainly like to honor.

Maybe talk about 5 in the copy you send to me and then include a link to a longer forum/blog post?  I'm just concious about keeping our blogs concise - it's Google style.

Maybe this could be done by allowing one Google Blog per project? To
keep it even we could have a word limit for each project team - but
within those parameters, allow each project some latitude to operate?

This has been an exceptional group because share common goals and
approaches, and that includes valuing different perspectives and
accomodating those ideas. It has been an honor to participate with
you.

Ditto!  :)

[Amy Stephen]

Thanks Leslie! We'll certainly provide something.

[Angela Byron]

I hate to sound unkind, but not winning (and not placing) is a fact of life.  There's a part of me that thinks giving kudos to people who really shined is worth some hurt feelings.  Isn't being a part of participation in open source, even in the healthiest and gentlest community, growing a thicker skin?

I actually went the more direct way and just asked a couple of our students about this, and here's what they had to say (cleaned up IRC log coming up -- I blanked the name of one student because I couldn't find them tonight to get their permission to their statements as part of the log):

[12:41am] webchick: Ok so NOW I have a question since there are a bunch of students in the room.          
[12:42am] webchick: Google has said that if we send them runner up information, they'll go ahead and publish that as well.
[12:42am] webchick: We have three options:
[12:42am] webchick: a) Tell Google who our runner ups were (I bet you can guess  ;)) and let them post an announcement about it
[12:43am] cwgordon7: webchick: it all depends if I'm on the runner up list, lol
[12:43am] X: hehe
[12:43am] webchick: b) Tell Google who our runner ups were, but they keep it secret but send you guys some extra swag to say "you rock"
[12:43am] webchick: c) Just leave it as the single winner, as the contest was originally laid out.
[12:43am] cwgordon7: I'd say go with a)
[12:43am] webchick: My concern is that someone who both didn't win AND is not in the runner-up list may feel really discouraged if we do a) (and probably also b)).
[12:44am] webchick: But yet you guys are all totally awesome and deserve recognition.
[12:44am] X: considering you had a tie...it would seem that a would make some sense....
[12:44am] webchick: Yeah, I think so too.
[12:44am] cwgordon7: if i recall the statistics correctly, there were about 5 people in the 9+ range, next down at 6.
[12:44am] webchick: Ok. I'll send our blurbs for the rest of our winners off to Leslie.
[12:44am] cwgordon7: webchick: and don't say runner ups. Say almost-as-awesome-winners
[12:45am] webchick: Yeah, seriously.
[12:45am] webchick: Or "equally as awesome winners" :D
[12:45am] X: indeed

So, with that in mind, I sent off a list of Drupal's equally as awesome winners to Leslie just now. :)

-Angie

[Leslie Hawthorn]

Lovely. It's a conversation others might want to consider having.

Cheers,
LH

--
Leslie Hawthorn
Program Manager - Open Source
Google Inc.

http://code.google.com/opensource/

I blog here:

http://googlesummerofcode.blogspot.com -
http://google-opensource.blogspot.com -
http://www.hawthornlandings.org