Question about religion and being gay
Pierre
now, and fortunately I didn't have much trouble dealing with it, I sort of
knew in the back of my head for about three years already, I just admitted
it to myself recently. But my question is this: I am a Christian, and
Christians mostly don't see being gay as normal, and actually see it as a
sin, which can be taken away if you ask God to. I know this doesn't/won't
work, and I try to tell myself that God does forgive me if being gay *is*
wrong (but I don't believe it is), but it does bother me sometimes, knowing
that a lot of people see it as wrong, and the Bible states on at leat two
places that I know of that it is wrong. Is there maybe someone that can help
me with this? Someone who is a Christian and has come to terms with being a
gay Christian? Thanks!
Pierre
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Kevin Burke
loving a person of the same gender is wrong. Nowhere.
That many Christians claim the references to pedestry (ancient Greek
custom of using young boys for sexual release) or fornication (defined
as sex for the sake of sexual pleasure outside a loving committed
relationship) refer to being gay is wrong.
Being gay is NOT a sin, neither is loving another person of the same
gender. You don't need forgiveness for being gay - God made you that
way. I don't really understand why God made some of us gay and others
str8 - but I do not see myself as a sinner or in any way worth less as a
human being because I am. The people who claim the Bible gives them the
right to hate gays are liars and frauds. While there are many of them,
that does not make them right.
You might search the web for PFLAG and the Metropolitan Community Church
for some references to gay friendly christian churches. There are some
out there. Don't let the haters tell you otherwise. Gay is no better
or worse than being str8 - its different. Different isn't bad - its
just not the same.
Zarah Walker
Do you WANT to be Christian? I mean, just because that's what your
parent(s) are, and that's what you grew up believing, doesn't mean that's
what YOU have to be. You didn't mention your age, but usually when someone
is "old enough" (or rather, mature enough) to come to terms with being gay
or bi, they're also old enough to decide for themselves which religion is
"right" for them.
Now, I'm not saying that you SHOULDN'T be Christian, just that maybe you
should look at other religions that aren't so anti-gay.
Good Luck
-Z
"Pierre" <lok...@mailandnews.com> wrote in message
news:2000102918...@redmire.net...
Eric Bohlman
> Hi, I'm a first time poster, I have known that I'm gay for about four months
> now, and fortunately I didn't have much trouble dealing with it, I sort of
> knew in the back of my head for about three years already, I just admitted
> it to myself recently. But my question is this: I am a Christian, and
> Christians mostly don't see being gay as normal, and actually see it as a
> sin, which can be taken away if you ask God to. I know this doesn't/won't
> work, and I try to tell myself that God does forgive me if being gay *is*
> wrong (but I don't believe it is), but it does bother me sometimes, knowing
> that a lot of people see it as wrong, and the Bible states on at leat two
> places that I know of that it is wrong. Is there maybe someone that can help
> me with this? Someone who is a Christian and has come to terms with being a
> gay Christian? Thanks!
May I suggest reading two books: _Stealing Jesus_ by Bruce Bawer and
_Reclaiming the Bible from Fundamentalism_ by John Shelby Spong? Both use
solid Biblical scholarship to show that the passages that many people
interpret as condemning homosexuality really mean something completely
different.
Susannah Tiller
>
> Hi, I'm a first time poster, I have known that I'm gay for about four months
> now, and fortunately I didn't have much trouble dealing with it, I sort of
> knew in the back of my head for about three years already, I just admitted
> it to myself recently. But my question is this: I am a Christian, and
> Christians mostly don't see being gay as normal, and actually see it as a
> sin, which can be taken away if you ask God to. I know this doesn't/won't
> work, and I try to tell myself that God does forgive me if being gay *is*
> wrong (but I don't believe it is), but it does bother me sometimes, knowing
> that a lot of people see it as wrong, and the Bible states on at leat two
> places that I know of that it is wrong. Is there maybe someone that can help
> me with this? Someone who is a Christian and has come to terms with being a
> gay Christian? Thanks!
