Re: Is John McCain a "natural born" American Citizen? <= or ineligible like Herr. Aahh-nold Schwartzinigger
Reality_CheckŠ
> Deadrat wrote:
>> fargo116 <farg...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>> On Aug 24, 5:42 pm, Deadrat <a...@b.com> wrote:
>>>> fargo116 <fargo...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>>> news:ac06b9c4-77e5-40a4-979a-
>>>> 19a682dc2...@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>>>>> On Aug 23, 10:41 pm, Don Gabacho <jpast...@nettaxi.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Aug 24, 12:27 am, richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> Interesting though, just before a national election, BOTH
>>>>>>> candidates for Presidency are rejected because neither is a
>>>>>>> natural born citizen? What happens then?
>>>>
>>>>>> Change America!
>>>>
>>>>> Then the Tooth Fairy shows up and has a Cage Match with Santa!
>>>>
>>>>> It's about as likely.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe. But plenty of people can still remember apartheid in the US.
>>>> That changed.
>>>
>>> Aparthied has nothing to do with it, Dead. They are both American
>>> citizens.
>>
>> I can't understand your statement. If I'm following the attributions
>> correctly, Don Gazpacho exclaimed "Change America!" To which you
>> replied that change is about as likely as the Tooth Fairy sparring
>> with Santa.
>>
>> That as may be. But in my lifetime I've seen US apartheid ('e'
>> before 'i' after 'h') dismantled. So change is possible.
>>
>> As to the original question, Obama is a citizen by the 14th Amendment
>> since he was born in a state, Hawaii. No one really knows for sure
>> what "natural born" means for Zonian-born citizens like McCain, who
>> were not born in a state. The Supreme Court would have to say.
>
> Washington D.C. isn't a "state" ... doesn't even get voting
> representation in Congress,
> neither does Puerto Rico, Guam or any other U$ Colonialist Occupied
> Territories.
>
> And what of births occurring at U$ Embassies overseas, or on U$ ships
> (military or merchant)
> that are outside of U$ waters ? McMurdo Base in Antarctica ? On U$
> aircraft outside of U$ airspace?
> On foreign aircraft inside U$ Airspace? What of pregnant women
> "specially rendered" from the U$ to overseas
> CIA torture chambers? Or babies born to foreign women who got "special
> rendition" from overseas
> to U$ soil for indefinite imprisonment? What of the "rape babies"
> born at overseas U$ military bases like Gitmo?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know ...
Blattus Slafaly
need 'night of the living dead' in the white house.
--
Blattus Slafaly ? 3 :) 7/8
Benj
> > And what of births occurring at U$ Embassies overseas, or on U$ ships
> > (military or merchant)
> > that are outside of U$ waters ? McMurdo Base in Antarctica ? On U$
> > aircraft outside of U$ airspace?
> > Inquiring minds want to know ...
I have heard that while the media constantly drones that McCain was
born in Panama, He was actually born on a ship outside of US waters at
the time. If it's true, I'm sure it's REALLY covered up well!
Benj
wrote:
> He looks more and more like a corpse every day doesn't he? We don't
> need 'night of the living dead' in the white house.
Yeah, Che lives, but...
Unfortunately, we don't need "Red Dawn" in the White House either!
Felix D.
"Blattus Slafaly" <boobooil...@roadrunner.com> wrote in message
news:0pCdnaivk56KPy_V...@giganews.com...
> He looks more and more like a corpse every day doesn't he? We don't
> need 'night of the living dead' in the white house.
>
Put Obama in there, and we'll have the "night of the brain dead"
Reality_CheckŠ
> Middle Class Warrior <eel...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:48b21d55$0$23202 $ec3e...@news.usenetmonster.com:
>
>> Reality_CheckŠ wrote:
>>> Deadrat wrote:
>>>> fargo116 <farg...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>>>> On Aug 24, 5:42 pm, Deadrat <a...@b.com> wrote:
>>>>>> fargo116 <fargo...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>>>>> news:ac06b9c4-77e5-40a4-979a-
>>>>>> 19a682dc2...@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 23, 10:41 pm, Don Gabacho <jpast...@nettaxi.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Aug 24, 12:27 am, richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Interesting though, just before a national election, BOTH
>>>>>>>>> candidates for Presidency are rejected because neither is a
>>>>>>>>> natural born citizen? What happens then?
>>
>> McCain was born in Panama on a military base leased from the
>> Panamanian government. Technically, he is not an American citizen.
>
> Wrong. The laws on the books at the time made McCain a US citizen.
> What's at issue is whether he's a "natural born citizen."
So would Cesarean births be "natural" ?