Hi,
I'm queer and Catholic, so I know what you're going through!!
Okay. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the two places the Bible states
homosexuality are wrong are Leviticus, and one of St Paul's letters.
The chapter in Leviticus makes interesting reading. It's basically a
long, loooonnnng list of "do"s and "don't"s. (Mostly "don't"s). Many of
the bans had some practical relevance to the Israelites... there's a lot
of stuff on cleanliness and hygiene, which is very sensible, given the
conditions they were living in.
Some people believe that the prohibitions on homosexuality have been
mis-translated, and mis-translated over the centuries. They believed
that the verse actually refers to temple prostitution.
Then there's St Paul's letter. You have to remember that St Paul was a
fairly conservative person, fairly orthodox, and a recent convert from
Judaism. It's my opinion that a lot of his writings stem from that
conservative background.
I think the most important thing to remember about being gay and
Christian is that Jesus never actually said homosexuality was wrong.
However, he did say that the only two important commandments were "love
god" and "love your neighbour" - with no conditions that your had to be
straight, middle class, white, whatever!
The Church's current teachings on homosexuality did not come from Jesus.
Most of them were decided by bishops, priests and committees a few
hundred years after the fact.
HTH,
Susannah
--
Susannah dot Tiller @ studentmail dot newcastle dot edu dot au
"As a Psych major, I'm qualified to go 'Hmmmm'"
(Riley, "Hush", Buffy the Vampire Slayer)
MrModok
>Hi, I'm a first time poster, I have known that I'm gay for about four months
>now, and fortunately I didn't have much trouble dealing with it, I sort of
>knew in the back of my head for about three years already, I just admitted
>it to myself recently. But my question is this: I am a Christian, and
>Christians mostly don't see being gay as normal, and actually see it as a
>sin, which can be taken away if you ask God to. I know this doesn't/won't
>work, and I try to tell myself that God does forgive me if being gay *is*
>wrong (but I don't believe it is), but it does bother me sometimes, knowing
>that a lot of people see it as wrong, and the Bible states on at leat two
>places that I know of that it is wrong. Is there maybe someone that can help
>me with this? Someone who is a Christian and has come to terms with being a
>gay Christian? Thanks!
>
>Pierre
As one Christian to another, think of it this way. The main factor for
acheiving salvation is by acknowledging Christ as your Savior. That's it.
Unless you are Catholic, we don't become saved by our works. We're saved
through our faith.
There was no concept of "being gay" when the Bible was written. It's a
relatively new concept. The various sexual acts existed obviously, but not the
concept of either sexual orientation or sexual identity.
At times over the past 2000 years, different communities and cultures have
acknowledged same-sex relationships. Check out John Boswell's "Same-Sex Unions
in Premodern Europe". It tells about different ceremonies performed by the
Catholic Church between the 4th and 14th centuries to join men together. At
least one pair of "coupled" men were recognized by the Catholic Church as
saints (Saints Sergei and Bacchus) and are always depicted together in
paintings with joined halos.
You might want to check out some gay Christian churches or gay-friendly
churches (such as the United Church of Christ, MCC, Unitarians, or the
Quakers). Bare in mind that whether a specific congregation in any of these
denominations are gay-affirming or not might depend on where they're located.
Ultimately, you need to figure out what it means to be a gay man and a gay
Christian. For me, that meant finding someone with similar faith and values,
staying monogamous, and staying active with a local church community. We've
been wed at our church and plan to be foster parents within the year (our
license should be finally completed later this month).
Some gay people live celebate lives. Some people try to change their sexual
orientation privately or through ex-gay programs. Other gay people give up
completely. And others live their lives, hoping for the best. Funny thing is,
none of us will know for sure which way is successful until we're dead.
I'm 28 going on 29. I occasionally have doubts and will most likely continue
to experience gaps of faith in the future. But keep this in mind, most people
(regardless of their sexual orientation) suffer from doubt and re-examination.
It's part of being a person of faith. Some people lose their faith and never
come back. Some people walk away, only to return to their faith with much
stronger convictions.
Unfortunately, society and the Christian community places much greater emphasis
on gay peoples' faith and salvation than they generally do with society as a
whole. No matter what we do as a gay person, no matter how perfect we try to
be, we will never be Christian enough in some people's eyes. You can't do
anything about that. You just need to focus on your own faith.
-Citrus Lad's pal, Jon Trouten
Jon Seymour
wrote:
>Hi, I'm a first time poster, I have known that I'm gay for about four months
>now, and fortunately I didn't have much trouble dealing with it, I sort of
>knew in the back of my head for about three years already, I just admitted
>it to myself recently. But my question is this: I am a Christian, and
>Christians mostly don't see being gay as normal, and actually see it as a
>sin, which can be taken away if you ask God to. I know this doesn't/won't
>work, and I try to tell myself that God does forgive me if being gay *is*
>wrong (but I don't believe it is), but it does bother me sometimes, knowing
>that a lot of people see it as wrong, and the Bible states on at leat two
>places that I know of that it is wrong. Is there maybe someone that can help
>me with this? Someone who is a Christian and has come to terms with being a
>gay Christian? Thanks!
Not being a Christian, I can't really help with with that side of
things. I have always found religion too confining, too condemning,
and has way too much reliance on ancient morals when society has
changed so much in 2000 years. Not to mention that so many questions
go unanswered and so little has ever been shown to be more than a
beefed-up story. But anyway, if you really don't believe being gay is
wrong, then you shouldn't let everyone else place that in doubt.
Okay, let's look at this from a religious perspective, or at least a
theoretical one: Why would God make you gay when he thinks it's a
sin? Wouldn't that mean that God not only promotes sin, but forces
people into it? Maybe that makes sense to those people that say it's
wrong, but if they believe that it's wrong, they are forced into
claiming being gay is a choice. Whatever the cause, it's not a
choice. Take what you want from that, but it seems to me that maybe
we're just dealing with very outdated ideas of right and wrong.
JMHO,
Jon
Simon Moore
that god will accept everyone, and forgive them. I fthat is the case, he
will accept gays, as they are normal, just don;t feel attracted to the
opposite sex. Don;t worry about it.
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Pierre <lok...@mailandnews.com> wrote in message
news:2000102918...@redmire.net...
cris
http://www.truluck.com/
http://www.whosoever.org/
peace
cris
On Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:35:07 CST, "Pierre" <lok...@mailandnews.com>
wrote:
>Hi, I'm a first time poster, I have known that I'm gay for about four months
Susannah Tiller
>
> Well, I'm not a Christian, never have been, and never will be, but....
>
> Do you WANT to be Christian? I mean, just because that's what your
> parent(s) are, and that's what you grew up believing, doesn't mean that's
> what YOU have to be. You didn't mention your age, but usually when someone
> is "old enough" (or rather, mature enough) to come to terms with being gay
> or bi, they're also old enough to decide for themselves which religion is
> "right" for them.
>
> Now, I'm not saying that you SHOULDN'T be Christian, just that maybe you
> should look at other religions that aren't so anti-gay.
>
Sometimes that's easier said than done. If you've been brought up
Christian (especially one of the more conservative denominations), it's
very, very hard to let go of their teachings.
And maybe he *does* want to be Christian. There's a lot of people out
there who want to stay within the Christian church, even though they may
disagree on some of its teachings. It's not as easy as it sounds to
'religion shop'.
(I'm a lapsed Catholic, so I speak from experience here!)
Susannah
--
Susannah dot Tiller @ studentmail dot newcastle dot edu dot au
"As a Psych major, I'm qualified to go 'Hmmmm'"
(Riley, "Hush", Buffy the Vampire Slayer)
--
Michael Drayton
: But my question is this: I am a Christian, and
: Christians mostly don't see being gay as normal, and actually see it as a
: sin, which can be taken away if you ask God to.
: Is there maybe someone that can help
: me with this? Someone who is a Christian and has come to terms with being a
: gay Christian? Thanks!