Or in-vitro ?
Reality_CheckŠ
> "Reality_CheckŠ" <Rea...@Check.it> wrote in
>> Deadrat wrote:
>>> fargo116 <farg...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>>> On Aug 24, 5:42 pm, Deadrat <a...@b.com> wrote:
>>>>> fargo116 <fargo...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>>>>>> On Aug 24, 12:27 am, richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Interesting though, just before a national election, BOTH
>>>>>>>> candidates for Presidency are rejected because neither is a
>>>>>>>> natural born citizen? What happens then?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Then the Tooth Fairy shows up and has a Cage Match with Santa!
>>>>>
>>>>>> It's about as likely.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe. But plenty of people can still remember apartheid in the
>>>>> US. That changed.
>>>>
>>>> Aparthied has nothing to do with it, Dead. They are both American
>>>> citizens.
>>>
>>> I can't understand your statement. If I'm following the
>>> attributions correctly, Don Gazpacho exclaimed "Change America!"
>>> To which you replied that change is about as likely as the Tooth
>>> Fairy sparring with Santa.
>>>
>>> That as may be. But in my lifetime I've seen US apartheid ('e'
>>> before 'i' after 'h') dismantled. So change is possible.
>>>
>>> As to the original question, Obama is a citizen by the 14th
>>> Amendment since he was born in a state, Hawaii. No one really
>>> knows for sure what "natural born" means for Zonian-born citizens
>>> like McCain, who were not born in a state. The Supreme Court would
>>> have to say.
>>
>> Washington D.C. isn't a "state" ... doesn't even get voting
>> representation in Congress,
>> neither does Puerto Rico, Guam or any other U$ Colonialist Occupied
>> Territories.
>>
>> (military or merchant)
>> that are outside of U$ waters ? McMurdo Base in Antarctica ? On U$
>> aircraft outside of U$ airspace?
>> "specially rendered" from the U$ to overseas
>> CIA torture chambers? Or babies born to foreign women who got
>> "special rendition" from overseas
>> to U$ soil for indefinite imprisonment? What of the "rape babies"
>> born at overseas U$ military bases like Gitmo?
>
>
> The key question about other areas is whether the territory is
> incorporated or not. All territory is also classified as organized or
> not, i.e., whether it has a US sanctioned government or not.
>
> There are no incorporated organized territories. The last one was
> Hawaii.
>
> There is one incorporated unorganized territory, a nature preserve
> that used to be part of the Territory of Hawaii.
>
> US coastal waters, US embassies, and US flagships in international
> waters (and presumably US aircaraft in international airspace), have
> the status of incorporated unorganized territory.
>
> All of these count for purposes of natural born citizenship.
>
> There are four unincorporated organized territories (Northern
> Marianas, Guam, Puerto Rico, and the US Virgin Islands). The Panama
> Canal Zone used to be one of these.
>
> There are about a dozen unincorporated unorganized territories, mostly
> small islands. Only one, American Samoa, is inhabited.
>
> Gitmo is a special case. It's leased, but in perpetuity, and from
> recent Supreme Court decisions, the US is sovereign there, unlike
> other military bases in foreign countries.
>
> No one really knows whether these count for purposes of NBC.
Interesting.
>
>> Inquiring minds want to know ...
>
> You? Inquiring? Bwahahahahahaha!
>
> Good one.
Occasionally there exists knowledge outside the realm of my
vast consciousness, call it unincorporated organized information,
which I seek to assimilate ...
BTW ... resistance is futile.
Dave
> the time.
Doesn't matter. He was born to two American citizens and is therefore
considered a natural born citizen, no matter where in the world the
birth took place.
Phred A'Neadel
"Reality_CheckŠ" <Rea...@Check.it> wrote in message
news:6hgho6F...@mid.individual.net...
Reality_CheckŠ
Bullshit.
US constitutional definition
The United States Constitution does not define the term "natural born
citizen"; however, it does confer on Congress the power: "To establish an
uniform Rule of Naturalization."
Section 1 of Article II of the Constitution contains the clause:
"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States,
at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the
Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who
shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen
Years a Resident within the United States."
Additionally, the 12th Amendment to the Constitution states that: "[N]o
person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be
eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States."
It is thought the origin of the natural-born citizen clause can be traced to
a letter of July 25, 1787 from John Jay to George Washington, presiding
officer of the Constitutional Convention. John Jay wrote: "Permit me to
hint, whether it would be wise and seasonable to provide a strong check to
the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national
Government; and to declare expressly that the Commander in Chief of the
American army shall not be given to nor devolve on, any but a natural born
Citizen." There was no debate, and this qualification for the office of the
Presidency was introduced by the drafting Committee of Eleven, and then
adopted without discussion by the Constitutional Convention.