Most of the largest Protestant denominations have individual
congregations which have resolved to be gay-affirming. Some of
these are:
"Open and Affirming" congregations of the United Church of Christ
(UCC - over 300 churches, www.coalition.simplenet.com/ona )
"More Light" congregtions of the Presbyterian Church
(100 churches, www.mlp.org/ )
"Reconciling Congregations" of the United Methodist Church
(164 www.rcp.org/ )
"Welcoming Congregations" of the Episcopal Church (over 300
churches -- www.members.aol.com/TheOasisNJ/welcome1.htm )
"Welcoming Congregations" of Unitarian Universalists (the UU's
derive from Christan roots but today only a minority would
call themselves Christian, but UU churches aim to accept
a wide range of beliefs. I'm a Unitarian Universalist, that's
why I have so much to say about it! -- 267 congregations,
www.uua.org/obgltc/ )
So far, that equals well over 1100 churches.
If you do a web search for these phrases you'll probably find
more information and maybe a listing for a church in your area.
Lutherans (ELCA) also include congregations which have made
similar decisions which group together as "Lutherans Concerned",
and American Baptists call themselves "Welcoming and Affirming
Baptists."
Often these congregations have worked through a program of
Bible study and discussion to understand the roots of
their beliefs about same-sex love and sexuality, and have
come to the understanding that it's perfectly compatible
with Christian belief.
Good luck figuring this out. I hope you can see that many
others have wrestled with this seeming contradiction and are
working together to resolve it. Just remember that there is
more than one version of Christianity out there, and that
lots and lots of Christians are figuring out that Jesus'
message of love will overcome the exclusion and judgement
that so many of us have suffered under.
--
Mike Drayton
mdra...@sonic.net
____________Approved by: <mlg...@youth.org> Mary L. Gray___________
To reach the moderators, email to <ssygl...@ssyglb.redmire.net>
To reach the FAQ, check out <http://www.youth.org/ssyglb>
___________________________________________________________________
Pierre
Firstly, I think I should thank you guys for all your replies, it really did
help, there was of course that one which I kind of didn't like, but that's
OK, I guess I can't get only good responses! But secondly, to answer that
post...
(QUOTE):
>Zarah Walker wrote:
> Do you WANT to be Christian? I mean, just because that's what your
> parent(s) are, and that's what you grew up believing, doesn't mean
that's
> what YOU have to be. You didn't mention your age, but usually when
someone
> is "old enough" (or rather, mature enough) to come to terms with being
gay
> or bi, they're also old enough to decide for themselves which religion
is
> "right" for them.
>
> Now, I'm not saying that you SHOULDN'T be Christian, just that maybe
you
> should look at other religions that aren't so anti-gay.
I think that when Susannah answered you, she basically said it, I WANT to be
a
Christian. I don't want to get too technical and religious here, because it
might offend some people, but I do stand for the things a Christian should
stand for, it's just this one aspect of the Bible which I didn't agree with,
and which I now understand better. I hope you don't think I'm trying to
start a fight here, I'm just trying to explain that just moving from
religion to religion isn't really possible when you actually believe in this
religion, and you're not just going because you want to belong to some kind
of religion.
Pierre
----- Original Message -----
From: Pierre <lok...@mailandnews.com>
Newsgroups: soc.support.youth.gay-lesbian-bi
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 9:35 PM
Subject: Question about religion and being gay
> Hi, I'm a first time poster, I have known that I'm gay for about four
months
> now, and fortunately I didn't have much trouble dealing with it, I sort of
> knew in the back of my head for about three years already, I just admitted
> it to myself recently. But my question is this: I am a Christian, and
> Christians mostly don't see being gay as normal, and actually see it as a
> sin, which can be taken away if you ask God to. I know this doesn't/won't
> work, and I try to tell myself that God does forgive me if being gay *is*
> wrong (but I don't believe it is), but it does bother me sometimes,
knowing
> that a lot of people see it as wrong, and the Bible states on at leat two
> places that I know of that it is wrong. Is there maybe someone that can
help
> me with this? Someone who is a Christian and has come to terms with being
a
> gay Christian? Thanks!
>
> Pierre
>
>
>
____________Approved by: <mlg...@youth.org> Mary L. Gray___________
"Mariani \"Darkpand\" Dario"
[Cut]
> places that I know of that it is wrong. Is there maybe someone that can help
> me with this? Someone who is a Christian and has come to terms with being a
> gay Christian? Thanks!
I saw in some sites that the FOUR (and not two) bible passages that
condemn homosexuality are mistranslated, and in the true version they
don't condemn it.
Try to see these links (note to the moderator: verify those links before
approval of this post... at the moment that i'm writing, i'm not
connected to internet, so i can't verify them.):
http://www.bettybowers.com/bibleinterpretation.html
http://www.richonthenet.com/glf/bible.html
http://www.truluck.com/
Hope this helps,
--
Mariani "Darkpand" Dario dark...@libero.it
"L'uomo e' tanto meno se stesso quanto piu' parla in persona propria:
dategli una maschera e vi dira' la verita'" --Oscar Wilde
Lord Lazorous
I figure that an all-knowing, all-loving, all-creating God wouldnt make
something that is in direct contradiction to the very idelistics and values
he claims to be: all-loving more than anything tells me that this God, or
single creator loves me and made me. So in believing that this God isnt a
liar (cause he says he loves all) means that you are also believing that
this God loves even the gay side of you.
Just for my 2 cents of it- I made my own God, he dosent care the 'bad'
things about me that other 'Gods' lable.
-LazzyGIRLTRAPPEDINAboySBODY
"Pierre" <lok...@mailandnews.com> wrote in message
news:2000102918...@redmire.net...
GraveDigger
religeon that fits your needs. I mean, you can hear other ideas, and see if it
makes sense but you either believe in something or you don't.
I mean, you believe what you believe, not what everyone else believes. I mean,
just because some Christians are anti-gay doens't mean you have to be too.
Their beliefs doesn't make God bad. And... I'll shut up now.
GD
DarkSphinx
>religeon that fits your needs. I mean, you can hear other ideas, and see
if it
>makes sense but you either believe in something or you don't.
I don't know about that. One of the biggest problems with religion (pretty
much all of them) is that often when people raise their kids in one, the
kids go along with those beliefs as a matter of course. I know I did at
first. Personally, I went out searching and figured out my own beliefs, but
a lot of people never do. Most of the people I know have no idea what they
believe, only what they've been told to. And they just go along with it, or
never think about it at all. I went into my religious search knowing what I
wanted to find in one, and aware of the fact that no matter what religion I
eventually chose, I was going to have to customize it quite a bit. Somewhere
I got it into my head that "right and wrong" are subjective and that no
religion is likely to be quite right for anyone. We're all very different
and diverse. In my opinion, we all need to customize our religions based on
what is right and wrong for us personally, and what we believe in. How else
can it be right for you if you don't make it "to fit your needs"? We've all
got different needs!
>I mean, you believe what you believe, not what everyone else believes. I
mean,
>just because some Christians are anti-gay doens't mean you have to be too.
>Their beliefs doesn't make God bad. And... I'll shut up now.
True. People try to speak for their Gods. "God says this" and "God thinks
that". If Gods are so powerful, they can certainly speak for themselves, and
they don't need people to tell them what they think. Whatever God you
believe in, it's basically useless to listen to other people who say they
know what He/She thinks, because it's BS. Most people don't know what their
dog thinks, much less anything more evolved than that. I just don't get it.
If God is in your heart, why don't people go with what their heart tells
them instead of what Billy Graham does? I mean, isn't the middleman usually
the one who's completely unnecessary, but finds a way to gain something that
way? If you know in your heart it's okay to be Gay, it is. Simple simple. In
theory, anyway. :)
______________________SIGNATURE BEGINS HERE 玷柯______________________
I am 1013 of Goth. You will be assimilated. Then
you will watch my TV show, the X-Files.