The 2003 Equal Opportunity to Govern Amendment, a proposed amendment to the
US Constitution, would, if adopted, have removed the prohibition against
naturalized citizens holding the office of the President.
[edit] US presidential candidates born outside the US
"The constitutional wording has left doubts about whether those born on
foreign soil are on an equal footing with those whose birth occurred inside
the country's borders, and whether they have the same rights."[1] Though
every president and vice president to date (as of 2008) has either been a
citizen at the adoption of the Constitution, or else born in a U.S. state or
Washington D.C.[2], a number of presidential candidates have been born
elsewhere.[3]
Barry Goldwater, who ran as the Republican party nominee in 1964, was born
in Arizona while it was still a U.S. territory. Although Arizona was not a
state, it was a fully organized and incorporated territory of the United
States.[4]
George Romney, who ran for the Republican party nomination in 1968, was born
in Mexico to U.S. parents.
Romney's grandfather emigrated to Mexico in 1886 with his three wives and
children after Utah outlawed polygamy. Romney's parents retained their U.S.
citizenship and returned to the United States in 1912. Romney was 32 years
old when he arrived in Michigan.
John McCain, who ran for the Republican party nomination in 2000 and is the
presumptive Republican nominee in 2008, was born at the Coco Solo U.S.
military base in the Panama Canal Zone to U.S. parents.
Although the Panama Canal Zone was not considered to be part of the United
States,[5] federal law states that "Any person born in the Canal Zone on or
after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of
this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of
such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a
citizen of the United States".[6] The law that conferred this status took
effect on August 4, 1937, one year after John McCain was born - albeit with
retrospective effect, resulting in McCain being declared a U.S. citizen.[7]
However, the question as to whether or not he is a citizen from birth cannot
be answered by this law because (1) it took effect after his birth and (2)
it does not state that the person's citizenship was acquired at birth, only
that they are a citizen by means of the law's establishment (and, hence, at
the time the law takes effect). Indeed, the law in 1936 stated that all
persons born to US citizens outside the "limits and jurisdictions of the
United States" but the problem is that the Panama Canal Zone was within the
limits and jurisdictions of the United States. Thus, the status of Mr.
McCain remains unsettled.[8]
Harold Burton
<d47700d7-fbe0-4ee6...@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
Benj <bja...@iwaynet.net> wrote:
And irrelevant, but irrelevancies are what leftwits are all about.
Snicker.
Harold Burton
<f4dd39fb-ff32-4663...@n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
Dave <pat...@gmail.com> wrote:
Don't confuse leftwits with facts.
Reality_CheckŠ
> In article <243tk.38451$ZE5....@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>,
> Deadrat <a...@b.com> wrote:
>
>
>> The dead of Iraq lie in the ground because W won his elections.
>> Their children and granchildren will be paying off the debt he ran
>> up.
>
>
>
> Care for some cheese with that whine?
Typical Repugnikkkan coward's refrain.
Miguel A. González
Puerto Rico is hardly "occupied". They have freely chosen their
present "Free Associated State" or "Commonwealth" arrangement with the
U.S. Every so often they'll have aplebiscite with the choices of
Statehood, Status Quo, or Independence. So far they've kept choosing
to keep the status quo.
>>>
>>> And what of births occurring at U$ Embassies overseas, or on U$ ships
>>> (military or merchant)
>>> that are outside of U$ waters ? McMurdo Base in Antarctica ? On U$
>>> aircraft outside of U$ airspace?
>>> On foreign aircraft inside U$ Airspace?
>>> What of pregnant women
>>> "specially rendered" from the U$ to overseas
>>> CIA torture chambers?
cite
>>>Or babies born to foreign women who got
>>> "special rendition" from overseas
>>> to U$ soil for indefinite imprisonment?
cite
> What of the "rape babies"
>>> born at overseas U$ military bases like Gitmo?
cite
Just another anti-U.S. rant form unReality Check
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/how_can_panamanian-born_mccain_be_elected_president.html
A congressional act stated in 1790:
Congress: "And the children of citizens of the United States, that
may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States,
shall be considered as natural born citizens."
Reality_CheckŠ
LOL! ... is that how it works? Forcibly occupy a territory and subjugate
it's people
for 100 years or so ... then let them vote (locally, but NO representation
in D.C.)
and call it "free choice"
ROTFLMAO !!
Too bad that Congress can't define/redefine what the Constitutional
meaning of "natural born" is wrt the Office of President of the U$.