*likes obscure references to Goth culture and X-Files trivia*
Website:
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http://pagan.drak.net/syeira
Sign Language, Deafness, Bisexuality,
Paganism, Cemetery Photography, poetry,
writings, Goth, the Goddess Nephthys,
Social Anxiety Disorder, and other
good things.
"Hot Lesbian Witches! Think about it! It's f****** genius!" - Charlie Sheen,
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"Where are the doghouses who buried Persephone at the foot of the willow
mirage?" - The Bran Wench.
Say, you ever notice how my signature is longer than the body of my e-mail?
ARF!
Rick Reuling
I came upon an interesting site, if I recall correctly someone had
previously posted the link here. I offer it up as another perspective. The
author, one Faris Malik, presents a well researched and properly referenced
assertion that the typical verses offered up as Biblical condemnation of
homosexuality do not refer to the same group of people that we today call
gay or lesbian. Rather, the author's research leads him to believe that
what we call gay men today were in fact called "natural eunuchs" in the
ancient world. It's rather intriguing and worth reading, even for those
that don't prescribe to a particular religious view. It brings together
some corroborating details from a historical standpoint, in much the same
way that one uses the context of their times and the other writings of men
like Thomas Jefferson to elucidate the motivations behind the U.S.
Constitution.
Food for thought!
http://www.well.com/user/aquarius/rome.htm
Regards,
rick
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Rick Reuling - MCSE, MCT rreu...@usa.net
"Now I've seen some old friends sort of die,
or just turn into whatever must have been inside them..."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"Pierre" <lok...@mailandnews.com> wrote in message
news:2000102918...@redmire.net...
GraveDigger
DarkSphinx wrote:
> >Not to start anything here, but it does seem a bit weird to me to choose a
> >religeon that fits your needs. I mean, you can hear other ideas, and see
> if it
> >makes sense but you either believe in something or you don't.
>
> I don't know about that. One of the biggest problems with religion (pretty
> much all of them) is that often when people raise their kids in one, the
> kids go along with those beliefs as a matter of course. I know I did at
> first. Personally, I went out searching and figured out my own beliefs, but
> a lot of people never do. Most of the people I know have no idea what they
> believe, only what they've been told to. And they just go along with it, or
> never think about it at all. I went into my religious search knowing what I
> wanted to find in one, and aware of the fact that no matter what religion I
> eventually chose, I was going to have to customize it quite a bit. Somewhere
> I got it into my head that "right and wrong" are subjective and that no
> religion is likely to be quite right for anyone. We're all very different
> and diverse. In my opinion, we all need to customize our religions based on
> what is right and wrong for us personally, and what we believe in. How else
> can it be right for you if you don't make it "to fit your needs"? We've all
> got different needs!
Well, I mostly meant if you don't actually believe in that god in the first
place, then what's the point of joining that religeon. I mean, if you like the
people in that religeon, then be friends with them. Don't force yourself to
believe in that god, because if you don't just believe then it's kinda pointless
to begin with.
I agree that not enough people explore their spirituality enough before going
into a religeon. Personally, I didn't do what I was brought up to do. I didn't
believe in God in grade school up to junior high, really. I mean, I sorta
thought about it, kinda gave into the custom evry now and then, but never really
believed. It wasn't until high school that I started to believe. It was just
that one day I talked and I realized someone was listening. Not really the
"concrete" proof people feel they need all the time , but that's just how it
worked for me. Also, there's just been some events in my life that just totally
seemed cosmic, but I won't get into that.
GD
Jon Seymour
<g_di...@prairie.lakes.com> wrote:
>
>
>DarkSphinx wrote:
>
>> >Not to start anything here, but it does seem a bit weird to me to choose a
>> >religeon that fits your needs. I mean, you can hear other ideas, and see
>> if it
>> >makes sense but you either believe in something or you don't.
>>
>> I don't know about that. One of the biggest problems with religion (pretty
>> much all of them) is that often when people raise their kids in one, the
>> kids go along with those beliefs as a matter of course. I know I did at
>> first. Personally, I went out searching and figured out my own beliefs, but
>> a lot of people never do. Most of the people I know have no idea what they
>> believe, only what they've been told to. And they just go along with it, or
>> never think about it at all. I went into my religious search knowing what I
>> wanted to find in one, and aware of the fact that no matter what religion I
>> eventually chose, I was going to have to customize it quite a bit. Somewhere
>> I got it into my head that "right and wrong" are subjective and that no
>> religion is likely to be quite right for anyone. We're all very different
>> and diverse. In my opinion, we all need to customize our religions based on
>> what is right and wrong for us personally, and what we believe in. How else
>> can it be right for you if you don't make it "to fit your needs"? We've all
>> got different needs!
>
>Well, I mostly meant if you don't actually believe in that god in the first
>place, then what's the point of joining that religeon. I mean, if you like the
>people in that religeon, then be friends with them. Don't force yourself to
>believe in that god, because if you don't just believe then it's kinda pointless
>to begin with.
I tend to think that believing in something based on faith is kinda
pointless too... There's nothing special about faith, and is certainly
not a virtue, I think. I mean, faith allows someone to believe in
anything they want to and surprise, 99% of the time those particular
beliefs happen to make them feel all gooey and warm inside. In
reality, that's not how life is. But oh well, I'll probably be
disagreed with on this, but that's cool.
>I agree that not enough people explore their spirituality enough before going
>into a religeon. Personally, I didn't do what I was brought up to do. I didn't
>believe in God in grade school up to junior high, really. I mean, I sorta
>thought about it, kinda gave into the custom evry now and then, but never really
>believed. It wasn't until high school that I started to believe. It was just
>that one day I talked and I realized someone was listening. Not really the
>"concrete" proof people feel they need all the time , but that's just how it
>worked for me. Also, there's just been some events in my life that just totally
>seemed cosmic, but I won't get into that.
I think that if you're going to believe, you should have a reason.
Believing because it makes you feel better, believing because of
promises, believing because your parents or friends do, or believing
because you're scared shouldn't be the basis of something this
important. Unfortunately, having someone listening falls under
believing because it makes one feel better. I'm not trying to knock
yours or anyone else's beliefs, I just think that too many people take
things way too lightly and just start believing in things for whatever
little reason comes along. Or whatever event they choose to see as a
reason. With religion, very very little is based on facts. It's
based on what we want.
JMHO,
Jon
J9D9
on is in
leviticus old testemate in the bible.
Hope I helped
J9...@aol.com
Liam Slater
J9D9 <j9...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:2000111418...@redmire.net...
> a friend told me at school that all the stuff about sex, homosexuality and
so
> on is in
> leviticus old testemate in the bible.
> Hope I helped
Leviticus says it's an abomination, Leviticus also says that about wearing
clothes of more than one type of thread so polycotton is a big no-no.
--
Liam Slater
chaoar...@MailOps.Com
ICQ 63431409
Vice-head of the AFSH - Elite Council of Pointless
Creator of AGX and self appointed maker - of the heralded cheese toasties
sxu99ajc
> clothes of more than one type of thread so polycotton is a big no-no.
>
Can you imagine how amazingly ironic it would be if a supposed saint of this
age went to hell for wearing a cardigan? Im sure the Pope would poissibly
see the funny side...
[In World News 'Pope Bans Jumper Convention!']
Joshua L. Ferris
it has a list of some of the religious "abominations" there is also a
chatroom, that is try to get populated. Maybe some people can use it to
just go there and chat. I know how hard this is. I am 19 and just started
coming to terms with my true self.
"sxu99ajc" <sxu9...@reading.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:2000112716...@redmire.net...
> > Leviticus says it's an abomination, Leviticus also says that about
wearing
> > clothes of more than one type of thread so polycotton is a big no-no.
> >
>
> Can you imagine how amazingly ironic it would be if a supposed saint of
this
> age went to hell for wearing a cardigan? Im sure the Pope would poissibly
> see the funny side...
>
> [In World News 'Pope Bans Jumper Convention!']
>
>